Originally posted by Orphes Originally posted by Salindra Whats your definition of complicated? Vanguard is NOT complicated. Combat is the same as any other combat system in mmos (auto target, auto attack, Hit your special combo move) Very standard. Crafting well its crafting. Maybe the only complicated thing about the game is diplo and takes some time to learn.
Trying it is the only way your going to find out if this is truely what your looking for. Vanguard is not a bad game, its just NOT complicated. EVE is probably the most complicated MMO out there if that is truely what you desire. I don't play EVE atm but from past experiences it sure made me put my thinking cap on when I tried it.
What is so complicated with EVE? Select target, turn on weapons, fly in circles. What is complicated with any game around?
exactly. This whole 'vanguards a complex and complicated MMO' routine is something the vanbois defensively used during beta when people were concerned about bugs and performance problems. Its no longer relevant,yet still people will blurt out that it requires a degree in nuclear physics to get anywhere in vanguard.
What is so complicated with EVE? Select target, turn on weapons, fly in circles.
What is complicated with any game around?
exactly.
This whole 'vanguards a complex and complicated MMO' routine is something the vanbois defensively used during beta when people were concerned about bugs and performance problems.
Its no longer relevant,yet still people will blurt out that it requires a degree in nuclear physics to get anywhere in vanguard.
I don't think things are more complicated in Vanguard then in other games for example. I think there is more things to do to get to the point where you want to be. Mostly in crafting, but that would be blatantly obvious as someone put it. Crafting in some games are just more of a casting time. But that doesn't make it complicated(not in the sence I read complicated) that put it as one have to interact with more to craft wich imo makes Vanguard fun in that aspect.
Then with diplomacy where one could easily put as one have to interact more to get alot of the lore from the game. Besides the buff and puff one can do with diplomacy.
I like the chains you get when you crit, I like that a ranger can create arrows, I like it when you can do different series of attacks to get a chance of a debuff bonus on the target. And so on.
But the gameplay is simply put in all of these game, select target, attack target, win or loose.
But I do think there are more to the eyes in Vanguard then one thinks. Alor of things depends on what one thinks is complicated is more interaction complicated or do one think that if one puts it out simple that it is just the same just different shades of greys, don't know. I think I've lost myself here, because games are complicated in a sence of the meaning and then they are not.
Wait for one of the new mmo's comeing out . war,aoc,......darkfall
Ok so you are actually suggesting that they are something else then different shades of grey in this matter? I think we have seen all of it now. It is not like you are gonna dress yourself with a virtual reality suit taken from Lawnmover Man.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people think EVE, Vanguard, EQ, UO, AO, and the rest are challenging. A lot of people also think high school was challenging.
High school or MMOs are not challening. Every single one is a tedious timesink, aka, grind. There is no game in any genre or platform that a ten year couldn't master. Just because Dropout Joe finds <insert game> difficult doesn't mean those of us who are actually intelligent will have any hard time finding the buttons on our keyboard.
There is nothing complicated about Vanguard. Its just as simple as WoW or EQ II, with no kind of choices anywhere in the development for your character or playstyle. The ONLY complex games on the market are EVE and Anarchy Online. Semicomplex would be Ultima Online and... and... No, SWG is not anymore, but at least it was.
ALL the rest, including Vanguard, are just EQ clones, one class, one skill, one progression tree, simplistic no choices walk in the park playstyle. Please don't listen to the Vanguard fans in this regard, they want to feel they are playing a more "mature" game than WoW, but the truth is, Vanguard is closer to WoW than it is to EQ.
Wrong.
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
There is nothing complicated about Vanguard. Its just as simple as WoW or EQ II, with no kind of choices anywhere in the development for your character or playstyle. The ONLY complex games on the market are EVE and Anarchy Online. Semicomplex would be Ultima Online and... and... No, SWG is not anymore, but at least it was.
ALL the rest, including Vanguard, are just EQ clones, one class, one skill, one progression tree, simplistic no choices walk in the park playstyle. Please don't listen to the Vanguard fans in this regard, they want to feel they are playing a more "mature" game than WoW, but the truth is, Vanguard is closer to WoW than it is to EQ.
Wrong.
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Who flippin' cares. Vanguard is not WoW and WoW is not Vanguard. If Vanguard were anything remotely like WoW I would have never even picked this game up and all I can say is thank god this game is not WoW! As for complicated...not even SWG was complicated. Sure all these games have a bit of a learning curve(all of them) but you don't have to be a rocket scientest to learn how to play "any" of these games.
So your arguements (both of you that are debating this) is a moot point.
It would help if you people who claim this game is complicated give us some examples on how it is. And by complicated I mean that it takes more than the average intelligence of a 13 year old to be succesful, which seems to be how it is in 99 % of all MMORPGs.
Try a Bloodmage...
I'm sure there is some semi-safe combo to use as far as mana-efficiency under basic circumstances. This class seems to be very complex though. Personally, I didn't have the patience or time in groups to master this class.
Anyway, if you play it again sometime; try it out(in groups).
Originally posted by kanechart I'm tired of boring none complicated mmo's. I hear vanguard has more? and is there a Trial?
I really need to get out of switching to a new MMO per week finding them just another boring grindfest with no complicated tradeskills and such.
I read some reviews and it looks like VG is worth a shot but I wanted know if anyone has a buddy key/trial key I could use. I would like to see and make my pc can play it smooth since some people with great hardware tend to have different issues.
Thanks
I play Vanguard and have done since beta.
Its a great game if you like nothing to be easy, its the whole point to Vanguard and a contrast to WoW, LOTR etc etc
Because the game is so huge, some areas do need some work but these are getting few and far between as the game updates.
Trade skills are very complicated and are a grind fest but an interesting one, its not a simple skill check for sure, probably one of the most complicated trade skill systems in any game.
VG needs a high performance PC to play on max (unlike other games) and suffers from lag but is getting better each patch.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
In my view, four factors distinguish Vanguard from the other "non-complicated" MMOs.
1) Time Things take longer. 2) World The world is big and hard to get around in. The World is also quite interesting, beautiful but under-utilized. 3) Death Penalty The Death Penalty is harsh. You lose your corpse, experience, and your gear becomes damaged. 4) Lack It is lacking things such as character customization, fun stuff such as fishing, a workable and fun PvP system, and much more.
SOE will be eliminating numbers 1,2, and 3, soon according to the latest producer's letter by dummying down the game. Vanguard will become less complicated, challenging, however you want to phrase it.
In my view, four factors distinguish Vanguard from the other "non-complicated" MMOs.
1) Time Things take longer. 2) World The world is big and hard to get around in. The World is also quite interesting, beautiful but under-utilized. 3) Death Penalty The Death Penalty is harsh. You lose your corpse, experience, and your gear becomes damaged. 4) Lack It is lacking things such as character customization, fun stuff such as fishing, a workable and fun PvP system, and much more.
SOE will be eliminating numbers 1,2, and 3, soon according to the latest producer's letter by dummying down the game. Vanguard will become less complicated, challenging, however you want to phrase it.
Not true. From the SOE announcements, the first raid instance will have 25 bosses and will be one of the most challening instances ever. At least that's what they say but if you have better information let us know.
I don't know how they gonna change your second point. They are not gonna decrease the size of the world, or do any other changes to it apart from the faster travel options, so what are you talking about.
And the day they gonna add fishing into game, Ill quit instantly.
There is nothing complicated about Vanguard. Its just as simple as WoW or EQ II, with no kind of choices anywhere in the development for your character or playstyle. The ONLY complex games on the market are EVE and Anarchy Online. Semicomplex would be Ultima Online and... and... No, SWG is not anymore, but at least it was.
ALL the rest, including Vanguard, are just EQ clones, one class, one skill, one progression tree, simplistic no choices walk in the park playstyle. Please don't listen to the Vanguard fans in this regard, they want to feel they are playing a more "mature" game than WoW, but the truth is, Vanguard is closer to WoW than it is to EQ.
Wrong.
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Who flippin' cares. Vanguard is not WoW and WoW is not Vanguard. If Vanguard were anything remotely like WoW I would have never even picked this game up and all I can say is thank god this game is not WoW! As for complicated...not even SWG was complicated. Sure all these games have a bit of a learning curve(all of them) but you don't have to be a rocket scientest to learn how to play "any" of these games.
So your arguements (both of you that are debating this) is a moot point.
You may not have to be a rocket scientist to play EVE.... but it would certainly help.....
Anyone who thinks EVE isn't complicated and tough to master really hasn't taken the time to fully understand it... (and no, I'm not referring to the combat mechanics)
I've been playing for 5 months now..and I'm still learning new stuff every day..... and some things I'll never learn.....
Edit: Forgot to stay on topic.... VG isn't WOW...but I wouldn't call it complicated either....just different and more detailed in some areas like character classes and crafting...... but the quests and what not are standard fare........
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In my view, four factors distinguish Vanguard from the other "non-complicated" MMOs.
1) Time Things take longer. 2) World The world is big and hard to get around in. The World is also quite interesting, beautiful but under-utilized. 3) Death Penalty The Death Penalty is harsh. You lose your corpse, experience, and your gear becomes damaged. 4) Lack It is lacking things such as character customization, fun stuff such as fishing, a workable and fun PvP system, and much more.
SOE will be eliminating numbers 1,2, and 3, soon according to the latest producer's letter by dummying down the game. Vanguard will become less complicated, challenging, however you want to phrase it.
Not true. From the SOE announcements, the first raid instance will have 25 bosses and will be one of the most challening instances ever. At least that's what they say but if you have better information let us know.
I don't know how they gonna change your second point. They are not gonna decrease the size of the world, or do any other changes to it apart from the faster travel options, so what are you talking about.
And the day they gonna add fishing into game, Ill quit instantly.
Raiding is not challenging or complicated. It's easier to achieve something when you are being helped by many others as opposed to accomplishing a goal by yourself or within a small group. I've known so many raiders who rode the coattails of others while boasting of their own supposed skills. By focusing content on raiding, SOE is repeating the same mistakes they made in classic EQ, and will alienate all the soloers and small group oriented players. Raiding is a dinosaur concept that needs to die. Instancing is also a lazy developer's tool which divides the playerbase by reducing interaction and destroys immersion.
When you ignore realistic travel times and create faster unrealistic travel options for convenience, you minimize the world. That is excatly what happened in classic EQ. Parts of the world that used to flourish became wastelands of emptiness when they added instaports for everyone. Socializing suffered because people just ported to where their existing friends were, eliminating any chance of interacting with other players. The game world becomes smaller, immersion suffers, and community vanishes.
In my view, four factors distinguish Vanguard from the other "non-complicated" MMOs.
1) Time Things take longer. 2) World The world is big and hard to get around in. The World is also quite interesting, beautiful but under-utilized. 3) Death Penalty The Death Penalty is harsh. You lose your corpse, experience, and your gear becomes damaged. 4) Lack It is lacking things such as character customization, fun stuff such as fishing, a workable and fun PvP system, and much more.
SOE will be eliminating numbers 1,2, and 3, soon according to the latest producer's letter by dummying down the game. Vanguard will become less complicated, challenging, however you want to phrase it.
Not true. From the SOE announcements, the first raid instance will have 25 bosses and will be one of the most challening instances ever. At least that's what they say but if you have better information let us know.
I don't know how they gonna change your second point. They are not gonna decrease the size of the world, or do any other changes to it apart from the faster travel options, so what are you talking about.
And the day they gonna add fishing into game, Ill quit instantly.
Raiding is not challenging or complicated. It's easier to achieve something when you are being helped by many others as opposed to accomplishing a goal by yourself or within a small group. I've known so many raiders who rode the coattails of others while boasting of their own supposed skills. By focusing content on raiding, SOE is repeating the same mistakes they made in classic EQ, and will alienate all the soloers and small group oriented players. Raiding is a dinosaur concept that needs to die. Instancing is also a lazy developer's tool which divides the playerbase by reducing interaction and destroys immersion.
When you ignore realistic travel times and create faster unrealistic travel options for convenience, you minimize the world. That is excatly what happened in classic EQ. Parts of the world that used to flourish became wastelands of emptiness when they added instaports for everyone. Socializing suffered because people just ported to where their existing friends were, eliminating any chance of interacting with other players. The game world becomes smaller, immersion suffers, and community vanishes.
This is simply not true.
I can't imagine a situation where you can simulate the coordination needed in raids in solo gaming. Solo gaming is either: Doable or impossible. You either can do it - have the proper abilities to kill something or not. Solo playing will never have as much depth and will never be as demanding as raiding.
In addition I can't imagine how you can call raiding in VG easy. I suppose one mistake on later bosses (one small mistake of anyone in raid) will mean a wipe. Everyone will have a hard time.
I am currently an All Access member, and can play all of Sony's games. Vanguard is good, I like EQ2 better for now. I do play Vanguard . The graphics are great, there is NO game better than Vanguard in the graphics area.. The leveling is hard than most MMOs. The character generation has alot to be desired, but they are woking on that. The current patches has made the game better, but not GREAT. But in my opinion the game has no SOUL. And what I mean by that, it that I don't have that feeling of adventure. But that is just MY opinion, your's may vary. I have played all MMO's worth its weight. And if you are looking for a complex MMO, EVE is it. If you want a challenging one,Vanguard will do until the next latest and greatest. I hate WOW , it was not for me. Not saying it isn't good, just not my flavor.
But to all of the people saying that this or that game JUST SUCKS. Most are trolls and don't know what they hell they are talking about. I know people who liked Horizons. It all depends on your taste, computer and gaming knowledge. And I have been playing longer than most people have been living in the MMO world.
If I were in your shoes. I wouldn't play Vanguard until they have some kind of free trial. Enough said.
I played all the major MMORPG’s since the MUD days and as far as depth of strategy and character abilities/spells Vanguard is much more complex than the others.
This is why I play vanguard. I like to develop and perfect a variety of combat strategies and games like EQ2 and WoW just don’t compete depth wise.
I would agree that the combat system in VG is probably the best out there. After playing vg to lvl 47 I left and played some wow and now eq2. What I'm feeling is that vg has the best combat system overall. Wow is better then eq2. I think that eq2, wow, vg are probably the best all around combat systems in any mmorpg.
What I think about when I say best is giving me choices and making me think. I like having to decide what finisher or what bufs or what reactions I need to do and oh yeah work with my group to take advantage of weakness systems etc.
eq2 has the wheel but I'm not really very impressed with it. Combat in eq2 is less interesting overall. You pretty much go through the same sequence of keys and I would say it is the weakest point of the game. There is a little variety but many times I feel like I'm playing a piano tapping all my hotkeys...
Wow combat system is very good with buildups from openers and finishing moves or the variety of combat systems between classes. Each class is somewhat unique and you tend to have to think about what you are doing. I really thing wow's combat system is top notch.
VG has some similarities to wow but adds things like reactions and a few other unique triggered abilities. I like this. Where in wow you can pretty much decide before you fight what you will do in VG you tend to have to adjust during the fight as various options become available and then decide if you want to use them or not.
Vanguard has some depth. Although character customisation is lacking, combat mechanics are quite interesting. Crafting system is also more complex then in most other MMO's. Im not familiar with EVE, but I think that crafting in Vanguard is as complex as in SWG. Diplomacy is very refreshing to (at start anyway).
Downside of Vanguard was for me that it all turned into a grind. I dont know if this is changed, but the way you only did workorders to progress with crafting was so incredibly tedious. The few crafting quests didnt really change that. Same with diplomacy, the amount of civic parleys made my eyes bleed. Turned this minigame into a job. When do those devs learn that we dont mind slow progress as long as we have some differentiation. More crafting quests and more diplomacy quests (this is from my experienced 3 months from release).
I just agree with the others that they shouldnt have released it in that buggy state. I dont have any patience for that anymore. 'This game has potential', 'it needs some time' blah blah blah. Not with my money. Maybe after a new launch from SOE, I might consider it again.
Raiding is not challenging or complicated. It's easier to achieve something when you are being helped by many others as opposed to accomplishing a goal by yourself or within a small group. I've known so many raiders who rode the coattails of others while boasting of their own supposed skills. By focusing content on raiding, SOE is repeating the same mistakes they made in classic EQ, and will alienate all the soloers and small group oriented players. Raiding is a dinosaur concept that needs to die. Instancing is also a lazy developer's tool which divides the playerbase by reducing interaction and destroys immersion.
Apperantly there are player that enjoy raiding so why are you suggesting that they don't.
Why are you also suggesting that because of the solo players raidcontent should not be allowed.
There is no instance in Vanguard, and there have not been mentioning to create it either.
Because they make raiding possible for those that wants it, and apperantly there is alot of people that do, is not the same as they won't focus on other things for the game. The real focus on the game is the performance issues and all what that includes.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people think EVE, Vanguard, EQ, UO, AO, and the rest are challenging. A lot of people also think high school was challenging. High school or MMOs are not challening. Every single one is a tedious timesink, aka, grind. There is no game in any genre or platform that a ten year couldn't master. Just because Dropout Joe finds <insert game> difficult doesn't mean those of us who are actually intelligent will have any hard time finding the buttons on our keyboard.
That's bull. When AC was released it had one of the most complicated magic systems with the combination of different ingredients, which was unique for each character, to get a more powerful spell. Also the number of spells and the variation of such made it so that it would be quite dificult for an average 10 year old to master. This has since then been simplified but once it was quite complicated.
Another is Eve. It has one of the most complicated skill systems coupled with complete freedom to build your ship as you like. No lame class restrictions which exist solely to make it easier for people to create a good character and for devs to balance the different classes. Also to be succesful in Eve you will need social skills that I doubt most 10 year olds have. Also dont get me started on the crafting in that game...
So dont come with that nonsense that all MMORPGs are created equal because they are not. WoW, EQ 2 etc is designed to be easy and non complicated. Eve certainly is not.
I played all the major MMORPG’s since the MUD days and as far as depth of strategy and character abilities/spells Vanguard is much more complex than the others. This is why I play vanguard. I like to develop and perfect a variety of combat strategies and games like EQ2 and WoW just don’t compete depth wise.
Please finish your statement. It is more complicated because.....?
I mean from what I heard the character advancement is on track and with little to no customisation so no need to think there and the PvP system is so unbalanced and half finished that it is not worth doing. So what excactly is complicated?
While... this just show that it is a difference beetween complex and complicated. But anyway it was nitpicking I was talking about.
Something complex may be well-organized and logically constructed as well as subtle and intricate, while a thing that is complicated will have something irregular, perverse, asymmetrical in addition to fundamental intricacy; complex is more formal and technical (a problem in mathematics is complex) while something like personal life can be complicated
There is nothing complicated about Vanguard. Its just as simple as WoW or EQ II, with no kind of choices anywhere in the development for your character or playstyle. The ONLY complex games on the market are EVE and Anarchy Online. Semicomplex would be Ultima Online and... and... No, SWG is not anymore, but at least it was.
ALL the rest, including Vanguard, are just EQ clones, one class, one skill, one progression tree, simplistic no choices walk in the park playstyle. Please don't listen to the Vanguard fans in this regard, they want to feel they are playing a more "mature" game than WoW, but the truth is, Vanguard is closer to WoW than it is to EQ.
Wrong.
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Well lets see . mount quest in WOW run the same 8 daily quests everyday doing the exact same quest till your exalted , get mount how lame is that .
Vanguard mount quests start quest at lev 21 or so , do a quest line thats about 25 quest long that take you all over the world and has you killing multitude of different mobs. Totaly awesome fun quest line that will require you to group up and interact with other players thats if you want to get it done fast or you can solo most of it but that takes a little time
i could point out a 100 other things if you really need help figuring it out
There is nothing complicated about Vanguard. Its just as simple as WoW or EQ II, with no kind of choices anywhere in the development for your character or playstyle. The ONLY complex games on the market are EVE and Anarchy Online. Semicomplex would be Ultima Online and... and... No, SWG is not anymore, but at least it was.
ALL the rest, including Vanguard, are just EQ clones, one class, one skill, one progression tree, simplistic no choices walk in the park playstyle. Please don't listen to the Vanguard fans in this regard, they want to feel they are playing a more "mature" game than WoW, but the truth is, Vanguard is closer to WoW than it is to EQ.
Wrong.
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Well lets see . mount quest in WOW run the same 8 daily quests everyday doing the exact same quest till your exalted , get mount how lame is that .
Vanguard mount quests start quest at lev 21 or so , do a quest line thats about 25 quest long that take you all over the world and has you killing multitude of different mobs. Totaly awesome fun quest line that will require you to group up and interact with other players thats if you want to get it done fast or you can solo most of it but that takes a little time
i could point out a 100 other things if you really need help figuring it out
Well the ADD player masses that SOE wants to attract to Vanguard will find such a lengthy quest chain too complicated and frustrating, afterall, they want their mounts now and can't be bothered with earning anything, so expect the developers to make getting these mounts way easier.
There is nothing complicated about Vanguard. Its just as simple as WoW or EQ II, with no kind of choices anywhere in the development for your character or playstyle. The ONLY complex games on the market are EVE and Anarchy Online. Semicomplex would be Ultima Online and... and... No, SWG is not anymore, but at least it was.
ALL the rest, including Vanguard, are just EQ clones, one class, one skill, one progression tree, simplistic no choices walk in the park playstyle. Please don't listen to the Vanguard fans in this regard, they want to feel they are playing a more "mature" game than WoW, but the truth is, Vanguard is closer to WoW than it is to EQ.
Wrong.
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Well lets see . mount quest in WOW run the same 8 daily quests everyday doing the exact same quest till your exalted , get mount how lame is that .
Vanguard mount quests start quest at lev 21 or so , do a quest line thats about 25 quest long that take you all over the world and has you killing multitude of different mobs. Totaly awesome fun quest line that will require you to group up and interact with other players thats if you want to get it done fast or you can solo most of it but that takes a little time
i could point out a 100 other things if you really need help figuring it out
Well the ADD player masses that SOE wants to attract to Vanguard will find such a lengthy quest chain too complicated and frustrating, afterall, they want their mounts now and can't be bothered with earning anything, so expect the developers to make getting these mounts way easier.
Yeah, I can also say some random cool stuff.
I could go to the spellborn forum and state this. "The chronicles of spellborn is never gonna be released."
Like that you go to VG forum and state a random statement based on ignorance and reading what is popular to say.
Comments
Wait for one of the new mmo's comeing out . war,aoc,......darkfall
What is complicated with any game around?
exactly.
This whole 'vanguards a complex and complicated MMO' routine is something the vanbois defensively used during beta when people were concerned about bugs and performance problems.
Its no longer relevant,yet still people will blurt out that it requires a degree in nuclear physics to get anywhere in vanguard.
exactly.
This whole 'vanguards a complex and complicated MMO' routine is something the vanbois defensively used during beta when people were concerned about bugs and performance problems.
Its no longer relevant,yet still people will blurt out that it requires a degree in nuclear physics to get anywhere in vanguard.
I don't think things are more complicated in Vanguard then in other games for example. I think there is more things to do to get to the point where you want to be. Mostly in crafting, but that would be blatantly obvious as someone put it. Crafting in some games are just more of a casting time. But that doesn't make it complicated(not in the sence I read complicated) that put it as one have to interact with more to craft wich imo makes Vanguard fun in that aspect.
Then with diplomacy where one could easily put as one have to interact more to get alot of the lore from the game. Besides the buff and puff one can do with diplomacy.
I like the chains you get when you crit, I like that a ranger can create arrows, I like it when you can do different series of attacks to get a chance of a debuff bonus on the target. And so on.
But the gameplay is simply put in all of these game, select target, attack target, win or loose.
But I do think there are more to the eyes in Vanguard then one thinks. Alor of things depends on what one thinks is complicated is more interaction complicated or do one think that if one puts it out simple that it is just the same just different shades of greys, don't know. I think I've lost myself here, because games are complicated in a sence of the meaning and then they are not.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Ok so you are actually suggesting that they are something else then different shades of grey in this matter? I think we have seen all of it now. It is not like you are gonna dress yourself with a virtual reality suit taken from Lawnmover Man.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people think EVE, Vanguard, EQ, UO, AO, and the rest are challenging. A lot of people also think high school was challenging.
High school or MMOs are not challening. Every single one is a tedious timesink, aka, grind. There is no game in any genre or platform that a ten year couldn't master. Just because Dropout Joe finds <insert game> difficult doesn't mean those of us who are actually intelligent will have any hard time finding the buttons on our keyboard.
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/154715
Good luck. You wont regret giving it a try.
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/154715
Good luck. You wont regret giving it a try.
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Who flippin' cares. Vanguard is not WoW and WoW is not Vanguard. If Vanguard were anything remotely like WoW I would have never even picked this game up and all I can say is thank god this game is not WoW! As for complicated...not even SWG was complicated. Sure all these games have a bit of a learning curve(all of them) but you don't have to be a rocket scientest to learn how to play "any" of these games.
So your arguements (both of you that are debating this) is a moot point.
I'm sure there is some semi-safe combo to use as far as mana-efficiency under basic circumstances. This class seems to be very complex though. Personally, I didn't have the patience or time in groups to master this class.
Anyway, if you play it again sometime; try it out(in groups).
I play Vanguard and have done since beta.
Its a great game if you like nothing to be easy, its the whole point to Vanguard and a contrast to WoW, LOTR etc etc
Because the game is so huge, some areas do need some work but these are getting few and far between as the game updates.
Trade skills are very complicated and are a grind fest but an interesting one, its not a simple skill check for sure, probably one of the most complicated trade skill systems in any game.
VG needs a high performance PC to play on max (unlike other games) and suffers from lag but is getting better each patch.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
SOE will be eliminating numbers 1,2, and 3, soon according to the latest producer's letter by dummying down the game. Vanguard will become less complicated, challenging, however you want to phrase it.
SOE will be eliminating numbers 1,2, and 3, soon according to the latest producer's letter by dummying down the game. Vanguard will become less complicated, challenging, however you want to phrase it.
Not true. From the SOE announcements, the first raid instance will have 25 bosses and will be one of the most challening instances ever. At least that's what they say but if you have better information let us know.
I don't know how they gonna change your second point. They are not gonna decrease the size of the world, or do any other changes to it apart from the faster travel options, so what are you talking about.
And the day they gonna add fishing into game, Ill quit instantly.
REALITY CHECK
Wrong.I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/154715
Good luck. You wont regret giving it a try.
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Who flippin' cares. Vanguard is not WoW and WoW is not Vanguard. If Vanguard were anything remotely like WoW I would have never even picked this game up and all I can say is thank god this game is not WoW! As for complicated...not even SWG was complicated. Sure all these games have a bit of a learning curve(all of them) but you don't have to be a rocket scientest to learn how to play "any" of these games.
So your arguements (both of you that are debating this) is a moot point.
You may not have to be a rocket scientist to play EVE.... but it would certainly help.....
Anyone who thinks EVE isn't complicated and tough to master really hasn't taken the time to fully understand it... (and no, I'm not referring to the combat mechanics)
I've been playing for 5 months now..and I'm still learning new stuff every day..... and some things I'll never learn.....
Edit: Forgot to stay on topic.... VG isn't WOW...but I wouldn't call it complicated either....just different and more detailed in some areas like character classes and crafting...... but the quests and what not are standard fare........
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
SOE will be eliminating numbers 1,2, and 3, soon according to the latest producer's letter by dummying down the game. Vanguard will become less complicated, challenging, however you want to phrase it.
Not true. From the SOE announcements, the first raid instance will have 25 bosses and will be one of the most challening instances ever. At least that's what they say but if you have better information let us know.
I don't know how they gonna change your second point. They are not gonna decrease the size of the world, or do any other changes to it apart from the faster travel options, so what are you talking about.
And the day they gonna add fishing into game, Ill quit instantly.
Raiding is not challenging or complicated. It's easier to achieve something when you are being helped by many others as opposed to accomplishing a goal by yourself or within a small group. I've known so many raiders who rode the coattails of others while boasting of their own supposed skills. By focusing content on raiding, SOE is repeating the same mistakes they made in classic EQ, and will alienate all the soloers and small group oriented players. Raiding is a dinosaur concept that needs to die. Instancing is also a lazy developer's tool which divides the playerbase by reducing interaction and destroys immersion.When you ignore realistic travel times and create faster unrealistic travel options for convenience, you minimize the world. That is excatly what happened in classic EQ. Parts of the world that used to flourish became wastelands of emptiness when they added instaports for everyone. Socializing suffered because people just ported to where their existing friends were, eliminating any chance of interacting with other players. The game world becomes smaller, immersion suffers, and community vanishes.
SOE will be eliminating numbers 1,2, and 3, soon according to the latest producer's letter by dummying down the game. Vanguard will become less complicated, challenging, however you want to phrase it.
Not true. From the SOE announcements, the first raid instance will have 25 bosses and will be one of the most challening instances ever. At least that's what they say but if you have better information let us know.
I don't know how they gonna change your second point. They are not gonna decrease the size of the world, or do any other changes to it apart from the faster travel options, so what are you talking about.
And the day they gonna add fishing into game, Ill quit instantly.
Raiding is not challenging or complicated. It's easier to achieve something when you are being helped by many others as opposed to accomplishing a goal by yourself or within a small group. I've known so many raiders who rode the coattails of others while boasting of their own supposed skills. By focusing content on raiding, SOE is repeating the same mistakes they made in classic EQ, and will alienate all the soloers and small group oriented players. Raiding is a dinosaur concept that needs to die. Instancing is also a lazy developer's tool which divides the playerbase by reducing interaction and destroys immersion.When you ignore realistic travel times and create faster unrealistic travel options for convenience, you minimize the world. That is excatly what happened in classic EQ. Parts of the world that used to flourish became wastelands of emptiness when they added instaports for everyone. Socializing suffered because people just ported to where their existing friends were, eliminating any chance of interacting with other players. The game world becomes smaller, immersion suffers, and community vanishes.
This is simply not true.I can't imagine a situation where you can simulate the coordination needed in raids in solo gaming. Solo gaming is either: Doable or impossible. You either can do it - have the proper abilities to kill something or not. Solo playing will never have as much depth and will never be as demanding as raiding.
In addition I can't imagine how you can call raiding in VG easy. I suppose one mistake on later bosses (one small mistake of anyone in raid) will mean a wipe. Everyone will have a hard time.
REALITY CHECK
I am currently an All Access member, and can play all of Sony's games. Vanguard is good, I like EQ2 better for now. I do play Vanguard . The graphics are great, there is NO game better than Vanguard in the graphics area.. The leveling is hard than most MMOs. The character generation has alot to be desired, but they are woking on that. The current patches has made the game better, but not GREAT. But in my opinion the game has no SOUL. And what I mean by that, it that I don't have that feeling of adventure. But that is just MY opinion, your's may vary. I have played all MMO's worth its weight. And if you are looking for a complex MMO, EVE is it. If you want a challenging one,Vanguard will do until the next latest and greatest. I hate WOW , it was not for me. Not saying it isn't good, just not my flavor.
But to all of the people saying that this or that game JUST SUCKS. Most are trolls and don't know what they hell they are talking about. I know people who liked Horizons. It all depends on your taste, computer and gaming knowledge. And I have been playing longer than most people have been living in the MMO world.
If I were in your shoes. I wouldn't play Vanguard until they have some kind of free trial. Enough said.
I played all the major MMORPG’s since the MUD days and as far as depth of strategy and character abilities/spells Vanguard is much more complex than the others.
This is why I play vanguard. I like to develop and perfect a variety of combat strategies and games like EQ2 and WoW just don’t compete depth wise.
I would agree that the combat system in VG is probably the best out there. After playing vg to lvl 47 I left and played some wow and now eq2. What I'm feeling is that vg has the best combat system overall. Wow is better then eq2. I think that eq2, wow, vg are probably the best all around combat systems in any mmorpg.
What I think about when I say best is giving me choices and making me think. I like having to decide what finisher or what bufs or what reactions I need to do and oh yeah work with my group to take advantage of weakness systems etc.
eq2 has the wheel but I'm not really very impressed with it. Combat in eq2 is less interesting overall. You pretty much go through the same sequence of keys and I would say it is the weakest point of the game. There is a little variety but many times I feel like I'm playing a piano tapping all my hotkeys...
Wow combat system is very good with buildups from openers and finishing moves or the variety of combat systems between classes. Each class is somewhat unique and you tend to have to think about what you are doing. I really thing wow's combat system is top notch.
VG has some similarities to wow but adds things like reactions and a few other unique triggered abilities. I like this. Where in wow you can pretty much decide before you fight what you will do in VG you tend to have to adjust during the fight as various options become available and then decide if you want to use them or not.
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Ethion
Vanguard has some depth. Although character customisation is lacking, combat mechanics are quite interesting. Crafting system is also more complex then in most other MMO's. Im not familiar with EVE, but I think that crafting in Vanguard is as complex as in SWG. Diplomacy is very refreshing to (at start anyway).
Downside of Vanguard was for me that it all turned into a grind. I dont know if this is changed, but the way you only did workorders to progress with crafting was so incredibly tedious. The few crafting quests didnt really change that. Same with diplomacy, the amount of civic parleys made my eyes bleed. Turned this minigame into a job. When do those devs learn that we dont mind slow progress as long as we have some differentiation. More crafting quests and more diplomacy quests (this is from my experienced 3 months from release).
I just agree with the others that they shouldnt have released it in that buggy state. I dont have any patience for that anymore. 'This game has potential', 'it needs some time' blah blah blah. Not with my money. Maybe after a new launch from SOE, I might consider it again.
Why are you also suggesting that because of the solo players raidcontent should not be allowed.
There is no instance in Vanguard, and there have not been mentioning to create it either.
Because they make raiding possible for those that wants it, and apperantly there is alot of people that do, is not the same as they won't focus on other things for the game. The real focus on the game is the performance issues and all what that includes.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
That's bull. When AC was released it had one of the most complicated magic systems with the combination of different ingredients, which was unique for each character, to get a more powerful spell. Also the number of spells and the variation of such made it so that it would be quite dificult for an average 10 year old to master. This has since then been simplified but once it was quite complicated.
Another is Eve. It has one of the most complicated skill systems coupled with complete freedom to build your ship as you like. No lame class restrictions which exist solely to make it easier for people to create a good character and for devs to balance the different classes. Also to be succesful in Eve you will need social skills that I doubt most 10 year olds have. Also dont get me started on the crafting in that game...
So dont come with that nonsense that all MMORPGs are created equal because they are not. WoW, EQ 2 etc is designed to be easy and non complicated. Eve certainly is not.
My gaming blog
Please finish your statement. It is more complicated because.....?
I mean from what I heard the character advancement is on track and with little to no customisation so no need to think there and the PvP system is so unbalanced and half finished that it is not worth doing. So what excactly is complicated?
My gaming blog
With the nitpicking, while you can say something is complex just because it is. You don't really need to motivate it.
But a fast google found this, and apperantly there is a difference beetween complex and complicity.
So as I understand he said complex not complicated. But you asked why he thougth it was complicated...
This fast google search was not that complicated to do... But it ended up with a complex result.
http://smartpei.typepad.com/robert_patersons_weblog/2006/11/more_on_complex.html
While... this just show that it is a difference beetween complex and complicated. But anyway it was nitpicking I was talking about.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Wrong.I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/154715
Good luck. You wont regret giving it a try.
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Well lets see . mount quest in WOW run the same 8 daily quests everyday doing the exact same quest till your exalted , get mount how lame is that .
Vanguard mount quests start quest at lev 21 or so , do a quest line thats about 25 quest long that take you all over the world and has you killing multitude of different mobs. Totaly awesome fun quest line that will require you to group up and interact with other players thats if you want to get it done fast or you can solo most of it but that takes a little time
i could point out a 100 other things if you really need help figuring it out
I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/154715
Good luck. You wont regret giving it a try.
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Well lets see . mount quest in WOW run the same 8 daily quests everyday doing the exact same quest till your exalted , get mount how lame is that .
Vanguard mount quests start quest at lev 21 or so , do a quest line thats about 25 quest long that take you all over the world and has you killing multitude of different mobs. Totaly awesome fun quest line that will require you to group up and interact with other players thats if you want to get it done fast or you can solo most of it but that takes a little time
i could point out a 100 other things if you really need help figuring it out
Well the ADD player masses that SOE wants to attract to Vanguard will find such a lengthy quest chain too complicated and frustrating, afterall, they want their mounts now and can't be bothered with earning anything, so expect the developers to make getting these mounts way easier.
Wrong.I can't be botherd to argue with silly people today so for good info read this:
http://mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/154715
Good luck. You wont regret giving it a try.
I am nto wrong and you know it. But to use your words, I cant be bothered to argue with people that cant stand the truth, or even reality. You cant point out ONE thing in Vanguard more complicated than WoW (and no, Size is not complicated, or porn stars would be rocket scientists). You are just tossing lies around to defend your own delusions
Well lets see . mount quest in WOW run the same 8 daily quests everyday doing the exact same quest till your exalted , get mount how lame is that .
Vanguard mount quests start quest at lev 21 or so , do a quest line thats about 25 quest long that take you all over the world and has you killing multitude of different mobs. Totaly awesome fun quest line that will require you to group up and interact with other players thats if you want to get it done fast or you can solo most of it but that takes a little time
i could point out a 100 other things if you really need help figuring it out
Well the ADD player masses that SOE wants to attract to Vanguard will find such a lengthy quest chain too complicated and frustrating, afterall, they want their mounts now and can't be bothered with earning anything, so expect the developers to make getting these mounts way easier.
Yeah, I can also say some random cool stuff.
I could go to the spellborn forum and state this. "The chronicles of spellborn is never gonna be released."
Like that you go to VG forum and state a random statement based on ignorance and reading what is popular to say.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"