In my experiences... the judgment of the communities of MMOs depend a lot on the kin/guild that a player joins; or if they join one at all. If you have an awesome kinship then any and all "problems" stemming from getting or finding groups is pretty much a non-issue.
There's a lot of truth there, a good guild makes a huge difference in any MMO I've played. In LOTRO especially, a Kin is needed to counter the quest mechanics and other-people-dependant crafting set up.
While soloing up to a point is possible in LOTRO, I guess by the mid-20's or so, the devs figure you must have played enough to find a guild by then, so the abundance of group-only quests won't hinder your fun much.
And we need to remember ....a dedicated guild or kinship requires a good game with options for guilds...
Most of my guild were 30+ years of age...but left to pursue other games...not an issue with the kinship...just an issue with the game...
Cheers!
Yup... not every game is for every person.
Our kinship is still growing (not everyone that has started is still playing) and is larger now than when the game began. About 100 players give or take a few.
In my experiences... the judgment of the communities of MMOs depend a lot on the kin/guild that a player joins; or if they join one at all. If you have an awesome kinship then any and all "problems" stemming from getting or finding groups is pretty much a non-issue.
There's a lot of truth there, a good guild makes a huge difference in any MMO I've played. In LOTRO especially, a Kin is needed to counter the quest mechanics and other-people-dependant crafting set up.
While soloing up to a point is possible in LOTRO, I guess by the mid-20's or so, the devs figure you must have played enough to find a guild by then, so the abundance of group-only quests won't hinder your fun much.
And we need to remember ....a dedicated guild or kinship requires a good game with options for guilds...
Most of my guild were 30+ years of age...but left to pursue other games...not an issue with the kinship...just an issue with the game...
Cheers!
Yup... not every game is for every person.
Our kinship is still growing (not everyone that has started is still playing) and is larger now than when the game began. About 100 players give or take a few.
Same here - except for what I wrote below - it has now split up into a "hardcore" and a "casual" guild. We also started a kind of cooperation with a UK guild, for easier organisation of large raids in the future. I like the way things evolve in this area.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
BTW, ever wondered why "all your kinship, where everyone was 30+" left?
Yes...already told you...and I also have already had 5 join EQ2 after their trial when I got in contact with them to find out what they were up to......so, sorry, but my answer stands..
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
BTW our kinship (founded on the 14th of April has just bought a kinship house. There are regular raids on schedule (not that I care, I don't like those), and sessions twice every weekend when officers and high characters are helping lvl 25-35 people with quests. We have now a website and forums. And this kinship has a "PUK" - only very few players did or do know each other from before LOTRO... I am not saying that nobody has left - the hardcore players formed their own "HC" kinship soon - ours is now the casual one, and there is only a small fluctuation, but in the last 2-3 weeks we had about 20 new members. So I guess, maybe expreience truly depends a lot on kinships? DB
Our kinship is very similar. Each day of the week is setup for different playstyles and/or different objectives. For example:
Wednesdays are scheduled for helping lower level members finish quests and work through the story-line quests.
Fridays are Raids night; with a different instance scheduled each week. When each one has been completed they start at the beginning and do them again.
Tuesdays are Alternates night. Everyone that wants to participate logs on with their alternate character(s) and we work through the lower level quests again.
Mondays are for fun things like Racing, Role-Playing events, Player-made quests or Session play.
The other nights vary from week to week depending on what people vote on doing from the web page.
BTW our kinship (founded on the 14th of April has just bought a kinship house. There are regular raids on schedule (not that I care, I don't like those), and sessions twice every weekend when officers and high characters are helping lvl 25-35 people with quests. We have now a website and forums. And this kinship has a "PUK" - only very few players did or do know each other from before LOTRO... I am not saying that nobody has left - the hardcore players formed their own "HC" kinship soon - ours is now the casual one, and there is only a small fluctuation, but in the last 2-3 weeks we had about 20 new members. So I guess, maybe expreience truly depends a lot on kinships? DB
I suppose its similar to telling people about a party you went to. If you went alone, you'd have a good time mingling and getting to know people, but probably wouldn't be a night you'd write home about.
If you go with a group of friends, odds are you'd have a blast, and report how awsome the party was.
Same here - except for what I wrote below - it has now split up into a "hardcore" and a "casual" guild. We also started a kind of cooperation with a UK guild, for easier organisation of large raids in the future. I like the way things evolve in this area.
DB
I do have a question on this..
Are you not playing on the European servers? Isnt that where the Golden Joysticks voted LOTRO GOTY?
Fascinating...
How much have you played on the US servers? Usually the Europeon population has a different opinion on RPG's than the US...like the European market LOVES Fina Fantasy games...yet, the US audience is usually lukewarm to these titles...but here Halo 3 sells like hotcakes...but does less than stellar oversea's...
Interesting to see the differences of opinion of various cultures when "discussing" games..
BTW, ever wondered why "all your kinship, where everyone was 30+" left?
Yes...already told you...and I also have already had 5 join EQ2 after their trial when I got in contact with them to find out what they were up to......so, sorry, but my answer stands..
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
I will add "... in my/their opinon to "Bad game", and will not run that circle again, ok?
As for the stutter - no bending please. I never said you don't have that stutter. I just said that more people don't have it then those who do. This is my own experience, not the general "truth". Comparisons to EQ2 was not really a good idea from you.... so let's just leave it die peacefully.
You can post whatever you want, it will only prove that you can insert links in here, so.... not much point.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Same here - except for what I wrote below - it has now split up into a "hardcore" and a "casual" guild. We also started a kind of cooperation with a UK guild, for easier organisation of large raids in the future. I like the way things evolve in this area.
DB
I do have a question on this..
Are you not playing on the European servers? Isnt that where the Golden Joysticks voted LOTRO GOTY?
Fascinating...
How much have you played on the US servers? Usually the Europeon population has a different opinion on RPG's than the US...like the European market LOVES Fina Fantasy games...yet, the US audience is usually lukewarm to these titles...but here Halo 3 sells like hotcakes...but does less than stellar oversea's...
Interesting to see the differences of opinion of various cultures when "discussing" games..
Thanks
I would not make the mistake of generalizing people based on the geographical locations they live in. I strongly believe that every kind of personality lives in every single country in this world (I worked together closely with people from over 15 countries in the world. Currently I am in daily contact with customers from almost every countty in central and eastern Europe, and from the Middle-East as well (UAE, Saudi, Lybia, Iran, Pakistan, etc... my boss is from India, my closest colleagues are from the UK, Ireland, Moldova, Germany, France, the Netherlands.). I also occasionally work with Latin-American and Chinese/Japanese people, as well as US guys
You would be shocked to know how very very similar we all are in the same environments. True for the same workplaces/jobs, and true for MMOS.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
BTW, ever wondered why "all your kinship, where everyone was 30+" left?
Yes...already told you...and I also have already had 5 join EQ2 after their trial when I got in contact with them to find out what they were up to......so, sorry, but my answer stands..
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
I will add "... in my/their opinon to "Bad game", and will not run that circle again, ok?
As for the stutter - no bending please. I never said you don't have that stutter. I just said that more people don't have it then those who do. This is my own experience, not the general "truth". Comparisons to EQ2 was not really a good idea from you.... so let's just leave it die peacefully.
You can post whatever you want, it will only prove that you can insert links in here, so.... not much point.
DB
Yet...your wording indicates that you do NOT believe I have it...even though proof was provided...I have bent zero of your words...
And as a matter of fact, when I said I had better luck running EQ2, you then jumped on the "hater" bandwagon, and decided to post a poll about EQ2 vs. LOTRO...again, like I was telling a lie.
No...I am afraid since those old posts, we do not agree, and we will always disagree...but, you make sure that every post I write, you instantly post an opposite of what it is (and sandage and Dragonace..) and even make sure to throw in a jibe,,,
Almost as if you feel I may be right...and the only way to protect yourself is to cut me down...again...very interesting..
And still no proof of counter arguments...it is one thing to say something and expect others to believe, and another to provide proof...
I guess I will always be the Scully to your Mulder eh?
BTW, ever wondered why "all your kinship, where everyone was 30+" left?
Yes...already told you...and I also have already had 5 join EQ2 after their trial when I got in contact with them to find out what they were up to......so, sorry, but my answer stands..
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
Yup... I used to play EQ2 for awhile as well... back in the day. For quite awhile as well (about 1.5 years).
The difference? I moved on. I don't feel the need to go and harass the players of that game and post again, and again about the parts of the game that I didn't like. I don't rag on SOE for all the "evils" that they have done (in fact, in other forums I've even been called an SOE "fanboi").
Why you may ask?
Because I don't see the point in being such a negative person. I don't see the point in purposefully being a jerk in other game's forums. In the end, it's all a matter of preference I guess. I prefer to spend the majority of my forum time on a forum for a game I'm playing and that I like. Doesn't everyone?
If posters want to be known for being the "troll" of such-and-such forum. Well, then I guess that's their choice. Personally I'd rather be known as a poster in a forum for a game I like and play than for one that I don't play and despise.
BTW, ever wondered why "all your kinship, where everyone was 30+" left?
Yes...already told you...and I also have already had 5 join EQ2 after their trial when I got in contact with them to find out what they were up to......so, sorry, but my answer stands..
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
I will add "... in my/their opinon to "Bad game", and will not run that circle again, ok?
As for the stutter - no bending please. I never said you don't have that stutter. I just said that more people don't have it then those who do. This is my own experience, not the general "truth". Comparisons to EQ2 was not really a good idea from you.... so let's just leave it die peacefully.
You can post whatever you want, it will only prove that you can insert links in here, so.... not much point.
DB
Yet...your wording indicates that you do NOT believe I have it...even though proof was provided...I have bent zero of your words...
And as a matter of fact, when I said I had better luck running EQ2, you then jumped on the "hater" bandwagon, and decided to post a poll about EQ2 vs. LOTRO...again, like I was telling a lie.
No...I am afraid since those old posts, we do not agree, and we will always disagree...but, you make sure that every post I write, you instantly post an opposite of what it is (and sandage and Dragonace..) and even make sure to throw in a jibe,,,
Almost as if you feel I may be right...and the only way to protect yourself is to cut me down...again...very interesting..
And still no proof of counter arguments...it is one thing to say something and expect others to believe, and another to provide proof...
I guess I will always be the Scully to your Mulder eh?
Cheers!
LOL - maybe because English is my third language, I am not sure... the highlighted text means _exactly_ and precisely that I DO believe you had the stutter. Maybe I need to learn more English... I apologize for that.
I also have a difficulty in understanding how in the hell can someone be a "hater" for placing a poll? You know, I could only place one single vote out of the 84 votes in total.... you're trying really hard to demonize me this is flattering!
BTW, Scully would have gone crazy with this many Mulder's around
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I would not make the mistake of generalizing people based on the geographical locations they live in. I strongly believe that every kind of personality lives in every single country in this world (I worked together closely with people from over 15 countries in the world. Currently I am in daily contact with customers from almost every countty in central and eastern Europe, and from the Middle-East as well (UAE, Saudi, Lybia, Iran, Pakistan, etc... my boss is from India, my closest colleagues are from the UK, Ireland, Moldova, Germany, France, the Netherlands.). I also occasionally work with Latin-American and Chinese/Japanese people, as well as US guys
You would be shocked to know how very very similar we all are in the same environments. True for the same workplaces/jobs, and true for MMOS. DB
And now you assume I generalize...
Examples...
Final Fantasy X
"2,140,000-unit shipment — 1,926,000 units — within just the first four days of release in Japan,"
Once among the top twenty best-selling console games of all time, as of March 2006, the game's consistent sales have earned it the position of the second best-selling Final Fantasy game
But, in the US market
"he game has been rated the US market's 11th best selling game of the 21st century,"
Actual quotes...
So, sales were considerably larger overseas...
Now..take KOTOR....a Western Developed title
"The general critical response was extremely enthusiastic. KotOR won numerous awards, including Game Developers Choice Awards' game of the year, BAFTA Games Awards' best Xbox game of the year, and Interactive Achievement Awards for best console RPG and best computer RPG.[3]KotOR has seen success as the game of the year from many sources including IGN, Gamespot, Computer Gaming World, PC Gamer, GMR Magazine, The Game Developers Choice Awards, Xbox Magazine, and G4.[3] Interactive Achievement Awards awarded it for best story and best character development.[3] IGN gave KotOR additional awards in Best Sound (Xbox category), Best Story (PC category), Xbox RPG Game of the Year 2003, PC RPG Game of the Year 2003, Xbox Game of the Year 2003, PC Game of the Year 2003, and Overall Game of the Year 2003 across all platforms"
But, no mention of European awards or sales...
And then take the Xbox as a perfect example of a great selling machine in the US, that just cannot break free overseas...
There are differences in taste, just like you love LOTRO, and I do not...
Simple, but with some detailed data above...sorry if you cant accept we are different...
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
BTW, ever wondered why "all your kinship, where everyone was 30+" left?
Yes...already told you...and I also have already had 5 join EQ2 after their trial when I got in contact with them to find out what they were up to......so, sorry, but my answer stands..
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
I will add "... in my/their opinon to "Bad game", and will not run that circle again, ok?
As for the stutter - no bending please. I never said you don't have that stutter. I just said that more people don't have it then those who do. This is my own experience, not the general "truth". Comparisons to EQ2 was not really a good idea from you.... so let's just leave it die peacefully.
You can post whatever you want, it will only prove that you can insert links in here, so.... not much point.
DB
Yet...your wording indicates that you do NOT believe I have it...even though proof was provided...I have bent zero of your words...
And as a matter of fact, when I said I had better luck running EQ2, you then jumped on the "hater" bandwagon, and decided to post a poll about EQ2 vs. LOTRO...again, like I was telling a lie.
No...I am afraid since those old posts, we do not agree, and we will always disagree...but, you make sure that every post I write, you instantly post an opposite of what it is (and sandage and Dragonace..) and even make sure to throw in a jibe,,,
Almost as if you feel I may be right...and the only way to protect yourself is to cut me down...again...very interesting..
And still no proof of counter arguments...it is one thing to say something and expect others to believe, and another to provide proof...
I guess I will always be the Scully to your Mulder eh?
Cheers!
No.
I just like to point out the kind of poster it takes to continually come back to a game's forums when it's abundantly clear what opinion you have of that game. It's one thing to pop in from time to time to check up on how things are progressing. It's something else to obsess on it.
When your posts are 4x as many on the forum for a game you dislike compared to a game you like and play regularly. It may be time to step back and see what the real issue is.
Are you sure you like EQ2 more than LoTRo? Your forum posts and the time you spend writing and thinking about LoTRo would seem to belie what your words have said.
Just think of all the positive things you could have posted in the EQ2 forums in that time. Just think of the benefits your insight may have had on some conundrum that befuddled your fellow players' in the EQ2 forum. See... even though you seem to say your love is EQ2... your actions speak differently. Is that why you are so upset on these forums?
And now you assume I generalize... Examples... Final Fantasy X "2,140,000-unit shipment — 1,926,000 units — within just the first four days of release in Japan," Once among the top twenty best-selling console games of all time, as of March 2006, the game's consistent sales have earned it the position of the second best-selling Final Fantasy game But, in the US market "he game has been rated the US market's 11th best selling game of the 21st century," Actual quotes... So, sales were considerably larger overseas...
Umm.... talk about "working the numbers"!
Does anyone else see a problem with the "FACTS" that openedge is using there? Did you take any statistics classes in high school or college? From the two quotes and the conclusion that you drew from them; I'm going to assume NO.
For someone who prides themselves on their research and their links to proof. I'm pretty disappointed in you openedge.
Edit: Oh, and what does this have to do with the original topic as well?
Originally posted by winter ... and there just as many haters here as this thread shows willing to attack and twist words to suite their perpose (ie Die_Scream) as there are fanbois, there is IMO no one victom Cheers
I'm not sure what your problem is with me winter, but I'm not trying to twist anything. i think you should calm down, take a breath...or at least try to just besmirch one poster at a time per post.
If you think I've been attacking in this thread, you're imagining slights where there are none.
Lets face it, this thread has gone so off the rails () its just a pissing contest now anyway.
I apologise if somehow I misuderstood you. You did post a few messages earlier that I and 3 other posters had a problem with anyone that posted anything negative about LoTRO. Nothing could be farther from the truth as I pointed out in a follow up (one you evidently ignored, didn't see , or didn't feel worth replying too as it didn't support your arguement that anyone that doesn't flame LoTRO must be a Fanboi etc.)
I have seen you, Openedge and many many other people post negatives agaisnt LoTRO generally except with a few response to Agentsmith I have remained silent because you voice your opinions. The OP here voices his opinion as fact. I objected and you stepped in with a attack, both defending the OP (ie saying well I think he ment or everyone should automatically know its a opinion even though he states its a truth etc.) and Dismissing anyone that didn't agree with him as being against everyone that had anything negative to say about the game. (A statement you can't backup)
Its strange to me to see many of the people that post they don't like LoTRO bearing some kinda complex that they are wrongfully persecuted. If you come into any thread spouting lies expect to be called on it. (not talking about those that state their opinions) Hell call me a fanboi if you like but anyone coming here saying The Truth is LoTRO is the best game ever, or LoTRO has sold 10 million copies would get the same responce from me as those saying 'Hey I played the game for 50 levels to get to the end game, and the truth is its a piece of crap!"
Point is this is not just a LoTRO problem any forum you'll find some poster with a godhood complex stating their opinions as gods own facts (Ie The truth about VG, The Truth about WoW etc etc) it doesn't matter if its for or against the game. Guess once again I'm ranting agaisnt human nature. Openedge, Die_ Scream I've seen both of you do your fair share of glossing over and defending those that dislike LoTRO but cry foul on anyone that doesn't share your negative views. Once again Die_Scram how did you come up with your assuption that I'm against anyone / everyone with a negative view on LoTRO? I mean I assume you then have proof from the last 20 or so Anti LoTRo threads to back it up? Sorry but I really can't take your statement as anything other then a "He doesn't dislike LoTRO like us we must shut him up or show him as a idiot fanboi attack"
As pointed out some people will like the game, some people won't
Yes there are fanbois that will attack haters, but on the other hand there are just as many haters that will attack anyone with anything positive to say about the game. Overall IMO anyone that posts their opinions as fact are below contempt and those people that defend them because they share the same opinion on the game aren't much better. Flame away. IMO this has been a flame bait thread since the OP labeled it "THE TRUTH ABOUT LoTRO"
Ever wonder why so many posters here have some weird godhood delusion that their OPINIONS are indeed some kinda cosmic truths? Would be kinda neat if they got over themselves for a bloody minute , got a clue, and maybe figured out the world really doesn't revolve around them and / or their playstyle <sigh> guess a reality check from them is asking too much. Great post!! Truer words were never typed on any forum before!! If I had a dollar for every self-gratifying, narcissistic, blow-hard who thought their opinion was from God's lips that I encountered, I would be as rich as the Hiltion's. These people remind me of The Comicbook Guy from The Simpsons! And these types aren't just found on MMORPG.com's site. They are on just about every forum.
Yea, totally true. This is why it's so entertaining to be here, to piss these people of on a regular basis Not that it will ever make them think or re-consider their godselfish beliefs, but it is still fun to counter them and confuse them on a regular basis
DB
Is it safe to assume you three are talking about everyone except yourselves? Or just anyone who doesn't like LOTRO for various reasons?
No, I'm talking about people here who claim their OPINIONS are TRUTH you do understand the difference don't you? I have my opinions about SWG, VG and many other games but I don't go around stating that my opinions are truths that apply to everyone as the OP did. Do you believe your opinions are truths that everyone must bow too? If not then I don't see your problem. If you do then yes you are one of the people I rant against
Still wondering where you came up with your assumption. There are tons of LoTRO hate threads, you'll notice I haven't posted in most. So your arguement that I'm posting against anyone that dislikes LoTRO is just silly and not really based on anything true or factual. Try again, really you can do better with your attacks.
Have a nice day
Sorry a refresher bump for Die_Scream since he doesn't know what I'm talking about. Perhaps he wasn't attacking me and the 2 other guys, maybe he wasn't dismissing us out of hand because we were speaking out against the OP, but it seems like it to me
I guess if I made a blanket staement like DiE_Scream posts agaisnt everyone that has anything positive to say about LoTRO he might not view it as a attack? (and it surely wouldn't be anymore true then what he posted above.)
And now you assume I generalize... Examples... Final Fantasy X "2,140,000-unit shipment — 1,926,000 units — within just the first four days of release in Japan," Once among the top twenty best-selling console games of all time, as of March 2006, the game's consistent sales have earned it the position of the second best-selling Final Fantasy game But, in the US market "he game has been rated the US market's 11th best selling game of the 21st century," Actual quotes... So, sales were considerably larger overseas...
Umm.... talk about "working the numbers"!
Does anyone else see a problem with the "FACTS" that openedge is using there? Did you take any statistics classes in high school or college? From the two quotes and the conclusion that you drew from them; I'm going to assume NO.
For someone who prides themselves on their research and their links to proof. I'm pretty disappointed in you openedge.
Edit: Oh, and what does this have to do with the original topic as well?
Ok...lets try this one then....
"Square Electronic Arts announced that Final Fantasy X, a PlayStation 2 computer entertainment system exclusive and the latest installment in the best-selling Final Fantasy X series, has sold more than one million units in North America. This combined with the units shipped in Japan makes Final Fantasy X one of the top-selling PlayStation 2 games with a total of 4 million units shipped in both North America and Japan. Sales of Final Fantasy X have propelled the life-to-date sales of the series to 38 million units worldwide."
Now..YOU do the math for me...Europe or USA?
As to the topic...it is all about "truths"...the truth about LOTRO is it is a favorite of the European market according to a Golden Joystick vote...and my reprisal is in regards to differences of opinion...
Simply stated, I believe it is not as well liked in the US, and the USA based awards will show this..
Reason that my large guild is disbanded, and the European guilds are growing..
Heheh Strangely enough I knew as soon as I saw the Thread title it'd was another Flame bait (for lack of a better term) Thread. Still theres something oddly fasicinating about things we sometimes know are bad for us that pulls us to them anyway
Look at LoTRO. The game itself does not suck at all. It may or may not be what you expected, but it does not suck nor is it the best game ever. So ether you like it or you don't.
So, AGAIN...by this statement...it is stated as fact..
I have never stated my opinion as FACT, unless I had something to back it up...
So, by YOUR opinion LOTRO does not suck for anyone...
By MY opinion it does for ME...
Now, here is the kicker...who is right...supposedly you think YOU are as you just stated a fact...you did not say "Me" or "I" in that sentence
And that is the whole gist of the Hot Dog discussion..semantics....You have taken what I said and added information, so that the wording is different...which is what is done here constantly by the ...oh lets call your group "fanbase"...
I even stated earlier...people like it or they don't...and what happens is the "fanbase" has decided that anyone who does NOT like it is either a troller, a flamer (hmm), or something they are not...yet, to counter the posted issues or concerns with the game...they...(the fanbase)...slam the poster of the opposite opinion...and come up with arguments of why THEY (the fanbase) are right...
Really...NO ONE is right...as stated MANY, MANY times...it is all opinion...now if people want to twist this person or that persons words, and take it personal...then yes, I feel sorry for those people...
But, do not take what has been said and turn it to your own liking, so it matches your beliefs...the last time that happened we had the ...."Crusades"
And that is what has happened to this thread....I smell a thread lock coming soon...
Cheers!
LOL - Lets not get our panties in a bunch. I was refering to your Hot Dog example as it was wrong because the other guy didn't eat it to determine if it sucked or not.
To be honest I can't stand the game. I beta tested it and decided it was not for me. To much lovie dovie LoTR fanbois for me.
But that does not change the fact that the game does not suck. It just sucked for me
And now you assume I generalize... Examples... Final Fantasy X "2,140,000-unit shipment — 1,926,000 units — within just the first four days of release in Japan," Once among the top twenty best-selling console games of all time, as of March 2006, the game's consistent sales have earned it the position of the second best-selling Final Fantasy game But, in the US market "he game has been rated the US market's 11th best selling game of the 21st century," Actual quotes... So, sales were considerably larger overseas...
Umm.... talk about "working the numbers"!
Does anyone else see a problem with the "FACTS" that openedge is using there? Did you take any statistics classes in high school or college? From the two quotes and the conclusion that you drew from them; I'm going to assume NO.
For someone who prides themselves on their research and their links to proof. I'm pretty disappointed in you openedge.
Edit: Oh, and what does this have to do with the original topic as well?
Ok...lets try this one then....
"Square Electronic Arts announced that Final Fantasy X, a PlayStation 2 computer entertainment system exclusive and the latest installment in the best-selling Final Fantasy X series, has sold more than one million units in North America. This combined with the units shipped in Japan makes Final Fantasy X one of the top-selling PlayStation 2 games with a total of 4 million units shipped in both North America and Japan. Sales of Final Fantasy X have propelled the life-to-date sales of the series to 38 million units worldwide."
Now..YOU do the math for me...Europe or USA?
As to the topic...it is all about "truths"...the truth about LOTRO is it is a favorite of the European market according to a Golden Joystick vote...and my reprisal is in regards to differences of opinion...
Simply stated, I believe it is not as well liked in the US, and the USA based awards will show this..
Reason that my large guild is disbanded, and the European guilds are growing..
Cheers!
Well that's well and good for Playstation 2 games, remember though we were talking about PC games. Japan is not part of Europe. Just an FYI.... thought I'd remind you of that little snag in your argument there.
Oh and by the way. I play on US servers and our guild is U.S. based. So, how does that figure into your "forumla"? Especially since our guild is as big or bigger than DB's?
Yeah, the guild I was in until this weekend was over twice as big as DBs and on a US server (left it for a smaller guild). Showed no signs of slowing down, new applicants were appearing on the board daily. Had just crossed the 250 mark when I left, I've very rarely seen a guild grow that fast.
But, we all know that I must be lying about that because LoTRO is a critical and financial failure reviled by all but a few desperate fanboys that hang out on this board . . .
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Yeah, the guild I was in until this weekend was over twice as big as DBs and on a US server (left it for a smaller guild). Showed no signs of slowing down, new applicants were appearing on the board daily. Had just crossed the 250 mark when I left, I've very rarely seen a guild grow that fast. But, we all know that I must be lying about that because LoTRO is a critical and financial failure reviled by all but a few desperate fanboys that hang out on this board . . .
Yes, that is right Yeebo. Anyone that says any US-based servers or kinships are doing well are most definitely lying and probably a paid employee of Turbine to boot.
How do we know this? Well, because we have been exposed to the "Truth" and the "Facts". If you ever have a doubt about what you are experiencing in game just come here and look for a few posters that even though they don't like the game and don't play it anymore... they will set us straight.
I would not make the mistake of generalizing people based on the geographical locations they live in. I strongly believe that every kind of personality lives in every single country in this world (I worked together closely with people from over 15 countries in the world. Currently I am in daily contact with customers from almost every countty in central and eastern Europe, and from the Middle-East as well (UAE, Saudi, Lybia, Iran, Pakistan, etc... my boss is from India, my closest colleagues are from the UK, Ireland, Moldova, Germany, France, the Netherlands.). I also occasionally work with Latin-American and Chinese/Japanese people, as well as US guys
You would be shocked to know how very very similar we all are in the same environments. True for the same workplaces/jobs, and true for MMOS. DB
And now you assume I generalize... No assumption needed, you clearly did it. Check wikipedia if you're not sure of the meaning of the word! (remember... subjectivity and objectivity tricked you once too
Examples...
Final Fantasy X
"2,140,000-unit shipment — 1,926,000 units — within just the first four days of release in Japan,"
Once among the top twenty best-selling console games of all time, as of March 2006, the game's consistent sales have earned it the position of the second best-selling Final Fantasy game
But, in the US market
"he game has been rated the US market's 11th best selling game of the 21st century,"
Actual quotes...
So, sales were considerably larger overseas...
Now..take KOTOR....a Western Developed title
"The general critical response was extremely enthusiastic. KotOR won numerous awards, including Game Developers Choice Awards' game of the year, BAFTA Games Awards' best Xbox game of the year, and Interactive Achievement Awards for best console RPG and best computer RPG.[3]KotOR has seen success as the game of the year from many sources including IGN, Gamespot, Computer Gaming World, PC Gamer, GMR Magazine, The Game Developers Choice Awards, Xbox Magazine, and G4.[3] Interactive Achievement Awards awarded it for best story and best character development.[3] IGN gave KotOR additional awards in Best Sound (Xbox category), Best Story (PC category), Xbox RPG Game of the Year 2003, PC RPG Game of the Year 2003, Xbox Game of the Year 2003, PC Game of the Year 2003, and Overall Game of the Year 2003 across all platforms"
But, no mention of European awards or sales...
And then take the Xbox as a perfect example of a great selling machine in the US, that just cannot break free overseas...
There are differences in taste, just like you love LOTRO, and I do not...
Simple, but with some detailed data above...sorry if you cant accept we are different...
Cheers!
Ok, let's analyze this mega-twister.
I never said anything about difference in cultures, I was mentioning difference between people (and that these are much smaller then what you imagine. There's a lot of brainwashing I know, but people in Asia and the Middle-East are not that different when you come down to the indivudal's level. Trust me on this.
As for cultures, and so called "leaders" of them (manipulators and tyrants, puppets of moneybags and racial bigots etc.), that's a whole lot of difference. Anyway let's not go into this.
For MMO markets - yes, Asia and the western world are different. But Europe and the US are hardly. There are tiny differences, but the market (as the culture) are about 95-98% the same. The only thing I can bring up as a difference is the hypocrisy way - in Europe, nakedness and sexual reference is a lot more tolerated than extreme violence. In the US it is the opposite. This is based on history mostly. But I am really really very happy for living in Europe for this reason I prefer sex rather than a bloody massacre )
By the way, there is no such thing as "European" market. There is UK market, German market, French market etc.... countries in the "Eastern Half" have still much less buying power than the west, but it is growing slowly (not necessarily steadily). Other aspects of culture (than MMO or videogames) are, of course, much more different from each other in European countries, but there are some fundamental basics which are common (in most of them).
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Simply stated, I believe it is not as well liked in the US, and the USA based awards will show this.. Reason that my large guild is disbanded, and the European guilds are growing.. Cheers!
Do you actually, truly believe what you are writing?
Do you seriously believe that your own misfortunate kinship is a true, valid and justfied representation of the whole US market?
If not - why are you trolling?
If yes - you need help!
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Comments
While soloing up to a point is possible in LOTRO, I guess by the mid-20's or so, the devs figure you must have played enough to find a guild by then, so the abundance of group-only quests won't hinder your fun much.
And we need to remember ....a dedicated guild or kinship requires a good game with options for guilds...
Most of my guild were 30+ years of age...but left to pursue other games...not an issue with the kinship...just an issue with the game...
Cheers!
Yup... not every game is for every person.Our kinship is still growing (not everyone that has started is still playing) and is larger now than when the game began. About 100 players give or take a few.
While soloing up to a point is possible in LOTRO, I guess by the mid-20's or so, the devs figure you must have played enough to find a guild by then, so the abundance of group-only quests won't hinder your fun much.
And we need to remember ....a dedicated guild or kinship requires a good game with options for guilds...
Most of my guild were 30+ years of age...but left to pursue other games...not an issue with the kinship...just an issue with the game...
Cheers!
Yup... not every game is for every person.Our kinship is still growing (not everyone that has started is still playing) and is larger now than when the game began. About 100 players give or take a few.
Same here - except for what I wrote below - it has now split up into a "hardcore" and a "casual" guild. We also started a kind of cooperation with a UK guild, for easier organisation of large raids in the future. I like the way things evolve in this area.DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
Wednesdays are scheduled for helping lower level members finish quests and work through the story-line quests.
Fridays are Raids night; with a different instance scheduled each week. When each one has been completed they start at the beginning and do them again.
Tuesdays are Alternates night. Everyone that wants to participate logs on with their alternate character(s) and we work through the lower level quests again.
Mondays are for fun things like Racing, Role-Playing events, Player-made quests or Session play.
The other nights vary from week to week depending on what people vote on doing from the web page.
If you go with a group of friends, odds are you'd have a blast, and report how awsome the party was.
...Err, something like that anyway.
Are you not playing on the European servers? Isnt that where the Golden Joysticks voted LOTRO GOTY?
Fascinating...
How much have you played on the US servers? Usually the Europeon population has a different opinion on RPG's than the US...like the European market LOVES Fina Fantasy games...yet, the US audience is usually lukewarm to these titles...but here Halo 3 sells like hotcakes...but does less than stellar oversea's...
Interesting to see the differences of opinion of various cultures when "discussing" games..
Thanks
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
I will add "... in my/their opinon to "Bad game", and will not run that circle again, ok?As for the stutter - no bending please. I never said you don't have that stutter. I just said that more people don't have it then those who do. This is my own experience, not the general "truth". Comparisons to EQ2 was not really a good idea from you.... so let's just leave it die peacefully.
You can post whatever you want, it will only prove that you can insert links in here, so.... not much point.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I do have a question on this..Are you not playing on the European servers? Isnt that where the Golden Joysticks voted LOTRO GOTY?
Fascinating...
How much have you played on the US servers? Usually the Europeon population has a different opinion on RPG's than the US...like the European market LOVES Fina Fantasy games...yet, the US audience is usually lukewarm to these titles...but here Halo 3 sells like hotcakes...but does less than stellar oversea's...
Interesting to see the differences of opinion of various cultures when "discussing" games..
Thanks
I would not make the mistake of generalizing people based on the geographical locations they live in. I strongly believe that every kind of personality lives in every single country in this world (I worked together closely with people from over 15 countries in the world. Currently I am in daily contact with customers from almost every countty in central and eastern Europe, and from the Middle-East as well (UAE, Saudi, Lybia, Iran, Pakistan, etc... my boss is from India, my closest colleagues are from the UK, Ireland, Moldova, Germany, France, the Netherlands.). I also occasionally work with Latin-American and Chinese/Japanese people, as well as US guys
You would be shocked to know how very very similar we all are in the same environments. True for the same workplaces/jobs, and true for MMOS.
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
I will add "... in my/their opinon to "Bad game", and will not run that circle again, ok?As for the stutter - no bending please. I never said you don't have that stutter. I just said that more people don't have it then those who do. This is my own experience, not the general "truth". Comparisons to EQ2 was not really a good idea from you.... so let's just leave it die peacefully.
You can post whatever you want, it will only prove that you can insert links in here, so.... not much point.
DB
Yet...your wording indicates that you do NOT believe I have it...even though proof was provided...I have bent zero of your words...And as a matter of fact, when I said I had better luck running EQ2, you then jumped on the "hater" bandwagon, and decided to post a poll about EQ2 vs. LOTRO...again, like I was telling a lie.
No...I am afraid since those old posts, we do not agree, and we will always disagree...but, you make sure that every post I write, you instantly post an opposite of what it is (and sandage and Dragonace..) and even make sure to throw in a jibe,,,
Almost as if you feel I may be right...and the only way to protect yourself is to cut me down...again...very interesting..
And still no proof of counter arguments...it is one thing to say something and expect others to believe, and another to provide proof...
I guess I will always be the Scully to your Mulder eh?
Cheers!
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
Yup... I used to play EQ2 for awhile as well... back in the day. For quite awhile as well (about 1.5 years).The difference? I moved on. I don't feel the need to go and harass the players of that game and post again, and again about the parts of the game that I didn't like. I don't rag on SOE for all the "evils" that they have done (in fact, in other forums I've even been called an SOE "fanboi").
Why you may ask?
Because I don't see the point in being such a negative person. I don't see the point in purposefully being a jerk in other game's forums. In the end, it's all a matter of preference I guess. I prefer to spend the majority of my forum time on a forum for a game I'm playing and that I like. Doesn't everyone?
If posters want to be known for being the "troll" of such-and-such forum. Well, then I guess that's their choice. Personally I'd rather be known as a poster in a forum for a game I like and play than for one that I don't play and despise.
Yes...already told you...and I also have already had 5 join EQ2 after their trial when I got in contact with them to find out what they were up to......so, sorry, but my answer stands..Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
I will add "... in my/their opinon to "Bad game", and will not run that circle again, ok?As for the stutter - no bending please. I never said you don't have that stutter. I just said that more people don't have it then those who do. This is my own experience, not the general "truth". Comparisons to EQ2 was not really a good idea from you.... so let's just leave it die peacefully.
You can post whatever you want, it will only prove that you can insert links in here, so.... not much point.
DB
Yet...your wording indicates that you do NOT believe I have it...even though proof was provided...I have bent zero of your words...And as a matter of fact, when I said I had better luck running EQ2, you then jumped on the "hater" bandwagon, and decided to post a poll about EQ2 vs. LOTRO...again, like I was telling a lie.
No...I am afraid since those old posts, we do not agree, and we will always disagree...but, you make sure that every post I write, you instantly post an opposite of what it is (and sandage and Dragonace..) and even make sure to throw in a jibe,,,
Almost as if you feel I may be right...and the only way to protect yourself is to cut me down...again...very interesting..
And still no proof of counter arguments...it is one thing to say something and expect others to believe, and another to provide proof...
I guess I will always be the Scully to your Mulder eh?
Cheers!
LOL - maybe because English is my third language, I am not sure... the highlighted text means _exactly_ and precisely that I DO believe you had the stutter. Maybe I need to learn more English... I apologize for that.
I also have a difficulty in understanding how in the hell can someone be a "hater" for placing a poll? You know, I could only place one single vote out of the 84 votes in total.... you're trying really hard to demonize me
this is flattering!
BTW, Scully would have gone crazy with this many Mulder's around
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
And now you assume I generalize...
Examples...
Final Fantasy X
"2,140,000-unit shipment — 1,926,000 units — within just the first four days of release in Japan,"
Once among the top twenty best-selling console games of all time, as of March 2006, the game's consistent sales have earned it the position of the second best-selling Final Fantasy game
But, in the US market
"he game has been rated the US market's 11th best selling game of the 21st century,"
Actual quotes...
So, sales were considerably larger overseas...
Now..take KOTOR....a Western Developed title
"The general critical response was extremely enthusiastic. KotOR won numerous awards, including Game Developers Choice Awards' game of the year, BAFTA Games Awards' best Xbox game of the year, and Interactive Achievement Awards for best console RPG and best computer RPG.[3] KotOR has seen success as the game of the year from many sources including IGN, Gamespot, Computer Gaming World, PC Gamer, GMR Magazine, The Game Developers Choice Awards, Xbox Magazine, and G4.[3] Interactive Achievement Awards awarded it for best story and best character development.[3] IGN gave KotOR additional awards in Best Sound (Xbox category), Best Story (PC category), Xbox RPG Game of the Year 2003, PC RPG Game of the Year 2003, Xbox Game of the Year 2003, PC Game of the Year 2003, and Overall Game of the Year 2003 across all platforms"
But, no mention of European awards or sales...
And then take the Xbox as a perfect example of a great selling machine in the US, that just cannot break free overseas...
There are differences in taste, just like you love LOTRO, and I do not...
Simple, but with some detailed data above...sorry if you cant accept we are different...
Cheers!
Why did I even bother clicking on this thread
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Reason?....Bad game...
As to the stutter...well, I still feel you have it...you just have not proven me wrong yet...seems you promised a video and never delivered...but mine still exists along with quite a few from other people as well..
Shall I post those Youtube videos again?
Cheers!
I will add "... in my/their opinon to "Bad game", and will not run that circle again, ok?As for the stutter - no bending please. I never said you don't have that stutter. I just said that more people don't have it then those who do. This is my own experience, not the general "truth". Comparisons to EQ2 was not really a good idea from you.... so let's just leave it die peacefully.
You can post whatever you want, it will only prove that you can insert links in here, so.... not much point.
DB
Yet...your wording indicates that you do NOT believe I have it...even though proof was provided...I have bent zero of your words...And as a matter of fact, when I said I had better luck running EQ2, you then jumped on the "hater" bandwagon, and decided to post a poll about EQ2 vs. LOTRO...again, like I was telling a lie.
No...I am afraid since those old posts, we do not agree, and we will always disagree...but, you make sure that every post I write, you instantly post an opposite of what it is (and sandage and Dragonace..) and even make sure to throw in a jibe,,,
Almost as if you feel I may be right...and the only way to protect yourself is to cut me down...again...very interesting..
And still no proof of counter arguments...it is one thing to say something and expect others to believe, and another to provide proof...
I guess I will always be the Scully to your Mulder eh?
Cheers!
No.I just like to point out the kind of poster it takes to continually come back to a game's forums when it's abundantly clear what opinion you have of that game. It's one thing to pop in from time to time to check up on how things are progressing. It's something else to obsess on it.
When your posts are 4x as many on the forum for a game you dislike compared to a game you like and play regularly. It may be time to step back and see what the real issue is.
Are you sure you like EQ2 more than LoTRo? Your forum posts and the time you spend writing and thinking about LoTRo would seem to belie what your words have said.
Just think of all the positive things you could have posted in the EQ2 forums in that time. Just think of the benefits your insight may have had on some conundrum that befuddled your fellow players' in the EQ2 forum. See... even though you seem to say your love is EQ2... your actions speak differently. Is that why you are so upset on these forums?
Umm.... talk about "working the numbers"!
Does anyone else see a problem with the "FACTS" that openedge is using there? Did you take any statistics classes in high school or college? From the two quotes and the conclusion that you drew from them; I'm going to assume NO.
For someone who prides themselves on their research and their links to proof. I'm pretty disappointed in you openedge.
Edit: Oh, and what does this have to do with the original topic as well?
I'm not sure what your problem is with me winter, but I'm not trying to twist anything. i think you should calm down, take a breath...or at least try to just besmirch one poster at a time per post.If you think I've been attacking in this thread, you're imagining slights where there are none.
Lets face it, this thread has gone so off the rails (
) its just a pissing contest now anyway.
I apologise if somehow I misuderstood you. You did post a few messages earlier that I and 3 other posters had a problem with anyone that posted anything negative about LoTRO. Nothing could be farther from the truth as I pointed out in a follow up (one you evidently ignored, didn't see , or didn't feel worth replying too as it didn't support your arguement that anyone that doesn't flame LoTRO must be a Fanboi etc.)
I have seen you, Openedge and many many other people post negatives agaisnt LoTRO generally except with a few response to Agentsmith I have remained silent because you voice your opinions. The OP here voices his opinion as fact. I objected and you stepped in with a attack, both defending the OP (ie saying well I think he ment or everyone should automatically know its a opinion even though he states its a truth etc.) and Dismissing anyone that didn't agree with him as being against everyone that had anything negative to say about the game. (A statement you can't backup)
Its strange to me to see many of the people that post they don't like LoTRO bearing some kinda complex that they are wrongfully persecuted. If you come into any thread spouting lies expect to be called on it. (not talking about those that state their opinions) Hell call me a fanboi if you like but anyone coming here saying The Truth is LoTRO is the best game ever, or LoTRO has sold 10 million copies would get the same responce from me as those saying 'Hey I played the game for 50 levels to get to the end game, and the truth is its a piece of crap!"
Point is this is not just a LoTRO problem any forum you'll find some poster with a godhood complex stating their opinions as gods own facts (Ie The truth about VG, The Truth about WoW etc etc) it doesn't matter if its for or against the game. Guess once again I'm ranting agaisnt human nature. Openedge, Die_ Scream I've seen both of you do your fair share of glossing over and defending those that dislike LoTRO but cry foul on anyone that doesn't share your negative views. Once again Die_Scram how did you come up with your assuption that I'm against anyone / everyone with a negative view on LoTRO? I mean I assume you then have proof from the last 20 or so Anti LoTRo threads to back it up? Sorry but I really can't take your statement as anything other then a "He doesn't dislike LoTRO like us we must shut him up or show him as a idiot fanboi attack"
As pointed out some people will like the game, some people won't
Yes there are fanbois that will attack haters, but on the other hand there are just as many haters that will attack anyone with anything positive to say about the game. Overall IMO anyone that posts their opinions as fact are below contempt and those people that defend them because they share the same opinion on the game aren't much better. Flame away. IMO this has been a flame bait thread since the OP labeled it "THE TRUTH ABOUT LoTRO"
Yea, totally true. This is why it's so entertaining to be here, to piss these people of on a regular basis
DB
Is it safe to assume you three are talking about everyone except yourselves? Or just anyone who doesn't like LOTRO for various reasons?
No, I'm talking about people here who claim their OPINIONS are TRUTH you do understand the difference don't you? I have my opinions about SWG, VG and many other games but I don't go around stating that my opinions are truths that apply to everyone as the OP did. Do you believe your opinions are truths that everyone must bow too? If not then I don't see your problem. If you do then yes you are one of the people I rant against
Still wondering where you came up with your assumption. There are tons of LoTRO hate threads, you'll notice I haven't posted in most. So your arguement that I'm posting against anyone that dislikes LoTRO is just silly and not really based on anything true or factual. Try again, really you can do better with your attacks.
Have a nice day
Sorry a refresher bump for Die_Scream since he doesn't know what I'm talking about. Perhaps he wasn't attacking me and the 2 other guys, maybe he wasn't dismissing us out of hand because we were speaking out against the OP, but it seems like it to meI guess if I made a blanket staement like DiE_Scream posts agaisnt everyone that has anything positive to say about LoTRO he might not view it as a attack? (and it surely wouldn't be anymore true then what he posted above.)
<sigh> your right why do I bother?
Umm.... talk about "working the numbers"!
Does anyone else see a problem with the "FACTS" that openedge is using there? Did you take any statistics classes in high school or college? From the two quotes and the conclusion that you drew from them; I'm going to assume NO.
For someone who prides themselves on their research and their links to proof. I'm pretty disappointed in you openedge.
Edit: Oh, and what does this have to do with the original topic as well?
Ok...lets try this one then...."Square Electronic Arts announced that Final Fantasy X, a PlayStation 2 computer entertainment system exclusive and the latest installment in the best-selling Final Fantasy X series, has sold more than one million units in North America. This combined with the units shipped in Japan makes Final Fantasy X one of the top-selling PlayStation 2 games with a total of 4 million units shipped in both North America and Japan. Sales of Final Fantasy X have propelled the life-to-date sales of the series to 38 million units worldwide."
Now..YOU do the math for me...Europe or USA?
As to the topic...it is all about "truths"...the truth about LOTRO is it is a favorite of the European market according to a Golden Joystick vote...and my reprisal is in regards to differences of opinion...
Simply stated, I believe it is not as well liked in the US, and the USA based awards will show this..
Reason that my large guild is disbanded, and the European guilds are growing..
Cheers!
Heheh Strangely enough I knew as soon as I saw the Thread title it'd was another Flame bait (for lack of a better term) Thread. Still theres something oddly fasicinating about things we sometimes know are bad for us that pulls us to them anyway
So, AGAIN...by this statement...it is stated as fact..
I have never stated my opinion as FACT, unless I had something to back it up...
So, by YOUR opinion LOTRO does not suck for anyone...
By MY opinion it does for ME...
Now, here is the kicker...who is right...supposedly you think YOU are as you just stated a fact...you did not say "Me" or "I" in that sentence
And that is the whole gist of the Hot Dog discussion..semantics....You have taken what I said and added information, so that the wording is different...which is what is done here constantly by the ...oh lets call your group "fanbase"...
I even stated earlier...people like it or they don't...and what happens is the "fanbase" has decided that anyone who does NOT like it is either a troller, a flamer (hmm), or something they are not...yet, to counter the posted issues or concerns with the game...they...(the fanbase)...slam the poster of the opposite opinion...and come up with arguments of why THEY (the fanbase) are right...
Really...NO ONE is right...as stated MANY, MANY times...it is all opinion...now if people want to twist this person or that persons words, and take it personal...then yes, I feel sorry for those people...
But, do not take what has been said and turn it to your own liking, so it matches your beliefs...the last time that happened we had the ...."Crusades"
And that is what has happened to this thread....I smell a thread lock coming soon...
Cheers!
LOL - Lets not get our panties in a bunch. I was refering to your Hot Dog example as it was wrong because the other guy didn't eat it to determine if it sucked or not.
To be honest I can't stand the game. I beta tested it and decided it was not for me. To much lovie dovie LoTR fanbois for me.
But that does not change the fact that the game does not suck. It just sucked for me
Umm.... talk about "working the numbers"!
Does anyone else see a problem with the "FACTS" that openedge is using there? Did you take any statistics classes in high school or college? From the two quotes and the conclusion that you drew from them; I'm going to assume NO.
For someone who prides themselves on their research and their links to proof. I'm pretty disappointed in you openedge.
Edit: Oh, and what does this have to do with the original topic as well?
Ok...lets try this one then...."Square Electronic Arts announced that Final Fantasy X, a PlayStation 2 computer entertainment system exclusive and the latest installment in the best-selling Final Fantasy X series, has sold more than one million units in North America. This combined with the units shipped in Japan makes Final Fantasy X one of the top-selling PlayStation 2 games with a total of 4 million units shipped in both North America and Japan. Sales of Final Fantasy X have propelled the life-to-date sales of the series to 38 million units worldwide."
Now..YOU do the math for me...Europe or USA?
As to the topic...it is all about "truths"...the truth about LOTRO is it is a favorite of the European market according to a Golden Joystick vote...and my reprisal is in regards to differences of opinion...
Simply stated, I believe it is not as well liked in the US, and the USA based awards will show this..
Reason that my large guild is disbanded, and the European guilds are growing..
Cheers!
Well that's well and good for Playstation 2 games, remember though we were talking about PC games. Japan is not part of Europe. Just an FYI.... thought I'd remind you of that little snag in your argument there.
Oh and by the way. I play on US servers and our guild is U.S. based. So, how does that figure into your "forumla"? Especially since our guild is as big or bigger than DB's?
Yeah, the guild I was in until this weekend was over twice as big as DBs and on a US server (left it for a smaller guild). Showed no signs of slowing down, new applicants were appearing on the board daily. Had just crossed the 250 mark when I left, I've very rarely seen a guild grow that fast.
But, we all know that I must be lying about that because LoTRO is a critical and financial failure reviled by all but a few desperate fanboys that hang out on this board . . .
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Yes, that is right Yeebo. Anyone that says any US-based servers or kinships are doing well are most definitely lying and probably a paid employee of Turbine to boot.
How do we know this? Well, because we have been exposed to the "Truth" and the "Facts". If you ever have a doubt about what you are experiencing in game just come here and look for a few posters that even though they don't like the game and don't play it anymore... they will set us straight.
Edit: Fixed typo.
And now you assume I generalize... No assumption needed, you clearly did it. Check wikipedia if you're not sure of the meaning of the word! (remember... subjectivity and objectivity tricked you once too
Examples...
Final Fantasy X
"2,140,000-unit shipment — 1,926,000 units — within just the first four days of release in Japan,"
Once among the top twenty best-selling console games of all time, as of March 2006, the game's consistent sales have earned it the position of the second best-selling Final Fantasy game
But, in the US market
"he game has been rated the US market's 11th best selling game of the 21st century,"
Actual quotes...
So, sales were considerably larger overseas...
Now..take KOTOR....a Western Developed title
"The general critical response was extremely enthusiastic. KotOR won numerous awards, including Game Developers Choice Awards' game of the year, BAFTA Games Awards' best Xbox game of the year, and Interactive Achievement Awards for best console RPG and best computer RPG.[3] KotOR has seen success as the game of the year from many sources including IGN, Gamespot, Computer Gaming World, PC Gamer, GMR Magazine, The Game Developers Choice Awards, Xbox Magazine, and G4.[3] Interactive Achievement Awards awarded it for best story and best character development.[3] IGN gave KotOR additional awards in Best Sound (Xbox category), Best Story (PC category), Xbox RPG Game of the Year 2003, PC RPG Game of the Year 2003, Xbox Game of the Year 2003, PC Game of the Year 2003, and Overall Game of the Year 2003 across all platforms"
But, no mention of European awards or sales...
And then take the Xbox as a perfect example of a great selling machine in the US, that just cannot break free overseas...
There are differences in taste, just like you love LOTRO, and I do not...
Simple, but with some detailed data above...sorry if you cant accept we are different...
Cheers!
Ok, let's analyze this mega-twister.
I never said anything about difference in cultures, I was mentioning difference between people (and that these are much smaller then what you imagine. There's a lot of brainwashing I know, but people in Asia and the Middle-East are not that different when you come down to the indivudal's level. Trust me on this.
As for cultures, and so called "leaders" of them (manipulators and tyrants, puppets of moneybags and racial bigots etc.), that's a whole lot of difference. Anyway let's not go into this.
For MMO markets - yes, Asia and the western world are different. But Europe and the US are hardly. There are tiny differences, but the market (as the culture) are about 95-98% the same. The only thing I can bring up as a difference is the hypocrisy way - in Europe, nakedness and sexual reference is a lot more tolerated than extreme violence. In the US it is the opposite. This is based on history mostly. But I am really really very happy for living in Europe for this reason
I prefer sex rather than a bloody massacre 
)
By the way, there is no such thing as "European" market. There is UK market, German market, French market etc.... countries in the "Eastern Half" have still much less buying power than the west, but it is growing slowly (not necessarily steadily). Other aspects of culture (than MMO or videogames) are, of course, much more different from each other in European countries, but there are some fundamental basics which are common (in most of them).
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Do you actually, truly believe what you are writing?
Do you seriously believe that your own misfortunate kinship is a true, valid and justfied representation of the whole US market?
If not - why are you trolling?
If yes - you need help!
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.