Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Power Gamers and the "rest" system
p00ka
Member Posts: 167
There has been a lot of talk about the new "rest" system in WoW - just about everyone that reports on the status of WoW has an article about it. I found this page particularly interesting - as it speaks from my perspective. It might help some people understand *why* power gamers feel so nerfed by such a system....
http://warcraftcheese.com/wowtv/gaysystem.html
-pooka
EDIT: I highly reccomend that anyone who feels strongly about this system (one way or another) go read the official WoW forums - there are tons of posts about this. This is a new idea, and if implemented poorly could have a tremendous impact on World of Warcraft - and probably other soon-to-be-released titles as well.
Comments
As a powergamer I feel this system help me over other powergamers and over average players.
When I play, I have all day available, so if the rest is a static 8 hours, it mean that while a casual player will play once, I will play 2 or maybe even 3 times.
Yet, I have TONS of time available for it, and yes, I will play 2 hours before sleepy time, then will awake 8 hours later, no matter if the sun is out or not, dont matter, I have more flexibility then the average powergamer. Even the day that I work I will play my first 2 hours, even if I need to wake at 3:45 AM and cut on the sleep night for this day! *grin* And guess what I will do before sleepy sleep?
But yes, the average powergamer is *nerfed* by such a system.
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I like the basic concept of the rest system. I'll have to see how it's implimented before I make a final decision.
Anything that forces a player to leave a spawn camping site for 15 minutes once every three or four R/L days to make the proverbial "trip to town to throw away their now-maggot-infested 3 game year old jerky rations and buy fresh supplies" is a good thing.
"...you just #@*&;$% with the wrong rhino, pal!" - Smoochy
"...you just #@*&;$% with the wrong rhino, pal!" - Smoochy
---------------------------------
Zimok - PS - Emerald
Zimok - SWG - Bloodfin
This one is a no-brainer .
Rest = "Do you wish to log off? YES NO"
Most games already have down time for regen. As to camping, some games have built in penalties for farming the same mobs over a period of time.
*giggles*
No reason thought, I just lack RL interest I guess, so I bump into small little games, much much better then watching TV like so many folks just do all around the world!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Now, I may be wrong, but my understanding of how the rest system worked was, your xp from camping random mobs would go down over time, however you would still recieve full xp from quests, and so on.
Ultimately, this won't slow down the powergamers any. And it won't help the casuals 'keep up with the Joneses'. The reason the most successfull guilds are successful is because of leadership, teamwork, coordination and knowing the game, and how to PLAY THEIR DAMNED CLASS. Call me an elitist snob, but I don't have the patience to put up with some dipshit that can't tie his shoes playing the healer, who seems to be of the mistaken notion that he should be fighting rather than healing. Or the tank who doesn't know what aggro is, let alone how to hold it.
Want proof of this? Take any MMO on the market. Now get in a group with the best guild in the game. Then get in a random pickup group with a bunch of chuckleheads who couldn't find their ass with both hands and a map. Given 6 hours with each group, which one do you think will have the most xp at the end of the 6 hours.
So the rest system is only going to seperate the haves and have nots even more.
-------
They panic, so just hold them down
I could live like this
I'm closing in; hate all around
I could be like this
Hearing them, them in my head
How could they be so sweet... sweet?
Random thoughts:
First, let me say that anything that is added to an MMORPG that benefits ONLY one group will inherantly hurt another. The fairness of the rest system is being examined under a microscope because it attempts to reward one group disproportionately to another. Most people agree that if they play X hours a night, another player who plays X / 2 should not receive the same reward.
Many arguments can be made for or against a system like this. My personal take is this: If we are all paying the same fee to play the game, but one group invests more time into the game, they should see the fruits of their efforts. Play time - if it were the only thing separating the two groups - should indeed be rewarded. So, despite the two perspectives - being that it's either a bonus (glass is half full), or a penalty (glass is half empty) - it's undoubtedly a bad thing to have any significant portion of the game's population feeling like they are being penalized. As-is, the measure by which everything is measured becomes the "rested" xp - which is 200% that of "normal."
> Most games already have down time for regen.
They do have "down time", but so does WoW. As a warrior, could I kill mobs non-stop for 6 hours straight without a healer, then "rest" for 18? No, I can't. So, this is in addition to regular down time.
> Now, I may be wrong, but my understanding of how the rest system worked was, your xp from camping random mobs would go down over time, however you would still recieve full xp from quests, and so on.
In this case, the baseline becomes "normal" again - which is the only thing keeping this from being an outright penalty for "un-reseted" characters.
>The reason the most successfull guilds are successful is because of leadership, teamwork, coordination and knowing the game, and how to PLAY THEIR DAMNED CLASS. Call me an elitist snob, but I don't have the patience to put up with some dipshit that can't tie his shoes playing the healer, who seems to be of the mistaken notion that he should be fighting rather than healing.
This is the point I was trying to make in the power gamers post. Some people simply want to play with experienced players. The ONLY way to do this is to play with high level people. The rest system kind of shifts this balance, making "casual" players level artificially fast. I feel that this is a dangerous side effect - and it could very well affect the long-term health of the game.
> Want proof of this? Take any MMO on the market. Now get in a group with the best guild in the game. Then get in a random pickup group with a bunch of chuckleheads who couldn't find their ass with both hands and a map. Given 6 hours with each group, which one do you think will have the most xp at the end of the 6 hours.
The general formula is: Time invested = levels gained. Levels gained = experience in playing your class. So if you throw this off-balance, and reduce the time invested, one character of a given level could have half of the time invested in knowing how their class works than another.
-pooka
Pooka,
In EQ nowadays, players can shoot up, on their own, to 65 in no time at all. They end up knowing jack shit about their class, and are terrible players all around. Just because the player spends time on the character doesn't mean that they learn how to play the class.
I like the rest system the way it's been described. First of all, if you're questing like intended it's not supposed to have that large of an effect. Not only that, but the baseline in the rest system isn't 100% experience, it's 200% experience. That means that when completely tired, you're still getting full XP from kills, you're just not getting the bonus XP. OH NO!!! THAT'S SO TERRIBLE!!! NO MORE FREE XP SINCE I SPEND ALL OF MY TIME PLAYING A GAME!!! I JUST CAN'T GO BACK INTO THE REALWORLD!!!
Suck it up. Once Blizzard has the system working the way they WANT it to work, it's going to be a great idea. They want to implement accumulated rest, on the move rest (i.e. not logging out, but time is accumulated when you're not killing stuff...aka take up crafting), and scaled XP rest. What's so bad about that?
AHH! Run away from the monster! He's going to eat us!
Socializer 80% Explorer 73% Achiever 33% Killer 13%
Killer 100% Socializer 40% Explorer 33% Achiever 27%
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROLFMAO
That was such a funny read.
<Begin crybaby tantrum voice>
I am a power gamer. I want to be twice the level as everybody else. Waaaa Waaaa.
<End crybaby voice>
I can't believe somebody would spend the time to write that crybaby paper.
My answer, prove you are the power gaming master, better than everybody else. Get to that high level in that system before everybody else. Prove you are so much better. Overcome the obstacle, don't cry about it.
Had to get this off of my chest. A crybaby trying to make his side sound like we should all respect it...
HAHAHAHA
I am still laughing...
I am sorry. I am finding it hard to stop.
well i didnt read the link, but i already read a few times about the rest system in WOW.
the reason it sucks is because it really doesnt do much, the casual gamers ( aka noobs ) will play for there 1 hour and soon as there rest system goes down a bit they will have to log out causing everyone to find another partner in the group. really the rest system wont let any casual gamers catch the power gamers because plain and simple the powergames will be able to put in 8 hours a day. so they will get slower exp during that 8 hours but they will still get a ton of exp. its kind of annoying, knowing the more time you put into the game the less the rewards, but honeslty the way WOW is looking it sounds like it will be a game that everyone maxes level fast anyways. same equiptment same stats. and everytime you want to logout of the game quick, now you have to go walk for 5-10 mins to find the nearest inn so you can rest and get back to 200% exp. now if you login to check something and didnt wait the full time, you dont gain back your rest? sounds like a bunch of crap to me.. personally id rather they scrap the whole idea... but even if they dont i dont see any changes between a casual gamer catching the powergamers..
its like the rabbit vs the turtle. the outcome will nearly always be the same
" What's so bad about that? " well i dont want my time decided for me, i dont want them to decide that in the 4 hours that im playing the game i " should rest " for 2 hours out of my playtime so i can get this 200% exp advantage... to me its just annoying nothing more. it wont solve anything but put a thought in the back of my head that im getting SCAMMED hehe
casual gamer plays for 2 hours at 200% exp and kills 100 mobs
power gamer plays for 6 hours at 200% exp for his 100 kills then kills another 200 mobs at 100% exp what did this solve?? nothing the powergames is still ahead.
TaskyZZ,
Um...thanks for taking this seriously. The simple fact is this throws the balance off. This was a rhetorical post - I have made arguments both for and against this system. Yet, you prove your immaturity by posting such a moronic response. As a matter of fact, my original post expressed no opinion whatsoever, except that I feel that the author of the link i posted and I share the same perspective. It doesn't mean we share opinions. All I asked is that people explore this issue on the WoW forums - since it will undoubtedly affect all players one way or another.
Go find someone else to flame - all you have proven here is is your inability to see this issue from both sides by posting such a moronic rant.
-pooka
" Most games already have down time for regen.
They do have "down time", but so does WoW. As a warrior, could I kill mobs non-stop for 6 hours straight without a healer, then "rest" for 18? No, I can't. So, this is in addition to regular down time."
**********************
That is my point. I often have to solo because the hours at which I play are when there is a low sever population.
In other words it would just be a waste of time for me. In fact if this system does go into effect I will not even try the game. There are too many other games coming out that won't go and tie an anchor to your backside.
And for those that like it, go for it.
Ok this is getting stupid seriously. I just readed the article and seriously... this guy is a complete nerdz.
Look this is a game, you do whatever you want in it, but you gotta accept the rules. You don't like the rest system in WoW? Then this is no game for you. Shooo, go away man with no life and no respect for the majority of gamer. I say majority because we all know casual gamer are like 80% of the mmorpg player.
I don't really care powergamer beating me in the leveling process, but i am concerned about people being so addicted that they forget their own life...
Ul tell me how does it concern me? Well it's simple, i exerienced it... i wasted 2 year of my life playing a game, where i could have gotten myself a nice girlfriend, a car and would have been proud of my life. What did i get? Huge fun during 2 year... yes it was fun, but now that it's finished... i see that i wasted that time. I could have played the game 4 hour straight, and that would have been ok, but no, i played it 8 hour and sometime 12 hour!
Finally a company care for us player, they are puting humanity before money, but powergamer don't seem to understand this. Look, remember that u can still play a lot more than us and beat us, but the concept is there, it's that it won't be as much payfull, so in the end ul be less likely to do it.
I clap my hand at Blizzard, they are over SoE for saying : hell no to addicting our player in a way it will destruct their life.
If you like wasting your life and powergame like crazy, go for EQII, we all know what they did with EQI... it was the perfect example of the company who want money first
Now stop whining, play the game, and deal with their rules, you are in World of Warcraft and this world, is not your creation but their... dream on guys reality is closer than u expected.
________________________________________________
By powergaming in an rpg games you are forgotting the true
essence of the rpg : Role. Playing. Game.
-Myth-
___________________________________________________
Illusion masquerading as metaphor in the guise of legend
-Myth-
___________________________________________________
Illusion masquerading as metaphor in the guise of legend
Not 100% sure how the rest system works.
But as I see it to be the best of the best you need to put even more effort into the game. A way to set even the powergamers apart.
With this sytem we will have:
1. Casual player, most of them pretty happy with the system I reckon.
2. Power gamer, still ahead of the casual gamer but not exponentially more ahead VS the time and effort spent. But ahead none the less..
3. Elite power gamer, the people who order their life after the game, sleeping only when they need to rest ingame, setting the alarm clock only to be able to get the juice out of every possible uptime hour in the game. More or less live and breath the game to its fullest extent..
According the link above this is a way to set even the powergamers apart, to be the best of the best you REALLY need to live the game. And aint that a good thing? (according to that text this is what is strived for anhow)
I say this benefits the true powergamer and the wannabees is the ones crying. Having lots of time no longer will cut it, you need to plan that time to.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
Defend it and take it as serious as you like. But the fact is, that paper was a crybaby whine.
The whole frickin' thing. He is compaining that they are making it harder for him to dominate the game and get way ahead of other players...
SO FRICKIN' WHAT!!! If he can't handle the obstacle, then he can just climb down off of it and make way for the poeple who can.
GET OFF MY OBSTACLE, DIRT BAG!!!
I find it hard to believe that he even admitted that crap...
Oh, and what balance are we talking about? This guy has some idea that there is some equlibrium in balance when he levels through the game ridiculously fast and then starts complaining that there isn't enough content for him?
Then it will just degrade into an EQ situation. They'll start converting some of the lower level dungeons into high level dungeons. That Gnoll cave in South Karana, anyone?!?!
All the expansion packs will be geared towards high end content, etc... This just ruins games. The die hard EQ fanms don't think so, but it is true.
If there was enough low end content that you couldn't see it all the first time through, then the game would be more fun when you start a new character. I would to see enough low end content that you can start 10 new characters and see new conent all the way to level 60 each time. That would be ideal...
So, you can imagine this ridiculous balance all you want. There is no such thing.