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Most Despised Mechanics of MMORPGs
Cavadus
Member UncommonPosts: 707
We always discuss what we like and what we want but do we absolutely abhor? I'm talking mechanics which are so bad that if you just hear a game will feature them it instantly turns you off and no matter how good the reviews you will forever rebuff the game.
I'll get started with a few:
- Character Levels
- Classes
- Grinding
- XP
- Quests (not all, just the lame kill X snarfles, retrieve the zipzup from some NPC, a circuit of waypoints, et cetera).
- Instances
- Mobs dropping uber loot items instead of components for crafters to use
- Special attacks which are innate even though they obviously shouldn't be (like having a grenade ability where you have a magical unlimited suppy of grenades instead of having to purchase them and keep a stockpile in your inventory).
All of the above drive me nuts. Levels and classes are probably the only two systems which will make reject a game outright without any future consideration but the others usually suck because there is little to no innovation to them.
And instancing just flat out defeats the entire purpose of an MMO to begin with (persistant world with unlimited community interaction).
Comments
i agree with most of those, ill see if i can add a few
9) singular development track (you can only advance by leveling up combat and your combat level determines everything, make there be multiple ways all of equal importance)
10) everyone just races to top level (everyone levels as fast as possible and that just burns me up)
I never developed any hatred toward any particular gameplay feature, but if I really have to pick, I'll say Open PvP.
I don't care if it's "realistic", but having Open PvP just means that the game will be filled with griefers.
It might add tension, but the amount of jerks it will spawn will really annoy me.
Don't get me wrong, I like Pvp. But I like it to be in a controlled environment(PvP-areas, Arenas, etc)
Note: let's count how many posts it will be before someone calls me a carebear
Standing still and auto attacking is seriously my most hated mechanic. I guess I can understand it for PvE, but PvP?
Bind on pickup and no-trade drive me so batty that I don't play games that use this mechanic. Forced raiding as the only realistic method of advancement comes in a very close second.
Having to train Weapon skills.....seriously, what is the point of it...
If I get a sword, and I'm able to use it, I expect to be able to use it...Not to have to grind 100 simple mobs just so I can hit something with it.
OK, call me a carebear, too. I will not play a game that is open PvP.
I also loathe having to do the same repetitive tasks to level up a skill other than combat. Runescape is a perfect example (and why I quit playing it). How many long, boring hours do you have to spend hitting a rock to get your mining skill higher?
................................
My current Guild Wars character:
Dauthix The Avenger (Paragon/Ranger)
Quests that require a lot of mindless trips back and forth between NPCs. Quests that involve killing X amounts of a specific mob, turn in and then it becomes evident that there's a second/third part etc. asking for the exact same thing that you just did, but only slightly higher level this time...I usually end up skipping those quests and do something completely different instead. If the quest involves BOTH "back and forth" AND "kill X amounts", I'm pretty much out - I just can't take it and often just log off. Grrr!
I have nothing against open PvP if it's done correctly. Like appropriate NPC response depending on the area and/or some very harsh repercussions for people getting out of line with it.
That balancing act is pretty hard though. I guess in the end I like "dynamic" PvP. What I mean by that is basically SWG's old TEF system. You weren't ever forced into PvP but you did have to watch your ass under certain circumstances. And any jeopardy you find yourself in was your own doing and no one else's. I thought that system was just about perfect.
Also, having 100% proficiency with weapons the second you pick them up is silly. Yes, you should be able to use them but you can't honestly expect to be as skilled as someone who has dedicated a significant amount of time to it's operation. Ths holds true in both games and RL.
Char levels have to implemented in some fashion, even if you don't see a big numerical "17" on the char sheet; you still have to have some measure of how skilled a character is. If you don't have "character levels" per se, then you have "skill levels"... basically another name for the same data. Classic UO is no different. The only alternative I can think of is to have zero character advancement. That's hardly fun to me.
Classes. No classes? What, everyone's the same class? You can't mean that... that would be the ultimate cookie-cutter. Instead you must mean "I'm not a MAGE, I just have a high Intelligence, collect spells, and toss fireballs..."
XP, same thing. No advancement, then what's the point of the game? Anything else you call it... advancement points... it still boils down to XP.
Boring quests, I'm with you on. Instances? Those are mandatory for a big game, as long as they don't overdo it. You can put in the highest level zones with competitive spawns and leave specialized ones with instances... it's just a diffusion mechanic.
Some mobs MUST drop "uber loot". No game I can think of allows common mobs to drop "uber loot". I would never play a game where a raid mob dropped crafting components.
Not sure what you mean by special attacks... in every game there will be bending of reality, especially in games with magic as a part of the lore. Maybe BF2142 Titan maps influenced your grenade reference.
And there I am sympathetic.
well #1,#3 and #4 are basically the same thing. Although there is now non-XP grinding out there too (gold,faction, etc) the main grinding in todays MMORPG is still XP.
However, what you mentioned is basically what are available to make characters distinct from one another. Someone is a mage vs someone is a fighter, someone is a powerful character vs someone who is new, Someone who has conquered a difficult scenario and has won the spoils vs someoen who has not. Generally those with the most XP/Items etc is usually someone who can play more (ie Hard core) but does not define him as a better player.
I understand the frustration, I often find myself at the losing end of things compared to hard core players. but what other metrics can you install? There will always be haves and have-nots.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Have you ever heard of skill based systems?
1. Inability to explore, let me clarify.
Unless it is a thousand feet wall, with overhang, I want to be able to traverse it, gentle slopes that stops me drives me friggin nuts, invisible walls that are just there to "cut you off" is equally maddening. I want to go were I am not "supposed" to, thereby comes point 2:
2. Level locks, especially for areas but for features as well, as in lotrlol ( yes I renamed it ), to take the horse from esteldin to Bree you need to be level 30?? Shit like that will make me leave.
3. This ties into point 2 but, level locks on items is stupid, if you know Anarchy Onlines system then you know how it is supposed to be, skill based. Allthough I am not against levels, but again AO's system is an awesome hybrid.
4. Slow travel, allthough I love to explore, as my first points might have hinted, when I have done that I do NOT want to run there, this is probably the laziest timesink in these kind of games, my online time is much to limited to spend it on something I REALLY loathe.
5 Suicidal mobs, as in aggro mobs, now mobs should aggro me for sure when they see me, but they should have at least a snowballs chance in hell to kill me, again a lazy timesink. If a mob aggros me when I am AFK and it can NOT kill me, then it should not have gone for me in the first place. This should at least apply to mobs that are supposed to be semi-intelligent.
Points 4 and 5 together is such an obvious stupid timesink. What ever happened to subtlety?
I could go on with features I need as well, but that was not asked for but I shall add, I need to be able to Jump, thats a total deal braker for me.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Check it out, then... Show your support to Infinity's development if you haven't seen it yet.
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/overview/gameID/241
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Boy do I agree with your list. Unfortunately there is not one game that comes close to what you want that is available right now.
Eve probably comes the closest, but then it can be a harsh pvp environment too. If you like crafting you can pretty much avoid all the pvp in Eve and just make things. Everything except the most low level items are crafted in Eve.
I can put up with Character levels as long as they are based on a skill system, not a class system. Any game that puts you into a rigid class structure really takes the individuality out of the game. That was one of the things that disgusted me with NGE, they took the best part of the game away and instituted rigid class structures and levels.
As to Infinity, you have no skills, what is the point of playing if you cannot learn skills????? Sorry you have to have some kind of determination of players by their skillset. Without that you are just flailing in the wind.
*Xp Bars
*Lots of lots of grinding(every mmo) to replace any sort of Rpg element to the world.
*(not sure how to express this) but moving from one area to the next to get a new lot of quests and to fight more mobs but just a little bit harder.
I was pretty interested in Infinity until I read there was no ground game. I mean, you can land on a planet, and the whole thing is rendered even, but you can't get out?
I'm a 75% ground, 25% space kind of guy. I've never been able to play EVE for longer than a week. I always feel like I should be hyperspacing to Theed so I can dock and scour vendors for some decent krayt tissues or some really good damage Mark IV Protons.
I think a lot of your list is pretty good, and I agree that one of the big problem with most MMO's is tied to the level system. Any game that adopts it seems to also adopt static maps (or in some cases missions) where once you hit a high enough level; you spend all your time doing things in those missions/maps.
What I think would make the leveling system better is if worlds were much more dynamic. If too few people quest in an area the power of whatever creatures who live there will rise substantially to attract higher level players. If too many are there the levels gradually drop to so that players lose interest and move on to other areas. With so many games where the whole focus is reaching "end-game" this is a much better solution than the static maps that are so prevalent in most games.
I also think it would be great if more games tried the idea of making quests that actually have an effect on the world. You kill x mobs for some guy to protect his village. You come back and whether 200 people have done this quest, or no people have done the quest there's no change. The mobs don't over run the village and the village doesn't grow. Even if there were small degrees of difference with this I'd think it'd be a big improvement over most MMO's. I know Tabula Rasa is promising a system like this, but after following MMO's for better than 5 years I'm skeptical at best.
Currently I'm in kind of an MMO limbo right now as I've noticed a lot of these things myself. I'm digging around looking for something that's truly "new" and not some re-hashed version of the same systems that have been used in this style of game since they're start. The thing is so many of these games are setup with the same base structure. You pick a class, you level along a preset group of maps/quests, you get to the end and repeat the same thing over and over again in "end-game".
EVE online is the closest I've seen to real innovation within MMO's, but it is far from perfect; especially if you're more inclined to PvE than PvP.
The thing I hate the most is the Good vs. Evil. It naturally draws you into one side or the other and no real alliances can be made. I'd want to see a game with 3 or 5 (damn that's gonna be hard) factions. Of course, that could lead to the 2 ganging up on the 3rd one. OK, im stuck. I just hate the 2 sides fight. Also, endless grinding is the worst.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
1 through 100) The constant comparison of one MMO to another. IE: People who won't play a game because its too much or not enough like "WoW." Honestly folks, give it a break, quit the forum bashing and doomsaying because of the success of 1 title...
101) Point n' Click Diablo-style movement
102) Having better gear overpowering skill. Success in games should be based on how well you play them, not how much time you can sit on your arse in front of the screen. When "gearing-up" becomes a grind, the fun is sucked from the game and turn in to an MMOGG, massively multiplayer online gear grind.
103) Would like to add: Radar. Radar is OK if it fits the theme, but do we really need to have our hands held to every single mob, quest drop-off point, city or town? Seems kind of Bizarre to be wacking each other over the head with swords, hammers and axes in our loin-cloths and leather armor, yet have the advanced technology to implement our own personal radar. Compasses and maps are ok as points of reference, but get rid of the hand-holding.
FFXI: Gauhar - Odin
stats..... I HATE seeing stats EVERYWHERE now, now I don't mind the basic D&D stuff because at least that makes enough sense not to hurt my head, but some of the stuff I see in chat or wherever is the type of stuff I'd expect you to look at in a basic programming course, not only that I don't like the really awkward pausing that a character does, now I'm not saying this is just for MMORPG's but for RTS' and RPG's as well, in RTS' I can see that the computer is desperately trying to calculate damage and attack power as you right click, same goes for RPG's, before I didn't mind because they didn't make it as obvious with the flashy animations but now because these games have all gotten so ridiculously simplistic it's close to unbearable.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
game that relies on dev content for end game.
Gear dependent stat progression
Non-degrading gear
Instanced content
One of the most horrible design mechanics developers add to the game is time spent = difficulty. For instance wows leveling is considered easy because its quicker to do than say vangaurds, guess what neither are bloody hard, or challenging in any way shape or form.
People say wows easy, why is that? because any idiot can play it? guess what every idiot can play any mmo if they actually have any common sense. I'm using wow as an example since its the most obvious example of games that take less time to do things but are no more difficult than the next game.
A difficult game should actually be that. The most difficult games in the world are also the some of the most popular, casual friendly etc see ninja gaiden series, people spend months upon months trying to complete those games, they do it because its fun, and challenging, not because the game is designed to purposely takes 500 plus hours to compete for the pure sake of making the game last longer so the developers can make more content and rake in the easy money subscription fees.
But developers don't do that they like to pull people along with a string, whats sad is the only reason they can do it in this genre is because the players let them, they rarely complain in the only way that counts by not playing all these crappy titles that just feature endless amounts of grinding with no challenge what so ever.
Why is it when designing mmos developers suddenly go from making games that are fun and last long because they are fun. To making games that are not fun are plagued with mindless copy and paste content just to make the content last long so they can collect your subscription fee or as a stop gap until their next bath of hamster on a wheel crap is added.
Has it not occurred to these guys that shock maybe if they design a fun game with very few features that you can do over and over again but remain fun each time as apposed to these games that are just plagued with content thats designed to be fun, then a huge grind with small pockets of fun to string you along.
These choices they make willingly, its a quick buck method of games development. Halo for example has a collective 25-30 hours of its single player campaign mode between all its games even if you account all the difficulty settings its still no more than 50 hours of 3 games, yet they have a multi player mode, with very few options that millions of people play constantly and have been doing for 4 years now, so why cant developers not do that for mmos? surely its easier to make games smaller yet have long lasting appeal due to simple yet fun gameplay.
Hell add a way of modding your game and watch how its made to last 10x longer. See the crappy oblivion and how it was saved due to that feature alone. these are single player games, with small multi player modes, some with none. So a game thats meant to be a MASSIVE, MULTIPLAYER GAME should last 10x as long if you just do the same thing on a larger scale.
At least some mmos are attempting this, like pirates of the burning sea for instance and its user created content, very small level grind, and pvp that requires tactics. I hope it does well just to prove you don't need 4 trillion kill x quests to have a game last for ages and have that massive feel.
1) forced raid progression
2) end-game only content additions
3) gear dependent character advancement
4) PVP as a grind
5) failure to allow for basic appearance customization
6) forced character specialization for content (warriors have to be tanks, priests have to heal etc.)
7) inflated economy to punish gold farmers that actually hurts casual non-farming gamers
8) trivialized older game content
9) lack of jumping / inability to climb over 2 ft tall wall