I honestly hate expansions. Even ones as massive as this. NOone wants to go back grinding. They also forced a significantl changed to the guild dynamics ...large guild to small guild. All in all, I opayed it, made 70, had some good times, but it was the reason I was eventually able to kick WoW for good.
I honestly hate expansions. Even ones as massive as this. NOone wants to go back grinding. They also forced a significantl changed to the guild dynamics ...large guild to small guild. All in all, I opayed it, made 70, had some good times, but it was the reason I was eventually able to kick WoW for good. Torrential
What I mean about the pally to DK thing was, if he "became" the DK then I would still be playing him. If he "unlocks" the DK, I bench him and am now playing the DK instead. My pally was almost a 375 miner and almost 350 engineer, if I got another alt, admittedly a cool Hero Class alt, he would have no profession skill at all. I would think that a DK with vast dark necromantic powers would be even cooler if he also had... Bombs.
I also used an example of a pally since that was my main alliance toon, from what I read anyone of any class can unlock the DK. Hopefully as time passes and we get more official details, how the DK works will become clearer.
Increasing the cap was terrible IMO without any lower level content. Expansions should contain content for every bracket of leveling. Not just solely 1-20 and 60+ content. I've thought about resubbing to WOW lately and starting fresh again, but then I ask myself why, I was bored with the 1-60 content before TBC was even released.
Ask for a portal in a major city and you can begin questing in Outland at like 56.
So there's only 20-56 - which you can be 'bored of'. Why don't you just play with your high level char to see Outland, since TBC improves upon WoW in almost every conceivable way.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I was happy they raised the lvl cap to 70, it made all the lvl 60 content worthless and it broke WoW's hold over me. I love it when games ruin their core system, and completely turns off tons of people.
Ask for a portal in a major city and you can begin questing in Outland at like 56. So there's only 20-56 - which you can be 'bored of'. Why don't you just play with your high level char to see Outland, since TBC improves upon WoW in almost every conceivable way.
Why? Because my 70 rogue has two options, PVP grind or PVE/Raid grind, neither of which appeal to me anymore. PVP grind, remember when world PVP used to be fun, before honor, before arenas? I sure do, numbers (points) and rewards ruined PVP for me. Raiding, no thanks, I dont need someone dictating how and when I enjoy myself. If I want a second job I'll fill out an application at a 7-11.
Well reading this thread so far only shows me one thing, alot of you are burned out. Raiding will never be as much fun as it was at level 60 because you were more new to that aspect of the game, and it was new to you, and even though now you are 10 levels higher and raiding someting different that initial fun is somewhat lost. I used to raid back at level 60 and now i just pvp or do some heroics and such, it just doesnt appeal to me anymore.
I do like the idea of increasing level cap however, and this is why. Lets say the cap was 60, you did all bwl mc nax etc, what else could they possibly add to make you feel like there was new content? More instances? More gear? If you had Nax on farm you had some badass gear, how much better gear could they possibly add without making the game more unbalanced against players who are casual?
Increasing the level just opens up many doors, like TBC did, added more instances, and now you can level to 70 and have a better range of instances to do, rather than having to hit 60 to do all the good instances. They implemented much better loot rewards from the quests in Outlands. This also made room for more talents being added to your class and 10 more skill points you can use to go for hybrid builds, and when WOTLK comes out it will do the same. New abilities, dungeons and whatever else. Some new stuff but pretty much what most players enjoy.
The one thing that i dont like about TBC was the Arenas, they are just nut fun, at least for me. Too much of a turtle I think, and people run them all day because the gear that you get from rewards is soo good, unfortunately I dont care how good the gear is, I wont grind it if I am not having fun.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC -Playing WoW -Retired- SWG -Retired- EVE -Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled) - 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
Well reading this thread so far only shows me one thing, alot of you are burned out. Raiding will never be as much fun as it was at level 60 because you were more new to that aspect of the game, and it was new to you, and even though now you are 10 levels higher and raiding someting different that initial fun is somewhat lost. I used to raid back at level 60 and now i just pvp or do some heroics and such, it just doesnt appeal to me anymore.
I tend to agree, because I actually believe that raiding in BC is a lot more fun than it was prior to BC. 40 man raids were a nightmare. Trying to get that many people organized, on time, ready to go with pots and whatever was needed was a real pain. But Karazhan, which I'm sure some of you hardcore raiders don't even consider raiding, is a blast. 10 People is a good number to raid with as you can easily keep up with everyone and make sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to. I remember in the 40 mans that some people used to just kinda hang back and let the other 39 or so take care of things and then they would reap the rewards. It's a lot harder to do that in a 10 man raid group and you'll get called out if you're not pulling your weight. Plus the chances of actually winning an item are much better in a 10 person raid group so people don't tend to get frustrated with going and not getting anything so loot distribution seems to be less of a problem as well and people are more willing to pass for someone else and you don't have to resort to things like the DKP system which itself is a nightmare to keep up with.
I don't think you can really call the expansion a mistake, as at the time it was estimated that 90% of players were going to upgrade with 75% in the first 10 days of release (how that actually went i don't know) So when would it have been a good idea to raise the level cap??? Would you be happy only playing to L60 and having the same content for another year, two, five? How many people do you think would leave the game if there was no new content? Yes, they could have added more and more L60 raids and dungeons, but they would just be re-hashes of the existing stuff so it makes no sense. The only way for any MMO to survive is to introduce new content and Blizzard hardley pumps them out at a rate of knots like other MMO's. The first expansion was over two years after release (Jan 2007) and the next expansion is not expected for at least another 18 months after that (talk of Aug 2008 at the moment), which i think is more than enough time for existing players to have tasted most or all of the content. Yes, what was the ultimate kit will fade into history as new stuff comes along, but that is the way of things in MMO's and real life.
i have to agree with this person. all games experience a decline in subscriptions after they have been out for a while. wow is no exception. it would have been just plain stupid to not introduce an expansion to keep the players happy. also i believe the majority of players wanted a lvl increase. so i dont think blizzard made a mistake at all
wow is dead in pve go to any city and you ll see what i mean they are in arena or at end game content everything else is dead or close to so unless they get cool looking item in the pre-burning crusade(cause lets face it cooll looking item is nice to get)or for that fact burning crusade it will continue to fade to the merit of guild wars witch by the way has never been so full everywhere.
i wish they would have put new abilities in drops (incinerate, victory rush). Made heroic versions of current 5 mans (with no rep required to enter) to offer a sidegrade of gear to preBC raids (mc-naxx gear) or you could get the quest rewards from hellfire to catch up to preBC raid gear even if you didn't gain any levels from the quests. Then just add more instances and zones and shit past that.
Outlands you can pretty much leave as is right now. You could even keep mobs hit points and attack power the same but make them all lvl 63 max to not screw with your chances to hit. Keep the level cap 60 and people would still do all that stuff for faction rewards. There would have to be something so that you couldn't get a flying mount the first day, like make a reputation for that or something. People would probably still hang out there all day long and do pvp and run instances at a minimally different rate. The only issue I think is determining what people are "too low" for certain dungeons, but don't you do that anyway right now for heroic pickup groups.
I don't know how well that would work, but I got sick of playing my warrior at lvl 64 and the only reason I got my warlock past lvl 65 was cause the retard guild I was in kept pestering me to get to 70. So I got there and quit like a month after.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
I think raising the level cap was a double edged sword. It gave hardcore raiding guilds the chance they wanted to test out the power of their top tier gear against more difficult foes, but it rendered content that people still had a desire to see utterly useless.
What amazes me is that Blizzard so quickly rendered tier 3 epic gear useless, having just recently introduced Naxxramus. Some people were just finally going beyond Blackwing Lair, and some were still exploring it. Blizzard had created a 40-man raid mindset, and many guilds grew in size and organiztion in order to accomodate that.
If anything, new raiding content should have been added to the existing content, much like Blackwing Lair was both an extension of Upper Blackrock Spire and Molten Core. If newer instances were going to be implemented, they should have been implemented in such a way that they didn't draw everyone away from the old world content. Gaining access to Outland should have been an achievement much like Hyjal, rather than an open floodgate for every player 58 and above. At least this would have kept level 60 players around a bit longer to aid their lower leveled guild mates.
Our guild fell to pieces thanks to 10-man KZ runs and smaller raid sizes. The "elite" quickly congregated together and left everyone else in the dust. I saw it coming before TBC even came out, and for once, I was not happy to be right.
What amazes me is that Blizzard so quickly rendered tier 3 epic gear useless, having just recently introduced Naxxramus. Some people were just finally going beyond Blackwing Lair, and some were still exploring it.
How did Tier 3 epic gear become useless because of BC? As someone already pointed out earlier Tier 3 epic gear was still fine for use well into BC. Not until Kara or so did Tier 3 become useless and how is that different from any other equipment? That's like saying Tier 3 made Tier 2 useless. Of course it did, but you didn't just go to the vendor and buy it, you still had to acqure it thru effort.
Now maybe you can say Tier 2 was useless pretty much as soon as you stepped foot in Outlands, but since there was already a Tier 3 it's not like Tier 2 was "top of the line" equipment. If you were wearing Tier 2 at the release of BC then it was a nice little bonus for you. Only the people who were wearing Tier 3 already were pissed because they had worked hard to get Tier 3 and here are all these people getting comparable gear just by doing quests. It didn't make their gear useless, just not 'leet' and that's what pissed them off.
I want to know your opinion was it a mistake that blizzard raised the level cap to 70 (and pretty soon 80)? For me i thought it was a mistake. The days of level 60 were uncomparable IMO. Doing Molten Core, Onyxia's Layer and Other end game instances was fun as hell. When blizzard came out with burning crusade a lot of people joined and a lot of people left. They did make a shit load of BC sales though and it was a good move on their part to up the cap. BC was fun and all, but it just doesnt have the instansity of the good ole level 60 days of MC. Blizzard says they have 9 million player, but you have to subract the players with more than one account, chinese farmers (they just dont count), and inactive accounts. World of Warcraft is on a slow dicline and when they come out with the new expansion they are going to see a lot of players quit. My brothers whole guild is quiting. In my opinion they need to start from scratch and make a whole different game and not the expansion shit. Being the makers of one of the most succesful MMO ever the game would definitly get a lot of players. Leave your opinion ~Radiator~
So you want to keep doing the same things over and over again? Raising the level cap and adding new items that make your old ones obsolete is the nature of expansions. I'm glad your leaving. Buh bye.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
The problem is with that expansion model, is if you spend all the time and effort to be at a Naxx level before BC all your leetness is wasted and as soon as the XP hits everyone is automatically at scrub level. Same will go for WotLK.
I hate to say it, Anarchy Online: Shadowlands was one of the best expansions I've ever seen in MMORPGdom, despite it being vastly incomplete at launch. Of course it turned my beloved AO Classic into EQ1.5 but for the dollar amount its was every bit worth it as expansions in general go. They increased the level cap to 220 AND provided content for 1-200. That is how expansions should be done. Sadly, post-SL expansions were nothing more then glorified content patches.
The problem is with that expansion model, is if you spend all the time and effort to be at a Naxx level before BC all your leetness is wasted and as soon as the XP hits everyone is automatically at scrub level. Same will go for WotLK. I hate to say it, Anarchy Online: Shadowlands was one of the best expansions I've ever seen in MMORPGdom, despite it being vastly incomplete at launch. Of course it turned my beloved AO Classic into EQ1.5 but for the dollar amount its was every bit worth it as expansions in general go. They increased the level cap to 220 AND provided content for 1-200. That is how expansions should be done. Sadly, post-SL expansions were nothing more then glorified content patches.
But if you hit TBC with Naxx gear it was not wasted, if any 1 started to replace their naxx gear with lvl 61 greens they know nothing about stats and itemization and should be shoot.. I entered TBC with T2 gear and did not replace a single bit untill the mid-late 60's I still had my T2 legs upto lvl 70. The only stuff you might replace at lvl 61+ is weapons and rings.
The gear gap between TBC > WotLK want be as big as WoW > TBC because the gear stats are not being adjusted, the TBC gear had added stamina (blizzard added this due to arenas), new resiliance stat and sockets.. with these in place when WotLK hits gear will much more a progression.
The problem is with that expansion model, is if you spend all the time and effort to be at a Naxx level before BC all your leetness is wasted and as soon as the XP hits everyone is automatically at scrub level. Same will go for WotLK. I hate to say it, Anarchy Online: Shadowlands was one of the best expansions I've ever seen in MMORPGdom, despite it being vastly incomplete at launch. Of course it turned my beloved AO Classic into EQ1.5 but for the dollar amount its was every bit worth it as expansions in general go. They increased the level cap to 220 AND provided content for 1-200. That is how expansions should be done. Sadly, post-SL expansions were nothing more then glorified content patches.
Thats a weak arguement since the most hardcore of players and guilds will reach max level sooner than everyone else and have access to the loot from high end dungeons/raids before the rest of us. It took someone just over 24 hours to go from 60 to 70 in BC, so it would take at most a month for those type of people to regain their "leetness" fairly quickly. If you want to keep spinning your wheels and doing the same content over and over again for the same loot then don't buy the expansion.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Raising the level cap was needed and a good move, but what wasn't was their new end game system. Rep grinds have become insane. I think pre BC the end game was great with a good variety and good progression. The should keep increasing the level cap, but they need to make the end game a little easier for new players to get up to speed.
I think you nailed it exactly. I have no problem with the new level cap, but the new endgame is pointless, especially since we all know the next expansion will make it obsolete. Raids and rep grinds and attunement quest chains just aren't fun enough for the rewards they give, especially when those rewards will be easily replaced once WotLK is released. I'll be able to get better rewards without giving up my life, so I've put my 70s on hold and I'm playing alts now.
Well I can't think of any other ways to implement a large amount of content to WoW without raising the level cap. Just adding more instances/ professions wouldn't work at all. I guess there could be other ways of adding the necessary content which would be more complex and more problematic than just raising the level cap (check DAoC, UO, EQ2 xpacks).
Maybe adding new talent trees to every class, or maybe adding a completely new unique system or something around that would be nice. I personally hate grinding/ raiding, so I'm not such a sympathizer with the level cap raise.
Ultima Online 98~04 Dark Age of Camelot 03~07 Final Fantasy XI 04~06 Guild Wars 05~08 World of Warcraft 04~05 Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
If buying an expansion is a waste because it makes whatever you did before obsolete, every game you ever played in your life was a waste of time. Did you take anything with you when you fnished spending 100s of dollars on all those arcade games? Nope. Did you take your Mario character with you when you finsihed Super mario Brothers? Could you bring Blanka with you when you stopped playing SF2 and began playing SF2 Turbo? No, you played, had fun and moved on.
If you're having FUN playing a videogame, your time is never wasted. You're being entertained. Case closed. If the game feels like a grind, you are certainly wasting your time. Your problem is you're not having fun. Blame yourself, not the game. You should know if its not fun in a few minutes, not MONTHS!!! If you ever feel like you're wasting your time playing a game, you're very bored and need a new hobby. For normal people, a hobby is about having fun, not wasting your time.
Comments
I honestly hate expansions. Even ones as massive as this. NOone wants to go back grinding. They also forced a significantl changed to the guild dynamics ...large guild to small guild. All in all, I opayed it, made 70, had some good times, but it was the reason I was eventually able to kick WoW for good.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
MMORPG is about grinding
What I mean about the pally to DK thing was, if he "became" the DK then I would still be playing him. If he "unlocks" the DK, I bench him and am now playing the DK instead. My pally was almost a 375 miner and almost 350 engineer, if I got another alt, admittedly a cool Hero Class alt, he would have no profession skill at all. I would think that a DK with vast dark necromantic powers would be even cooler if he also had... Bombs.
I also used an example of a pally since that was my main alliance toon, from what I read anyone of any class can unlock the DK. Hopefully as time passes and we get more official details, how the DK works will become clearer.
Increasing the cap was terrible IMO without any lower level content. Expansions should contain content for every bracket of leveling. Not just solely 1-20 and 60+ content. I've thought about resubbing to WOW lately and starting fresh again, but then I ask myself why, I was bored with the 1-60 content before TBC was even released.
Ask for a portal in a major city and you can begin questing in Outland at like 56.
So there's only 20-56 - which you can be 'bored of'. Why don't you just play with your high level char to see Outland, since TBC improves upon WoW in almost every conceivable way.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I was happy they raised the lvl cap to 70, it made all the lvl 60 content worthless and it broke WoW's hold over me. I love it when games ruin their core system, and completely turns off tons of people.
It's just as bad an idea to allow gear that is effectively level 100 to be worn by level 60.
Not upping the level caps but increasing the difficulty of PVE content is nothing but bloat and is just an "increased" level cap in disguise.
Increasing the level cap does NOT negate all previous content unless 1) you can solo to 70 and the 2) content in question is group/raid.
Make a game without raids and a game where you can't just solo to cap and then you solve the problem.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Why? Because my 70 rogue has two options, PVP grind or PVE/Raid grind, neither of which appeal to me anymore. PVP grind, remember when world PVP used to be fun, before honor, before arenas? I sure do, numbers (points) and rewards ruined PVP for me. Raiding, no thanks, I dont need someone dictating how and when I enjoy myself. If I want a second job I'll fill out an application at a 7-11.
Well reading this thread so far only shows me one thing, alot of you are burned out. Raiding will never be as much fun as it was at level 60 because you were more new to that aspect of the game, and it was new to you, and even though now you are 10 levels higher and raiding someting different that initial fun is somewhat lost. I used to raid back at level 60 and now i just pvp or do some heroics and such, it just doesnt appeal to me anymore.
I do like the idea of increasing level cap however, and this is why. Lets say the cap was 60, you did all bwl mc nax etc, what else could they possibly add to make you feel like there was new content? More instances? More gear? If you had Nax on farm you had some badass gear, how much better gear could they possibly add without making the game more unbalanced against players who are casual?
Increasing the level just opens up many doors, like TBC did, added more instances, and now you can level to 70 and have a better range of instances to do, rather than having to hit 60 to do all the good instances. They implemented much better loot rewards from the quests in Outlands. This also made room for more talents being added to your class and 10 more skill points you can use to go for hybrid builds, and when WOTLK comes out it will do the same. New abilities, dungeons and whatever else. Some new stuff but pretty much what most players enjoy.
The one thing that i dont like about TBC was the Arenas, they are just nut fun, at least for me. Too much of a turtle I think, and people run them all day because the gear that you get from rewards is soo good, unfortunately I dont care how good the gear is, I wont grind it if I am not having fun.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC
-Playing WoW
-Retired- SWG
-Retired- EVE
-Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled)
- 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
I tend to agree, because I actually believe that raiding in BC is a lot more fun than it was prior to BC. 40 man raids were a nightmare. Trying to get that many people organized, on time, ready to go with pots and whatever was needed was a real pain. But Karazhan, which I'm sure some of you hardcore raiders don't even consider raiding, is a blast. 10 People is a good number to raid with as you can easily keep up with everyone and make sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to. I remember in the 40 mans that some people used to just kinda hang back and let the other 39 or so take care of things and then they would reap the rewards. It's a lot harder to do that in a 10 man raid group and you'll get called out if you're not pulling your weight. Plus the chances of actually winning an item are much better in a 10 person raid group so people don't tend to get frustrated with going and not getting anything so loot distribution seems to be less of a problem as well and people are more willing to pass for someone else and you don't have to resort to things like the DKP system which itself is a nightmare to keep up with.
Well i never raided for i found that even 20 man raids were boring to say the least.
Another thing about raids is looking at 40 ppls on my screen was just too chaotic for me.
5 man instance requires closer team work and hence the experience is better(for me).
So since i was not doing raids i did PvP and repeatedly going to 5 man instances. Until i was bored.
So i welcomed the cap rise and the new content. And am looking forward to the new expansion and lvl80.
i have to agree with this person. all games experience a decline in subscriptions after they have been out for a while. wow is no exception. it would have been just plain stupid to not introduce an expansion to keep the players happy. also i believe the majority of players wanted a lvl increase. so i dont think blizzard made a mistake at all
wow is dead in pve go to any city and you ll see what i mean they are in arena or at end game content everything else is dead or close to so unless they get cool looking item in the pre-burning crusade(cause lets face it cooll looking item is nice to get)or for that fact burning crusade it will continue to fade to the merit of guild wars witch by the way has never been so full everywhere.
i wish they would have put new abilities in drops (incinerate, victory rush). Made heroic versions of current 5 mans (with no rep required to enter) to offer a sidegrade of gear to preBC raids (mc-naxx gear) or you could get the quest rewards from hellfire to catch up to preBC raid gear even if you didn't gain any levels from the quests. Then just add more instances and zones and shit past that.
Outlands you can pretty much leave as is right now. You could even keep mobs hit points and attack power the same but make them all lvl 63 max to not screw with your chances to hit. Keep the level cap 60 and people would still do all that stuff for faction rewards. There would have to be something so that you couldn't get a flying mount the first day, like make a reputation for that or something. People would probably still hang out there all day long and do pvp and run instances at a minimally different rate. The only issue I think is determining what people are "too low" for certain dungeons, but don't you do that anyway right now for heroic pickup groups.
I don't know how well that would work, but I got sick of playing my warrior at lvl 64 and the only reason I got my warlock past lvl 65 was cause the retard guild I was in kept pestering me to get to 70. So I got there and quit like a month after.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
I think raising the level cap was a double edged sword. It gave hardcore raiding guilds the chance they wanted to test out the power of their top tier gear against more difficult foes, but it rendered content that people still had a desire to see utterly useless.
What amazes me is that Blizzard so quickly rendered tier 3 epic gear useless, having just recently introduced Naxxramus. Some people were just finally going beyond Blackwing Lair, and some were still exploring it. Blizzard had created a 40-man raid mindset, and many guilds grew in size and organiztion in order to accomodate that.
If anything, new raiding content should have been added to the existing content, much like Blackwing Lair was both an extension of Upper Blackrock Spire and Molten Core. If newer instances were going to be implemented, they should have been implemented in such a way that they didn't draw everyone away from the old world content. Gaining access to Outland should have been an achievement much like Hyjal, rather than an open floodgate for every player 58 and above. At least this would have kept level 60 players around a bit longer to aid their lower leveled guild mates.
Our guild fell to pieces thanks to 10-man KZ runs and smaller raid sizes. The "elite" quickly congregated together and left everyone else in the dust. I saw it coming before TBC even came out, and for once, I was not happy to be right.
How did Tier 3 epic gear become useless because of BC? As someone already pointed out earlier Tier 3 epic gear was still fine for use well into BC. Not until Kara or so did Tier 3 become useless and how is that different from any other equipment? That's like saying Tier 3 made Tier 2 useless. Of course it did, but you didn't just go to the vendor and buy it, you still had to acqure it thru effort.
Now maybe you can say Tier 2 was useless pretty much as soon as you stepped foot in Outlands, but since there was already a Tier 3 it's not like Tier 2 was "top of the line" equipment. If you were wearing Tier 2 at the release of BC then it was a nice little bonus for you. Only the people who were wearing Tier 3 already were pissed because they had worked hard to get Tier 3 and here are all these people getting comparable gear just by doing quests. It didn't make their gear useless, just not 'leet' and that's what pissed them off.
So you want to keep doing the same things over and over again? Raising the level cap and adding new items that make your old ones obsolete is the nature of expansions. I'm glad your leaving. Buh bye.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
The problem is with that expansion model, is if you spend all the time and effort to be at a Naxx level before BC all your leetness is wasted and as soon as the XP hits everyone is automatically at scrub level. Same will go for WotLK.
I hate to say it, Anarchy Online: Shadowlands was one of the best expansions I've ever seen in MMORPGdom, despite it being vastly incomplete at launch. Of course it turned my beloved AO Classic into EQ1.5 but for the dollar amount its was every bit worth it as expansions in general go. They increased the level cap to 220 AND provided content for 1-200. That is how expansions should be done. Sadly, post-SL expansions were nothing more then glorified content patches.
The gear gap between TBC > WotLK want be as big as WoW > TBC because the gear stats are not being adjusted, the TBC gear had added stamina (blizzard added this due to arenas), new resiliance stat and sockets.. with these in place when WotLK hits gear will much more a progression.
Thats a weak arguement since the most hardcore of players and guilds will reach max level sooner than everyone else and have access to the loot from high end dungeons/raids before the rest of us. It took someone just over 24 hours to go from 60 to 70 in BC, so it would take at most a month for those type of people to regain their "leetness" fairly quickly. If you want to keep spinning your wheels and doing the same content over and over again for the same loot then don't buy the expansion.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Raising the level cap was needed and a good move, but what wasn't was their new end game system. Rep grinds have become insane.
I think pre BC the end game was great with a good variety and good progression.
The should keep increasing the level cap, but they need to make the end game a little easier for new players to get up to speed.
I think you nailed it exactly. I have no problem with the new level cap, but the new endgame is pointless, especially since we all know the next expansion will make it obsolete. Raids and rep grinds and attunement quest chains just aren't fun enough for the rewards they give, especially when those rewards will be easily replaced once WotLK is released. I'll be able to get better rewards without giving up my life, so I've put my 70s on hold and I'm playing alts now.
Well I can't think of any other ways to implement a large amount of content to WoW without raising the level cap. Just adding more instances/ professions wouldn't work at all. I guess there could be other ways of adding the necessary content which would be more complex and more problematic than just raising the level cap (check DAoC, UO, EQ2 xpacks).
Maybe adding new talent trees to every class, or maybe adding a completely new unique system or something around that would be nice. I personally hate grinding/ raiding, so I'm not such a sympathizer with the level cap raise.
Ultima Online 98~04
Dark Age of Camelot 03~07
Final Fantasy XI 04~06
Guild Wars 05~08
World of Warcraft 04~05
Unsuccessful Tries: DFO/EQ2/DRaja/Rag/Req/RYL/9D/Cabal/KO/PSU/RF/GE/TO/TR/DDO/EVE/LoTRO/L2/RZ/SWG/VG
If buying an expansion is a waste because it makes whatever you did before obsolete, every game you ever played in your life was a waste of time. Did you take anything with you when you fnished spending 100s of dollars on all those arcade games? Nope. Did you take your Mario character with you when you finsihed Super mario Brothers? Could you bring Blanka with you when you stopped playing SF2 and began playing SF2 Turbo? No, you played, had fun and moved on.
If you're having FUN playing a videogame, your time is never wasted. You're being entertained. Case closed. If the game feels like a grind, you are certainly wasting your time. Your problem is you're not having fun. Blame yourself, not the game. You should know if its not fun in a few minutes, not MONTHS!!! If you ever feel like you're wasting your time playing a game, you're very bored and need a new hobby. For normal people, a hobby is about having fun, not wasting your time.