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Vindvalya
Member Posts: 115
I have read numerous posts claiming COH lacks content so I thought I would address them all.
CoH has more content at release than any MMORPG I have heard of. It is also significant content, instead of flat content.(let me explain)
In a game like EQ or DAOC content is having a different skin on a creature while changing very little else. In CoH content is having completely different factions that have significant strengths and weaknesses that can change how you fight them.
For example the Vahz has weak AI but if you do not know how to exploit it you are in trouble. CoT have exploding mages that require some serious consideration. Clocks have end reducing attacks that can be a real pain. Even the most basic units, Hellions and Skulls have differences.
Now these things may not seem impressive but these differences are right away. You do not fight rats and weak skeletons for 2 days before you get to them.
Now I think back to DAOC where I was fighting all the way up to level 50 mobs that were only slightly different than the mobs I have been fighting since day one. Sure they have new skins but little else has changed.
Not to mention CoH offers more varied abilities than any MMORPG I have played. Some of the more unique abilities include Hurricane, Gale, Rain of Fire, Freezing Rain, Rad Infection, Fallout, Quicksand, Snow Storm, and many more. (I didn't even mention travel powers)
Now CoH may not be for everyone but that can be said for any game.
Comments
Content is being able to go on specific quest for your profession or class
Content is being able to go in specific static dungeons that are for certain levels
Content is being able Craft if your into that
Content is being able to PVP if your into that
Content is being able to further and enhance your char through equipment, armor, implants, merit boards, ect
Content is allowing items in the game so that people can have different builds for there own toon if they so choose.
Content is player housing
Content is player inventories
Content is Shops
Content is Vehicles
Content is real pets not some knockoff of another Archtypes armor (see Jackfrost, Dark Servent, and the Stone pet in this game, horrible and lazy design for pets)
Thats what content is, all of that is missing in this game
Being able to cast a Gale Storm while the other Defender can Cast a Repel sheild is not content. And if you think your going to play this game without seeing 50 other defenders that can cast a Gale Storm or Repel think agian (those are just examples)... No matter how you switch your primary and secondary skills around your still going to see others who have the exact same setup as you...And Ehancements are just not enough...
P.S And for those of you that say the PVP expansion will bring PVP, housing and maybe Vehicles... I say the game should have launched with that already in it...They dropped the ball on this one they could have had a jewel..Not many will wait for the 2005 (6 months away atleast) of the Expansion, as a matter of fact come 6 months from now you might hear "COH, whats that?"
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
CoH is a good game, but compared to the other MMOs released to date, CoH has very little content. And someone saying it has little content has nothing to do with EQ envy or whatever, it's just a fact that can be clearly seen when you look at the game objectively.
And for the record I don't like, nor do I play EQ.
[quote]In a game like EQ or DAOC content is having a different skin on a creature while changing very little else. In CoH content is having completely different factions that have significant strengths and weaknesses that can change how you fight them.[/quote]
CoH has the same. There's little difference between hellions, skulls, trolls, etc except a name and the skin.
As for mobs having different strengths and weaknesses, every MMO I've played has that, and IMO that doesn't equate to content, it's more variations in design. In EQ (though I haven't played it in ages) one spell or weapon might affect a mob differently then another or not at all, and the same goes for AO, SB, Ryzom, DAoC, etc.
[quote]
Not to mention CoH offers more varied abilities than any MMORPG I have played. Some of the more unique abilities include Hurricane, Gale, Rain of Fire, Freezing Rain, Rad Infection, Fallout, Quicksand, Snow Storm, and many more. (I didn't even mention travel powers)
[/quote]
If you really look at the powers in CoH you'll notice that the majority of them very similar to each other but have different animations and visual effects.
I do agree that CoH isn't for everyone, but it is definitely a game that just can't compare content wise to the other more rounded and established MMOs out there and even the new MMOs that are in development.
The game is beautiful, yes. Costume creation is near genius, yes. The overall theme is enticing and fun for a while and longer for many, yes. But content? Definitely lacking. And I'm sure Cryptic knows that and is working to rectify that problem with CoV and future content patches.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
"There's little difference between hellions, skulls, trolls, etc except a name and the skin."
But they are not the ONLY enemies out there. There are many others that are different. Yes if COH only had those than yes it would just be changing skins but that is not how it works.
There are slight differences between them all, and as slight as they are they are more than the slight variations between mobs in EQ and DAOC and any other MMORPG I can think of.
As for some other complaints, static dungeons called sewers, quests are not limited by class but contacts you choose. Why limits matter I do not know.
Enhancements offer most other things you describe concerning items.
Housing and mounts are rarely included in games at launch.
Also name one game with travel abilities as cool as COH. Who needs mounts.
Name one game with an ability set like Storm Summoning, there is no game that is even close.
Name one game with so many easily accessible low level quests, None even close now let alone at launch.
Name one game where you can place 69+ different ability changing items. None even close.
Name one game where you get 20 different adjustable abilities
I am sorry but these two posts claiming no content are unfounded.
IMO it comes down to people who want loot hoarding where they can have uber flaming sword of giving my wuss life meaning.
If you objectively look at the way defenders work compared to any other healing type classes in other games you will blown away.
Truthfully I doubt either of these people played COH very long if at all.
You made a statement and I just offered examples that illustrated my point in saying there indeed are similarities between the mobs in CoH. I didn't say they were the only types of mobs. I know the mobs change as you advance to higher levels and I would bet money that the same similarities between the higher level mobs exists as they do between the lower level ones. The only things that change are the abilities to use special powers, the skin, and their weakness to certain powers, which is not unique to this game and is more a design feature then it is content IMO.
As far as missions, quests, etc go, each and every MMO that has this as part of their content is similar in that they often separate them by class, level, skill, or archetype in the case of CoH. So again this is nothing unique to CoH and can involve more indepth content then CoH has as can be seen with MMO's like EQ, AO, or DAoC where you have extremely meaningful class specific rewards, tokens, or some other substantial reward for your success.
Inspirations are the main rewards obtained in CoH for your accomplishments (yes there are others, but these are the primary ones), where other MMOs offer many different types of rewards which equates to more content.
Ehancements are the only purchaseable items in the game so far, where other MMOs offer a huge variety of items that can be purchased. This also equates to more content, or a lack there of in the case of CoH.
Travel abilities? SB has group flight and natural flight which is very cool IMO, especially the natural flight. AO has airships which is also very cool. Flight in CoH is cool also, but it's nothing groundbreaking in the MMO world.
Housing and mounts were included in AO at launch, but you're right most MMOs include that after release mainly because it's content that's very time consuming.
The storm summoning powers look very nice in CoH, but the storm line from SB is very cool looking as well IMO.
AO, Eve (if I remember correctly), and Ryzom when it releases come to mind right off the top of my head, and AO especially. You start the game in Shadowlands with a list of low level quests designed to help you get started in the game and even if you're not in SL you can run missions designed for your level on RubiKa.
And I think you can compare the abilities you're talking about to the Perks available in AO, and there are definitely more then 20 for each profession.
*shrugs*
As you stated before, CoH is not going to be for everyone, and some are going to swear some heavenly power directed Cryptic in it's development, but IMO it is a good game that's just lacking in content, which again is obvious if one simply looks at the game objectively. And note I didn't say it has NO content, just that it's lacking).
To each his or her own in the games they like, but if something's not there or is lacking then there's nothing that can be done to change that except adding it. And adding content is what Cryptic is planning to do as they've openly stated and which is obvious with the expansion they had to have been planning and working on to some extent before the game even went live.
I would like to note that enhancements are dropped and your lack of this knowledge is more than enough proof that you eitehr do not play.
I am sorry but you are not qualified to comment.
Also like I said before, it is not that DAOC copies the basic same mob and uses it over and over, but that is ALL THEY DO!
Get the difference yet? COH may copy one model over but they are also doing other things at the same time. The Tsoo aer a great example of a mid level mob that is unlike any other in COH or other games.
Also compare the Vahz and Clockwork story arcs to anything out there now. I don't know if there is anything remotely as cool out there for low level characters.
Not to mention the enemies are developed as enemies in COH, they attack citizens compared to low level EQ or DAOC where it is simply a bunch of weak skeletons, Hill toads and wolf puppies you have to kill for NO REASON!
Like I said before it comes down to wanting items that you can see and very little else.
As for travel abilities if flight was the only one you might have a point but it isn't and you don't, good try though.
My point in starting this thread is to show how the people claiming no content are either people who never played like you, or people who equate loot hoarding to content.
Why everyone compares this this game to other games. It is in some way unique, thame is unique, way of play is unique, way of grouping is unique. You can like it or no. It is stupid to say that you would like it more if it would be more like EQ or Daoc.
There is no game which is loved by everyone, it is not a borthel that it should satusfy everyone.
And say what you like, but show also any other MMO which is so good for casual players, have so good start with no bugs and giving fun form start.
And hey!! Discovery of the year: you can play every game you want, and you can say that CoH sucks, lot of people play it, beside your complaining.
And things i hated mostly in MMO was time eating, rat fighting, unable to solo, CRAFTING and ECONOMY. If i would like to be crafter and sell things, i would open shop. I have neough of real job to look for second one in wirtual game.
If you can point out to me where I said enhancements weren't dropped it would be appreciated. But actually I'll save some time and tell you that's not what I said. I said enhancements were the only purchaseable item, but in that I erred as you can purchase Inspirations also but I'd forgotten about them. Regardless though my point is still valid in that the more established and well rounded MMOs offer more variety.
As far as what game copies what mob, that's a pretty common practice in MMO development, but the issue was whether or not CoH does this or not, which they do, so perhaps you should consider re-reading your initial post along with the claims you made. And yes CoH does different things with their mob AI, but as I stated in the beginning this is nothing unique as other games do the same. You can argue how much other games do it in comparison to CoH, but if you were to say CoH doesn't do it then you'd be wrong.
Now I'm not sure what wanting items has to do with your response to me as I've only addressed the issues you brought up in your original post, but that's fine. The overall point is and still remains that CoH IS lacking in content when you compare it to the more established MMOs on the market today and also most that are in development even. And when you're talking MMO, then sooner or later you have to compare them across the board.
And my only point in responding to this thread was to address the obvious inacurate statements you made, which I've done. It's just a shame that the high rating for this game has been so inflated and distorted by what I can guess are people like yourself who are incapable of seeing a game objectively and who have some problem with anyone doesn't think YOUR game is prefection on a stick.
Oh and I had two CoH accounts but recently canceled them both. Is that any of your business? No, but I thought it made a good closing sentence.
As for content, Prima makes guides for all kinds of games. EQ is around 290 pages of material, so is City of Heroes. You may or may not except that as equal amount of content, but I have seen some games with less pages. Since it doesn't have crafting, inventory, or player owned houses, people want to say it has no content. City of Heroes is more about gameplay than virtual property. So, If you think virtual property is content, CoH is not for you.
"Inspirations are the main rewards obtained in CoH for your accomplishments (yes there are others, but these are the primary ones), where other MMOs offer many different types of rewards which equates to more content.
Ehancements are the only purchaseable items in the game so far, where other MMOs offer a huge variety of items that can be purchased. This also equates to more content, or a lack there of in the case of CoH."
Both statements are false. They both drop and they are both purchaseable.
"As far as what game copies what mob, that's a pretty common practice in MMO development, but the issue was whether or not CoH does this or not, which they do, so perhaps you should consider re-reading your initial post along with the claims you made"
I never said they didn't copy I said that they did more than just copy. The difference is not copying it is that other games ONLY COPY! OK I can only repeat myself so many times for you.
Now you have said nothing. You continue to claim COH has no content but you don't back it up which is pointless.
I am sorry but COH has more content in that they establish the world right away in a far superior way than any MMORPG I have played.
Simple comparison is the difference between the COH early mobs, the Vahz, COT, Skulls/Hellions, Clocks, and 5th Column to EQ's early mobs of weak skels, rats, snakes and some other junk.
The differences between mobs early on is much more sifnificant period. While COH has many of the same slight differences that EQ has, they also have other abilities given to mobs that drastically changes the way they fight. Heck Vahz bosses have Oppressive Gloom(OG) at level 6. Not knowing how to combat OG can get you killed. There is nothing in DAOC like that period.
In DAOC you could be playing a level 50 mob and they would be no different than a level 4 mobs except they are scaled up for level and their strengths are slightly more defined.
Adding these abilities makes a huge difference. Imagine the Tsoo without Sorcs with Hurricane/Teleport/Heal. Well the Tsoo just wouldn't be the Tsoo anymore, instead they would be some watered down version of a mob like in other MMORPGs.
Paks, like the game, don't like the game I don't care but don't lie about it.
As I said SB (Shadowbane) and AO (Anarchy Online).
And to the individual who started this thread. Learn to accept that people aren't going to agree with you on everything and that CoH is not the pinnacle of MMOs online right now and perhaps you can engage in a more objective discussion with not as much bias and misleading statements in the future.
I'm not condeming your game, and in fact I think it's a good game, but not as great a game as you make it out to be or that is depicted from it's rating. It lacks content period, and even the developers admit to that fact so what is there to dispute with that issue? Nothing.
Did I say it has NO content? No, but as is obvious from your replies, you appear to be a couple steps behind in reading what I post or perhaps you don't read it at all, or perhaps you just aren't comprehending what I write. *shrugs* Regardless that's not a major problem for me as IMO you've offered little to support your initial statements other then your opinion on why CoH has a ton of content, which I've effectively countered. I've also presented examples that meet each of your 'show me one game' questions while you've offered little in return except for a display of gamers over enthusiam for a game.
Whether I like CoH or not is not at issue here. The content of the game is. And my original comments still stand that it is very lacking in that category and that it engages in the same practices as every other MMO on the market today in using similar skins for mobs while tweaking their AI (which does not equate to content) to make them different and how much or how little any developer decides to do that for their game is basically irrelevent.
Now I've made my point several times and I hope people look past the rating and actually read the reviews and maybe they'll get a better idea of what the game is actually like before they decide to buy it. And I'm not saying people shouldn't buy it, just that they shouldn't go by the rating alone as it is misleading.
Paks, you continue to say nothing except that I am biased and you are not. What a load.
I mention travel abilities and you equate that to one travel ability, fly, when COH has far more than one, and fly is more developed in COH than SB, especially fighting in air.
You mention AO having more than 20 abilities, but you ignore that I said 20 adjustable abilities.
You compare SB storm line to COH, please not even close. What 3 abilities compared to 9. And don't compare COH graphics to SB.
You continue to not understand the huge differences between mobs in COH compared to mobs in games like EQ and DAOC.
You ignore the fact that COH has 69 items slots which is more than any game I know of, but you act like other games have more item depth and this is a sign of COH lack of Content.
You ignore the fact that COH actually bothers to establish you as a hero who is helping others instead of other games that give very little reason for anything. Reasons for you being there, the things you are fighing being there, NOTHING.
I am currently playing AO and it definately DOES NOT allow combat and flying simultanously
I am currently playing AO and it definately DOES NOT allow combat and flying simultanously
You're telling me you can't attack something while flying in a hover car in AO? I haven't played in a little while but I'd suggest you check it again just to be sure. But regardless, SB does allow you to engage in combat while flying so that alone is sufficient to satisfy the question that was asked, which was to name one game that allows combat while flying.
You people seem to forget that it doesn't matter if you like the game that meets the requirement of your question as you only asked that one game be named which has been done.
And to the original poster, I'm not ignoring anything. I'm simply pointing out where your comments are not accurate by providing examples. And to expand on the Perk skills from AO, each Perk has several subsections that you can choose from for your profession as well which gives you access to several skills for each Perk you choose so CoH still is not unique in that area.
I would suggest again that you go back and re-read your original post and what I responded with as you're still sounding like you're just not paying attention or comprehending what I've posted. I'm not saying one game is better then another. I'm not saying that CoH has no content, and I'm also not comparing graphics between games or the coolness of one spellset as compared to another. You asked that one game be named that met certain features and I gave them to you, but yes, your bias is definitely obvious.
This thread has pretty much become pointless though so I'll leave you to your content filled fantasy.
Perks work quite differently than the adjustable abilities in COH.
Your only contention with anything I have said has been shoved straight back into your face and then you ignore it and go on about nothing for 90% of your post.
You claim no content so you better back it up, not just try and disprove something I say in a faulty manor, have me dispute your dispute and than you ignore me.
I have to agree with the last poster fussing over this game is just plain stupid... It is what it is and thats a very exciting game to everyone for about a month then the seasoned MMORPGs wake up and realize that the game has nothing to offer but lvling and hunting outdoors and indoors (better known as NO CONTENT)...This is a casual gammers game and thats what it will attract (plus the fanboi's ofcourse) but like I have said before it could have been so much more and because of that it will eventually fade away once the real contenders hit the market..
I also must state that I had been a member of the COH forums since December of 2002, and needless to say I was extremly dissapointed (along with many other vets that were around from then and longer). Here is a lesson for all you want to be MMORPG creators and all the people like me who thought that you dont need drops, items, armor, static dungeons, ect...No matter how good a game looks and no matter how great the combat is in it... With out some REAL content you will start strong and fade quickly.. Get the money while you can COH cause in about a month your gamming population is going to drop and FAST. But you will still have your fanboi's
P.S Hey but dont take my word for it, by all means please go out and spend the 50 bucks yourself and see if you like it.. This is not an endorsement this is just my way of Killing this game, by making everyone I can try it so they can in turn come back and bash the hell out of it (after the first "MAN THIS GAME IS FUN" month ofcourse)
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
"the game has nothing to offer but lvling and hunting outdoors and indoors (better known as NO CONTENT)..."
That is not the definition of no conent. Maybe no fluff, but content is more about the core gameplay which is combat in all MMORPGs. Now you can say COH doesn't have X, y, or z but you can not say tehy have no content because what they do have is significant.
"people like me who thought that you dont need drops, items, armor, static dungeons,"
There are drops and Static dungeons. The fact that you know so little and claim expertise is a joke.
You are the one that has no clue.. For a reference of a static dungeon I point you in the direction of Anarchy Onlines static dugeons (TOTW, Foremans, ect) I dont count Perez park or the silly sewers just to name a few examples In COB(B for bordom) as dungeons I count them as boring mindless XP farms..... I aslo dont count imspirations and Enhancements as drops there both things that you can purchase in stores... Hell there the only things you can purchase in stores in COH......Like I said before this game is hunt outdoors and/or hunt indoors (missions) thats all folks.. THE END. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Now im done fussing with you fanboi, since its pointless arguing with someone that can see no wrong in something so poorly thought out. BTW how do you like the latest patch, I'm reading on COH official forums that it basicly killed the only thing this game had going for it.. TEAMING.. LOL what a joke have fun....
P.S. Dont forget to go out and grab your copy of CITY OF HERO'S Today... You can even purchase it and Download it online... Only 50 bucks folks and trust me you will be in for a shocker... Have Fun and enjoy HAHA
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I don't care if you call an enhancemetn a drop or not, it is still a drop.
I don't care if you call the sewers something other than static dungeons, they still serve the purpose.
"the direction of Anarchy Onlines static dugeons "
Like AO is the only source of what a dungeon is, whatever.
COH has a high rankign for a reason, people like playing it. Yeah some people don't but that can be said for any MMORPG. Claiming it alcks thigns because they don't fit your ideal version of them means nothing. A drop is a drop and a dungeon is a dungeon.
Well as for EQ and DAoC there are big differances as for what weapon u use to kill, some creatures are more vunerable to other object, plus there is a differance in weapons, if u see 2 lvl 40s and they have the same primary and secondary skills they will be almost exactly the same, but......if u see 2 characters on EQ that are melees, one can have stronger attacks, one can have more health, u cant do this in CoH
Big Baller
Hype For Upcoming Games:
The Matrix Online
EVER QUEST 2!!!!
You can most certainly have different attack strengtha and defense srengths. There are a ton more differences between players in COH than DAOC and EQ combined.
Also the differences in EQ and DAOC mobs pail in comparison to COH in that they ALL have inherent weaknesses to damage types but COH ALSO has other changes and other abilities that make mob variation in EQ and DAOC seem non existant.
Look at the Vahz in COH. They are better constructed as early level mobs than anything in DAOC. They have a weakness to a damage type, pretty standard even in DAOC. They also have guys that shoot darts, debuff attack speed, raise dead, and give dumb mobs better AI. Kill them first and the zombies get dumb. There are also Vahz bosses with debuffs, disorients, immobilizes, and more. All these abilities are strong but they also have counters.
For example most players don't realize the Vahz boss's disorient is PBAE so you should walk away from them if they use it. These are mobs EARLY ON. In other games you are still killing rats and puppies and weak skeletons.
First of all, someone said Outcasts and Hellions were basically the same:
Shocker (Outcast Lieutenant):
Skills - Boxing (Moderate Smashing & Stun), Knife (Moderate Lethal), Lightning Bolt (High Energy & Endurance drain), O2 Boost (Self Heal, resist Stun, Immobilize, Confusion, Sleep), Hurricane (PBAoE sphere, Accuracy debuff, Knockback), Flight
Fallen Buckshot (Hellion Lieutenant):
Skills - Shotgun (AoE cone moderate Lethal & Knockback, short range)
Resists - Fire
Vulnerability - Cold
Even if you look at the Sluggers and Slammers from both villain groups there is a difference because Hellions are still vulnerable to cold and resist fire while cold and fire have normal effects to Outcasts. This is at the basic level. When you get higher, believe me, there are way more differences in higher groups. The Rikti Drones are immune to Sleep and Fear and resist Psionics but is vulnerable to Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, and Negative Energy.
The main thing is that these skills take the role of the weapons you see in other games.
Edit: It would probably be better to compare the Shocker to a Damned, but a Damned is a Boss, but he is still quite different than a Shocker.