First, I doubt these numbers are true. Second, if there are, so what. That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent. In China, they literally give the game away, free. Same thing with the last expansion (which is why those POS gold farmers never seem to go away, figues eh?). The "hourly" price to play is so pathetically cheap (like $.01-.03/hr, that it does not even matter. And, when you get a new acct there (for free), you get the first months play for free. And nothing is stopping people from doing that over and over. I know, I was just there. The college kids never pay a dime to play. This is how they keep sub numbers up and make these extravegant claims of 9.3 mil subs, which I doubt is true, anyway.
Yep just talked to a friend that returned from Beijing, she said even those that actually pay for the game, pay an insanely cheap price and that most high school and college kids have five or six accounts and China is where 90% of the subscriber base is from , but even so that doesn’t mean anything the game is popular, but then again millions of people buy Ronco products every year….that dosen’t make the Vegimatic not suck.
They don't break the numbers down into US, EU and Asia. My belief is because that would reveal that US/EU numbers are falling, and Asia are accounting for a bulk of any gains....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
First, I doubt these numbers are true. Second, if there are, so what. That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent. In China, they literally give the game away, free. Same thing with the last expansion (which is why those POS gold farmers never seem to go away, figues eh?). The "hourly" price to play is so pathetically cheap (like $.01-.03/hr, that it does not even matter. And, when you get a new acct there (for free), you get the first months play for free. And nothing is stopping people from doing that over and over. I know, I was just there. The college kids never pay a dime to play. This is how they keep sub numbers up and make these extravegant claims of 9.3 mil subs, which I doubt is true, anyway.
Yep just talked to a friend that returned from Beijing, she said even those that actually pay for the game, pay an insanely cheap price and that most high school and college kids have five or six accounts and China is where 90% of the subscriber base is from , but even so that doesn’t mean anything the game is popular, but then again millions of people buy Ronco products every year….that dosen’t make the Vegimatic not suck.
Dude. Please read teh posts. Obviously you didn't read more than a couple posts and then posted here an argument that has already been refuted. Comparing wow to products that aren't mmorpgs that sell alot is a big fallacy and only makes you look ignorant. For instance, comparing wow to brittney spears says nothing about the price and demand, only the quantity of units sold. It also says nothing of quality. For example, McDonalds sells hundreds and millions of burgers but they sell to the same demographic, they do not claim to be a high quality product producing business either. Wow on the other hand is continuely rated the greatest mmorpg at all sites. It is also a high quality product, meaning that years and years went into its development. A cheeseburger is made in a matter of hours. It took wow more than 5 years to be made or so. Also, it is a luxury product by definition according to its demand curve. No a luxury product is not perfume or shampoo. Luxury products are mostly electronics like big screen t.v. cable telivions etc....bmws. The only thing that determines if a product is a luxury product is its demand curve. That is the only component of hte definition. Difining the word luxury and then product and then adding those definitions together does not mean taht something si a luxury product in economics. I repeate, for the ignorant, and yes someone did define lxury and then product last time i posted this and told me thats what a luxury product was.
Anyways...to make a long story short...comparing wow to french fries or brittney spears is not only highly ignorant but it also demonstrates that the very same things the critiques accuse wow players of they suffer from, stupidity, if they make that argument. Now if you don't like wow because it is too easy, that is a different story that can be argued ina different post. But please, for the love of GOD stop comparing wow to a cheeseburger. What is to stop me from doing this with EQ according to your own logic? Absolutely nothing. Secondd....I'm not trying to flame, just trying to educate. For the record I currently am Playing Vanguard, hellgate london, wow, and EQ....and of all those wow is still the best in present, past, and future tense because of polish, balance, gameplay, etc.
They don't break the numbers down into US, EU and Asia. My belief is because that would reveal that US/EU numbers are falling, and Asia are accounting for a bulk of any gains....
Not according to Blizzard. They've said that their numbers continue to grow in each of EU, NA, and Asia. So, unless you can prove otherwise, we have to go with Vivendi's financials that show them making over $1.3 Billion a year.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I really dont understand what you are arguing about. I believe most ppl on this forum are gamers and not shareholders or investors who are thinking of buying or selling vivendi/blizzard stocks, casue only in that case someone would be interested in the financial figures and worldwide subscribers numbers Vivendi has announced. This numbers are obviously the result of increasing the overall marketvolume of the game by entering new markets (Asia) and NOT their market share in a specific market.
How much could someone in the US/EU care about increasing subscribers numbers in a freshly opened market where the product lifecycle starts from the beginning, while he numbers in HIS market in falling casue people played the game already for 3 years, got bored and move on to other games. The thing that cares people who play or played wow is if their servers are enough populated to get groups together or if their friends are still playing etc.
A similar situation was the "beatle" from volkswagen. After it was long out-dated in its original markets they shipped whole manufacturing plants to southamerica where the product boomed again, was produced and sold long after the it was just old crap in Europe.
So maybe they release the game next year in India and several African coutries to catch up with the decline in EU/US. Does that mean the lifecycle of the game isnt coming to an end in the EU/US ???
www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php Publisher Vivendi has announced that its games division's sales have rised nearly 19 percent to 216 million euros ($315.2 million) in its third quarter, on the "continued momentum" of World of Warcraft and initial sales of Massive's World in Conflict.
The company also noted that its subscriber base has continued to grow from the 9 million mark it celebrated in July to more than 9.3 million, which it says is up more than one million subscribers since December 31 of last year.
In 2000 Britney Spears sold 10.4 million copies of Oops!... I Did It Again. Guess what? I don't care.
Most smart people wouldn't either. Numbers do not equal quality and whether you admit it or not this post is meant to mislead people into thinking WoW must be great because it has 9mil+. I'm sure we'll even get the normal (extremely retarded) posts like "9 mil can't be wrong". Unless you were directing this post towards people who own Vivendi/Blizzard stock, the numbers shouldn't matter. But I am pretty sure that was never your intention. Your intention was to simply brag and boast about WoW with out directly saying it.
Oops!... I Did It Again was mainstream trash and so is WoW.
First, I doubt these numbers are true. Second, if there are, so what. That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent. In China, they literally give the game away, free. Same thing with the last expansion (which is why those POS gold farmers never seem to go away, figues eh?). The "hourly" price to play is so pathetically cheap (like $.01-.03/hr, that it does not even matter. And, when you get a new acct there (for free), you get the first months play for free. And nothing is stopping people from doing that over and over. I know, I was just there. The college kids never pay a dime to play. This is how they keep sub numbers up and make these extravegant claims of 9.3 mil subs, which I doubt is true, anyway.
Yep just talked to a friend that returned from Beijing, she said even those that actually pay for the game, pay an insanely cheap price and that most high school and college kids have five or six accounts and China is where 90% of the subscriber base is from , but even so that doesn’t mean anything the game is popular, but then again millions of people buy Ronco products every year….that dosen’t make the Vegimatic not suck.
Dude. Please read teh posts. Obviously you didn't read more than a couple posts and then posted here an argument that has already been refuted. Comparing wow to products that aren't mmorpgs that sell alot is a big fallacy and only makes you look ignorant.
Okay don't even have to rebutt this one, I'll let the post and the handle "WoW4lifer " speak for itself.
Don't matter how many subs WOW has. They are split up over tons of servers. EVE has 1 server everyone is on together. There is usually around 30,000 people online at most times. How many people on each WOW server? Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it's closer to 5,000
Also numbers don't change the fact that Wow is just to kiddie cartoony for me. The safe pvp system also does not appeal to me. All the annoying waves of children also does not appeal to me (no offense to you smarter kids out there).
Numbers don't mean it's good. More people bought Michael Jackson albums then Slayer, but I still like Slayer. What I have learned in life is Most people suck.
Gratz Wow on a good buisness model for so many MMO's to copy and release more corperate garbage to make a profit instead of new innovative games. I do hope Bioware does not follow the herd. EVE sure hasn't
Don't matter how many subs WOW has. They are split up over tons of servers. EVE has 1 server everyone is on together. There is usually around 30,000 people online at most times. How many people on each WOW server? Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it's closer to 5,000 Also numbers don't change the fact that Wow is just to kiddie cartoony for me. The safe pvp system also does not appeal to me. All the annoying waves of children also does not appeal to me (no offense to you smarter kids out there). Numbers don't mean it's good. More people bought Michael Jackson albums then Slayer, but I still like Slayer. What I have learned in life is Most people suck. Gratz Wow on a good buisness model for so many MMO's to copy and release more corperate garbage to make a profit instead of new innovative games. I do hope Bioware does not follow the herd. EVE sure hasn't
Really? You like Slayer? I'm more of a Hammerfall person myself.....
That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent.
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:
In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
That's not becuase wow is cheaper there, it is because the dollar is worthless than there own currency. That is economics and applies to everything there from cheese to bmws.
First, I doubt these numbers are true. Second, if there are, so what. That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent. In China, they literally give the game away, free. Same thing with the last expansion (which is why those POS gold farmers never seem to go away, figues eh?). The "hourly" price to play is so pathetically cheap (like $.01-.03/hr, that it does not even matter. And, when you get a new acct there (for free), you get the first months play for free. And nothing is stopping people from doing that over and over. I know, I was just there. The college kids never pay a dime to play. This is how they keep sub numbers up and make these extravegant claims of 9.3 mil subs, which I doubt is true, anyway.
Yep just talked to a friend that returned from Beijing, she said even those that actually pay for the game, pay an insanely cheap price and that most high school and college kids have five or six accounts and China is where 90% of the subscriber base is from , but even so that doesn’t mean anything the game is popular, but then again millions of people buy Ronco products every year….that dosen’t make the Vegimatic not suck.
Dude. Please read teh posts. Obviously you didn't read more than a couple posts and then posted here an argument that has already been refuted. Comparing wow to products that aren't mmorpgs that sell alot is a big fallacy and only makes you look ignorant.
Okay don't even have to rebutt this one, I'll let the post and the handle "WoW4lifer " speak for itself.
Can someone post to me research demonstrating a correlation between spelling and your arument being wrong or right?
How many accounts exist for RuneScape and the other free to play MMO? Since WoW is almost free in Asia and that about 90% of their player base is in Asia, it should be compared to free to play MMO located in Asia.
WoW is a shadow of what it used to be in term of subscribtions in town. Still more peoples playing WoW then any other MMO, but not even 1/3 of the peoples who used to at peak moment.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent.
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:
In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
YEAH! Screw them. Blizzard is a bunch of liars! I'll take this Burntvet guy's word for it. He sounds like a sensible person with no bias against the game. I'm sure his name is in reference to some other game. Or maybe he's trying to say he's ex-military... Anyway, Blizzard lies I tell you!!
.... and don't want to forget to mention SOE and EA hate gamers.
FIGHT THE POWER!!
EDIT: I'm sure all those $0's you're throwing around have some significance to the $1.3 Billion revenue they reported. I just don't see it.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent.
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:
In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
It actualy costs $5 (USA) to buy a CD-KEY.. its not free. and you get no free time.
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
They had to wait 8 months for the9 to release the expansion, pay $35 or wait 8 months? hum.
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
Chinese players cannot play in western servers, unless they fake their IP etc. The9, the company that runs WoW in china does not list wester servers, players have to use work arounds and hacks to get onto western servers.
Also the average income for some 1 in china is $2,000 a year compared to $44,000 in US and $38,000 in western europe, we then have to factor in different living costs, taxes etc and also a different culture when it comes to games and gaming.
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
They dont play for free, they use up their 'points every hour' and they have to buy points in batches oof 30 costing $4, they also have to pay the cyber cafe every hour.
For some 1 who was *apparently* there 5 weeks ago, you know nothing about how WoW is run in China... you just make ya self look silly. Your also lacking in any understanding of different cultures their people and life... people live differently outside the US believe it or not.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
Are you god? do you see everything? and i suggest you read up on the purpose of a press-release its offical news and not some 3rd party announcment made in some 3rd party forum by some 1 how might be telling the truth.
WoW isn't free in China, and if you're going to convert the price of the game into USD per hour, then not only do you need to multiply that figure by how many hours per month you play, you have to take into consideration how much less people earn over there (in USD). Factor in a little something called THE ECONOMY and variables such as operating cost and suddenly the whole China deal becomes significantly more lucrative.
WoW is not free, or nearly free, I've never seen so many people desperate to downplay the success of the game. You simply cannot argue with the simple logic I've provided for you.
And what is the point of arguing anyway, no matter how you try to put a spin onto figures, it still sells many times more than anything else out there. Not to mention, if other games were even near the success of WoW they would be releasing figures like these as well. It's called marketing. Wasn't there some game that was so desperate to get itself noticed it counted the number of characters to measure it's success? That's far more misleading than Blizzard's figures.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent.
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:
In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
It actualy costs $5 (USA) to buy a CD-KEY.. its not free. and you get no free time.
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
They had to wait 8 months for the9 to release the expansion, pay $35 or wait 8 months? hum.
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
Chinese players cannot play in western servers, unless they fake their IP etc. The9, the company that runs WoW in china does not list wester servers, players have to use work arounds and hacks to get onto western servers.
Also the average income for some 1 in china is $2,000 a year compared to $44,000 in US and $38,000 in western europe, we then have to factor in different living costs, taxes etc and also a different culture when it comes to games and gaming.
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
They dont play for free, they use up their 'points every hour' and they have to buy points in batches oof 30 costing $4, they also have to pay the cyber cafe every hour.
For some 1 who was *apparently* there 5 weeks ago, you know nothing about how WoW is run in China... you just make ya self look silly. Your also lacking in any understanding of different cultures their people and life... people live differently outside the US believe it or not.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
Are you god? do you see everything? and i suggest you read up on the purpose of a press-release its offical news and not some 3rd party announcment made in some 3rd party forum by some 1 how might be telling the truth.
There are pools of free to use CD codes, many thousands of them, at many major Chinese Universities, including Beijing University and Qinghua univesity. People I talked to, swaped them around all the time. There are lists of CD codes, on the university servers, most were prepaid for long periods, it being so cheap, from people who got bored and quit. The student recreation places at these universities, and the cyber cafe's on the street nearby offer the equivalent of game cards (with a scratch off pin number ) for 2 yuan, about ~ $.30 which is good for 25 or so hours of gameplay. Many students from these universities, like here, play on their own laptops which are free to use in a cyber cafe. Keep in mind that The9 are the ones that collect the money, and it is very unlikely that 100% goes back to Vivendi.
The expansion comes free now, or you can buy burned copies on the street for $1-2.
Chinese player can and do play on western servers, any current player can tell you that. There are several "hosting" sites that people long into that allow them to to log into the Western servers. Don't need to hack, or workaround, just long into the host and connect to WoW.
Hate much? I have spent more time living outside the US than in it. Yes, the average household income in China is $2000 or so. The household average income for someone living in Beijing/Shanghai is at least 5-10X that, or they couldn't live there these days. And the cost of living is proportionally STILL much less than the West. And for some of the students going to the major universities, they had more $$$ than I do, courtesy of mom and dad, because of city people following the One Child Policy.
And just so you learn something today, so your life is not a total waste, let me tell you how corporate revenues are booked in a case like this. Vivendi says we have X million subscription months @ $15/12 EU a total revenue of $1.3 bil, because that is what they say the service is worth at the top market rate. But, because say 60 million of those subscription months are in a "developing market" they have to sell those months at a discount of say 95%, since that is what the local market will bear. So they then write off / write down 60 million sub months at a 95% or so discount, at least, so instead of 60 mil @ $15 = 900 mil they get 60 mil @ $1 = $60 million in actual cash. They get to write off the difference as a promotional/market expense on the back end, so they get to claim big revenue on the front end but write down the difference on the back end when "net profit" is calculated. I don't claim these numbers are accurate, just using them as an example of how things are done in many industries. You can "lie" in the press all you want, but you can't lie to the tax man or shareholders. It's called accounting.
And how many Chinese WoW players have you talked to in China? More? Less? When was the last time you were there? Chinese word of wisdom, since you seem to be needing some, "Bai wen buru Yi jian." Trans- Hearing about something 100 times is not as good as seeing it once. Sport.
So I guess Blizzard really is just giving away millions of accounts and all those reported revenues are just accounting wizardry and very Enron like counting free give aways as revenue.
That is not 9.3 mil paying $15/mo or the equivalent.
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:
In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
It actualy costs $5 (USA) to buy a CD-KEY.. its not free. and you get no free time.
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
They had to wait 8 months for the9 to release the expansion, pay $35 or wait 8 months? hum.
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
Chinese players cannot play in western servers, unless they fake their IP etc. The9, the company that runs WoW in china does not list wester servers, players have to use work arounds and hacks to get onto western servers.
Also the average income for some 1 in china is $2,000 a year compared to $44,000 in US and $38,000 in western europe, we then have to factor in different living costs, taxes etc and also a different culture when it comes to games and gaming.
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
They dont play for free, they use up their 'points every hour' and they have to buy points in batches oof 30 costing $4, they also have to pay the cyber cafe every hour.
For some 1 who was *apparently* there 5 weeks ago, you know nothing about how WoW is run in China... you just make ya self look silly. Your also lacking in any understanding of different cultures their people and life... people live differently outside the US believe it or not.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
Are you god? do you see everything? and i suggest you read up on the purpose of a press-release its offical news and not some 3rd party announcment made in some 3rd party forum by some 1 how might be telling the truth.
There are pools of free to use CD codes, many thousands of them, at many major Chinese Universities, including Beijing University and Qinghua univesity. People I talked to, swaped them around all the time. There are lists of CD codes, on the university servers, most were prepaid for long periods, it being so cheap, from people who got bored and quit. The student recreation places at these universities, and the cyber cafe's on the street nearby offer the equivalent of game cards (with a scratch off pin number ) for 2 yuan, about ~ $.30 which is good for 25 or so hours of gameplay. Many students from these universities, like here, play on their own laptops which are free to use in a cyber cafe. Keep in mind that The9 are the ones that collect the money, and it is very unlikely that 100% goes back to Vivendi.
The expansion comes free now, or you can buy burned copies on the street for $1-2.
Chinese player can and do play on western servers, any current player can tell you that. There are several "hosting" sites that people long into that allow them to to log into the Western servers. Don't need to hack, or workaround, just long into the host and connect to WoW.
Hate much? I have spent more time living outside the US than in it. Yes, the average household income in China is $2000 or so. The household average income for someone living in Beijing/Shanghai is at least 5-10X that, or they couldn't live there these days. And the cost of living is proportionally STILL much less than the West. And for some of the students going to the major universities, they had more $$$ than I do, courtesy of mom and dad, because of city people following the One Child Policy.
And just so you learn something today, so your life is not a total waste, let me tell you how corporate revenues are booked in a case like this. Vivendi says we have X million subscription months @ $15/12 EU a total revenue of $1.3 bil, because that is what they say the service is worth at the top market rate. But, because say 60 million of those subscription months are in a "developing market" they have to sell those months at a discount of say 95%, since that is what the local market will bear. So they then write off / write down 60 million sub months at a 95% or so discount, at least, so instead of 60 mil @ $15 = 900 mil they get 60 mil @ $1 = $60 million in actual cash. They get to write off the difference as a promotional/market expense on the back end, so they get to claim big revenue on the front end but write down the difference on the back end when "net profit" is calculated. I don't claim these numbers are accurate, just using them as an example of how things are done in many industries. You can "lie" in the press all you want, but you can't lie to the tax man or shareholders. It's called accounting.
And how many Chinese WoW players have you talked to in China? More? Less? When was the last time you were there? Chinese word of wisdom, since you seem to be needing some, "Bai wen buru Yi jian." Trans- Hearing about something 100 times is not as good as seeing it once. Sport.
You need to learn to read and learn accounting. They are not discounting anything on their balance sheets. There is $1.6 BILLION dollars on their annual balance sheets for WoW alone. No where on there do they discount anything. They pay their taxes, pay their share holders and still hold back revenues over $400 million dollars for last year from World of Warcraft alone. You don't hold back that kind money if you are discounting over 7 million subscriptions @ the rate of $14 a month as you are suggesting. If they did, it would be in their financials and it isn't the case. Also, Blizzard is retaining their own fair share and if you learn to read financials, you'd see that Blizzard has enough cash on hand they never have to worry about money again. So, like I said, learn to read accounting.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
You know what, you are right, I give up. WoW servers are empty. You can never find a group. The game will shut down by January 2008 at the latest because Fury, TR, HG:L, AoC, PoTBS, and Darkfall are all going to put WoW out of it's misery because they are all WoW killers. Their next expansion they are working on is Vaporware. The $400 million after tax cash from just last fiscal year alone that Blizzard is hanging on to for further development, not to mention the first two years, is all make believe money that Blizzard doesn't have. Someone call Blizzard and ask them to stop spreading all these lies because INDEPENDENTLY audited financials can't possibly tell the truth at Blizzard.
Give me a break people, stop the damn WoW hating already.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
They were bitching about and hating games before WOW and they'll be bitching and hating after WOW is long dead. They're almost professional in their level of anti-gaming establishment hate mongering and conspiracy theorizing. You'll not convince them of anything but their absolute correctness and visionary forethought. They are on a different plane man, and your reasoning powers are puny. You're just naive and can't see things as clearly as them.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Just a quick note, if you end a venomous post, inferring that the person you're attacking has a meaningless life, with a condescending one word sentence, in this case "Sport.", it immediately nullifies any credibility you had in the first place. It's one of the unwritten rules of the Interweb.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Comments
Yep just talked to a friend that returned from Beijing, she said even those that actually pay for the game, pay an insanely cheap price and that most high school and college kids have five or six accounts and China is where 90% of the subscriber base is from , but even so that doesn’t mean anything the game is popular, but then again millions of people buy Ronco products every year….that dosen’t make the Vegimatic not suck.
They don't break the numbers down into US, EU and Asia. My belief is because that would reveal that US/EU numbers are falling, and Asia are accounting for a bulk of any gains....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Dude. Please read teh posts. Obviously you didn't read more than a couple posts and then posted here an argument that has already been refuted. Comparing wow to products that aren't mmorpgs that sell alot is a big fallacy and only makes you look ignorant. For instance, comparing wow to brittney spears says nothing about the price and demand, only the quantity of units sold. It also says nothing of quality. For example, McDonalds sells hundreds and millions of burgers but they sell to the same demographic, they do not claim to be a high quality product producing business either. Wow on the other hand is continuely rated the greatest mmorpg at all sites. It is also a high quality product, meaning that years and years went into its development. A cheeseburger is made in a matter of hours. It took wow more than 5 years to be made or so. Also, it is a luxury product by definition according to its demand curve. No a luxury product is not perfume or shampoo. Luxury products are mostly electronics like big screen t.v. cable telivions etc....bmws. The only thing that determines if a product is a luxury product is its demand curve. That is the only component of hte definition. Difining the word luxury and then product and then adding those definitions together does not mean taht something si a luxury product in economics. I repeate, for the ignorant, and yes someone did define lxury and then product last time i posted this and told me thats what a luxury product was.Yep just talked to a friend that returned from Beijing, she said even those that actually pay for the game, pay an insanely cheap price and that most high school and college kids have five or six accounts and China is where 90% of the subscriber base is from , but even so that doesn’t mean anything the game is popular, but then again millions of people buy Ronco products every year….that dosen’t make the Vegimatic not suck.
Anyways...to make a long story short...comparing wow to french fries or brittney spears is not only highly ignorant but it also demonstrates that the very same things the critiques accuse wow players of they suffer from, stupidity, if they make that argument. Now if you don't like wow because it is too easy, that is a different story that can be argued ina different post. But please, for the love of GOD stop comparing wow to a cheeseburger. What is to stop me from doing this with EQ according to your own logic? Absolutely nothing. Secondd....I'm not trying to flame, just trying to educate. For the record I currently am Playing Vanguard, hellgate london, wow, and EQ....and of all those wow is still the best in present, past, and future tense because of polish, balance, gameplay, etc.
Not according to Blizzard. They've said that their numbers continue to grow in each of EU, NA, and Asia. So, unless you can prove otherwise, we have to go with Vivendi's financials that show them making over $1.3 Billion a year.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I really dont understand what you are arguing about. I believe most ppl on this forum are gamers and not shareholders or investors who are thinking of buying or selling vivendi/blizzard stocks, casue only in that case someone would be interested in the financial figures and worldwide subscribers numbers Vivendi has announced. This numbers are obviously the result of increasing the overall marketvolume of the game by entering new markets (Asia) and NOT their market share in a specific market.
How much could someone in the US/EU care about increasing subscribers numbers in a freshly opened market where the product lifecycle starts from the beginning, while he numbers in HIS market in falling casue people played the game already for 3 years, got bored and move on to other games. The thing that cares people who play or played wow is if their servers are enough populated to get groups together or if their friends are still playing etc.
A similar situation was the "beatle" from volkswagen. After it was long out-dated in its original markets they shipped whole manufacturing plants to southamerica where the product boomed again, was produced and sold long after the it was just old crap in Europe.
So maybe they release the game next year in India and several African coutries to catch up with the decline in EU/US. Does that mean the lifecycle of the game isnt coming to an end in the EU/US ???
Impressive for a 2 year old MMO.
In 2000 Britney Spears sold 10.4 million copies of Oops!... I Did It Again. Guess what? I don't care.
Most smart people wouldn't either. Numbers do not equal quality and whether you admit it or not this post is meant to mislead people into thinking WoW must be great because it has 9mil+. I'm sure we'll even get the normal (extremely retarded) posts like "9 mil can't be wrong". Unless you were directing this post towards people who own Vivendi/Blizzard stock, the numbers shouldn't matter. But I am pretty sure that was never your intention. Your intention was to simply brag and boast about WoW with out directly saying it.
Oops!... I Did It Again was mainstream trash and so is WoW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oops_I_Did_It_Again
Relative to gaming, WoW is more comparable to these artists:
http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php?table=tblTopArt
I don't see Britney Spears there...
Nice numbers, but they are for all the CDs sales combined (for each band). I only referenced a single CD. WoW is still garbage.
Oh and one more thing, she is on that list. Have a nice day being a tool.
What is with you? Why did the poster above you deserve to be called a tool? Seriously?
That's how all the kids talk these days...
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Dude. Please read teh posts. Obviously you didn't read more than a couple posts and then posted here an argument that has already been refuted. Comparing wow to products that aren't mmorpgs that sell alot is a big fallacy and only makes you look ignorant.Yep just talked to a friend that returned from Beijing, she said even those that actually pay for the game, pay an insanely cheap price and that most high school and college kids have five or six accounts and China is where 90% of the subscriber base is from , but even so that doesn’t mean anything the game is popular, but then again millions of people buy Ronco products every year….that dosen’t make the Vegimatic not suck.
Okay don't even have to rebutt this one, I'll let the post and the handle "WoW4lifer " speak for itself.
Don't matter how many subs WOW has. They are split up over tons of servers. EVE has 1 server everyone is on together. There is usually around 30,000 people online at most times. How many people on each WOW server? Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it's closer to 5,000
Also numbers don't change the fact that Wow is just to kiddie cartoony for me. The safe pvp system also does not appeal to me. All the annoying waves of children also does not appeal to me (no offense to you smarter kids out there).
Numbers don't mean it's good. More people bought Michael Jackson albums then Slayer, but I still like Slayer. What I have learned in life is Most people suck.
Gratz Wow on a good buisness model for so many MMO's to copy and release more corperate garbage to make a profit instead of new innovative games. I do hope Bioware does not follow the herd. EVE sure hasn't
SHOHADAKU
Really? You like Slayer? I'm more of a Hammerfall person myself.....
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
http://www.blizzard.com/press/070724.shtml
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
That's not becuase wow is cheaper there, it is because the dollar is worthless than there own currency. That is economics and applies to everything there from cheese to bmws.
Can someone post to me research demonstrating a correlation between spelling and your arument being wrong or right?
Dude. Please read teh posts. Obviously you didn't read more than a couple posts and then posted here an argument that has already been refuted. Comparing wow to products that aren't mmorpgs that sell alot is a big fallacy and only makes you look ignorant.Yep just talked to a friend that returned from Beijing, she said even those that actually pay for the game, pay an insanely cheap price and that most high school and college kids have five or six accounts and China is where 90% of the subscriber base is from , but even so that doesn’t mean anything the game is popular, but then again millions of people buy Ronco products every year….that dosen’t make the Vegimatic not suck.
Okay don't even have to rebutt this one, I'll let the post and the handle "WoW4lifer " speak for itself.
Can someone post to me research demonstrating a correlation between spelling and your arument being wrong or right?
How many accounts exist for RuneScape and the other free to play MMO? Since WoW is almost free in Asia and that about 90% of their player base is in Asia, it should be compared to free to play MMO located in Asia.
WoW is a shadow of what it used to be in term of subscribtions in town. Still more peoples playing WoW then any other MMO, but not even 1/3 of the peoples who used to at peak moment.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
http://www.blizzard.com/press/070724.shtml
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
YEAH! Screw them. Blizzard is a bunch of liars! I'll take this Burntvet guy's word for it. He sounds like a sensible person with no bias against the game. I'm sure his name is in reference to some other game. Or maybe he's trying to say he's ex-military... Anyway, Blizzard lies I tell you!!
.... and don't want to forget to mention SOE and EA hate gamers.
FIGHT THE POWER!!
EDIT: I'm sure all those $0's you're throwing around have some significance to the $1.3 Billion revenue they reported. I just don't see it.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
http://www.blizzard.com/press/070724.shtml
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
It actualy costs $5 (USA) to buy a CD-KEY.. its not free. and you get no free time.
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
They had to wait 8 months for the9 to release the expansion, pay $35 or wait 8 months? hum.
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
Chinese players cannot play in western servers, unless they fake their IP etc. The9, the company that runs WoW in china does not list wester servers, players have to use work arounds and hacks to get onto western servers.
Also the average income for some 1 in china is $2,000 a year compared to $44,000 in US and $38,000 in western europe, we then have to factor in different living costs, taxes etc and also a different culture when it comes to games and gaming.
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
They dont play for free, they use up their 'points every hour' and they have to buy points in batches oof 30 costing $4, they also have to pay the cyber cafe every hour.
For some 1 who was *apparently* there 5 weeks ago, you know nothing about how WoW is run in China... you just make ya self look silly. Your also lacking in any understanding of different cultures their people and life... people live differently outside the US believe it or not.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
Are you god? do you see everything? and i suggest you read up on the purpose of a press-release its offical news and not some 3rd party announcment made in some 3rd party forum by some 1 how might be telling the truth.
WoW isn't free in China, and if you're going to convert the price of the game into USD per hour, then not only do you need to multiply that figure by how many hours per month you play, you have to take into consideration how much less people earn over there (in USD). Factor in a little something called THE ECONOMY and variables such as operating cost and suddenly the whole China deal becomes significantly more lucrative.
WoW is not free, or nearly free, I've never seen so many people desperate to downplay the success of the game. You simply cannot argue with the simple logic I've provided for you.
And what is the point of arguing anyway, no matter how you try to put a spin onto figures, it still sells many times more than anything else out there. Not to mention, if other games were even near the success of WoW they would be releasing figures like these as well. It's called marketing. Wasn't there some game that was so desperate to get itself noticed it counted the number of characters to measure it's success? That's far more misleading than Blizzard's figures.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
http://www.blizzard.com/press/070724.shtml
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
It actualy costs $5 (USA) to buy a CD-KEY.. its not free. and you get no free time.
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
They had to wait 8 months for the9 to release the expansion, pay $35 or wait 8 months? hum.
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
Chinese players cannot play in western servers, unless they fake their IP etc. The9, the company that runs WoW in china does not list wester servers, players have to use work arounds and hacks to get onto western servers.
Also the average income for some 1 in china is $2,000 a year compared to $44,000 in US and $38,000 in western europe, we then have to factor in different living costs, taxes etc and also a different culture when it comes to games and gaming.
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
They dont play for free, they use up their 'points every hour' and they have to buy points in batches oof 30 costing $4, they also have to pay the cyber cafe every hour.
For some 1 who was *apparently* there 5 weeks ago, you know nothing about how WoW is run in China... you just make ya self look silly. Your also lacking in any understanding of different cultures their people and life... people live differently outside the US believe it or not.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
Are you god? do you see everything? and i suggest you read up on the purpose of a press-release its offical news and not some 3rd party announcment made in some 3rd party forum by some 1 how might be telling the truth.
There are pools of free to use CD codes, many thousands of them, at many major Chinese Universities, including Beijing University and Qinghua univesity. People I talked to, swaped them around all the time. There are lists of CD codes, on the university servers, most were prepaid for long periods, it being so cheap, from people who got bored and quit. The student recreation places at these universities, and the cyber cafe's on the street nearby offer the equivalent of game cards (with a scratch off pin number ) for 2 yuan, about ~ $.30 which is good for 25 or so hours of gameplay. Many students from these universities, like here, play on their own laptops which are free to use in a cyber cafe. Keep in mind that The9 are the ones that collect the money, and it is very unlikely that 100% goes back to Vivendi.
The expansion comes free now, or you can buy burned copies on the street for $1-2.
Chinese player can and do play on western servers, any current player can tell you that. There are several "hosting" sites that people long into that allow them to to log into the Western servers. Don't need to hack, or workaround, just long into the host and connect to WoW.
Hate much? I have spent more time living outside the US than in it. Yes, the average household income in China is $2000 or so. The household average income for someone living in Beijing/Shanghai is at least 5-10X that, or they couldn't live there these days. And the cost of living is proportionally STILL much less than the West. And for some of the students going to the major universities, they had more $$$ than I do, courtesy of mom and dad, because of city people following the One Child Policy.
And just so you learn something today, so your life is not a total waste, let me tell you how corporate revenues are booked in a case like this. Vivendi says we have X million subscription months @ $15/12 EU a total revenue of $1.3 bil, because that is what they say the service is worth at the top market rate. But, because say 60 million of those subscription months are in a "developing market" they have to sell those months at a discount of say 95%, since that is what the local market will bear. So they then write off / write down 60 million sub months at a 95% or so discount, at least, so instead of 60 mil @ $15 = 900 mil they get 60 mil @ $1 = $60 million in actual cash. They get to write off the difference as a promotional/market expense on the back end, so they get to claim big revenue on the front end but write down the difference on the back end when "net profit" is calculated. I don't claim these numbers are accurate, just using them as an example of how things are done in many industries. You can "lie" in the press all you want, but you can't lie to the tax man or shareholders. It's called accounting.
And how many Chinese WoW players have you talked to in China? More? Less? When was the last time you were there? Chinese word of wisdom, since you seem to be needing some, "Bai wen buru Yi jian." Trans- Hearing about something 100 times is not as good as seeing it once. Sport.
hehe...Way to own the fanbois, burntvet
Most of the time, people talk out their ass on forums anyway. I know I do.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
So I guess Blizzard really is just giving away millions of accounts and all those reported revenues are just accounting wizardry and very Enron like counting free give aways as revenue.
Yay logic!
Dam right it isn't. That number includes every asian that payed to play in cafes etc. They play for one hour, it's counted for the month. And im sure they would love to shove who they arent counting in our faces, we just have to look around for everyone it does count.
I don't know anything about how it's sold or anything in asia, but that does sound shocking if that is true. By doing that, they deal a massive blow to the game's economy (assuming it had one. Never played WoW) and simply do a bit of wordplay to brag about a rediculously large number of active players?
Sounds like a rather sadistic way to draw in players IMO.
http://www.blizzard.com/press/070724.shtml
World of Warcraft's Subscriber Definition
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Learn to read and think about what you said. Vivendi, which is a publically traded company and discloses it's financial gains from Blizzard said that World of Warcraft revenue was over $1,300,000,000 last fiscal year. That is $1.3 Billion dollars on the paper work they pay their taxes on.
You can deny all you want to, but they are not just saying 9.3 million subscribers to make things up. They are saying that because they HAVE to disclose the information to show their taxing authority where they got $1.3 Billion dollars and how they are spending/investing it.
Vivendi can say anything they want. You can say anything you want. What I can say is:In China, right now, it costs $0.0 to get a new acct (you also get free playtime with new accts)
It actualy costs $5 (USA) to buy a CD-KEY.. its not free. and you get no free time.
In China, right now, the last expansion costs $0.0 to get
They had to wait 8 months for the9 to release the expansion, pay $35 or wait 8 months? hum.
In China, right now, it cost between $0.015-0.030/hour to play WoW, depending if you want to play on a Chinese or Western server
Chinese players cannot play in western servers, unless they fake their IP etc. The9, the company that runs WoW in china does not list wester servers, players have to use work arounds and hacks to get onto western servers.
Also the average income for some 1 in china is $2,000 a year compared to $44,000 in US and $38,000 in western europe, we then have to factor in different living costs, taxes etc and also a different culture when it comes to games and gaming.
I was there not 5 weeks ago, and saw people playing in cyber-cafes all the time, for free.
They dont play for free, they use up their 'points every hour' and they have to buy points in batches oof 30 costing $4, they also have to pay the cyber cafe every hour.
For some 1 who was *apparently* there 5 weeks ago, you know nothing about how WoW is run in China... you just make ya self look silly. Your also lacking in any understanding of different cultures their people and life... people live differently outside the US believe it or not.
Tell me again how I should believe some press release more than what I saw with my own eyes?
Are you god? do you see everything? and i suggest you read up on the purpose of a press-release its offical news and not some 3rd party announcment made in some 3rd party forum by some 1 how might be telling the truth.
There are pools of free to use CD codes, many thousands of them, at many major Chinese Universities, including Beijing University and Qinghua univesity. People I talked to, swaped them around all the time. There are lists of CD codes, on the university servers, most were prepaid for long periods, it being so cheap, from people who got bored and quit. The student recreation places at these universities, and the cyber cafe's on the street nearby offer the equivalent of game cards (with a scratch off pin number ) for 2 yuan, about ~ $.30 which is good for 25 or so hours of gameplay. Many students from these universities, like here, play on their own laptops which are free to use in a cyber cafe. Keep in mind that The9 are the ones that collect the money, and it is very unlikely that 100% goes back to Vivendi.
The expansion comes free now, or you can buy burned copies on the street for $1-2.
Chinese player can and do play on western servers, any current player can tell you that. There are several "hosting" sites that people long into that allow them to to log into the Western servers. Don't need to hack, or workaround, just long into the host and connect to WoW.
Hate much? I have spent more time living outside the US than in it. Yes, the average household income in China is $2000 or so. The household average income for someone living in Beijing/Shanghai is at least 5-10X that, or they couldn't live there these days. And the cost of living is proportionally STILL much less than the West. And for some of the students going to the major universities, they had more $$$ than I do, courtesy of mom and dad, because of city people following the One Child Policy.
And just so you learn something today, so your life is not a total waste, let me tell you how corporate revenues are booked in a case like this. Vivendi says we have X million subscription months @ $15/12 EU a total revenue of $1.3 bil, because that is what they say the service is worth at the top market rate. But, because say 60 million of those subscription months are in a "developing market" they have to sell those months at a discount of say 95%, since that is what the local market will bear. So they then write off / write down 60 million sub months at a 95% or so discount, at least, so instead of 60 mil @ $15 = 900 mil they get 60 mil @ $1 = $60 million in actual cash. They get to write off the difference as a promotional/market expense on the back end, so they get to claim big revenue on the front end but write down the difference on the back end when "net profit" is calculated. I don't claim these numbers are accurate, just using them as an example of how things are done in many industries. You can "lie" in the press all you want, but you can't lie to the tax man or shareholders. It's called accounting.
And how many Chinese WoW players have you talked to in China? More? Less? When was the last time you were there? Chinese word of wisdom, since you seem to be needing some, "Bai wen buru Yi jian." Trans- Hearing about something 100 times is not as good as seeing it once. Sport.
You need to learn to read and learn accounting. They are not discounting anything on their balance sheets. There is $1.6 BILLION dollars on their annual balance sheets for WoW alone. No where on there do they discount anything. They pay their taxes, pay their share holders and still hold back revenues over $400 million dollars for last year from World of Warcraft alone. You don't hold back that kind money if you are discounting over 7 million subscriptions @ the rate of $14 a month as you are suggesting. If they did, it would be in their financials and it isn't the case. Also, Blizzard is retaining their own fair share and if you learn to read financials, you'd see that Blizzard has enough cash on hand they never have to worry about money again. So, like I said, learn to read accounting.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
You know what, you are right, I give up. WoW servers are empty. You can never find a group. The game will shut down by January 2008 at the latest because Fury, TR, HG:L, AoC, PoTBS, and Darkfall are all going to put WoW out of it's misery because they are all WoW killers. Their next expansion they are working on is Vaporware. The $400 million after tax cash from just last fiscal year alone that Blizzard is hanging on to for further development, not to mention the first two years, is all make believe money that Blizzard doesn't have. Someone call Blizzard and ask them to stop spreading all these lies because INDEPENDENTLY audited financials can't possibly tell the truth at Blizzard.
Give me a break people, stop the damn WoW hating already.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
They were bitching about and hating games before WOW and they'll be bitching and hating after WOW is long dead. They're almost professional in their level of anti-gaming establishment hate mongering and conspiracy theorizing. You'll not convince them of anything but their absolute correctness and visionary forethought. They are on a different plane man, and your reasoning powers are puny. You're just naive and can't see things as clearly as them.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Just a quick note, if you end a venomous post, inferring that the person you're attacking has a meaningless life, with a condescending one word sentence, in this case "Sport.", it immediately nullifies any credibility you had in the first place. It's one of the unwritten rules of the Interweb.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...