I voted that PvP is an important feature in a MMO as PvE alone can get boring and repetative after a whle. However PvP isant just a palyer fighting another in force of arms, For example in EvE PvP can be competing traders competing on the markets whose PvP tactics could include selling bulk items first to get max profit and to lower his oponents profits or if he is devious enough and he can afford it it can involve hiriing a pirate to blow up his shipments so he cant sell entirely.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
I'm not real big on quests. I like grinding, and Pvp. It's nice to switch between those activities for some variety. I"m also not real big on crafting, but don't mind if there is crafting in the game, since some people like that.
I got to have some pvp; and more particularly, WORLD-PVP. If all I'm doing is fighting programs, or little collections of textured polygons that appear and stand in this one little spot forever, (mobs), well, I might last 3 minutes with a game like that... but no more.
I think PvP is important because it provides a good end game factor I mean what do you do once you are leveled up and there is only mobs left grind them for cash or reroll an alt and do it all over again. Or do you go and compete against others try out diffrent armor till you have the ones that works for you in PvP. I know people will not agree but WoW got it right in a way but not totally I mean with the whole BGs and Areans provides a big endgame content if you ask me.
I couldn't agree more. I started MMORPGs entirely for the PvE, and still really enjoy it. But, taking WoW for example, once I exhausted all of the PvE content (that didn't require a "second-job-like" raiding schedule) I seriously got into PvP. Now I see it as essential, and I plan to play on PvP servers in the future for AoC and other MMOs I get into. Frankly, no matter how good an AI script is, humans are much smarter, less predictable, and more challenging to kill. And especially for endgame, I need to be challenged or I'm just bored. For a new raid boss, you can just go on the boards and read up on the tactics, the recreate them - you know exactly how the boss will act and when. For PvP encounters, you can generally study tactics against certain classes, but you never know for sure what the other guy(s) will do this time, which for me is really fun.
For me an mmo needs to have a pvp system. FFAPVP I dont like but the game has to have some pvp areas.
To the OP's comment; yes FPSers are more pvp based but its a completely different kind of battle. MMOs are more about thinking things through, being prepared, and tactical. FPSers are more twitch based with less tactics needed. I know they started to merge twich combat and mmos but I think its a fad and it wont work or last long.
For those uninterested in following the link, the PvE to PvP preference is about 2:1. Women are rather strongly averse to PvP. Roleplaying preferences seems to lean in the direction of "I might try it, but it's nothing I'm concerned about."
Both this post and Nick's research involve self-selecting voters, so both will be skewed a bit. I believe Nick canvassed active players, while this forum is populated by more enthusiastic players in general. It only makes sense that we'd have a higher density of PvP players here. It matches my experiences in other online forums.
My vote was strongly negative because we're talking about MMOs. In FPS games, I don't have any accomplishments hanging in the balance, so I'm just looking for a good fight.
I highly recommend reading Nick Yee's Daedalus project site. If you want to get your head on straight about the demographics and motivations of MMO players, Nick has provided a wealth of working material.
Looks like PvE'ers are gonna lose. It's been 7 years. They've had a good run.
Viva la PvP!
Now if we could just get more people from mainstream society to try WoW so they could become dissapointed with it in 2 years and demand the personal confrontation they see on their TV and in their xbox live/PSN video games...
Lol. PvE'ers ground through so many games and gave away so much of their money in the process they've litereally paid for MMORPG's success, it's popularity, and thus- it's secession to mainstream society and PvP.
But PvP-oriented... no thanks... I'd rather play an FPS for that
Definitely helps to have a compelling PvP system :-) Battlegrounds are no fun for me... I like unstructured battles, ala SWG
MMOs played (In order of how much I've liked them): Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Vanguard, City of Villains / Heroes, Guild Wars, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa, Anarchy Online, Ryzom, Final Fantasy XI, Matrix Online, RF Online, Rappelz, Hero Online, Roma Victor
It all depends on the game's universe and how PvP is implemented.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
Free for all pvp isnt a requirement of mine,its a very pointless mechanic to just run around ganking people with no consequence or purpose;pvp needs a point to it such as area control,base capturing,or some kind of ladder system. I also like to have consequence to your actions such as being marked as an outlaw and having friendly npcs become hostile to you I hope that we start to see non gear based games more often. Ive played/play both free for all and consentual pvp games,so im not bothered if either system is in place as long as its balanced and has a point to it,be it guild warfare,faction or racial.
100% agree, as I heard at DAOC you shoud have such a system - 3 different realms that could attack each other at the borders only (so you could stay away if you want). Never have played DAOC but have to say as a casual PvE player that PvP system might be even worth a look for me.
Dont care much for PvP in MMO's, but what we PvE people often forget is that even for us it serves purpose.
It is great to get some hard figures on your setup, resists, damage, avoids, specials and so on and so forth.
For this purpose alone I want at least arena type PvP.
Then there are totally PvP oriented games, like EVE, that I still play and I do not see how that game could even work without PvP.
The entire economy is built around us 0.0 people needing new ships constantly, without PvP that game would just die.
Other then that, PvP in MMO's is for people that can not handle FPS combat and make up for it with extreme amounts of time investment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am really surprised with the turn the poll results have taken. I anticipated less people would care for PvP in MMORPGs, and I think that is one feature that mainstream gamers and I differ on.
My concern about PvP is that it replaces PvE as the focus for developers. I think why people play MMORPGS --(1) world immersion; (2) adventure; (3) sophisticated character customization; (4) deep Questing as opposed to "tasking-- are elements lacking in MMORPGs while PvP is becoming more prominent and important to developers.
I suppose the ultimate question is, comparatively, do you prefer PvP to PvE? I suspect most peopel will want (1) world immersion; (2) adventure; (3) sophisticated character customization; (4) deep Questing as opposed to "tasking over PvP.
----- WoW and fast food = commercial successes. I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
This is the reason why mmorpgs are so primitive right now. There should not be a big difference between PVE and PVP. Competition can be between Guilds to overcome obstacles faster like who kills the epic boss. You can have peaceful competition like we had in City of Heroes in regards to costume contests. You could have contests like who has the best looking house on the block.
Player vs Player does not mean I get to kill you per se (survival of the fittest). You can put this type of gameplay out there in open pvp zones for those who want that too. But when the warrior tires of fighting for survival, he can relax in a pub tossing darts with his fellow man
You can have PvP on a 100% PVE server. Right now mmos are so combat focused we've lost this. I've played games in other genres where it was friendly competition like solving puzzles, who can get through the maze the fasteest, and such
another example- players in WoW compete for virtual items via the Auction House. A schewd crafter might try to take the market by buying up the items and raise the prices significantly if there is a shortage of a certain type of resource
oh btw- even though the poll is in favor of PVP it is only a tiny sample of what MMORPG population says. It varies on the community. If you go to Darkfall community you might get 100% must have PVP. If you conduct a survey inside of World Of Warcraft, you might still get PVP is a nice option
its really common sense. The more options you give a player the more viable your MMO is. when I joined EVE I planned on being a pirate but after a few weeks I realized I wanted to pursue crafting. goals change after players get exposed to the game.
I am really surprised with the turn the poll results have taken. I anticipated less people would care for PvP in MMORPGs, and I think that is one feature that mainstream gamers and I differ on.
My concern about PvP is that it replaces PvE as the focus for developers. I think why people play MMORPGS --(1) world immersion; (2) adventure; (3) sophisticated character customization; (4) deep Questing as opposed to "tasking-- are elements lacking in MMORPGs while PvP is becoming more prominent and important to developers.
I suppose the ultimate question is, comparatively, do you prefer PvP to PvE? I suspect most peopel will want (1) world immersion; (2) adventure; (3) sophisticated character customization; (4) deep Questing as opposed to "tasking over PvP.
Peoples on this board are not representative of the mainstream gamers. This is a PvP-focused forum. EvEngelists are everywhere here, and they are usually cool and nice.
A PvE player is far less likely to stroll boards then a PvP player, he is less competitive and less aggresive, thereby he usually focus less on getting every edges. Casuals players are also less likely to go on any forum.
Any poll taken here is seriously leaning toward EvE and DAoC. These are good games, but they are by no means addressed at the majority, and the EA staff working on WAR is kinda blind to that fact.
Humans often read what they want to read. If you want everyone to enjoy fishing and do a survey about fishing at National Geographic office, those datas won't be representative of the majority of society, they will only represent what peoples who go at the National Geographic office enjoys themselves.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye Casuals players are also less likely to go on any forum.
I think that is a very good point that casual players are less likely to participate in a forum.
However, based on my experience here, my sense was that the majority of people have described themselves as "casual" players.
I also agree about WAR. I just posted about WAR in the news section how I hope there is a 1) sandbox feel and 2) not a focus on raiding. One of my friends is in a BETA guild, and you can count on raiding.
----- WoW and fast food = commercial successes. I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
I am really surprised with the turn the poll results have taken. I anticipated less people would care for PvP in MMORPGs, and I think that is one feature that mainstream gamers and I differ on.
My concern about PvP is that it replaces PvE as the focus for developers. I think why people play MMORPGS --(1) world immersion; (2) adventure; (3) sophisticated character customization; (4) deep Questing as opposed to "tasking-- are elements lacking in MMORPGs while PvP is becoming more prominent and important to developers.
I suppose the ultimate question is, comparatively, do you prefer PvP to PvE? I suspect most peopel will want (1) world immersion; (2) adventure; (3) sophisticated character customization; (4) deep Questing as opposed to "tasking over PvP.
The main reason (IMO) why you see so many MMO fans thats are pro-PvP is because PvE in most MMO's is, well, pretty awful. It looks interesting, but it's always so repetitive/dull/boring. The classes are all fairly easy to figure out, then you just repeat the formula. The mobs are WAY too predictable as they never really do anything random or unexpected. Over all, it's just not a challenging or engagin experience.
I would prefer a great PvE game, but I just don't see it happening.
Whats the point of playing in a online world if your not allowed to fight the other people like you.
I cant believe there is anyone who says PvP has no place in MMO's, because you are delusional and missing the point. If you think its place is not in MMO's than I would recommend finding a game with some nice co-op.
MMO's are supposed to be about freedom, and making choices, the more choices and decisions you can make different from others, the more successfull your gaming experience is going to be over all.
That doesn't mean every game needs PvP, but it adds to the realism of the world, and if well devised provides its own content, tons of it.
For me, PvP has to be in a MMO. Once you hit endgame PvP becomes one of the most important factors of the game. I expect AoC, WAR and Spellborn to have compelling PvP since they are the MMOs that were given the time and budget to be created.
Crap PvP like EQ2 PvP with its lame level locking or some of the stupid FFA PvP is a detriment to a game.
But good PvP like Eve's more real FFA or DAoC RvR is a very big plus. What I would call a top teir feature.
Some games such as DAoC and AC and EQ had full on FFA PvP servers. These are stupid. No collection of humans has ever operated under the complete anarchy of a bajillion murders running around perpetually offing each other. They may have had an edge but the are incredibly dumb.
Eve's FFA style makes more sense. There is the Wild West of 0.0 and then there are policed places.
PvP is fun. Its exhilerating because of the social aspect of going against a real person. And its interesting because you don't know what they will do and are intelligent, they may or may not be smart of course.
However many PvP implementation of the past have been stupid and like any other feature that is designed poorly it detracts from the game as a whole even if it has its good points. On the other hand for the ones that did a good job it has been good for the games.
As a sidenote this issue is one that generally shows you should never listen to the "hardcore" crowd. They generally gloss over the bad in favor of whatever they are hardcore about. This is one of the reason bad FFA implementations stick around. Anyone with half a brain can tell that the obvious chaos of pure FFA is essentially detremental, especially in games with no control over things.
You see people like this agitate for a FFA in games like EQ2 and they say players will take care of everything. No they won't, they don't have the means to do so. In Eve you can kick someone out of a system back to their clone and that means possibly qutie a long trip back. You cannot control a zone in EQ2, you can harrass people, you can never control it if they are determined to do something. You simply do not have the mechanical means due to game design.
Yet you still get the hardcores saying it will all work out because all they want is the chaos of a ballroom brawl. They want it so bad that they will agitate for a fait accompli bad design and implemention and just say that the good stuff makes up for it.
No it doesn't. It never does. Most people are driven away by obviously stupid or bad stuff.
Hardcores want chaos because they know PVE is totally boring and mindless. The only thing that makes it exciting is the possibility of getting killed by a player. PVE is repetitious and static. PVP is dynamic and exciting
was playing tabula Rasa the other nigth and fell asleep (and I think my bro did too). Now I cant get him to log back on cause Assassin's creed released and next Mass Effect will be out. Now that will be a real RPG. I want good PVE I play single player RPGs or play those coop with a friend
I could get into faction vs faction or realm vs realm or even a good FFA set up, if some one can actually pull it off. However, there still needs to be some amount of depth to the system. PvP instances or PvP just for the sake of PvP can be fun for a while, but it gets old in the long run.
Really, we need a DAOC 2 or a Darkfall that can actually pull it off. Nothing in this next crop looks very good when it comes to a long term PvP game.
Comments
I voted that PvP is an important feature in a MMO as PvE alone can get boring and repetative after a whle. However PvP isant just a palyer fighting another in force of arms, For example in EvE PvP can be competing traders competing on the markets whose PvP tactics could include selling bulk items first to get max profit and to lower his oponents profits or if he is devious enough and he can afford it it can involve hiriing a pirate to blow up his shipments so he cant sell entirely.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
I'm not real big on quests. I like grinding, and Pvp. It's nice to switch between those activities for some variety. I"m also not real big on crafting, but don't mind if there is crafting in the game, since some people like that.
MMORPG Maker
I got to have some pvp; and more particularly, WORLD-PVP. If all I'm doing is fighting programs, or little collections of textured polygons that appear and stand in this one little spot forever, (mobs), well, I might last 3 minutes with a game like that... but no more.
I couldn't agree more. I started MMORPGs entirely for the PvE, and still really enjoy it. But, taking WoW for example, once I exhausted all of the PvE content (that didn't require a "second-job-like" raiding schedule) I seriously got into PvP. Now I see it as essential, and I plan to play on PvP servers in the future for AoC and other MMOs I get into. Frankly, no matter how good an AI script is, humans are much smarter, less predictable, and more challenging to kill. And especially for endgame, I need to be challenged or I'm just bored. For a new raid boss, you can just go on the boards and read up on the tactics, the recreate them - you know exactly how the boss will act and when. For PvP encounters, you can generally study tactics against certain classes, but you never know for sure what the other guy(s) will do this time, which for me is really fun.
Somewhere between important and extremely important for me.
I won't completly rule out a game just because it doesn't have PvP (or has minimal PvP) but it certainly will sway me one way or the other.
For me an mmo needs to have a pvp system. FFAPVP I dont like but the game has to have some pvp areas.
To the OP's comment; yes FPSers are more pvp based but its a completely different kind of battle. MMOs are more about thinking things through, being prepared, and tactical. FPSers are more twitch based with less tactics needed. I know they started to merge twich combat and mmos but I think its a fad and it wont work or last long.
Here's a link to Nick Yee's Daedalus project page on player server preference type. It compares PvE and PvP preferences of players, and also takes a stab at discovering people's interest in roleplaying.
For those uninterested in following the link, the PvE to PvP preference is about 2:1. Women are rather strongly averse to PvP. Roleplaying preferences seems to lean in the direction of "I might try it, but it's nothing I'm concerned about."
Both this post and Nick's research involve self-selecting voters, so both will be skewed a bit. I believe Nick canvassed active players, while this forum is populated by more enthusiastic players in general. It only makes sense that we'd have a higher density of PvP players here. It matches my experiences in other online forums.
My vote was strongly negative because we're talking about MMOs. In FPS games, I don't have any accomplishments hanging in the balance, so I'm just looking for a good fight.
I highly recommend reading Nick Yee's Daedalus project site. If you want to get your head on straight about the demographics and motivations of MMO players, Nick has provided a wealth of working material.
Looks like PvE'ers are gonna lose. It's been 7 years. They've had a good run.
Viva la PvP!
Now if we could just get more people from mainstream society to try WoW so they could become dissapointed with it in 2 years and demand the personal confrontation they see on their TV and in their xbox live/PSN video games...
Lol. PvE'ers ground through so many games and gave away so much of their money in the process they've litereally paid for MMORPG's success, it's popularity, and thus- it's secession to mainstream society and PvP.
Hahaha. In your face.
PvP games all the way..
But PvP-oriented... no thanks... I'd rather play an FPS for that
Definitely helps to have a compelling PvP system :-) Battlegrounds are no fun for me... I like unstructured battles, ala SWG
MMOs played (In order of how much I've liked them): Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Vanguard, City of Villains / Heroes, Guild Wars, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Tabula Rasa, Anarchy Online, Ryzom, Final Fantasy XI, Matrix Online, RF Online, Rappelz, Hero Online, Roma Victor
I used to despise PvP. I always thought it was broken, boring, and un organized.
Then I saw how WAR is coming, and realized how that's only WoW's PvP, and all other games that just have PvP added on.
Now, I'm looking forward to WAR and I realize how Great PvP looks like it can be when done right.
--------------------------------
-Been there, done that: Xsyon, WoW, EVE, Maplestory, City of Heroes, Guild Wars, Warhammer Online, FF11, Rift
-Currently playing: Not MMOs
-Wants to check out: SWTOR, Dark Millennium
It all depends on the game's universe and how PvP is implemented.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
100% agree, as I heard at DAOC you shoud have such a system - 3 different realms that could attack each other at the borders only (so you could stay away if you want). Never have played DAOC but have to say as a casual PvE player that PvP system might be even worth a look for me.
I think it should have it.. But it doesn't matter for me, I like PVE better. Though when I come back to EQ2 I will join a PVP server..
Most of all MMOs need PVP now or have mix.. WIth PVE and PVP.
Thanks Impyriel for the sig^^
Dont care much for PvP in MMO's, but what we PvE people often forget is that even for us it serves purpose.
It is great to get some hard figures on your setup, resists, damage, avoids, specials and so on and so forth.
For this purpose alone I want at least arena type PvP.
Then there are totally PvP oriented games, like EVE, that I still play and I do not see how that game could even work without PvP.
The entire economy is built around us 0.0 people needing new ships constantly, without PvP that game would just die.
Other then that, PvP in MMO's is for people that can not handle FPS combat and make up for it with extreme amounts of time investment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am really surprised with the turn the poll results have taken. I anticipated less people would care for PvP in MMORPGs, and I think that is one feature that mainstream gamers and I differ on.
My concern about PvP is that it replaces PvE as the focus for developers. I think why people play MMORPGS --(1) world immersion; (2) adventure; (3) sophisticated character customization; (4) deep Questing as opposed to "tasking-- are elements lacking in MMORPGs while PvP is becoming more prominent and important to developers.
I suppose the ultimate question is, comparatively, do you prefer PvP to PvE? I suspect most peopel will want (1) world immersion; (2) adventure; (3) sophisticated character customization; (4) deep Questing as opposed to "tasking over PvP.
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
This is the reason why mmorpgs are so primitive right now. There should not be a big difference between PVE and PVP. Competition can be between Guilds to overcome obstacles faster like who kills the epic boss. You can have peaceful competition like we had in City of Heroes in regards to costume contests. You could have contests like who has the best looking house on the block.
Player vs Player does not mean I get to kill you per se (survival of the fittest). You can put this type of gameplay out there in open pvp zones for those who want that too. But when the warrior tires of fighting for survival, he can relax in a pub tossing darts with his fellow man
You can have PvP on a 100% PVE server. Right now mmos are so combat focused we've lost this. I've played games in other genres where it was friendly competition like solving puzzles, who can get through the maze the fasteest, and such
another example- players in WoW compete for virtual items via the Auction House. A schewd crafter might try to take the market by buying up the items and raise the prices significantly if there is a shortage of a certain type of resource
oh btw- even though the poll is in favor of PVP it is only a tiny sample of what MMORPG population says. It varies on the community. If you go to Darkfall community you might get 100% must have PVP. If you conduct a survey inside of World Of Warcraft, you might still get PVP is a nice option
its really common sense. The more options you give a player the more viable your MMO is. when I joined EVE I planned on being a pirate but after a few weeks I realized I wanted to pursue crafting. goals change after players get exposed to the game.
Peoples on this board are not representative of the mainstream gamers. This is a PvP-focused forum. EvEngelists are everywhere here, and they are usually cool and nice.
A PvE player is far less likely to stroll boards then a PvP player, he is less competitive and less aggresive, thereby he usually focus less on getting every edges. Casuals players are also less likely to go on any forum.
Any poll taken here is seriously leaning toward EvE and DAoC. These are good games, but they are by no means addressed at the majority, and the EA staff working on WAR is kinda blind to that fact.
Humans often read what they want to read. If you want everyone to enjoy fishing and do a survey about fishing at National Geographic office, those datas won't be representative of the majority of society, they will only represent what peoples who go at the National Geographic office enjoys themselves.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
However, based on my experience here, my sense was that the majority of people have described themselves as "casual" players.
I also agree about WAR. I just posted about WAR in the news section how I hope there is a 1) sandbox feel and 2) not a focus on raiding. One of my friends is in a BETA guild, and you can count on raiding.
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
I would prefer a great PvE game, but I just don't see it happening.
Whats the point of playing in a online world if your not allowed to fight the other people like you.
I cant believe there is anyone who says PvP has no place in MMO's, because you are delusional and missing the point. If you think its place is not in MMO's than I would recommend finding a game with some nice co-op.
MMO's are supposed to be about freedom, and making choices, the more choices and decisions you can make different from others, the more successfull your gaming experience is going to be over all.
That doesn't mean every game needs PvP, but it adds to the realism of the world, and if well devised provides its own content, tons of it.
For me, PvP has to be in a MMO. Once you hit endgame PvP becomes one of the most important factors of the game. I expect AoC, WAR and Spellborn to have compelling PvP since they are the MMOs that were given the time and budget to be created.
Depends.
Crap PvP like EQ2 PvP with its lame level locking or some of the stupid FFA PvP is a detriment to a game.
But good PvP like Eve's more real FFA or DAoC RvR is a very big plus. What I would call a top teir feature.
Some games such as DAoC and AC and EQ had full on FFA PvP servers. These are stupid. No collection of humans has ever operated under the complete anarchy of a bajillion murders running around perpetually offing each other. They may have had an edge but the are incredibly dumb.
Eve's FFA style makes more sense. There is the Wild West of 0.0 and then there are policed places.
PvP is fun. Its exhilerating because of the social aspect of going against a real person. And its interesting because you don't know what they will do and are intelligent, they may or may not be smart of course.
However many PvP implementation of the past have been stupid and like any other feature that is designed poorly it detracts from the game as a whole even if it has its good points. On the other hand for the ones that did a good job it has been good for the games.
As a sidenote this issue is one that generally shows you should never listen to the "hardcore" crowd. They generally gloss over the bad in favor of whatever they are hardcore about. This is one of the reason bad FFA implementations stick around. Anyone with half a brain can tell that the obvious chaos of pure FFA is essentially detremental, especially in games with no control over things.
You see people like this agitate for a FFA in games like EQ2 and they say players will take care of everything. No they won't, they don't have the means to do so. In Eve you can kick someone out of a system back to their clone and that means possibly qutie a long trip back. You cannot control a zone in EQ2, you can harrass people, you can never control it if they are determined to do something. You simply do not have the mechanical means due to game design.
Yet you still get the hardcores saying it will all work out because all they want is the chaos of a ballroom brawl. They want it so bad that they will agitate for a fait accompli bad design and implemention and just say that the good stuff makes up for it.
No it doesn't. It never does. Most people are driven away by obviously stupid or bad stuff.
Hardcores want chaos because they know PVE is totally boring and mindless. The only thing that makes it exciting is the possibility of getting killed by a player. PVE is repetitious and static. PVP is dynamic and exciting
was playing tabula Rasa the other nigth and fell asleep (and I think my bro did too). Now I cant get him to log back on cause Assassin's creed released and next Mass Effect will be out. Now that will be a real RPG. I want good PVE I play single player RPGs or play those coop with a friend
I could get into faction vs faction or realm vs realm or even a good FFA set up, if some one can actually pull it off. However, there still needs to be some amount of depth to the system. PvP instances or PvP just for the sake of PvP can be fun for a while, but it gets old in the long run.
Really, we need a DAOC 2 or a Darkfall that can actually pull it off. Nothing in this next crop looks very good when it comes to a long term PvP game.