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What is happening to the MMOs?
Kelldorain
Member Posts: 7
What is happening to the MMO world?
Firstly if you do not like ranting or the likes you might as well stop reading.
I am wondering and have been doing so for the last couple of years, what is happening to the MMO industry?
You might think that with better technology and better coding that the MMO games would hold better quality than the utter shit the companies are releasing atm.
Most of the upcoming and a hand full of the MMO games that are to be released or are released can go under the category standardmmo.com. it feels like all the MMO-development companies in the world wants the biggest most successful MMO in the world with utter shit content game-play and oh yes, and this is my favorite, every monkey in the world should be able to play it, but still fail it feels like, there is a big lottery going all the companies in the world are rolling their dices and hoping to be the next successful mmo.
Lets take a leap back in time, not so far maybe say 6-10 years you had about 5-10 mmos that were out not a lot of mmo gamers to go around at that time anyway. However Ill start you off with Ultima Online, which is where my MMO career started. What you had there was the endless grind to get that 0.1% in that skill you wanted and for those that haven't played that game there were more than enough skills to keep you busy for days months and in my case years. What was fun about that game was the sheer brutality of it, you could kill another player take every piece of equipment he had on and go back to your castle and do you evil laugh. Sure that made 12 year old kids cry....wait hang on how many 12 year old kids played that game my guess is less than 0.1%
Going though the years, a new game surfaced Asherons call 1 Turbine in association with Microsoft made a brilliant game with a skill system/stat system that would make any mature MMO gamer cry these days I will not go deeper into the details if you are interested in this...look it up however the quest and content wasn't all that great....oh right potentially there was no lvl cap to that game...the highest numerical lvl you can reach was 126 or 127 can't quite remember it was a while ago.
So now I have managed to name 2 games that had basically no limitation to what you could do or how far you could go with your char in both of those cases and I underline this there was not a lot of lololol lore there wasn't huge bosses that you needed X amount of players Y amount of time to learn how to kill this boss.
So from here you'd think oh boy oh boy what is next......
Shit is what you get next all from Asherons call 2 to world of warcraft and beyond yes ladies and gentlemen they actually managed to make a monkey play world of warcraft and downed boss X after Y ammount of time FIRST IN THE WORLD!!!! you must think I'm patronizing all the players that play wow, no not at all since I was one of them and yes I was in a guild that got at least a Europe first, but those days a long gone looking behind me it saddens me that the MMOgames has reached this level of stupidity every single MMO that is released has a lvl cap of 50 or around that, you cant do anything with your char your skills and attributes are spoon fed to you, yes you can bash your head against the keyboard and still be omg wtf pwn great! whats even worse is that in the bitter end everyone has the same skills stats talents gear and look like everyone else one big happy family.
so whats my point?
My point is that the MMOs have Devolved, yes they look better, but thats just it, nothing else, Id rather play a game that looks shit but is very entertaining than play a very nice game that the only thing that you have to do is....well nothing.
What happened to the concept of you shouldn't be able to finish and mmo? these days you have to wait years for the next expansion that will give you 10 more levels and meanwhile you can try to get set-amour 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 and so on.
So when is the MMO that will let you go as far as you like form you char as you like and do what ever you like?
Probably never the way that things are going now....the next generation mmos will have the special feature of we'll level you're char for you just press this button....wait no that has been done already good job eve. I can't wait to see whats next!
The reason for this post?
Well I just wanted to know if anyone except me felt this way or am I unique? anyway flame away I'm happy I got this out of my system.
/Kell
Comments
What is happening to the MMO world?
More dumb downs every new release leading to bordem within 2 month or less.
lol... link to me where you read/saw this monkey play WoW and take down a boss.
Nobody will disagree that MMO devs need to get their shit together, but don't talk out of your ass. WoW might be easy, but monkeys aren't playing WoW, and they're definitely not taking down bosses.
I let my 4 year old daughter hit the buttons for me while playing wow. She was able to keep my rogue in the top 3 on the damage meter too.
War Beta Tester
Did she also down a boss? I'm sure she was also in AV, because there is no way she would be on top in any other BG with just SS or Hemo. This guy is claiming a monkey downed a fucking boss. Yes you can get away with shit like spamming SS nonstop in AV, but you're not going to down a fucking boss.
Raid in WoW is no way easy, that's why you have all the sad story from pug (pick-up-group). It really takes coordination from every one part to understand their class to do effectively.
However if you are talking about the kill number of x mob and turn in their kidney, and also about the current mmo "end-game" content, than ive to agree that its very very narrow minded design...
RIP Orc Choppa
bosses are only hard in WoW til you get the upper tier gear. I remember UBRS being a challenge to 20 people. But then once the ubers started popping up (high, high tier geared guilds) they would 5 man UBRS
one of my fav WoW films featured 2 lvl 60 mages two manning scholomance wit ease with their uber trinkets
time investment > player skill in WoW
my buddy lets his 6yr old pvp for him in Battlegrounds.I guess they have to do it to maintain customers? Customers pay for 'progress' and results lol not to be 'challenged'.
There is hope for us. Halo 3, Mass Effect, etc should be good. got them on reserve. elder scrolls oblivion is a lot of fun too heh
the suits are after the main stream gamers..
Yes it was on bosses. I hated WoW's BG pvp. So I never did it. I did raid though.
War Beta Tester
Yes it was on bosses. I hated WoW's BG pvp. So I never did it. I did raid though.
Dude... AV bosses dont count. They're nowhere near as tough as raid bosses. You just die and go right back to them, sometimes at a GY right next to their building. AV doesn't even count, it is a BG more than half the people don't even care about. Many people just sit in the cave and AFK, while otheres stay on "defense", and the rest rush to kill NPCs which are easy as hell. This guy is talking about actual bosses, as in raids. Anyway, whatever... The fact is a monkey was not downing bosses. Tell me about how your daughter was killing it in TK or BT, or how she was top dmg in AB or EotS relying on mashing random buttons or simply spamming nothing but SS/Hemo.
Aye, It's pretty sad.
UO and AC1 were the best games I have ever played, bar none. It seems these days I often find myself forcing myself to play these modern MMO's, and find the PVP (in particular) to be very dull, lacking and repetitive.
There's a reason I played AC1 for 4 years
You do realize what he said was hyperbole right? RIGHT?
EDIT: Also, I played my brother's account while he was doing BG and I had never played a warrior; I had no idea what skills he had; and had no inkling as to what gear he needed to use; but I still lived and I managed to get more than a few kills--even though I had no idea what was actually going on.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Sorry, "yes ladies and gentlemen they actually managed to make a monkey play world of warcraft and downed boss X after Y ammount of time" isn't the same as "even a monkey can play WoW." If that's what he meant, then I misunderstood. I'm also not denying the fact that it's possible to spam buttons and kill a mob/horrible player.
Well, someone (Blizzard) managed to show how one can earn loads of money with a certain type of MMOG. They did that indeed very well. They introduced many new players to the genre and even 90% of the people who had already played MMOGs before WoW bought that game. Overall a fantastic financial success.
And of course other game companies watched that financial success and their suits decided that they want to earn loads of money too. Therefore, from now on for the foreseeable future, all MMOGs from major companies will be designed for the people that like the WoW-type of game. It's simply because this formula promises a chance to earn the highest profit ever made in the gaming market.
Of course, if you happen to belong to the minority of people that do not like these WoW-type games (like me) then you will have a hard time to find anything playable ...
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
If that statement were even remotely true, they wouldn't focus so damn much on raiding. Main stream doesn't like raiding. Every game that includes raiding in it's paradigm has shown that less than 20% of their population base raids and I bet you a year's salary that if you could get uber gear solo or in small groups, half of those 20% wouldn't raid either.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Imo the mmo industry is in a standstill. No one has the balls to try new things or just dosn't have the ideas/money/resources. Thats why we must wait until someone comes out with a new brilliant (or at least a decent) mmo that will "freshen" up the whole mmo scene. Maybe some "soon-to-be-realised " games will bring something new.
Well unfortunately, since EQ 1 brought the world raiding, and it seems since then that development team has split up and gone to work for several other companies including Blizzard, the raiding model has spread far and wide. (note, two of the biggest games in MMORPG history have raiding in them.... so why wouldn't the suits support it)
But the OP sort of looks at WOW and seems to think that "every" game is the same...... while the WOW influence has been felt far and wide, there are still options for other folks.
You want a game thats still difficult to get to the top, play Lineage 2..... trust me....only a die hard gamer will ever reach the end.
Or, you want some brutality in your game, coupled with intricate crafting, complex political situations etc.... play what I am right now, EVE.
Heck, you can still play most of the classic games which the OP shouldn't mind still doing since he said graphics really weren't that important vs gameplay.
But.....what you really can't do these days is find a FFA PVP, full loot game out there modeled after old school UO/AC Darktide.
There's a reason for that too..... most gamers don't like losing their loot. There are a couple of "hooks" that keep players paying their subs.... first is getting new levels (which is why most games are level based rather than on skills), second is new abilities (hence you tend to get new powers with higher levels) and next you have gear. People like collecting gear, for either looks or abilities and they are willing to work very hard and suffer tons of pain to get it. (hence you have raiding).
The last thing the in the world people want is for someone to kill them in 30 seconds (usually under unfair circumstances) and take away the spoils of their hard earned efforts. From their viewpoint, its the PVP crowd that is lazy and not willing to work for their gear.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am going to have to throw The Cronicles of Spellborn in as a new game that is brining some fresh mechanics:
-No Autotarget
-No Autoattack
-Only 6 skills/spells available at one time
-No Item based advancement. ie: Stats are not tied to what clothes you are wearing.
-No pre-destined Healer class. Each class has some healing ability.
-Emphasis on storyline and quests.
I really havent seen much that compairs to the old EQ. Even EQ isnt the old EQ anymore. I think even VG has felt the wow influence. Its not the same game as it was in beta. After giving up on vg at least or a while, I have returned to WoW and I must admit I'm having fun in BC and looking forward to the next expansion.
I think this game has the best chance to "break the mold" and do something unique, interesting, and fun.
on another note.... MMORPGs will never grow beyond their current limitations until you remove the dependance on a level system. Having levels can be a good thing, but not when 99% of game content is catered to players of specific levels.
Levels should be a general measure of progress, not a hard coded measure of your power. A level 50 shouldn't always be better then a level 20.
"End-Game" content should NOT be reserved for players of only the highest levels. What I think "End Game" content should be is the stuff that is most challenging and rewarding, but not defined by some arbitrary number called "level."
Players need something to work towards, they need to advance a character and feel as if they are becoming more powerful, all the while working towards something even greater.
This doesn't HAVE to be done with a level system or with gear progressions.
Right now the focus of the genre seems to be new and exciting ways to do combat. Hence we see games like AoC and TcoS promoting more "action" oriented combat. But it still will boil down to the same "level grind quest level gear level gring gear" formula that has existed since EQ and made all the more worse by WoW. SWG was one of the few games to break the mold, but it was ruined by their ambitions, by the players themselves, and by the developers.
Until someone figures out a real way to do this... to break the mold and keep it that way... while still being very successful and profitable....
expect to see a lot more of the same.
I am really happy that some of you guys feel the same way I do about this issue, and thus don't feel alone about it and hopefully someone somewhere will decide to make a mature nice MMO.
Just a side note before I go on, that Ape thing was at very best sarcasm....if you did not get the underlining meaning then I'll try to rephrase it. But to say that WoW is hard without even trying one of the old school games like AC1 pre macroers and the destruction of the skill system. lvls had no meaning to what you could do it was just a number to show how much XP you had accumilated, the XP you earned you could put in any number of skills or attribute, so hypothetically speaking a lvl 30-40 could be just a s good as a 80-90 char skill wise depending on what you put in your xp in. spells were not spoon fed to you, you actually had to RESEARCH your own spells...well untill they cracked the formula to how to researech you spacific spells.. obviously players will always find a way around obsticles like that...but untill they do you're on yoru own.....Yes I admit you can't say that raiding in wow is easy because it is hard and the boss fights are intense and you need to be on your feet....but in comparison put a lvl 40 char from AC1 with the right skills against any wow boss and he'll rip it to shreds why? because you werent restricted by your class you could do a hybrid melee/healer/spellcaster what ever...sure you wouldnt be wonderful at all of thoes and be GOD but still could heal your self wear heavy armour etc.
Anyway this wasnt my way of provoking anyone that is playing a spacific game that I flamed and having fun it it...I am hopeing that someone somewhere somehow reads this that is in a position to make a diffrence that there probably still a market for a more mature playerbase.
//Kell
You can make a different MMORPG and risk your investment on it. If people likes it, it will be a gold mine, if not, you will lose your money
The classic MMORPGs are a safe investment, at least for getting your money back. Or maybe, in rare situations, it can be a gold mine.
So the companys usually make the second type of MMORPG.
PS: The same for single player games, most of them are the second, third, forth... etc part of a succesful saga.
Comunist ideology put to practic in today's MMORPG's, meant to keep everyone on the same level, given a false sense of satisfaction, an illusion of individuality, and basicly well ... they appeal to the <working class> = the casual gamer, the one that is wide spread and can be fooled into giving up his $$ very fast.
I don't see a favorable resolution to this plague that took over the MMORPG genre that's why I for one im spacing myself from it, going to MMOFPS or any other games that dare to be different and excite through innovation.
Edit:
By the way, you are not alone Kelldorain, dont be afraid to speak out no matter what those that cant see why they should agree with you say
I see that young Kelldorain is stirring the pot as it seems. Actually young master before you go on a rant you should first reseach and give at least a modicum of evidence that backs up any claim you make, sire.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Hi
I think there is a lot of confusion out there about what is a 'good game' and what is a 'bad one'.
The genre has now reached a stage where it has (or at least should be) diversifying.
For better or worse WoW tends to be the game that all other MMOs are compared to, simply because its the most popular. As an example:
WoW is a fun game. It's disposable. I can log on for an hour have a spot of PVE or PVP fun and log off again.
EVE is a differen't matter. It takes considerably more effort to get anywhere, or achieve anything. Scratch the surface and the two games have little in common.
Is one better than the other? Depends on your perspective and what you are looking for. At the moment my free time is limited so I have suspended my EVE account, but renewed my WoW account.
It's up to you what you do with your time, enjoy it. If you stop enjoying it quit. Moaning about it achieves very little.
cheers for now
chubchub
Reserch? I dont have to do any reserch the games I'm promoting and flaming are games that I've played for 3-4 years each.
the only claim that I've made that doesn't have any substancial "reserch" as you call it into it is that " there is a market for a more advanced char evolution" and what the companies are currently doing.
/kell
Edit:
I guess I just have to stop playing these type of games since I always crave more of what the market is currently offering. But by all means keep the discussion going.