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Why aren't MMORPGs fun anymore?
ParkCarsHere
Member Posts: 666
Maybe this is just me, but judging by these forums I'm going to say a lot of other people are having the same problems as me.
I've been an MMORPG player for 8 years now and I just can't find a game that is good enough to be A) Worth the money and 
Fun. My first MMORPG ever was Nexus TK (Nexus what!?), a small MMORPG that had 1,000 people on at peak times during the day, generally more like 300. I paid $10 a month for that, and the graphics were terrible but it had the BEST community and the BEST roleplaying I had ever seen. The community made hunting for experience fun and the roleplaying made the game ever evolving, even though the devs only updated like once a month, if that.
Then the flood of MMORPGs came over the past few years, like EQ 2, WoW, EVE, D&DO, LOTRO, etc. These games are fun at first, but then they quickly fade into boring repetition. Yes, you EVE fanatics have found something great in your game: corporation based gameplay that creates ever-evolving gameplay with a whole bunch of people that make the game fun to play. However, for those of us who would like to play that game now, we will ALWAYS be in last place because skills are based on real-time (unless that has changed since last year). WoW ends in a raid fest and, from what everyone says, LOTRO ends in nothingness (lacks end-game content).
I say all that to ask this question: why aren't MMORPGs fun anymore? It seems like the same old stuff keeps being recycled back to us with different graphics, but same old mechanics. Maybe I'm asking for too much... but I'd like an MMORPG that will be fun to play AND worth the money that will keep me coming back to play month after month. If anyone is playing such a game... please, tell me so I can have fun with an MMORPG again!
Comments
This is what i belive:
Back in the days when MMORPG's were just being discovered the people were more interested in making a good game. Over the year however company's really started to realize how much people liked these style in games so they all tried(ing) to rush games onto the market to get as many custimers as they can. They rush them so fast that they dont really think about quility as much as they could. Thats pretty much how it is now.
MMORPGs are no longer fun because we've all already done the whole "pick class, grind level" business. From EQ1 to WoW barely anything has changed in terms of game mechanics. MMORPGs still rely almost exclusively on levels, classes, quests, XP, turn based combat, et cetera. Plus every frakin' MMORPG is fantasy. I hate fantasy.
The genre is simply devoid of any innovation whatsoever. It's like having FPSs never advancing beyond Quake in any area besides graphics. If that was the case FPSs would be boring as well.
What this genre needs is a Half-Life, not another Unreal Tournament.
Honorary mentions to preCU SWG and EVE for bucking the trends somewhat.
First of all, you'll have to stop looking at mainstream games. People complain about the same old same old, and yet there are dozens of indie MMO developers out there with fan bases. You're going to have to go off the beaten trail and try these indie games for yourself. Roma Victor, Shadowbane, or World War II Online are just three of the smaller developed games out there.
But I often find the problem with certain MMO players is that they want the high end EQII graphics, the frequent updates and the comprehensive customer service and at the same time they want innovation. Sorry, the economics just do not add up. All the goodies come at a high price and to afford those goodies, the game has to be mainstream and appeal to a wide audience.
But if you're willing to be a realist about it, there are plenty of indie games that have great game play for niche tastes. The trade-off is that you don't get ALL the goodie or you don't get them fast.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Question: Why aren't MMORPG's fun anymore?
Response: Because too many people are preoccupied with complaining about them, and cry too much.
Mainstream and inability to innovate makes the MMORPG genre boring.
Mainstream: Everything is being nerfed down to casual players. One example is SWG and the NGE. And all new games comming out is proclaiming they have a better way of doing levels, so the casual player have easier access to high end stuff. Back in the days, it took time and sweat to become the very best. Now you can become the best by 1 hour of gaming every day.
Example: I was in a top raiding guild in WoW, while i was also in top 5 arena PvP team. If it was a hard game, I probably wouldnt be doing either, as I dont spend as much time as I used to. I may be playing 2-3 hours a day, and still being able to be in the top... in 2 "genres" of gameplay.
Inability to innovate: Copying of World of Warcraft, but doing it the wrong way. They only copy the gameplay, not the actual game... Meaning you see unfinished games with mainstream content.
If they could just copy the ability to make a near to flawless game, with no bugs.
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
There are a lot of MMORPGs out there. Just looking at the Game List on this site is enough to overwhelm anyone. However, the number of these games that are actually worth playing are few and far between, and when you find a game that is fun to play (for example, an Indie game) no one has ever heard of it so the community is either nonexistant, or there is a huge language barrier that cannot be overcome.
Let's look at the "big name" releases of the past few years: Lord of the Rings Online, fantasy RPG. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, fantasy RPG. Everquest 2, fantasy RPG. World of Warcraft, fantasy RPG. D&D Online, fantasy RPG.
Yes, there are more, but that's ridiculous. Of the above mentioned games, only one was widely popular (WoW) and two were semi-popular among MMORPG players (LOTRO and EQ2). THESE are the big named games that should be making innovations, but they don't.
There are a lot of MMORPGs out there. Just looking at the Game List on this site is enough to overwhelm anyone. However, the number of these games that are actually worth playing are few and far between, and when you find a game that is fun to play (for example, an Indie game) no one has ever heard of it so the community is either nonexistant, or there is a huge language barrier that cannot be overcome.
Let's look at the "big name" releases of the past few years: Lord of the Rings Online, fantasy RPG. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, fantasy RPG. Everquest 2, fantasy RPG. World of Warcraft, fantasy RPG. D&D Online, fantasy RPG.
Yes, there are more, but that's ridiculous. Of the above mentioned games, only one was widely popular (WoW) and two were semi-popular among MMORPG players (LOTRO and EQ2). THESE are the big named games that should be making innovations, but they don't.
And my point, which too few people get in the MMO industry, is that innovation is very risky. A mainstream MMO company is not going to bet millions of development dollars on the chance that their innovation will pay off. WoW was not innovative, sorry to say. It was simpy evolutionary much like most mainstream games being developed. They evolve through baby steps where past success can built upon.
Now if you're going to convince yourself that indie games aren't worth playing then I can't help you. That is where you will find innovation, plain and simple. I play World War II Online from time to time. When I take a break from that game, it's because it's become too addicting. Yes I wish there were more people playing it, but that situation won't get any better if I stop playing. It's like voting. You can convince yourself that your vote doesn't count, but you'd be a fool.
If more people supported niche games, perhaps they wouldn't be at the fringe of the MMO industry.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Thats easy..........
It is because they have become point and click arcade style versions of their former selves. The challenge and camaraderie have been removed and replaced by a single player experience with a built in chat client. They lack the depth and community that made this genre the perfect evolution from pen and paper table top to massively multiplayer online.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Houstan, I believe we have located the problem.
Houstan, I believe we have located the problem.
Well, not really. I haven't been a hardcore MMORPG player. I rarely make it to the level cap and the MMORPG I played 5-8 years ago was when I was not even a teenager. I'm only 18 now, and I highly doubt I got the most out of an MMORPG experience when I was 10-13. I haven't played every single MMORPG, I'm just commenting on a trend that I'm seeing while playing MMORPGs, and a trend I'm seeing when looking on these boards.
1) We've been playing basically the same game with a different skin for far too long. As everyone mentioned, lack of innovation is killing our enthusiasm for the genre.
2) If you do anything for thousands of hours, it makes perfect sense that you're going to tired of it eventually. These games are not complex enough that they can truly maintain your interest for years and years.
3) We're jaded. We look back on the 'glory' days of our first few MMO's and we keep looking for the same feeling and experiences. It's not going to happen because most of what made it so great was that it was a new experience for everyone. Everyone was enthusiastic. Everyone was happy about being online, being social, grouping up and exploring.
As you'll notice, the common trend is that we've simply been playing these games for far too long and for too many hours. Take a break from the genre. If you really want online play, there are plenty of other games (FPS, RTS, console online, etc.) Play epic single player games. Play console games with friends (Guitar Hero is a great diversion).
I think when you start to see through the mechanics of the game it starts to become boring. In the beginning it's new and you don't really think about what you are doing. After you have played a lot of games for a long period of time they all start to feel the same even if they have different mechanics. A lot of people start asking for faster paced, harder, more challenging, and more interactive MMOs because their patience for doing the same thing is wearing thin IMO. Personally I don't get nearly the same thrill I got when I played games at a younger age. Nor do I wish to waste large amounts of time on them a second time. Thats why games like WoW do well. People play them a little here and a little there and advance. I doubt the majority of players even raid at all. The casual content keeps them occupied for a long time.
well i have been feeling much the same
The problem i see with things is this, many games have gone from being pastimes to being a second job. This isnt really even the developers problem, it has to do a lot with the players point of view. In my earlier MMO expiriences, i would log on, do some stuff, probably not "level" at all, and have a blast. Games were all about playing in a virtual world, and doing things with your friends for fun. However now when i log into an MMO everyone is just trying to level as fast as possible, this is not fun for me, this feels like work. Maybe i just have a weird idea of what "fun" really is, anyone else feel the same way? Sure, blame the developers for continually pushing out games with a singluar linear advancement line, but these type of games used to be enjoyable until they became a race to level.
I agree with most of you people. Blizzard is the biggest developer and that's their downfall. When the need of making money overwhelms the idea of making a good game, the hole thing fails. There are great many games out there, wich been on the topic couple of times, but I dunno, they just don't appeal to me. I wanna pay for a game because that insures me that I will get great patches, bugs fixed and GM's whose actually there to help. Or, atleast so I thought, but not always does it live up to it. But nevertheless pay-to-play-games do deliver more than a game who issen't built that way.
As for the solo part in mmo's nowadays, I can actually understand that. I mean, it would be great to have a game where teamwork is essencial. Like forcing people together and fight mobs or whatever. But that also leads us to the fact that, if you start playing the game alone, and say your at one quest and you need 4 other people to do it with you and no one's around, well then your pretty screwd. I guess that developers use their safe-cards before anything else in the sence that they know it'll work, boring, but it works.
I have no idea how they put together a MMO but it seems like it takes a long time to put the crew, the ideas down on paper and everything that goes with MMO's, so in that sence I can only imagine the money they spend on lets say two years of paying people and not getting anything out of it until the game actually launches. Risking all that money over two years (?) and what if the game flops? :S But, I totally understand what your saying, I'm looking forward to a new game (mainstream game) and I'm too lazy to go try out one of them indie games, so I guess I just have to blame myself!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
My first mmorpg was AC back in 99. I played it for 2-3 years. After that i jumped to Anarchy Online which i played for 2-3 years. After that it was WOW for about a year. Since i left WOW about a year ago i havent found a mmorpg that could keep my attention for more than a few days or weeks.
I think most developpers can't see beyond the standard mmorp mold. Peoples are getting tired of playing the same old game concept. I can't wait for developpers to come up with something new. Something that is not always the same old, go kill 10 wolves quest kinda game.
No fun for me; I just quit a game I actually got in to.
I have found that grinding levels and level based combat has been my big turn offs for me. I was thinking about a mmo that you could play from your computer and your phone would be interesting. Like manage and coach your own baseball teams.
"And thus I clothe my naked villany/ with old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ/ and seem a saint when most I play the devil." Shakespeare's Richard III Act I Scene 3.
its us (the gamer) as much as them (the developer)
for most of us the most loved MMO was the first one we played, you never get the same thrill or sense of acheivement the nth time you get a char to level cap, or explore yet another new world... unfortunately this is the sad truth
game communities are more or less non-existant in many games nowadays, as RMT, goldsellers, scammers, cheats, hackers, and botters detroy trust and goodwill. quest-driven gameplay create linear single-person gameplay ideals, and the community interdependence of craft-driven economies are replaced by simpler loot-based economies where interaction for gear is with the auction house not another player
There are a lot of MMORPGs out there. Just looking at the Game List on this site is enough to overwhelm anyone. However, the number of these games that are actually worth playing are few and far between, and when you find a game that is fun to play (for example, an Indie game) no one has ever heard of it so the community is either nonexistant, or there is a huge language barrier that cannot be overcome.
Let's look at the "big name" releases of the past few years: Lord of the Rings Online, fantasy RPG. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, fantasy RPG. Everquest 2, fantasy RPG. World of Warcraft, fantasy RPG. D&D Online, fantasy RPG.
Yes, there are more, but that's ridiculous. Of the above mentioned games, only one was widely popular (WoW) and two were semi-popular among MMORPG players (LOTRO and EQ2). THESE are the big named games that should be making innovations, but they don't.
Yes but also look at where the roots of Rpg comes from and it is fantasy is it not ,hence the reason why people stick to this genre because it is easy to adapt to by IMO the reason why MMO's are not fun anymore is because all people do these days is play to pick on the faults of the game instead of seeing the true good nature that they are trying to achieve, and because technology is an ever evolving thing people are expecting great things a little too quick. For exmple every game that i see coming out there are more people slagging them because it is not up to there standards then there are people praising it for what it is and this is what makes an MMo not so fun because people come to places like this and try to find some constructive criticism but only find pointless flames on how the game does not appeal to that specific person but it is enough to put people off trying it and unfortunately that is what is making MMO's not so fun. So we are stuck with mindless NOOBS trying to tell us old MMO vets how it is supposed to be and yet they dont truly understand What an MMORPG is meant to be. It was fun in the days when people knew what they were getting into but unfortunately these days people areplaying because they think it is the thing to do they are not worried at all about what is going on in the game they are just trying to out do other players to the top level for god knows what reason, So us out there that truly live the game,Explore the game and grasp everything that is meant to be in a game are being overun by the infection of clueless little peeps trying to show off.Take Closed beta instances how many people do you truly see get in and actually do what they are meant to do? A small handfull.
I am currently playing a closed beta title that i can not disclose of it's title but most of the peeps i have seen in game are bragging about how long they are trying to achieve the highest level in not bug searching not helping the game just powerleveling
and this is the reason why games are not upto some ppl's standards (and maybe a money issue too lol).
Anyways i guess im saying that the crowd playing MMO's these days do not really understand what the genre is about thus leaving us with an empty stomach of enjoyment when we play. (this does not apply foe every 1 but the majority of ppl more so than a minority.)
Like someone above said, they are all the same game in different skins. Explore some virtual space, explore some characters/classes, some chat (more than fps because of the casual pace), and a little flexing in pvp. Every once in a while a game will throw in a dash of innovation here and there, but not that much.
And the reason there is so little innovation? the BUDGET. The cost of developing good games in this genre causes developers to be risk aversive...well, at least the people who are writing the check. It's easy enough for us to complain about the lack of innovation, but put millions of dollars behind some project, and innovation = risk = scary.
The next 'big thing' (imo) will be some no name company that gets lucky with some financial backing and creates a social game that is so completely different... and that will catch on like wildfire. I'm not exactly sure what such a game would look like, but it would be extreme in the areas of character-development and uniqueness, with some kind of world-alteration happening. Players want to be unique, and they want to make a difference. When a dynamic world can evolve at the pace of the players actions, (instead of being limited to the pace of developers and how fast they can create new content), then such a game will blow everything today out of the water....
Wow, look at this thread--- three pages of 'woe-is-me', no innovation blah, blah, blah. The Independant game developers ARE being innovative. Play their games!!! Oh, that's right, you want a 30 million dollar franchise game that will only appeal to you and your five closest friends.
Fun and innovation are not synonomous. Take EVE Online for example, probably the most successful Indie title. They have something like 160k subs. Enough for them to be financially viable, but they had to build that subscription base up over long years. Not everyone finds the game fun, but it is highly innovative. Does a SOE, EA, Turbine risk 30 or 40 million dollars on developing an EVE-like innovative game just to come out with 150k subs? That is the risk they're facing. Believing anything else is naive.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Like other genres (and other forms of entertainment), the mass market products are going to be huge budget, evolutionary products that are cookie cutter. Most people are still perfectly happy with WoW. Every so often, an independent product will stir the pot. Every 'generation' also sees some new developments.
Unfortunately, SWG is an example of a truly innovative product that failed to meet expections, had crazy costs with difficult development. It isn't easy to bring innovative features to a huge budget game. SWG has a long list of features that are still unique to that game. No question that it was and will be one of the most innovative MMO's, but business people look at that game and think that innovation is a bad thing.
As for us, like I said before, go play something else. Eventually you'll get the urge to play an MMORPG and it'll be fun again. And the cycle will continue.
There are a lot of MMORPGs out there. Just looking at the Game List on this site is enough to overwhelm anyone. However, the number of these games that are actually worth playing are few and far between, and when you find a game that is fun to play (for example, an Indie game) no one has ever heard of it so the community is either nonexistant, or there is a huge language barrier that cannot be overcome.
Let's look at the "big name" releases of the past few years: Lord of the Rings Online, fantasy RPG. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, fantasy RPG. Everquest 2, fantasy RPG. World of Warcraft, fantasy RPG. D&D Online, fantasy RPG.
Yes, there are more, but that's ridiculous. Of the above mentioned games, only one was widely popular (WoW) and two were semi-popular among MMORPG players (LOTRO and EQ2). THESE are the big named games that should be making innovations, but they don't.
And my point, which too few people get in the MMO industry, is that innovation is very risky. A mainstream MMO company is not going to bet millions of development dollars on the chance that their innovation will pay off. WoW was not innovative, sorry to say. It was simpy evolutionary much like most mainstream games being developed. They evolve through baby steps where past success can built upon.
Now if you're going to convince yourself that indie games aren't worth playing then I can't help you. That is where you will find innovation, plain and simple. I play World War II Online from time to time. When I take a break from that game, it's because it's become too addicting. Yes I wish there were more people playing it, but that situation won't get any better if I stop playing. It's like voting. You can convince yourself that your vote doesn't count, but you'd be a fool.
If more people supported niche games, perhaps they wouldn't be at the fringe of the MMO industry.
What other indie games are there that don't suck besides EVE?
developers have no idea how to make this winning formula into something else. Thats probably why there are few real variations of gameplay.