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Awesome new chapters, but what is holding SWG really back?
someforumguy
Member RarePosts: 4,088
I've been playing SWG for about 6 months now. I really like Beast Mastery and also the upcoming chapter 7 features. Played on TCPrime to get an idea and noticed that even with the collections that the devs really put thought in where to put them. New players will find their first items in a natural way on the Legacy quest route. SWG is also one of the few games left that gives you a sandbox feeling. Build your city etc. This is all very promising, BUT....
After 6 months I also notice how some persistant bugs (gamebreaking for me) in PVE combat wont get removed (no words from devs but only excuses from vets who claim that its the mess from a different dev team and that they cant be fixed easily):
PVE Combat
- 'Can't see target' msg if your target sets a foot behind a pebble. No biggie. Works both ways line of sight, you think. Not in SWG though, the mob keeps shooting you while you can't.
- Stuck mobs who are getting back to their spawning point. You try to attack them where they are stuck to get tht 'cant see target' msg again. Oh well, next group then. You attack and meanwhile that stuck group gets lose and starts attacking you too!!
- Free aiming mode! Wow, finally a hybrid fps MMO. Yeah right. Use free aiming mode and you keep targetting(and selecting) chairs, tables your own droideka which decides to stand into mobs for a change. Or even when the droideka is just standing next to you with its screenwide targetting rectangle.
You soon realise that most players are using auto aim (locking target) and a lot of the times auto repeating attack too. Buttonmashing fest ftw! Free aiming is gimping yourself , try to target one of those 4 mobs that stand inside your character for example.
PVE combat is subpar to every other current MMO out there because of these bugs. Every MMO has bugs of course, but with these groundbreaking onces and that there is no indication that they will ever be fixed after such a long time, I call PVE in SWG crap. O, and I havent even touched animations, weird running or mobs etc, but to me those are not gamebreaking.
Crafting:
Long time ago before I started playing, they decided to remove decay from crafted items. I think that is good, I find it an annoying time and goldsink. Thing is, that it is still there in the schematics. I cant count the many times that I had to explain the new players that experimenting on that stat, doesnt have any effect. Even after the update for the furniture to allow different colours. It is still there. Also within food schematics, you find everywhere remainments of old systems that are not present anymore in SWG.
It is as if they had a bunch of devs with a very short attention span who dropped their work just after they started implementing or removing a feature.
Current team of devs might be better you think? If you look at what they are going to introduce it seems so yes. But just look at when they changed PVE difficulty (I liked that). They didnt touch the quests. A quest still might say cl35, but in reality you might want to add [group] to it, especially if there are elites involved.
They simply dont finish what they start and current developments shows they are more interested in keeping the vets happy, instead of attracting new players. The PVE combat crap really shows that.
Still, there are players who can look beyond this and still play this game and have fun. Kudos to them. But hey, some people even defended Dark and Light.
Comments
For the record...I've played this game for over 3 years and have yet to experience a "gamebreaking" bug. Annoyances yes, but gamebreaking...no.
There's no need at all to be nit-picky. Not when you have the whole NGE as a target.
There's no need at all to be nit-picky. Not when you have the whole NGE as a target.
Gawd would you guys gtf over it already. Yeah it sucked, yeah they admitted it, yeah they are doing their damndest to fix it. Play or go play with the fairies...
cool, then go use your un-earned jedi
_________________
USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST
Nah, I'll use my Elder
I forgot to mention how mobs shoot through walls in buildings. There is no way that you can use the surroundings to your advantage in SWG. Also free aiming mode doesnt turn it into a fps. Free aiming mode only makes it so you as player can miss. Mobs still use auto aim, because they never miss no matter how you move.
I dont deny that the devs are adding good things. Adding. They are not fixing those PVE bugs that were there since NGE launched. I dont call mobs shooting through walls, getting stuck on their way back to spawning point (happens everytime when someone trains back to the entrance) and 'cant see target' msg because of a bump in the road, nit picky. They are buildiing on a bugged foundation.
Maybe if it was a new game, but not when those bugs are so old. They are there to stay, it is that clear. Compared to other large titles in MMO land, this one has subpar PVE. If your thing is the sandbox idea, you wont mind it. If fluent PVE action is your thing, forget SWG.
O btw, ever tried to target a crystal snake with free aiming in SWG? If you tried you know what I mean. Now, check for how long that bug already excists.
I only played during NGE btw. I dont care how it used to be. I only see certain (to me) gamebreaking bugs not being fixed.
And about the decay. Almost every schematic from Structures and Engineering has a useless experiment line. Useless in the way that you can experiment, but it simply doesnt have any effect anymore. That is not going to be removed.
Whats holding SWG back? Simple... them not reincorporating a polished version of pre-cu.. especially after them admitting that nge was a mistake.
No offense to the people liking the game currently, all the power to you! ... but... the games days are numbered. Seriously.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
NPC's shooting through walls and such is really just a clientside lag thing - the server considers them to be visible to you but on your end the NPC's appearance has got stuck where you can't see it. In most cases, if you hold your mouse over the NPC so that the blue targeting brackets appear around it then you'll also be able to shoot back - even through the wall.
Using the terrain is certainly doable in PvE, I use it quite often myself. On my BH for instance, if I find myself in trouble I'll drop a snare trap and run over a hill or behind a tree to give me some time while my timers come back.
You've only been playing for 6 months ... a shame that you never got to experience a real sandbox, or the Creature Handler that blows the beastmaster out of the water ...
But yeah ... bug s have always been there .... what tend to annoy me most was the buildings popup 1 or 2 meters in front of you
... or some days where you just got stuck in them when driving through 
The bugs got really bad when they started implementing JTL... not to long ago i tried the 14 day vet-trial ... and was amazed that 2 years later, it still had some of the same bugs !!
Actually i take that back ... it's not a shame you missed out on that ... i have been lost since, desperatly searching for a game that i can enjoy half as much
.. to no prevail yet ...
I can understand what the OP is saying, it sounds like some of the bugs you bring up are the same ones that have been around for along time now and I don't know why SOE will not fix them.
As far as you liking the Beast Mastery, thats great! but as one person said,.. its good you have been playing for 6 months because if you played criiter handler back in the day,.. you would be upset to see what they are now....
But anyways, hang in there.. I am sure SOE will find time to fix this 6 or 7 months from now.
Been there done that:
Asherons Call,SWG,AOC,D&D,COH,Anarchy Online,DAOC,EVE,Guild Wars,LOTRO,POTBS,WAR,WW2, and Rift
Sorry, I played Creature Handled pre-NGE and I have to say, Beast Master is much more entertaining. There's more depth overall to BM then there was to CH.
Sorry, I played Creature Handled pre-NGE and I have to say, Beast Master is much more entertaining. There's more depth overall to BM then there was to CH.
I didn't want to respond because I haven't even messed around with BM but yeah, it seems Kracken (on Chilly and the Beast Master Senator) really enjoys it as well
Sorry, I played Creature Handled pre-NGE and I have to say, Beast Master is much more entertaining. There's more depth overall to BM then there was to CH.
It depends a bit on what you prefer ofcourse
I loved taming my pets myself, i don't like the idea of "producing" pets ... it was much cooler taming that baby, and watch it grow up
I loved going out in the wild, searching for and taming that one really special and rare pet ... the thrill was amazing ... finding it, and specially taming it ( and not fail so daddy would chew on you ) ...
I loved collecting rares .. some took me months to find ... while during those times i met tuns of nice people that rested at my camps ...
I loved beeing able to pull out 3 pets ..
I loved the fact all different pets came with their own specialties and armor ratings ... you didn't inject/incubate/whatever it is called them with any skill you would like them to have.. .
And there were many more things ... but again, i admit .. it's personal ...
What is holding it back is a great question. I would say a lack of new development and a small staff. I would also say SOE and Lucas Arts. There will be no expansion for 2008 per Lucas Arts. Something is up.
When a new player logs in and points out issues they are having with the game... it's an issue. PERIOD.
People can dismiss the issues they listed, but honestly... if you come from other games where the UI/combat system works, then come to SWG where it's really bugged and/or broken... I'm sorry, but that's not 'nit-picky'. It's just not.
Targetting in the NGE is really not good. It's not intuitive. It's very foreign from other games (to include SWG in it's prior states).
Targetting and moving items in your house...
Targetting players to buff them...
Targetting targets to kill them...
Targetting corpses to loot them...
Targetting NPC's to converse with them...
Targetting certain items and interacting with them seems to be more difficult than others and sometimes impossible....
Getting your character to release a target and/or switch to a new one...
Getting your character to release a target when there is no 'new target'...
List these issues as nit picking...go ahead. But they are also cummulative. Even if they aren't constant, they happen... and when they keep happening at certain times or different situations, they become even more annoying.
...
If I throw 'rubberbanding' out there as an issue, is that really 'nit picking'? No. It's another example of a very valid issue. If I am riding a barq speeder/speeder and have to pass over a spot 5-6 times (sometimes more... and that is not a stretched number), then it's a play-impacting problem.
To say that the bugs are 'client side' does not fix the issues. It only provides a 'reason'. It doesn't really define root cause, nor does it provide a remedy.
For SOE to communicate to the player base that 'we are aware of the issue and are working to provide a solution'... and it's been more than a year or more, then I think that certainly stops being 'nit picking' and starts being a real issue.
Sorry, I played Creature Handled pre-NGE and I have to say, Beast Master is much more entertaining. There's more depth overall to BM then there was to CH.
Well, you and I will have to disagree with that, Obraik, because from my perspective, Beast Master is a pale, pathetic substitute for the glory that was CH, even in its nerfed (after December 2003) form.
I want my three GSPs back! I want to ride my dew with a gurreck in tow! I want to ride my speeder with GSPs in tow! I want to ride my swoop with a peko peko pacing me!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Obraik, I appreciate the fact that you're trying to be helpful but perhaps a more helpful tip is to contact SOE and demand that the ui be updated.
This poster is trying to point out how unintuitive the ui is and all you're doing is showing work-arounds. This simply should not be the case, and 1st on SOE's to-do list needs to be the ui. The ui is the first element in a game that a new user experiences, and that should not cause frustration.
Nothing is more important in a game then the interface, and if most people feel like it's cumbersome and awkward then that should be priority one! There is no excuse for a delay in addressing this, as this is precisely the kind of attitude from SOE that brought so much frustration to the community in the past.
There should be no hesitation on this, yet it's been 2 years!!
Sorry, I played Creature Handled pre-NGE and I have to say, Beast Master is much more entertaining. There's more depth overall to BM then there was to CH.
See this is what I find funny. I've read a few of your posts here and there. And you seem to love the NGE more. So... let me confirm a few things here.. since you think the nge is better *pops knuckles*
So you believe this whole thing with crafters is ok? You know the whole "You get a weapon every few levels and thats all you ever need to level." thing? You believe that its better now?
You believe the taking away player individuality by reducing the free tree play into the iconic classes was a good move? Even when they are still having more or less the same issues balancing now it than they did in the past? Not to mention the roleplay feel of it has been lessened greatly do to everyone pretty much being the same in skills.
As to the beast master versus creature handling thing. I believe it was done better in pre-cu.. players had to sneak up to animals and try and tame them.. and not only that a bio engineer could make you one if he took the time to find all the best genetic strands.. I dunno man it seems they made it a lot less than what it used to be.... It was much cheaper to do it back then also.
And lolrestus... how could the gcw devolved into a one area fight? There used to be base raids on every planet and everything. Now everyone gathers to one specific area to pvp.. how epic!!!
Anyway ill just leave it to those few for now.. i truly don't see how its a better game now.. but perhaps you can enlighten me?
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
It made me lookup one of my old screenshots .... in what game can you kick a krayt dragon arse, wearing spiderman armor, using the title Businessman ( secretly i was also TKM
) ...
Piccie
Sorry, I played Creature Handled pre-NGE and I have to say, Beast Master is much more entertaining. There's more depth overall to BM then there was to CH.
See this is what I find funny. I've read a few of your posts here and there. And you seem to love the NGE more. So... let me confirm a few things here.. since you think the nge is better *pops knuckles*
So you believe this whole thing with crafters is ok? You know the whole "You get a weapon every few levels and thats all you ever need to level." thing? You believe that its better now?
I'll be the first to agree that Weaponsmith is in need of some help to make it a worthwhile profession again. Thankfully, it seems the Devs are starting to work their way towards this, all the new weapons so far that have been discovered are all in schematic form. Overall though, I would disagree that crafting is in a bad way. Apart from weapons, everything else is best or only made by a crafter. I see people argue that decay has made crafting worthless but I have to disagree with that, for me personally it's made crafting more enjoyable. As an armoursmith, I can focus more on armour customisation and interaction with customers then running crates of identicle armour to my vendor on a daily basis.
You believe the taking away player individuality by reducing the free tree play into the iconic classes was a good move? Even when they are still having more or less the same issues balancing now it than they did in the past? Not to mention the roleplay feel of it has been lessened greatly do to everyone pretty much being the same in skills.
Although it's not as indepth as what the skill system was, expertise does give you the ability to customise your character to a degree. The Medic expertise has allowed me to play more like the Combat Medic that I was in the CU. Others on the otherhand have their Medics specced out more like Doctor in the CU. Through all the professions, people can have rather different special abilities and stats depending on how they build out their expertise. Take up Beast Master and that adds further customisation based on the pet type and abilities your focus on with it.
As to the beast master versus creature handling thing. I believe it was done better in pre-cu.. players had to sneak up to animals and try and tame them.. and not only that a bio engineer could make you one if he took the time to find all the best genetic strands.. I dunno man it seems they made it a lot less than what it used to be.... It was much cheaper to do it back then also.
Which you like better depends on how you like to play I guess. I personally prefer the complete customisation of my pet aspect of Beast Master. I also prefer how each pet has it's own personality. Various activites will affect its mood and consequently its combat performance (it also feels like they get more dissobediant the lower their mood is). I feel more "attached" (as much as you can to a virtual object, heh) to my current pets then I did to my CH pets.
And lolrestus... how could the gcw devolved into a one area fight? There used to be base raids on every planet and everything. Now everyone gathers to one specific area to pvp.. how epic!!!
There's nothing to stop base raids from happening now, the mechanics are still there. There's also more then just Restuss when it comes to PvP zones, there are 3 other zones around the galaxy. The inclusion of these zones has made PvP more accessable to those that don't have huge amounts of time to play the game - you know you can go to these zones and generally almost always find PvP. Battles across the galaxy still do happen, at least on Chilastra anyway.
Anyway ill just leave it to those few for now.. i truly don't see how its a better game now.. but perhaps you can enlighten me?
In my opinion many of the above bugs are true to some degree, it's never black or white.
But what I think is holding this game back is the utter lack of Star Wars. OK the name of the game has Star Wars in it, but that's about it. I won't rant about order 66 or the strange timeline, because it's nice to be a jedi and as we know time isn't constant :P
BUT when I find alot of rebel jedis using the force in an extremely aggressive way and being very hatefull to players in general, thats when I begin to feel the game going no where. When we have our fights in Restuss or the GCW bases there is about 3 out of 10-20 non jedi imperials who have stormtrooper armor equipted, the rest have mandalorian or RIS armor. Thats just wrong, who can remember a stormie (or clone) who had anything else than standard issue stormie (or katarn) armor?
SWG is held back by the lack of star wars, why hasn't LEC killed this game earlier? Lucas arts have plowed bilions of dollars into the trade mark, with films, books, comics, action figures, really good games (TIE fighter, KOTOR etc). What do SWG have, well one time we had 2 Luke Skywalkers in Theed walking side by side (cool bug), we have pink mandalorian armor, we have imperial combatants without the standard issue armor, we have rebel jedis who aren't close to acting as a light jedi, we don't have crackdown on faction players etc etc etc.
And with the upcoming chapter, I don't feel that the game will have imersion into the star wars universe as we know, especially from the films. I'm signing of again, I have enjoyed NGE, it made the game livid but there is still no Star Warsy feel to the game. Thats whats holding back the game.
crafting with no decay in game is pointless.. how you supposed to make any money crafting for the other 10 players on the server? scratch that crafting in swg is pointless period..
SWG gives you the freedom to make your own story in the Star Wars world. Which is what's so appealing about Star Wars, there's alot of room for many different stories. The movies really only show a small side to the overall picture.