Talking of Hype, the dev companies that made Guild Wars and that made WoW were also the same guys that made Diablo 1/2.
The question is, were they the texture artists, the play testers, the janitors, or the netcoders? The guy that did the photocopying on Diablo 1 was still part fo the team.
The guys who are making Hellgate London are the primary developers and producers of D1/D2, such as Bill Roper and friends. They were actually a seperate company before Blizzard bought them (thus Blizzard North), and these primary devs then left Blizzard to form flagship studios before the D2 1.10 patch. So although some scrub who made some terrain may have indeed worked on other Blizzard games, the creative force behind D1/D2 left and has had no participation in any future games, particularly wow. They also have no participation whatsoever in Guild Wars.
Phantasy Star Universe has both off-line portions as well as MMORPG play.
Personally, it odesn't make a difference. If this site chooses not to list it, oh well. There are a lot of games they choose not to throw on that little list to the left.
As far as a definitive definition of what and what isn't an "MMORPG", its anyones guess. There is no exact, formal criteria to meet.
"massive" is a subjective term. The more important question really is, does the game have any persistent qualities. (world, characters/ character building / dynamic impact ...) That is what truly seperates MMORPG's from other genres. "More players" hasn't necessarily brought better gaming to MMORPG's.
People have been arguing about this for years. The term MMORPG, I believe was first used as a "marketing buzz word". (Meridian 59 I think?)
Alright Everyone Im here to end this sorry debate,
Look, when MMO's were first made, what was the original intent?
We dont know, cause none of us have created one of the founding MMO's. If I was so say one thing though it would be to make a community.
When everquest was made Im sure the developers wernt thinking to themselves, "Lets make a kickass RPG!" They were thinking "Lets make a world were our imaginations run wild, and other people can come and communicate and be a part of our world with us!"
They were visionaries who sought to make another world beyond ours, where you were capable of living somewhere else, an escape.
Now Hell Gate London from what I have read, will make for a great community game, just like the MMO fore-fathers invisioned, it will have all the wonderful things that we look for in a MMO.
ITs got the questing, the dungeons, the player housing, the guilds, its got it all!!
But theres just one thing,
Its not an MMO. I know its sad because if it were branded an MMO, it would probably be one of the best out there. But the simple fact is, people are not going to buy it just to play the multiplayer, because it is a secondary feature.
The game is not Massive in Scale because the multiplayer, is just the singleplayer but with friends. The game is not build to last you years and years of play, which is the intent of MMO's.
Does that mean that people wont be playing it for years?
No of course not, i probably will, I think it looks amazing, but you just have to go with the facts.
Which all the facts you listed are flawed,
If you show me proof that:
2- It is heavily instanced, aside from some Hubs that can hold hundreds of people
Because according to 1up.com on there information about the game it says 32 players, just like neverwinter and all the other RPG that are not MMOs.
3- It has an optional monthly fee that includes patches, new classes, new instances etc. etc.
Where they stated the new classes and new instances?
8- Raids
LAWLS!
and of course
9- Each server can hold around 10k people
Wow, I mean I have friends who go over the edge and make up little white lies to make a game sound cooler than it really is, but seriously that number is completely thrown out there to make your argument seem more plausible.
There is seriously nothing on any site ever that has said that, and by god you know that yourself.
I have no idea where you got your information from but I have every trailer ever made, read every pre-review, interview and such. Please tell me your source because I'd like to know where those wrong rumors started.
A: A server is a collection of computers hosting the game. Players select a server when they create an account and can interact with all other players on the same server. A single server supports hundreds of thousands to millions of players.
he explained that Flagship won't have much time to rest because the company plans to create a steady stream of new content for subscribers in the form of monthly and quarterly updates to the game.
The best way to really think about it is that when you buy the box you're getting the standalone single-player game. You can also then go online, be playing our client server on our servers. We're hosting you
The Hellgate: London secure online experience is structured around shared, multi-player towns linking together randomly generated, “instanced” adventure areas, unique for a single-player or group of players. Both free players and subscribers will be playing together in groups and guilds on huge realms supporting tens of thousands of players simultaneously.
.. tired of digging, just reread over 20 pages of information on different website on it. If you want more, check for yourself
I don't know what 1up says, but this '32 players' number they are saying, is wrong. 100% wrong.
If you want something besides that article I would have you read many of the dev interviews, the Bill Roper interviews. Hell check out the latest gamespy previews:
"To start, it's worth noting that what we're testing is a multiplayer beta. You'll be able to play Hellgate as a single-player RPG, but in this format, it's more like an MMO: you create an account and connect to the beta servers; the actual gameplay and questing areas are instanced, but connected via hubs where you can see tons of other players walking around, interacting with NPCs, chatting with each other or forming parties. "
I think many of those that are supporting this game HAVE read the interviews, seen the video interviews.
The only requirement of being an MMORPG is that the world is persistent (this means that even if the players all logged off the world will still exist) and it has massive amount of players online playing it on a shared world. It doesn't matter if the world is chopped up with multiple instances (guildwars, phantasy star online) or has a massive shared areas (EQ,WoW). Take a good look at guild wars and Phantasy star online. MMORPG.com would be doing the industry a disservice if they don't put Hellgate London on the list.
Talking of Hype, the dev companies that made Guild Wars and that made WoW were also the same guys that made Diablo 1/2.
The question is, were they the texture artists, the play testers, the janitors, or the netcoders?
The guy that did the photocopying on Diablo 1 was still part fo the team.
The developers of the Diablo games are the primary members of the FSS/Hellgate staff.
The people who developed the Battle.net system for Blizzard left and formed Arenanet, which made Guild Wars.
Another group that left Blizzard formed a company called Castaway Entertainment, which has yet to release a game. If you visit the website, it has some concept art that has been up for a few years now.
imo
persistant world = MMO
otherwise, it's just an RPG.
I think that is a valid definition, but it would exclude GW (although GW 2 is supposed have a persistent world). The issue here is consistency. If GW is in, HG should be. If HG is out, GW should be, too.
It appears that this issue has been resolved, but I believe that the dicussion is still a valid one, because another game is going to come along at some point that occupies that grey area, especially with game companies seeing the profit potential of reaching the largely untapped casual gaming market.
Comments
imo
persistant world = MMO
otherwise, it's just an RPG.
The guys who are making Hellgate London are the primary developers and producers of D1/D2, such as Bill Roper and friends. They were actually a seperate company before Blizzard bought them (thus Blizzard North), and these primary devs then left Blizzard to form flagship studios before the D2 1.10 patch. So although some scrub who made some terrain may have indeed worked on other Blizzard games, the creative force behind D1/D2 left and has had no participation in any future games, particularly wow. They also have no participation whatsoever in Guild Wars.
Even Bill Roper, CEO of Flagship Studios (the company that makes the game) and former Blizzard employee, call HGL an MMO>
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Phantasy Star Universe has both off-line portions as well as MMORPG play.
Personally, it odesn't make a difference. If this site chooses not to list it, oh well. There are a lot of games they choose not to throw on that little list to the left.
As far as a definitive definition of what and what isn't an "MMORPG", its anyones guess. There is no exact, formal criteria to meet.
"massive" is a subjective term. The more important question really is, does the game have any persistent qualities. (world, characters/ character building / dynamic impact ...) That is what truly seperates MMORPG's from other genres. "More players" hasn't necessarily brought better gaming to MMORPG's.
People have been arguing about this for years. The term MMORPG, I believe was first used as a "marketing buzz word". (Meridian 59 I think?)
BUMP
See my edit on the first post to understand why
Alright Everyone Im here to end this sorry debate,
Look, when MMO's were first made, what was the original intent?
We dont know, cause none of us have created one of the founding MMO's. If I was so say one thing though it would be to make a community.
When everquest was made Im sure the developers wernt thinking to themselves, "Lets make a kickass RPG!" They were thinking "Lets make a world were our imaginations run wild, and other people can come and communicate and be a part of our world with us!"
They were visionaries who sought to make another world beyond ours, where you were capable of living somewhere else, an escape.
Now Hell Gate London from what I have read, will make for a great community game, just like the MMO fore-fathers invisioned, it will have all the wonderful things that we look for in a MMO.
ITs got the questing, the dungeons, the player housing, the guilds, its got it all!!
But theres just one thing,
Its not an MMO. I know its sad because if it were branded an MMO, it would probably be one of the best out there. But the simple fact is, people are not going to buy it just to play the multiplayer, because it is a secondary feature.
The game is not Massive in Scale because the multiplayer, is just the singleplayer but with friends. The game is not build to last you years and years of play, which is the intent of MMO's.
Does that mean that people wont be playing it for years?
No of course not, i probably will, I think it looks amazing, but you just have to go with the facts.
Which all the facts you listed are flawed,
If you show me proof that:
2- It is heavily instanced, aside from some Hubs that can hold hundreds of people
Because according to 1up.com on there information about the game it says 32 players, just like neverwinter and all the other RPG that are not MMOs.
3- It has an optional monthly fee that includes patches, new classes, new instances etc. etc.
Where they stated the new classes and new instances?
8- Raids
LAWLS!
and of course
9- Each server can hold around 10k people
Wow, I mean I have friends who go over the edge and make up little white lies to make a game sound cooler than it really is, but seriously that number is completely thrown out there to make your argument seem more plausible.
There is seriously nothing on any site ever that has said that, and by god you know that yourself.
-Jive
... your a strange fella
I have no idea where you got your information from but I have every trailer ever made, read every pre-review, interview and such. Please tell me your source because I'd like to know where those wrong rumors started.
http://www.hellgateguru.com/gurufaq
2.11.11 Will HGL feature raids?
Yes.
http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground/multiplayer-faq
: What is a server anyway?
A: A server is a collection of computers hosting the game. Players select a server when they create an account and can interact with all other players on the same server. A single server supports hundreds of thousands to millions of players.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/hellgatelondon/news.html?sid=6163906&mode=previews
he explained that Flagship won't have much time to rest because the company plans to create a steady stream of new content for subscribers in the form of monthly and quarterly updates to the game.
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/09/11/the-bill-roper-interview-part-ii.aspx
The best way to really think about it is that when you buy the box you're getting the standalone single-player game. You can also then go online, be playing our client server on our servers. We're hosting you
http://www.hellgatelondon.com/underground?page=7
The Hellgate: London secure online experience is structured around shared, multi-player towns linking together randomly generated, “instanced” adventure areas, unique for a single-player or group of players. Both free players and subscribers will be playing together in groups and guilds on huge realms supporting tens of thousands of players simultaneously.
.. tired of digging, just reread over 20 pages of information on different website on it. If you want more, check for yourself
I don't know what 1up says, but this '32 players' number they are saying, is wrong. 100% wrong.
If you want something besides that article I would have you read many of the dev interviews, the Bill Roper interviews. Hell check out the latest gamespy previews:
Gamespy Preview Sept 28 2007
"To start, it's worth noting that what we're testing is a multiplayer beta. You'll be able to play Hellgate as a single-player RPG, but in this format, it's more like an MMO: you create an account and connect to the beta servers; the actual gameplay and questing areas are instanced, but connected via hubs where you can see tons of other players walking around, interacting with NPCs, chatting with each other or forming parties. "
I think many of those that are supporting this game HAVE read the interviews, seen the video interviews.
Gamespot 07 interview
gamespot 07 interview
Tyler Thompson E3 07 interview
Bill Roper April 07 interview
David Brevik interview April 07
As for 1up.com : I'm not sure why they have '32 players' listed. It is factually wrong.
The only requirement of being an MMORPG is that the world is persistent (this means that even if the players all logged off the world will still exist) and it has massive amount of players online playing it on a shared world. It doesn't matter if the world is chopped up with multiple instances (guildwars, phantasy star online) or has a massive shared areas (EQ,WoW). Take a good look at guild wars and Phantasy star online. MMORPG.com would be doing the industry a disservice if they don't put Hellgate London on the list.
Good news
I got an answer from the editor of the website
"We are currently in the process of getting this game added and are awaiting a response from the Hellgate Dev Team."
Sweet, good job man.
The developers of the Diablo games are the primary members of the FSS/Hellgate staff.
The people who developed the Battle.net system for Blizzard left and formed Arenanet, which made Guild Wars.
Another group that left Blizzard formed a company called Castaway Entertainment, which has yet to release a game. If you visit the website, it has some concept art that has been up for a few years now.
I think that is a valid definition, but it would exclude GW (although GW 2 is supposed have a persistent world). The issue here is consistency. If GW is in, HG should be. If HG is out, GW should be, too.
It appears that this issue has been resolved, but I believe that the dicussion is still a valid one, because another game is going to come along at some point that occupies that grey area, especially with game companies seeing the profit potential of reaching the largely untapped casual gaming market.
Does it really matter weather its a true MMO or a pseudo MMO. It is simmilar to Guild Wars in its design as far persistent areas.
What I do know is I played a few hours on a friends beta and it was Really Fun.
I hope to see it on this site. If not what ever, this sites loss.
I've been craving a non fantasy setting and here it is. Should keep me occupied a while.
Asheron's Call, Champions Online, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest, Lineage 2, Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft.Waiting for SWTOR
cant wait for this game
didnt know it had player housing :0
I hope they add it soon