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Hellgate vs Titan Quest, PSU, or Dungeon Runners
Yeebo
Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
I don't really care whether the Hellgate is a "proper" MMO or not. All indications from what I've read is that no sane human would currently subscribe (and that the system for it isn't even up yet), but that in a month to six months you'll really be getting cheated if you don't subscribe. But to me that's really neither here nor there. I was a big fan of PSO, I'm more than willing to pay for access to a good action RPG. I was hoping I could get some opinions of the Hellgate in that light.
Some context: I have played a ton of action RPGs, I like the basic mechanics. So far there are only a few I'd say I really liked.
Liked: Diablo I, PSO, and both Baldur's Gates on the PS2 (for some reason)
Meh: Diablo II, Dungeon Runners, Titan Quest, Fallout X-box, Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Disliked (nearly hated): PSU, Champions of Norrath, Bard's Tale PS2, X-men legends
Try and find a pattern there. I can't save for quirks of personal taste.
In any case, a lot of reviews seem to be panning Hellgate for being an "action RPG that wants to be an MMO but really isn't." Ok, fine. I get it. But I don't give a shit whether it's a reall MMO, as I've said. If I want to play one of those, I'll play an MMO. In fact, I'm subscribing to two right now. I don't really need another one. What I haven't been able to play in years is an action RPG that really hooked me. Titan Quest came closest, and I got bored halfway through the main campaign...the first time through!
What I would like to know, from someone that has experienced maybe Titan Quest and Diablo I / II, minimally, is how it stacks up as a modern action RPG. If you compare it to say, Titan Quest or Diablo II, is it any good?
Yes, I know you could play those online with full features for free. But as I said, I don't care. I'm more than willing to pay 10 bucks a month for access to a good action RPG with a strong community (ala PSO). It's less than I usually spend on lunch, really I don't give a crap. Purely as an action RPG, how is the Hellgate?
Also, how does the launch game stack up against the demo? Will the demo give me a good sense of what the game is currently like?
Thanks!
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Comments
As an action RPG it is second to none. I've played Diablo 2, Sacred and Dungeon Runners and I can tell you that gameplay-wise it beats any of the above... and it is an absolute blast to play grouped with a friend - actually much more so than single player since it does really get progressively much harder the more people are in group.
To be honest, there are a few cons to the game atm tho:
- limited tile sets (it's all urban apocalyptic so far...)
- no respeccing
However, the game is designed in a very open-ended way and the devs are promising a lot of new content (Stonehenge with portals to other parts of the world...) and new gameplay modes such as PvP batlegrounds etc.
So, if you can keep an open mind, do try the demo for what it is - a demonstration of basic gameplay. It is extremely limited in scope but it can give you an idea how the game "feels" - the movement, the attacks, a bit of the skills etc. However it is extremely easy as well since it features only the first 5 character levels and a handful of zones.
In my opinion the game's solid gameplay is worth the 50$ out of the box and it shows a huge potential for future growth - the novel business model counts on constant updates to the game on a monthly basis.
I would say that Hellgate is a cut above all those games you listed, except for maybe The diablo series. I am currently playing, and very much enjoying hellgate right now, and I am an experienced Titan Quest/Diablo player, and I must say I am way more addicted to this than Titan Quest, probably about the same addiction factor as diablo. I would go so far as to say this is the best action rpg i have played since Diablo 2. If you are an action rpg fan, then you owe it to yourself to get this game. Most of the people who don't like it or hate on it, is because its not an mmo. Its an action rpg, with an online component, just like diablo. It was never intended, nor did the developers ever claim it to be an mmo. This is fast-paced hack-and-slashery, and being created by the original creators of diablo, it has a familiar feel, and is the "spiritual successor" to Diablo 2,with modern day graphics tech. This game in DX10 is beautiful, just make sure you have a strong machine, otherwise run it in DX9 which isn't too shabby itself. If what you stated are indeed your tastes, than this game is right up your alley. On a scale of 1-10 I'd give it a solid 9.
Yeah I agree with the repetitive level textures being the game's only problem, but considering their all randomly generated it is understandable, not to mention i'll deal with a little repetion in my surroundings for the tons of replayability that random level maps provide. I am sure that Flagship will be adding some new level textures/maps for the game in future patches, to add even more variety. And I also agree that the demo does not do the game justice. You really cant do anything except complete a few quests in the newbie station. Anyone who tells you that the demo is indicitive of the rest of the game, is either lying, or doesn't like this type of game to begin with, and is trying to turn others off to it before they even try it.
Hellgate with a strong community? You will never have a strong community in a game with no forced subscribtion. And there are plenty of good action games already like DDo or latest Tabula Rasa.
REALITY CHECK
You are wrong my friend. Any game that can be played online with other people, whether it be an mmo, action rpg, or first-person-shooter, will have a community of some sort spring up around it. For instance, Counterstrike has a tremendous (millions worldwide) community, and it is free to play online, after purchasing the game of course. Another example is Starcraft, which has perhaps a community as big as wow does, due to it being the number one game in Korea since its debut in 1998. They hold national events and tournaments solely in the name of starcraft, and have national starcraft teams that compete against each other, and are treated like football and baseball stars are treated in the west. To say a game has no community because there is no forced subscription, is just being short-sighted. Look at Guild Wars, no sub fee for that, and it has sold over 3 million copies worldwide, and has a very strong community, so what is your theory on that? If I can find enough people who like belly-button lint, and round them up into an organized club, bam! I now run a belly-button lint fan community.
Thank you for your short guide about history of pro-gaming. Anyway I don't think starcraft or warcraft battle net communities are good ones just because they have their nationals. They are usually complete nerds that can't say a single sentence without at least 3 spelling errors and usually use more abbrevations than complete words to show you, you are nothing to them because they have better APM. And APM is what matters in those games.
If you want a comparison in RTS communities, than a good community might had Age of Empires + Mythology. But in a MMORPG scene where subscribtion model is commonly used, a free MMORPG is a bait for all the kids that has not their own credit cards.
REALITY CHECK
THIS IS NOT AN MMO. So to compare it is like comparing apples to oranges. If you were to compare it to Titan Quest or the like it would make sense. This is an action rpg with online multiplayer. This is not an mmo, therefore your point is moot. Yes, one more time THIS IS NOT AN MMO, it is a SINGLEPLAYER ACTION RPG WITH A MULTIPLAYER COMPONENT.
Then why the hell people moaned so much that it's not on the gamelist here, until they actually added it. Yes I know this is not MMO, and the community should be compared to NWN, Diablo or Titan. The question is, what the hell it is doing on mmorpg website.
REALITY CHECK
Why must you belittle something b/c you do not enjoy it? Where have all your tolerance, understand and sympathy gone? Or you deliberately want to behave like a NERD here??
Then why the hell people moaned so much that it's not on the gamelist here, until they actually added it. Yes I know this is not MMO, and the community should be compared to NWN, Diablo or Titan. The question is, what the hell it is doing on mmorpg website.
And the answer is: A lot of people requested it up here, so they added it, simple as that. I agree it does not belong, but tell that to the scores of diablo fans who clamored for it to be added to the gamelist and forums. This is, in fact, the doing of the community that you say it doesn't have. The community was strong enough to get a site that is dedicated to mmorpgs, to add an action rpg to its site. Does it belong? Probably not, but a hell of a lot of people must've thought otherwise. But since it is here, why not discuss it if you enjoy it? If you don't like it, don't play it. If you do, then yay for you also. There is no need to flame a forum that is for people who play the game and like it.
Why must you belittle something b/c you do not enjoy it? Where have all your tolerance, understand and sympathy gone? Or you deliberately want to behave like a NERD here??
English is not my native language I speak slovak, polish, english and german. So your attempt to insult my intolerance towards people that know only their native language is not relevant.In addition I wasn't talking about koreans, i was talking about english players that still doesnt bother to spell correctly or not use abbrevation as a replacement for every word with 4 or more latters.
REALITY CHECK
So what exactly is wrong with my english? It is my native language, and as far as I can see, I have not misspelled anything. Actually, I have been told I write quite well. Seeing as I do it for a living, what exactly have I done to make you believe me an imbecile?
Then why the hell people moaned so much that it's not on the gamelist here, until they actually added it. Yes I know this is not MMO, and the community should be compared to NWN, Diablo or Titan. The question is, what the hell it is doing on mmorpg website.
And the answer is: A lot of people requested it up here, so they added it, simple as that. I agree it does not belong, but tell that to the scores of diablo fans who clamored for it to be added to the gamelist and forums. This is, in fact, the doing of the community that you say it doesn't have. The community was strong enough to get a site that is dedicated to mmorpgs, to add an action rpg to its site. Does it belong? Probably not, but a hell of a lot of people must've thought otherwise. But since it is here, why not discuss it if you enjoy it? If you don't like it, don't play it. If you do, then yay for you also. There is no need to flame a forum that is for people who play the game and like it.
These forums are not official ones, I'm surprised to see you having hard time accepting a bit of critique. I am not bashing it for no reason. And I never said what i write is a 100% true, it's my humble opinion. From my past experience games like this had a horrible community. Maybe you had different experience, or maybe you like that kind of community. People are reading these forums to know other people's opinions. Not only favourable but also negative. It's not an excuse to be a troll of course.
REALITY CHECK
I have criticisms of my own as I have posted earlier. The original disagreement was that because this game does not force a subscription fee, it therefore cannot have a community. Do you not remember this? You should, as you stated it like it was common knowledge. I disagreed and gave a logical response. I have not called you any names, nor insulted you in any way, shape, or form. But yet, you call me the "Troll", as if I came in and told you to go f*** yourself, and praised the games brillance at the same time. Well we all know this is not the case at all. As you would know if you read my earlier posts, I do have criticisms of this game like the repetitive levels and such, so I am no fanboy, just a guy who picked up this game and liked it, as the postives far outweigh the negatives. And that my friend is my opinion, its a good game.
You would be right if I said that. But I said free MMORPG can't have a strong community, not just a community. Of course they have some community.
REALITY CHECK
Well i apologize for the misunderstanding. This game does indeed have a strong community though, and that was all I was trying to say. Also there are numerous free mmos, like Silkroad Online, RF Online, and 9 Dragons, that are quite good actually, and have very strong communities.You don't have to be an mmorpg to have a strong community though. If anyone likes this game I understand it, and if anyone hates this game I understand that too.
Stop me, im going too much offtopic
REALITY CHECK
I don't hate the game, I hate the few people behind it that called themselves RPG authorities. In my opinion Diablo destroyed any future attempts to do a proper RPG single player games and dumbed the whole genre into action game with rpg features that many companies tried to copy after that. That's why we won't see another Arcanum or Fallout 1/2 or Planescape Torment or Morrowind. Oblivion is already dumbed down as well, and I'm sure Bethseda will do the same with Fallout 3.Stop me, im going too much offtopic
I do not believe myself to be an "RPG authority". And how exactly is oblivion dumbed down? Because they improved the graphics and combat system? I am a huge elder scrolls fan, and I do not see how Bethesda has dumbed it down. Matter of fact, I have always applauded Bethesda for being one of the only companies to still make true rpgs these days. All i saw in Oblivion was improvements and added depth to the series. I loved Morrowind with all my heart and soul....except for the bland combat. Well Oblivion made the combat more deep and exciting. Diablo created a sub-genre, just like early mmos created one as well. So would it be fair to say that the popularity of mmos has ruined the offline rpg? I hope not. I like to think games that create new genres or sub-genres, are just giving us a new choice, a new way to play something we enjoy. Can choice and variety really be a bad thing?
Stop me, im going too much offtopic
I do not believe myself to be an "RPG authority". And how exactly is oblivion dumbed down? Because they improved the graphics and combat system? I am a huge elder scrolls fan, and I do not see how Bethesda has dumbed it down. Matter of fact, I have always applauded Bethesda for being one of the only companies to still make true rpgs these days. All i saw in Oblivion was improvements and added depth to the series. I loved Morrowind with all my heart and soul....except for the bland combat. Well Oblivion made the combat more deep and exciting. Diablo created a sub-genre, just like early mmos created one as well. So would it be fair to say that the popularity of mmos has ruined the offline rpg? I hope not. I like to think games that create new genres or sub-genres, are just giving us a new choice, a new way to play something we enjoy. Can choice and variety really be a bad thing?
Heh and again, I wasnt talking about you. The devs of Hellgate call themselves RPG authorities - read this : http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/overview/gameID/314To oblivion, it wasn't really RPG. It didnt give a feeling of RPG. For me RPG should have many ways of finishing quests, giving you a freedom to form your character's personality. Arcanum had 5-6 different ways of finishing a quest. Just one of the first quests in game where you were sent by a representative of a poor village to remove some brigands that were asking from travellersa toll to pass an important bridge. You could simply kill them, or you could convince them to leave, or you could bluff them you're part of thief's underground and they even payed you something, or you could ask to join their group and they actually gave you a counter-quest to destroy wooden boards that were supposed to be used by the villagers that wanted to build another bridge!
You see there were hundreds of quests like this and they created a personality for your character. Oblivion has only 1 way of doing any quests, it's quests are linear as they could be, it leads you by the hand and shows you directions to every quest location. The leveling system was dumbed to hell to be suited for consoles, and im not mentioning yet the fact that the mobs around were improving as you leveled up and made. So the bandits in a small cave were just some poor thieves when you were level 1, but become super bandits with ebony gear when you were level 30. And this was with everything in that game.
REALITY CHECK
Chalk it up to difference of opinion I guess. Some would say they have the right to say that they are the rpg authority, because they created diablo and helped develop world of warcraft. Some such as yourself believe they do not. I myself am on your side on this topic, as I believe no one company is an authority on anything.
Also the things in oblivion you believe are dumbed down features, I believe are improved ones. The braindead ai, and lifeless, mannequin-like npcs in morrowind were better? More linear quests? Did you play the same game as me? Depending on what your skills are, there are many approaches to missions in oblivion. The chop-chop-chop-chop-chop-stiff death animation-dead monster-combat in morrowind was deeper and/or better? The linear interaction/bribe system in morrowind is better than the radiant ai in oblvion? In morrowind I could slap someone, run out a door, heal, then run back in, and repeat this to my heart's content. In oblivion, I tried the same thing, and the guy not only chased me to the outside of his house, but had grabbed a weapon on the way out, and continued to chase me, calling out to passerbys to help him catch me, which in fact some did. There are many quests with similar mechanics to the games like fallout and arcanum, which aren't all cut and dried, black and white. There are also many choices to be made in oblivion, and how people feel about you actually matters more and does more than someone selling you something cheaper in a shop, or giving you extra information. You actually get realistic reactions from them other then talking or attacking, and they have daily routines, and random conversations about recent in game events you may or may not be involved in. Dumbed down? Nah. The game feels more immersive than morrowind did in my opinion. And like I said, I was and still am a big Morrowind fan, but Oblivion made neccesary improvements to the overal engine and mechanics.
Well, I disagree with this statement. As the game stands now I would agree with you for the most part. Still it does have guilds including its own guild channel. And in the near future FSS is supposed to add an Auction House and guild housing. So it does have MMO features. If they would fix the chat I think the MMO aspect would come out more.
Well, I disagree with this statement. As the game stands now I would agree with you for the most part. Still it does have guilds including its own guild channel. And in the near future FSS is supposed to add an Auction House and guild housing. So it does have MMO features. If they would fix the chat I think the MMO aspect would come out more.
Well Guild Wars, DDO, and Fury have these features also, and they are not considered mmos. Even Arenanet, the makers of Guild Wars have said many times that Guild Wars is not an mmo. Guild Wars has guild halls and all that stuff, yet it has the same kind of setup, where you meet people in hubs, then go out into an intanced copy of the world for just you and your party, to tackle quests. The world is not persistent, as in when you leave town you will see a barren wasteland, besides yourself, your party, npcs, and monsters of course. In mmorpgs, the world is persistent, though it may be broken into zones (or may not be, as in vanguard it is all one big zone), it is still persistent, and instances are mostly only used for dungeons and raids, and in some mmos instances are not used at all. Hellgate has a lot more in common(and always will), with Diablo 2, Guild Wars, DDO, and Titan quest, than say, World of warcraft, or Everquest.