I'd have to say either Eve or Horizons. Eve moreso to your post because it is vital to the game. If no one produces, guess what, no one has shit to go blow up. Kind of interesting how the pvper's need the miners and producers and the miners and producers need the pvper's to make their money. It isn't so much complex as it is involved. For basic tech 1 items, you need 1 of 7, if not all 7 minerals found in astroids, or loot, to produce what you are wanting to produce. It could be as simple as making some missiles, to making battleships for others. Next you got capital ships, and production for them. This is more complex and will involve 2 steps to make this happen, and alot of isk and time. You build component A, and then you put that Component in with other ones to make the said capital ship. Not too hard, but more work and more or less a group effort, unless you got no life. After that, you got tech 2 production. That is by far complex. Need to have pos's in low sec or .0 to mine if you wish to have your own stash of tech 2 components, or you can buy them off the market. Last I heard there was no more lotteries being done for tech 2 bpo's so now you need to do invention to get a bpc to make a tech 2 item. It is based on chance, and requires you doing r&d missions for datacores if you want to cut some cost down, or you can buy them off the market as well. If you succeed, you will get a copy of a tech 2 blueprint, which you can run and produce. Complex, but so much fun.
Horizons, it may be a low population game that is very community based, but the crafting in it is very detailed and has multiple processes as well. There is also house building, lairshaping if you wish to be a dragon, which just got revamped a little to make it not so intensive, as it was 4-5x the amount of materials needed to make a lair as a bi-ped plot. There is 6 tier's of materials, and as far as bi-peds go, there is around 20 crafting schools to get involved in. Whether you want to be a simple blacksmith making weapons, or being a construction builder for your own or someone else's plot, you can pretty much do it all. You can also be a dragon, which does come with the ability to fly after doing a series of quests called your Rite of Passage. It does seem it may have a future now that it is owned by people that care about it's future, so I would say give it a try. There is a trial available for it and also for eve.
A distant 3rd, but I won't really recommend it would be Roma Victor. The crafting in that game is amazing, you really feel like your doing something for your area, town, country, what have you. But problem is, it is laggy, high end system requirements though it looks like crap, and maybe at most 20 people online. I can't recommend this cause to me this game has failed to become what it should be. But that is for another topic. I hope this helps you.
If you have any other questions, you can get ahold of me on xfire, or my character name in eve is Rustayne Talrus, and Rustayne on the chaos server in horizons, if you do choose any of the 2. I'm normally on all day, every day.
The experimentation system combined with the ever changing resources you get from changing locations was great. Dont know if its still like that though (I played pre CU).
Eve Online:
True player run economy. Without player created stuff you could not fire a single gun or fly any of the 100 ships except for the shuttle. NPCs do not sell any guns/ships/modules etc. Problem: the eve economy is very complex and you will need to know a few economical rules to be succesfull. You even have to band together with other players to be able to compete - just like in real life.
--- Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
eh, I never liked SWG crafting because I think it was TOO complex. It was too much about resource gathering and managing factories/harvestors for my liking, I'd play a RTS game for that kind of thing.
I never figured out crafting in Vanguard, but, I didn't give it much of a chance. I played in beta, and man was it bad.
WoW crafting is just pathetic. Grind grind grind.
I just started crafting in EQ2 last night and I really like it so far. I really like the countering system (once I figured it out) because it adds a degree of complexity and involvement, without being too over the top. The menu could be a little better, you have to navigate through a full two or so screens to see the stats of the item you want to make, but so far I like it.
I have to agree and disagree. Both Horizons and Ryzom crafting are excellent - these 2 are the best I have ever found in games. And I have played a LOT of them (except for SWG, where I have heard that the original crafting was excellent too). Also, EQ2's crafting currently is an extremely boring grind (just like WOW, and in my current game, LOTRO, sadly), I heard it was nerfed a couple years ago, before that it was much more complex. The idea of the minimgame in crafting is nice in EQ2 though. EVE online would have a nice crafting system too, but I just can't play that game, I hate harsh penalties. Also, I don't feel like paying subscribtions fees for a YEAR, of r the single purpose of leveling my crafting skills to suitable....well... level. EVE's other problem is that the developers are actually playing as a guild themselves, and they are far from being fair to "normal" players ingame (my buddy plays it for years, he told me this. DB
death penalties and crafting go hand-in-hand. If items last forever then I dont need you. If I can get my ship blown up, then I need you to build me another.
What harsh death penalty?? We have insurance. We get cash and put it back into the economy.
When we shoot missiles and bullets its disposable / consumable products. we will need more.
you cant be a crafter and not realize this
you're just bashing the game and you never tried it thus your second hand info is straight up misinformed.
edit- ah I did see you have played it but waiting a year to craft.........
ture crafting is a useless skill in a game unless there is item destruction. this creates need for new items gives crafters a purpose and makes a stable economy. stops things like delfation.
I have been trying Xyson but as a long time Darkfall player if I leave Darkall I would really rather be done with asshat clan/toon names like 'total death' and 'pwn u'. I am just getting to old for that s** even though they dont affect my actual game play that much, its just not a meta community I care to be around anymore.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I have been trying Xyson but as a long time Darkfall player if I leave Darkall I would really rather be done with asshat clan/toon names like 'total death' and 'pwn u'. I am just getting to old for that s** even though they dont affect my actual game play that much, its just not a meta community I care to be around anymore.
I have been trying Xyson but as a long time Darkfall player if I leave Darkall I would really rather be done with asshat clan/toon names like 'total death' and 'pwn u'. I am just getting to old for that s** even though they dont affect my actual game play that much, its just not a meta community I care to be around anymore.
Necro a 4 years old thread must be somekind of record.
Which MMO's have the best crafting features and why? I'm looking for a MMO where one's crafting skills play a vital role in gameplay and the economy of the game.
Well it's kinda of a 2 part question.
Games with great/best crafting (although usually very grindy): Ryzom, Istaria, Vangaurd, Atitd, Eve, Fallen Earth probably a few more.
But with economy
- Vanguard - many things sold and bought - although low pop
- Istaria - many things sold and bought - although low pop-
- Ryzom - useless - virtually nothing is sold, all from guild
- Eve - can't say, haven't tried it - but I'm told the economy is very good.
- Fallen Earth - not bad so far, many things you craft for yourself but the Auction channel is always full and resources sell quite well
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
The best crafting allows crafters to be just as powerful and successful as anyone else. The best economic system would allow each step in the process to allow someone to become just as successful as anyone else. The gatherer could be the most powerful person on the server. or the crafter, or the merchant, or the hunter. You get back as much as your willing to put in.
This would require wealth progression to most, although it doesnt have to be so straight forward. wealth is just a means to an end to achieve power. And power is what Devs dont want players to have unless it comes through them.
So kiss any dreams you have goodbye until that changes.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
The best MMORPG crafting system that's out there, or ever was there, doesn't matter at all if the gameplay doesn't support it. Regardless if you like a simple or complex crafting system, or how cool the items you make are, it's all for nothing if the items are indestructible. Because once a sale is made, the chance for repeat business for that same general item is gone.
If Sir Tek goes out and buys "Plate Mail of Pwnage Prevention" from you, he never, ever, EVER will come back to you for armor again if he was anywhere near level cap / "endgame." Because once he has it, it will never break, unless he was a dumb*ss and accidentally deletes it. This is why you see certain items at insane prices, because the crafters must make their money with that only possible transaction with you.
Also, if the game litters superior equipment than what crafters can make via loot drops or quest rewards, there's no incentive for players to purchase gear from crafters. When I left LOTRO, my Champion got to Lv65 (cap when I left, not sure what it is now) without buying armor or weapons from crafters. The game dropped in my lap very nice equipment via drops or quest rewards. Why would I buy any such gear if the game gives it to me? Only consumeables were what I needed to acquire and hoard. Just when I thought during my character's progress that I needed a better two-handed weapon, POOF! The game drops a nice one in my lap.
The best overall system, IMO, was Pre-NGE SWG's. Others on this thread and on other forum posts have described the crafting system. The game may have been heavily nerfed by the NGE, but the guts of the crafting system is actually still there (at least when I left in '05)... it's just the game shifted towards quest rewards and loot. But the crafting system is still there, though neglected by the devs and basic gameplay. But the other thing that made old SWG's system great, and tops in the genre then and now, was that practically all items eventually break. Armor, weapons, etc., will break for good from usage and wear and tear. There was always a portion of the adventuring crowd looking for replacements, and there was a very healthy crafting and merchant population on the servers, all competing for your business. More importantly, your repeat business. If a crafter wanted to survive and prosper, he needed to strike a good balance in quality, price, and of course, selection. Becaue the other variant in the game was that no single item is made the same. That E-11 Blaster from one crafter will have some differences from another. And some crafters were better at it than others.
Let me put it like this. Back in the day with SWG, players on a server would recognize certain crafters because of the quality of their goods, selection, and pricing. Hell, I recall us arguing about who was the best Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, etc. in between adventuring sessions.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Let me put it like this. Back in the day with SWG, players on a server would recognize certain crafters because of the quality of their goods, selection, and pricing. Hell, I recall us arguing about who was the best Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, etc. in between adventuring sessions.
The best were those who ran their business best. People went to them becuase they were dependable. Thats all it took to be successful as a crafter in swg. Pick your customers and give em what they need, and when they come back for more make sure you have it. Success!! Keep doing it and you become known server wide. How many games even offer any opportunity to be known server wide? Hell people dont even talk anymore.
Developers want you to be dependant on them not other players. Until that changes all crafting will be a side skill you choose at level 10.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Havent gotten deep into Wurm but out of what I have crafted in.
1) Vanguard- love the crafting levels, the crafting gear, crafting quests
2) Mortal Online- I like the harvesting part and extracting different metals, seems realistic. Also like the fact that you can make one sword with 10 different metals etc. and any combo of hilts on any blade and get a different weapon.
Got to agree with everone saying Horizons (Istaria). In all my years of crafting, nothing could ever compare to the feeling when we built the first bridge to a new continent, knowing that I had been part of that accomplishment.
Comments
I'd have to say either Eve or Horizons. Eve moreso to your post because it is vital to the game. If no one produces, guess what, no one has shit to go blow up. Kind of interesting how the pvper's need the miners and producers and the miners and producers need the pvper's to make their money. It isn't so much complex as it is involved. For basic tech 1 items, you need 1 of 7, if not all 7 minerals found in astroids, or loot, to produce what you are wanting to produce. It could be as simple as making some missiles, to making battleships for others. Next you got capital ships, and production for them. This is more complex and will involve 2 steps to make this happen, and alot of isk and time. You build component A, and then you put that Component in with other ones to make the said capital ship. Not too hard, but more work and more or less a group effort, unless you got no life. After that, you got tech 2 production. That is by far complex. Need to have pos's in low sec or .0 to mine if you wish to have your own stash of tech 2 components, or you can buy them off the market. Last I heard there was no more lotteries being done for tech 2 bpo's so now you need to do invention to get a bpc to make a tech 2 item. It is based on chance, and requires you doing r&d missions for datacores if you want to cut some cost down, or you can buy them off the market as well. If you succeed, you will get a copy of a tech 2 blueprint, which you can run and produce. Complex, but so much fun.
Horizons, it may be a low population game that is very community based, but the crafting in it is very detailed and has multiple processes as well. There is also house building, lairshaping if you wish to be a dragon, which just got revamped a little to make it not so intensive, as it was 4-5x the amount of materials needed to make a lair as a bi-ped plot. There is 6 tier's of materials, and as far as bi-peds go, there is around 20 crafting schools to get involved in. Whether you want to be a simple blacksmith making weapons, or being a construction builder for your own or someone else's plot, you can pretty much do it all. You can also be a dragon, which does come with the ability to fly after doing a series of quests called your Rite of Passage. It does seem it may have a future now that it is owned by people that care about it's future, so I would say give it a try. There is a trial available for it and also for eve.
A distant 3rd, but I won't really recommend it would be Roma Victor. The crafting in that game is amazing, you really feel like your doing something for your area, town, country, what have you. But problem is, it is laggy, high end system requirements though it looks like crap, and maybe at most 20 people online. I can't recommend this cause to me this game has failed to become what it should be. But that is for another topic. I hope this helps you.
If you have any other questions, you can get ahold of me on xfire, or my character name in eve is Rustayne Talrus, and Rustayne on the chaos server in horizons, if you do choose any of the 2. I'm normally on all day, every day.
SWG:
The experimentation system combined with the ever changing resources you get from changing locations was great. Dont know if its still like that though (I played pre CU).
Eve Online:
True player run economy. Without player created stuff you could not fire a single gun or fly any of the 100 ships except for the shuttle. NPCs do not sell any guns/ships/modules etc. Problem: the eve economy is very complex and you will need to know a few economical rules to be succesfull. You even have to band together with other players to be able to compete - just like in real life.
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
eh, I never liked SWG crafting because I think it was TOO complex. It was too much about resource gathering and managing factories/harvestors for my liking, I'd play a RTS game for that kind of thing.
I never figured out crafting in Vanguard, but, I didn't give it much of a chance. I played in beta, and man was it bad.
WoW crafting is just pathetic. Grind grind grind.
I just started crafting in EQ2 last night and I really like it so far. I really like the countering system (once I figured it out) because it adds a degree of complexity and involvement, without being too over the top. The menu could be a little better, you have to navigate through a full two or so screens to see the stats of the item you want to make, but so far I like it.
death penalties and crafting go hand-in-hand. If items last forever then I dont need you. If I can get my ship blown up, then I need you to build me another.
What harsh death penalty?? We have insurance. We get cash and put it back into the economy.
When we shoot missiles and bullets its disposable / consumable products. we will need more.
you cant be a crafter and not realize this
you're just bashing the game and you never tried it thus your second hand info is straight up misinformed.
edit- ah I did see you have played it but waiting a year to craft.........
ture crafting is a useless skill in a game unless there is item destruction. this creates need for new items gives crafters a purpose and makes a stable economy. stops things like delfation.
My blog:
I think I might try tail in the desert.
I have been trying Xyson but as a long time Darkfall player if I leave Darkall I would really rather be done with asshat clan/toon names like 'total death' and 'pwn u'. I am just getting to old for that s** even though they dont affect my actual game play that much, its just not a meta community I care to be around anymore.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Holy necro's Batman.
Resource gathering - UO - Most realistic, if you want wood chop a static tree that respawns wood, dig in a earth that respawns ore.
Crafting - Ryzom - Very customizable (I've heard SWG was that good at one point too)
Eve's overall crafting is also very good.
Haven and Hearth. Its a free to play Java based Isometric Crafting MMO
http://www.havenandhearth.com
Necro a 4 years old thread must be somekind of record.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I'm surprised at the number of posters in this thread that still post on this site. Bravo, old timers.
Well it's kinda of a 2 part question.
Games with great/best crafting (although usually very grindy): Ryzom, Istaria, Vangaurd, Atitd, Eve, Fallen Earth probably a few more.
But with economy
- Vanguard - many things sold and bought - although low pop
- Istaria - many things sold and bought - although low pop-
- Ryzom - useless - virtually nothing is sold, all from guild
- Eve - can't say, haven't tried it - but I'm told the economy is very good.
- Fallen Earth - not bad so far, many things you craft for yourself but the Auction channel is always full and resources sell quite well
Venge
The best crafting allows crafters to be just as powerful and successful as anyone else. The best economic system would allow each step in the process to allow someone to become just as successful as anyone else. The gatherer could be the most powerful person on the server. or the crafter, or the merchant, or the hunter. You get back as much as your willing to put in.
This would require wealth progression to most, although it doesnt have to be so straight forward. wealth is just a means to an end to achieve power. And power is what Devs dont want players to have unless it comes through them.
So kiss any dreams you have goodbye until that changes.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
The best MMORPG crafting system that's out there, or ever was there, doesn't matter at all if the gameplay doesn't support it. Regardless if you like a simple or complex crafting system, or how cool the items you make are, it's all for nothing if the items are indestructible. Because once a sale is made, the chance for repeat business for that same general item is gone.
If Sir Tek goes out and buys "Plate Mail of Pwnage Prevention" from you, he never, ever, EVER will come back to you for armor again if he was anywhere near level cap / "endgame." Because once he has it, it will never break, unless he was a dumb*ss and accidentally deletes it. This is why you see certain items at insane prices, because the crafters must make their money with that only possible transaction with you.
Also, if the game litters superior equipment than what crafters can make via loot drops or quest rewards, there's no incentive for players to purchase gear from crafters. When I left LOTRO, my Champion got to Lv65 (cap when I left, not sure what it is now) without buying armor or weapons from crafters. The game dropped in my lap very nice equipment via drops or quest rewards. Why would I buy any such gear if the game gives it to me? Only consumeables were what I needed to acquire and hoard. Just when I thought during my character's progress that I needed a better two-handed weapon, POOF! The game drops a nice one in my lap.
The best overall system, IMO, was Pre-NGE SWG's. Others on this thread and on other forum posts have described the crafting system. The game may have been heavily nerfed by the NGE, but the guts of the crafting system is actually still there (at least when I left in '05)... it's just the game shifted towards quest rewards and loot. But the crafting system is still there, though neglected by the devs and basic gameplay. But the other thing that made old SWG's system great, and tops in the genre then and now, was that practically all items eventually break. Armor, weapons, etc., will break for good from usage and wear and tear. There was always a portion of the adventuring crowd looking for replacements, and there was a very healthy crafting and merchant population on the servers, all competing for your business. More importantly, your repeat business. If a crafter wanted to survive and prosper, he needed to strike a good balance in quality, price, and of course, selection. Becaue the other variant in the game was that no single item is made the same. That E-11 Blaster from one crafter will have some differences from another. And some crafters were better at it than others.
Let me put it like this. Back in the day with SWG, players on a server would recognize certain crafters because of the quality of their goods, selection, and pricing. Hell, I recall us arguing about who was the best Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, etc. in between adventuring sessions.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
The best were those who ran their business best. People went to them becuase they were dependable. Thats all it took to be successful as a crafter in swg. Pick your customers and give em what they need, and when they come back for more make sure you have it. Success!! Keep doing it and you become known server wide. How many games even offer any opportunity to be known server wide? Hell people dont even talk anymore.
Developers want you to be dependant on them not other players. Until that changes all crafting will be a side skill you choose at level 10.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Havent gotten deep into Wurm but out of what I have crafted in.
1) Vanguard- love the crafting levels, the crafting gear, crafting quests
2) Mortal Online- I like the harvesting part and extracting different metals, seems realistic. Also like the fact that you can make one sword with 10 different metals etc. and any combo of hilts on any blade and get a different weapon.
Got to agree with everone saying Horizons (Istaria). In all my years of crafting, nothing could ever compare to the feeling when we built the first bridge to a new continent, knowing that I had been part of that accomplishment.