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Slowing becoming a WAR fan.
FE|Tachyon
Member UncommonPosts: 652
I've got to be honest, and please hear me out befor you flame anything I'm about to say, but I've not been looking forward to Warhammer until recently. I'd like to spell out some of my likes and dislikes, and get some comments on what other people think about my oppinion.
I LIKE ... The Charactor / Class Diversity. There seems to be a pretty good combination of different "THINGS" I can play as.
I LIKE ... The terrain looks like it could be stratigicly used to your advantage, with proper training, and teamwork.
I LIKE ... There doesn't seem to be a class that can drop another person in less then 10 seconds. No Lucky 3 Crits bring people down.
I DISLIKE ... The little arrow things around your charactor, Seems too much like a crutch.
I DISLIKE ... Healers will, just heal. Theres no innovation, nothing new or exciting about healers.. They JUST heal.
I DISLIKE ... The Lack of New TYPES, or Diversity of spells. Seems like a Bright Wizard uses the same 2 spells over and over and over again. Theres no variety in gameplay. Almost every cast of X spell does the same damage on the same target.
I DISLIKE ... The total lack of Innovation. This game seems to be a mixing bowl of ideas that are already in use in other games, although they seem well implimented, for somebody thats played most of the games out there this game could seem lackluster.
I WANT ... More Spells for each class, not just 1 thats better then the other, but different effects, so that not every Bright Wizard will attack in the same exact way as one another.
I WANT ... More to do, then just PvP/ PvE. Show me some Crafting, Show me Resource Gathering, Show me other Fun things to do. I want a presistant world where there are things to do, and fun to be had.
Comments
I have to agree with you. Lack of this game being an overall, thorough experience is why I am not spending $50 to buy it and $15 to $20 to subscribe to it. WAR is what it sounds like, PvP...that's all folks...just ganking the enemy. And we shall see how long this keeps everyone's attention.
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Wrong about the the healer just heal. Every healer has offensive spell or weapon and in order to heal more hp u need to do more dmg first. Crafting would be small part of the game b/c its WAR so expect something like alchemy and spellcraft from daoc.
Funny ppl raid same dung every day and they dont get tire of doing it? why should ppl get tire of killing diff ppl every day?
Currently Playing : WAR, UO, RL
I am kind of on the fence for this game too. At times it looks amazing, at other times, it looks not so great. I love PvP. I think a game needs some PvE or some sort of advancement, but not needed. Like how AC did it, with a a lvl 100 had an advantage over a lvl 70, but a 70 could win if he was the better player. I loved the politics in AC too. I loved how there were huge guilds that would own cities/hunting spots. I loved how there were small gangs of low levels in low level dungeons that would own those spots. It was just so awesome, without Turbine forcing you too.
If you have played any major MMO in the last couple of years then you basically know what you're waiting for when the next batch of games get released. There are no major games being produced that are really innovating the market, and technically I don't know what feasible elements people expect to see added. This potential worry/problem of WAR is not exclusive to just it but AOC, TCOS, G&H.. the list goes on.
Every game will be met with the same amount of criticism just as it will get bashed from parts of the community that truly believe that everything that is gaming originated with WoW.
Funny PPL don't TIRE of raiding the same Dungeon every day?? Are you delirious? The hell if they don't LoL. This your first MMO? Why do you think games put out expansions????? If what your saying is true, then Warhammer just got ruined for me.
I didn't say that Healers CAN'T do anything else, but they always END up just healing. Healing is very important in this game, because fights last so long, I like to win, but Im not rolling a healer class unless this changes.
I didn't say that Healers CAN'T do anything else, but they always END up just healing. Healing is very important in this game, because fights last so long, I like to win, but Im not rolling a healer class unless this changes.
All the healers that JUST heal will be the worst ones. In order to do the best heals you have to do damage.
Funny PPL don't TIRE of raiding the same Dungeon every day?? Are you delirious? The hell if they don't LoL. This your first MMO? Why do you think games put out expansions????? If what your saying is true, then Warhammer just got ruined for me.
Well in almost all vids we've seen the ppl playing are n00bs. From what they've said all along... healers standing in the back will not be as effective as healers who join in the fighting.
There's been so little about crafting, I'm also starting to fear it's gonna be mediocre at best. Oh well.
And yes ofc ppl tire of endless raiding and will probably tire of endless pvp. I dont like raiding at all myself coz every single time you face that one boss is exactly the same (save for some unexpected wipes). PvP encounters always have some minor difference which makes it abit more exciting imo (that and the fact that there's a player on the other side, duh, not some stupid AI). Also in WAR PvP is suppose to matter, world domination and zone control will shift (with what perks that might bring).
my I WANT: I want crafting to matter. I want some kind of economy. That's pretty much it. Everything else I've heard is either ok--->great. There wont be any 'perfect' MMO coming out soon, it's just a matter of what MMOs different kinds of ppl will settle for.
I'll just answer a few points.
"no 3-shotting" - I agree, this looks to be a very good thing.
"class variety" - I have my reservations about a couple of classes, but we'll see. They've clearly put a lot of effort into making them different, which is a good sign. And it worked in DAoC.
"arrow-circle-thing" - I quite like it. It's no more of a crutch than having your party members and target on the minimap, which most games do already. The circle is just easier on the eyes.
"just heal" - Problem is, we've only had footage from conventions, where people really don't know what they're doing. Every player I've seen has taken the healers and played them as either "only a healer", or "only a nuker". I think it's because the players don't know how to handle both at once just yet. The zealot players, in particular, don't seem to have a clue what to do. They seem to want to be ranged nukers - which is pretty far from the class description.
"spell variety" - I think mythic have made a mistake with the bright wizard, from a marketing point of view. It's easily the most simple class in the game, very "point and shoot" - but it also has the flashiest spells. Take these two together and you get what we've seen so far - lots of convention-goers choose the BW and just stand around shooting stuff. Not a great way to show off your pvp system, particularly since the simplicity seems to make the BW very effective in the hands of first-timers. I think they'd have been better off holding him back for a while.
"crafting" - This will turn up shortly, I think. They'll likely want to announce the final two classes before they show much about this.
I have to agree on your overall point, though - the game does seem more appealing as time goes on. I'd have played anyway just to have a good look around (having played WFRP in my youth), but I am of course hoping they come up with something good enough that I'll stick around after I've done the tourist thing.
I really wouldn't mind if healers just healed, or healed and buffed. I am a long time player of healer classes over a wide variety of MMOs and have played the healer class of almost any major mmo you can think of. My favorite classes being the Oracle of L2 and Healer of the Midgard realm in DAoC (Best healer in the realm plus major crowd control). If you actually have to attack or nuke before you can heal I don't think I would enjoy it as much, I understand standing in the back and healing can get boring so yes I do like having other things to do, but if you can't just heal as a healer then that takes away for me. Aside from that I think people are assuming way too much without having played the game. I personally prefer PvE to PvP but I love the PvP battlegrounds in DAoC. Try it before you bash it is all I have to say.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
I DISLIKE ... The little arrow things around your charactor, Seems too much like a crutch.
I like this. When you are staring at a 2d screen it can be difficult to have a good awareness of what is behind you. The arrows are not a crutch but rather a good simulation of a person's inherent ability to have a good sense of your surroundings. If I'm in a group I always have an idea of where everyone else is around me - sort of a constant picture in my mind. This is not really possible when staring at a monitor - there is not enough information coming in.
CRUTCH.
I DISLIKE ... Healers will, just heal. Theres no innovation, nothing new or exciting about healers.. They JUST heal.
This is just false. Healers actually do a whole lot more than heal. Some of them, in fact, need to fight before they can heal effectively. These healers do not just stand in the background - they have other jobs. The Warrior Priest gets better at defending his own allies as he smites his enemies. The archmage steals the mana of his enemies and turns it into healing and attack spells of his own. These healers are not like the healers in WoW or EQ.
Hybird Healers Yes, but they typicaly end up healing themselfs not healing a whole team.
I DISLIKE ... The Lack of New TYPES, or Diversity of spells. Seems like a Bright Wizard uses the same 2 spells over and over and over again. Theres no variety in gameplay. Almost every cast of X spell does the same damage on the same target.
How do you know this. If you are in the beta then you really shouldn't be discussing this. if you are basing it on videos then you are misisng out on a lot of information - you are making assumptions. Wait until you play to make a statement like this.
As for spells doing the same damage to the same target - this is pretty standard and expected. In fact, it is better than some widely varied amount of damage as it actually lets you plan your strategy around your known abilities.
Well I guess we really don't need to fight then, we can just do the math and see who would win? LoL There needs to be some Variety in damage.
I DISLIKE ... The total lack of Innovation. This game seems to be a mixing bowl of ideas that are already in use in other games, although they seem well implimented, for somebody thats played most of the games out there this game could seem lackluster.
There is an old addage - better safe than sorry. While I can't argue that new ideas would be cool I can't blame a developer who is risking millions of dollars of not ranging too far wide from what is known to work and is popular. Instead, you improve upon what is already out there.
In addition, I really can't think of anything 'new' and 'exciting' that would be appropriate to the style of game they are creating. Do you have any ideas of what you would like to see here?
I Like AOC's take on Spell Casting, and Spell Weaving. I like the old Mount & Blade type of Ranged Combat.
I WANT ... More Spells for each class, not just 1 thats better then the other, but different effects, so that not every Bright Wizard will attack in the same exact way as one another.
Again, you really cannot judge this unless you are in beta. A little bit of time spent at a computer at a show does not give you enough information to really say for certain if they need more or if what they provide enough. The problem with what you are proposing here is that what will invariably happen is the 'best' spell will become public knowledge and that is what will get spammed. It does not matter if they have hundreds of spells at each level. The best one will be found and used. It happens in every game out there.
I can judge. Watch videos of PvP. Same spell 7 times in a row, doesn't seem fun. Even if I wasn't in Beta I could still tell that 1 class uses 1-2 spells 90% of the time. I'm not saying I am or am NOT in beta.
I WANT ... More to do, then just PvP/ PvE. Show me some Crafting, Show me Resource Gathering, Show me other Fun things to do. I want a presistant world where there are things to do, and fun to be had.
You would be the first person I know who can actually say that crafting is fun after the initial shininess of doing it wears off. Killings things is fun. I also recall statements being made that crafting and gathering is in the game - they are just waiting until the systems are more in place to reveal them. I could be wrong here but I'm pretty sure you will have the opportunity to craft until your fingers are numb.
Variety is the spice of life my son. If all you can do is kill people / things, your MMO won't last long.
its beta.
that means that there are loads of new abilities that fans have no idea if they exist or not, look at "feed my god" for example: "channelled spell that causes damage, if target dies while feed my god is being channelled, a pink horror emerges from the corpse". that seems pretty good, but im going to hold off until the NDA is dropped before i start worrying about lack of abilities or lack of innovation.
it also means that from all the videos we have seen, nobody has played their class for very long, so they fall back on mmo standards. ie. healers just heal.
i see your points, and im glad you're a bit more willing to give the game a second look, but its really too early for any of the dislikes (or the likes for that matter) to be legitimate issues. i like the concept, ill wait and see on the implementation.
I dunno what lvl they are suppose to be =P but there's not really much spells early on, like any game. Lvling my WoW warlock there's just shadowbolt up til lvl 4... so thats what, 200 shadowbolts in a row? haha
no not fun at all. I hope there's some variety at higher lvls, and for the luv of god gief some useful spells it's very annoying having half your bars filled with bullshit abilities that are so situational u are lucky to use them twice a day 
For once I can actually see what FETachyon is talking about. Quite honestly the longer I read about WAR and the more I find out the less inclined I am to want to play this game. A friend of mine had the Beta and I was allowed to run around on a character of my choosing for about 1 week. For the first day, maybe 2 it was fun but the longer I went at it the less I wanted to play it. Eventually neither I, nor my friend use the account anymore. We just let random friends try it if they want to but even they get tired of it in a matter of days.
I hope all the people looking forward to this game get what they expect. I for one will perhaps give it a try once it's out and established but I will not raise my hopes very high.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Funny PPL don't TIRE of raiding the same Dungeon every day?? Are you delirious? The hell if they don't LoL. This your first MMO? Why do you think games put out expansions????? If what your saying is true, then Warhammer just got ruined for me.
sounds like this is ur first mmo. yeah u watch alot of videos of ppl get their hands on the toon for the first time at the convention and u expect them to play like they are the vet? hello, u bitch about everything on every forum, why dont u just stick to the console game so u can save and reload. Such a cry baby u are.*Gazes at Jor's post, then at Tac* damn he ... so pwn'd you lol. Honestly why don't you go back to the AoC forums that seems to be where you love being so much according to the list of your threads lol. I mean hell you pretty much cried over there not being stealth which makes me wonder if at this point your just trolling.
With it in early stages of beta's its really to early to form educated opinions on anything. Personally I'm excited about Warhammer and Im curious to know what they still have hidden from us because there are alot of game aspects they've purposely kept hidden including crafting.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
Looks like the AoC boards need to start keeping a shorter leash on their pets.
I avoid spending too much effort on well established trolls 'pretending' to have been interested in the game despite many posts showing otherwise, but for the sake of the rest of the playerbase who are unfamiliar with your past behavior, I will give it a whirl.
The arrows on the targetting reticule is a new and useful innovation. You call it a crutch... kind of like how AoC has an indicator that tells you exactly what to press to do combos? lol. THAT is a crutch my friend. Arrows do not show up unless you have an enemy already targetted, so its hardly giving you information that you can't already find out. It just lets you know it faster so you can focus on what really matters - killing. They have the same kind of targetting and you call it a clone. They put in new kind of targetting you call it a crutch. Lets be honest - you just make up nonsense things complain about.
Your healing point is entirely made up, given that has been well established by the devs for a while now that you can not heal effectively unless you fight. There are no dedicated healers. There isn't any more that needs to be said on that one.
Your comment about the types or diversity of spells. I didn't realize that a complete skill list was revealed. Can you toss me a link, chief? Also, you cite the bright wizard, who specializes in fire. So are you complaining that all of his spells appear to be FIRE based? Geez who could have predicted that. Seems like there are lots of variety to me, and I only know a small fraction of what has been released in videos, most of which are with low level players. All things considered, no matter what mmorpg you see, every move will be based on basic archetypes. Direct Damage, crowd control, healing. You aren't going to get anything more or less diverse than any other game.
Your point about innovation... well I don't know if I trust you on that one given that you already criticized the radar innovation. But lets presume you weren't hypocritical on that point. Newness for only newness sake is not a good thing. Newness to fix a problem with the old - that is much better. There are many tried and true systems out there that work well and that a lot of people like. Those are being incorporated in the game in some form. As has been said many times, this game is not meant to be revolutionary, it is evolutionary. Its taking what we are already familiar with and making it better. I've played most of the games out there myself, and have played mmorpgs since the original AOL version of neverwinter nights, and i see absolutely nothing lackluster with what they are doing. Perhaps your problem has nothing to do with your supposed experience and more to do with your attitude and personal preferences.
Your last point is the only one that really has any substantial merit - we definitely need to see the details on crafting, both the act of crafting and the material gathering for it. I am hoping this months newsletter addresses this problem.
Sort of a wolf in sheep's clothing, here.
"I am a WAR fan, and like this and this, but totally hate this, that, and that, and this, and ten other things, and will flame and laugh if you disagree with me."
That pretty much sums this thread up. It is a classic move of subterfuge. You come in disguised as a fan, post some trollish material, then fuel a little war. You can tell because most of the dislikes/wants contradict what is true about the game (as much as we can know), and overlooks the fact the game is beta.
Also, read the AoC forums - massive fanboy. Debating him is useless.
I like WAR too.
yes, now that you mention it i do remember this guy. perhaps hes actually serious? benefit of the doubt and all that.
I think that logic is flawed. "In the end healers heal." Well yeah... Thats their whole point. They wouldn't be called healers if at the end of everything they're nuking people. I saw on videos a good amount of attack and heal combination. But yes the healers will technically be doing more healing then damage. That's kinda how it goes. You see someone near death you try to heal them.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
So to be fair I think we should give Tac the beeifit of the doubt.
On the other hand his statements seem to be almost all all based on HIS OPINIONS not on actual fact.
A) Healers will not be just healers. Period. They are not just hybrids who will heal themselves. This has been repeated many times by the developters. Your best heals and you buffs are all dependent on you attacking other players. No attacks mean no heavy heals or buffs. Kind of hard being a robot healer/buffbot when you can barely heal and can't buff because your not doing damage.
All of Tacs statements were based on his opinions. If he had researched the matter maybe he would have known better. If his intention was to troll then it did not work very well, only one other person really agreed with him at all on any of his points.
So to be fair I think we should give Tac the beeifit of the doubt.
On the other hand his statements seem to be almost all all based on HIS OPINIONS not on actual fact.
A) Healers will not be just healers. Period. They are not just hybrids who will heal themselves. This has been repeated many times by the developters. Your best heals and you buffs are all dependent on you attacking other players. No attacks mean no heavy heals or buffs. Kind of hard being a robot healer/buffbot when you can barely heal and can't buff because your not doing damage.
All of Tacs statements were based on his opinions. If he had researched the matter maybe he would have known better. If his intention was to troll then it did not work very well, only one other person really agreed with him at all on any of his points.
From his answers to several other posters it seems he's not even reasoning about people's replies. He just took/offered the bait and turned the thread into a quote war. Several posters put forward (and even repeated) the very sensible idea that the existent videos are comprised of convention people who are used to playing games primarily similar to World of Warcraft, in which healers, after the first ten or fifteen levels, become only that, leaving behind any trace of combat coolness they might have had at the beginning. So, when these persons are faced with a hybrid improved upon the City of Heroes model when it comes to synergy of aggressive and defensive combat, they don't know what to do, and concentrate on the most familiar and common element: healing. I agreed with the OP at first in this respect, but this idea seems very reasonable and has turned my dislike back into expectation. But it seems that the OP is set upon his "facts" and is unwilling to think about what other people tell him... so why even bother?