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You cried for change, now you've cried again
sololoco
Member Posts: 542
I know all about SWG and what SOE did with the changing of the old galaxies into this new dumb version they have now. I was there from start until the new game was implemented. How they screwed up the galaxies of old with this stupid NGE.
With this said I also know many of you guys who now blast SOE for the game they now call SWG are partly responsible for this happening. I remember many of you frequented the forums in the game and constantly called for a new combat system. How many would cry about this and that and fought for change when all that was needed were minor fixes to certain areas and not the entire system.
So many of you have no justification in coming out or having come out to bitch on how SOE changed and destroyed the old Galaxies. Many of you are partly responsible for this yourselves.
Comments
TUCHE everyone wants change without change!!!
And that is exactly what SOE HAS NOT figured out, even now.
The forums are trolled by the same people constantly adding their individual ideas to the mix. Some can be good, but........
Most of the people who are satified are playing rather than trolling. There has been post after post made on the SWB forums, even today, of the very same statement above. Usually, most players don't get wind of a change until it hits live, then its either like it or leave it. I played SWG for a year before even thinking about the forums cept for the occasional looking up a guide. Didn't make a post until C6CD was in test.
On the SWG forums, the concensus seems to be that a poll listed on the "log-in" page would be just about the best way to form opinions on what the majority of the player base wants, Maybe even a better way, would be, the "devs" HAVE to play the game, and out in the open.
Yeah, there were people clammoring for change.
But a lot of the "change" they wanted was from non-polish to polish, from bugginess to non-bugginess.
The SWG devs listened the most to the people who got pwned in a duel and demanded "balance"; that is, that their toon always win.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Change is good where needed. Change is not good where it's not needed like in the revamping of the complete game as SOE did. SWG only needed fixes in certain areas like Combat Medic and a few others not how it was done. They pulled the game from under its players and replaced it with what you see now. Is this what was needed? Pleaseee!!!
There's a big difference in what was needed and what they did. But now many of the ones who wanted complete change will defend calling for it.
I’m not sure I agree with this. If the two of us are sitting in the backseat of a car and you yell to the driver “Turn left” and I yell “No, turn right,” and the driver turns right and rolls off a cliff, am I responsible? Shouldn’t the driver a) know where he's going and, b) have seen the cliff and told me to shut the hell up?
The same holds here. While some players hold the interest of the game over their personal interests, most players are going to scream for what benefits them most. It is the Dev’s responsibility to have a solid vision to guide the game and help sift through the chaff. I never saw a vision in SWG once Koster left.
The car was driven by a blind man and went off the cliff, with players in the backseat screaming the whole way down.
I can't really say anyone asked for the NGE. I was on the forums quite a bit of the time back then, and I don't remember many posts about wanting them to change the core combat mechanics. Noone asked for the NGE. Everyone wanted quests fixed, and balance. Maybe not to run through walls so much, and things like that. We definitely didn't say "Hey lets take out all the classes and put in crappy hybrids of them all!"
Not to mention if you look at the other posts, specifically Smedleys apology, you'll see that he states clearly he didn't listen to the fanbase. That's why we've "cried" as you say.
And as for balance, yeah alot of jedi who spent all their time getting to that point obviously didn't like it when they were tracked and attacked by bounty hunters. I was a bounty hunter, and I hated it when I had to find a jedi and he'd beat me, that's just how it is, one side wins, the other side loses, and vice versa. Either way everyone complained. But that didn't give them a right to change everything.
And I recall how the devs ignored those inventories of solid concepts. They went instead for the shallow and simple and selfish ideas screamed out by those who seemed incapable of reasoned debate.
I agree with tman5.......
When Raph Koster left so did SWG.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
All tho i have never posted on SWG forums i was a lurker (learned a lot through the guides and found out what resources were spawning make some creds hunting and throwing down some harvies) and i do know about the forum whiners they were long and windy.
But when has SOE listened to the players in order to make there desicions? I saw dozens of good ideas proposed by players but never saw 1 implemented. The players asked that the CU not go live, it was not ready. Did SOE listen?
And they were right it was a bugged up mess with too many radical changes for me to stay with.( whoever thought denying wookies the right to wear the hunting armor that cost over 500k unless they were a BH just was not thinking right among other things) I was a simple hunter, Armor like that meant a lot of dead critters. A whole lot... seems they were pointing the way to the 10 iconic proffesions and as a good ranger i read the wind and left the game.
The numbers spoke for themselves and they then put in more WOW like elements to bring in the mindless WOW drones. They sure as ---- did not listen to the forum whiners about a rollback or fixing the CU. And they screwed it up but good just like they screwed the game up since before launch. It seems they are incapable of doing anything right. For forum whiners and nonforum whiners alike.
Now some may argue the game is better but it will not be the game we purchased so that is comparing apples and oranges.
Seems to me we are all in the same boat or in the same rebellion against the same empire. So yell as much as you want forum whiners its music to my ears .. Sure not all the rebels were the best people but they were all you had and were committed to the same goal so Whine on fight the good fight until VS day.
i will have to respectfully disagree about forum whining bearing any part of it, more like WOW envy and LA demands for more revenue.
That is false. People can say what they want onthe forums; only a developer with a lack of vision can destroy a game. personally, I never posted until they destroyed the game for the first time with the CU...but I'll never blame unsatisfied customers voicing their opinion for what happened. Nope. Doesn't wash.
Smedley and company are fully responsible, not the customers.
fishermage.blogspot.com
They only listened to the ones they wanted to anyway. They were told, in specifics, what C6 Combat Downgrade would end up being while it was on Test and Test Center. They were told of canceled subs. They were told that their players would have problems with it for times to come. (Such as the thread going on for 4 months with NO sign of slowing down) Etc, Etc. They knew best.
Right ( / sarcasm )
It would seem if you want something you go to the SWG forums and say how the developer and head designer can do no wrong. They'll listen to that.
Hubris. Good word!
They only listened to the ones they wanted to anyway. They were told, in specifics, what C6 Combat Downgrade would end up being while it was on Test and Test Center. They were told of canceled subs. They were told that their players would have problems with it for times to come. (Such as the thread going on for 4 months with NO sign of slowing down) Etc, Etc. They knew best.
Right ( / sarcasm )
It would seem if you want something you go to the SWG forums and say how the developer and head designer can do no wrong. They'll listen to that.
Hubris. Good word!
I enjoy the c6 upgrade , it's made combat alot more enjoyable and challenging.
We wanted a change for the better, not this abomination.
I also remember the cries for nerfs, changes, balanceing, bug fixes, the old game was so terribly unbalanced it wasn't a wonder when people started leaving, LA had to do something fast.
Smedstar just admitted they give s*t about player opinions and here is a discuss about player are partly to blame for the changes ?
noone else see a weak point point ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
I never felt I needed anything balanced myself, probably because I was a PvE'er and rarely PvP'ed. Now I totally understand that some professions didn't even have some of their skills funtioning properly, and that a fix was needed for them. That is just from my perspective.
But as for the people leaving I believe it had more to do with the seemingly inactive development that was happening, and that we now understand was a dev team not bothering with changing things that were not going to be included with the NGE. Why waste development time on things that were being removed or drastically altered?
Which brings me to another point. I remember being frustrated at not having many things addressed which desperately needed addressing, yet frivolous and trivial things were being introuduced at what I felt was an alarming rate. We were given the explanation that there were different development teams working on different things, which implies to me a wasteful and ineffective managerial team that couldn't set priorities.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
To give you a small example as a Rifleman i wanted my damn Surpriseshot working properly and not my Rifleman extinct. You get it ?Aye. Fixes, balances and debugging is expected when trying to polish a game that has been released too early. Totally re-engineering the game that negated the playerbase's time, effort and even their toons' professions was NEVER asked for.
So players leaving early on in SWG justified the implementation of two total game revamps, the last one causing more than 200k players to bail out (and not come back in any appreciable number)? Don't think so. The ghost servers speak volumes.
Are you listening to yourself? Okay this is exactly what happened.
Us: "Uhm, Hi, yes SOE I'd like you to change the Bounty Hunter profession so that it balances with the Jedi we're supposed to kill"
SOE: "What you say you want change? Oh, I'll show you change!"
They did whatever they thought would make the game better not what we asked them to do. We didn't say CHANGE the WHOLE game, take away 60% of our professions, and make all of our time seem like a waste. Collectively people asked for certain things. For years they ignored us, because they had an idiotic vision in their head of the millions of people who would flock to this ridiculous idea.
Jedi was a class worth making. It correlated with the movies on how tough it was to become a jedi, and how there wasn't a jedi around every corner. Now jedi come a dime a dozen. That is not Star Warsy. They gambled on what didn't need to be a gamble. Smedley said he didn't listen to the community, the SWG community, he listened to the WoW community, or the CoH community or the EQ community. Well what he got for listening to them was a sharp decrease in subscribers. Now he knows he screwed up after all this time, and it's too late, but don't suggest that we brought the NGE on. That was SOE all by themselves.
Jedi should've never even been an issue in SWG, if SOE had stuck by their original guns by making Jedi extremely rare this never would've been an issue. However they refused to add content and then decided to basically 'give away' the Jedi class. Not every person in SWG cared about getting a Jedi, there was more enough to do until a certain point but because SOE put such an emphasis on 'Here comes the Jedi grind' you saw that nearly everyone was doing it. SOE promoted the Jedi class being the 'endgame' instead of actually adding content to become the endgame.
If not becoming a Jedi killed your game experience that's fine, some games are not for everyone especially those who just can't not be the 'uber class'. There was more than enough to do Pre-CU, SOE just dropped the ball on adding any content at all.
I’m not sure I agree with this. If the two of us are sitting in the backseat of a car and you yell to the driver “Turn left” and I yell “No, turn right,” and the driver turns right and rolls off a cliff, am I responsible? Shouldn’t the driver a) know where he's going and, b) have seen the cliff and told me to shut the hell up?
The same holds here. While some players hold the interest of the game over their personal interests, most players are going to scream for what benefits them most. It is the Dev’s responsibility to have a solid vision to guide the game and help sift through the chaff. I never saw a vision in SWG once Koster left.
The car was driven by a blind man and went off the cliff, with players in the backseat screaming the whole way down.
very well put
i posted on SWG forums alot... and I disagree with you. 99% of what ppl asked for was Bug fixes
thats not tha same as asking for a full game engine revamp you imply. PPl asked for certain alteration to fit into the cannon of SW storylines...
No one ever asked .. SOE please make us a 8 class level up WOW clone !!! cause I really have a Luke skywalker wanna be fetish and be the biggest cry baby in SCI FI movie history. Or Han Solo the only guy to chase a girl for 10 years and only ever get a kiss.
we only wanted more ways to enjoy the world we were making, the stories we were writting and telling in our own ways with our friends. SOE wanted the 8 million subs Blizz had (at the time).
NGE = New Greed Enhancment
Miataka (+many sub variation of that)
~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA)
MiaTaka
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-Mia- takahashi
~SWG (Europe-chimaera)
Miataki Valeinca
~EQ 2 (everfrost)
MiaTaka Soyinka
~Second Life
Spot on!
In fact it was the horrible CU (/spit-over-shoulder) that more or less forced me to sign up for the SWG forums. I tried to do my part to protest the CU going live, but that was all in vain. Before the CU I never had reason to go to the forums, I was busy playing the game
.