Solarus, Im glad you realize that, as for myself I will keep enjoying Vanguard, Lotro is a good game too, darkfall is almost a joke after all these years and those RYL engine screenshots, ( you dont belive that, right? If you really belive, dont blame others for your mmo delusions ) C. of Spellborn have some nice ideas.
Vanguard players are different than Vanguard fans, I really enjoy the game for what it is, this is a bit different than be a fan, the image that only fans have fun in Vanguard is not real, People enjoy the game for its atmosphere, features, gameplay etc, not for blind following... and all the "vision" thing, you fell in love for it , but only tried the game now? This only sounded as cheap drama...
Anyway, I will be glad to express here my experiences in APW
My dream was shattered during Beta, when I first logged in , and got sent to kill 5 undead farmers. Some how I felt this was not the game that was being discussed during the development cycle. It almost seemed like a cheap sell to SOE , just to get Sigil out of having to deal with SOE. I figuured i give it a shot with since the rumors of stable game play, I had some fun, I posted screen shots, but at the end, my integrity just won't let me play something that was labeled one thing and is actual turning into something not labeled on the packaging. Just so you know, I'm bi-polar, so my thinking and mind set is pretty different than a lot of folks, I'm very hardcore in what i believe from music , games, the word "artist" and movies. That is just the way it is. So please forgive me when I fail to see your point of view or perspective.
You see, if you already had this impression of shattered dreams in beta, and have this opinion about SOE, I dont get why try the game again, becouse anything that could happens with the game would remind you this thing you have with SOE and you would never see the good aspects of Vanguard.
Bi-polar or not, you should keep in mind that focus your dreams in a game would not be good for you, and I hope when you say you are hardcore about artists , you are telling about real artists in erudite and expressive art, and not popular culture, becouse you will be taking things that are at least 60% product too serious, and to be honest, all you said about vanguard didnt show a person with a so unique and hardcore point of view, it expressed only the old mmo cliches we all know.
But in the end, you should get the game you like , lotro and keep playing it, as I said before, I really enjoy Vanguard, but as you said, this is not what you want.
LOL, its remarkable that ppl really cancel their subscription to a game they seem to like because it has one or two instances. Thats befitting religious dogmas, but in a trivial spare time thing like gamings is just misplaced drama-queen attitude.
Maybe it was just the last straw for some people? Things like this tend to build up.
This whole game is full of promises it has not delivered on and most people have been riding on faith that potential will be delivered on and some people have been seeing those promises being rescinded.
No that's WoW. I could name you at least 10 features that were promised for WoW and still not implemented. People forgot about them obviously. Yeh there were big words from Brad about Vanguard as well. It's part of marketing strategy of EVERY game out there. You don't want to know what promised my "boss" for Elveon RPG that will soon be released, but half of them won't be in there. Just like with almost every game.
What is happening in VG is not an ordinery instancing. It's only for the raid dungeon and it's understandable. How could it handle the amount of different raid groups on one place. It must have been solved somehow and this is the only way.
Really thillian? WoW is the game that didn't deliver on what was promised? What exactly was printed on the box that didn't make it in the game? Did it promise to be "the next generation of MMOs" or promise some revolutionary new monster AI? I anxiously await your list of unrealized promises.
No one made such grand promised as Brad did and failed to live up to them. Just go look at Brads babbling on the Fire of Heaven forums.
Really thillian? WoW is the game that didn't deliver on what was promised? What exactly was printed on the box that didn't make it in the game? Did it promise to be "the next generation of MMOs" or promise some revolutionary new monster AI? I anxiously await your list of unrealized promises. No one made such grand promised as Brad did and failed to live up to them. Just go look at Brads babbling on the Fire of Heaven forums.
What is on the VG box that is not in the game? It has nothing to do what's on the box but what was promised before release. I remember WoW was promising hero classes right at the start. Open war PVP combat with sieges, Guild halls and housing was promised as well if you remember. Revolutionary class customization and so on.
In VG yeh next generation was promised. But what is next generation and what is not is pretty subjective don't you think? Generation of what? Graphics? That certainly is next generation. Diplomacy? That's next generation as well. Crafting? That is also next generation.Those things were not done in any previous game and those things are pretty original. There is no other game I could play to have diplomacy, heavy crafting and beatiful demanding graphics. But WoW can be substitude with for example Everquest2, because they have the same content or with dead Asheron's Call 2. Or even with Lord of the Rings online.
In case you missed the thread we are posting in, people are upset about instances which Sigil claimed there would be none. Just to be nitpicky, I think the box talks about flying mounts?
<snip>
<snip>
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes will be the premier third generation massively multiplayer RPG. A vast, seamless, immersive virtual world filled with elements of familiar High Fantasy, including traditional themes and more, all depicted using cutting-edge graphics technology. Sigil’s expertise and experience in the field will bring groundbreaking static and dynamic content to the genre. Vanguard will build upon the successes and strengths of earlier MMOGs to improve popular game mechanics and features, but also address these pioneering games’ mistakes and deficiencies. Vanguard will focus heavily on interdependence, challenge, and reward, while simultaneously addressing tedious and annoying issues, including camping, excessive downtime and more.
Vanguard, like our previous efforts, will lead the ever-growing market of fantasy subscription based games. [Sigil]
Vanguard overall is just like most other games on the market. The crafting isn't revolutionary and plays very similar to EQ2 and other games, the same with the graphics. They are nice though, but I wouldn't call the next gen without anti alias, even then I think they are that far off EVE/SWG/EQ2/LOTRO in nature. Diplomacy is nice and a very good step in the right direction. Diplomacy is about the only thing I saw that was next generation about the game.
What happened to shaping kingdoms? Dynamic content? Advanced encounter system? It barely delivers on the seamless aspect with all the trouble it has with chunking.
I would agree that it is the next gerenation of EQ, but it doesn't blow the doors off what other MMOs already offered. It doesn't even have a raid area yet.
I don't mean to sound like Vanguard is some awful game by any means. I think it has immense potential and good designs. It is just very unfinished and doesn't come close to living up to they mega-hype. If anything I would call it the next generation of everquest as is should have been.
"This IS like everquest 2 where youd have to many players in one zone, and a 2nd copy would be opened." -------------------------- I hate to burst you guys' bubble, but what you're describing here IS instancing. I don't care if it's 1 copy per group or raid, 1 copy per 5 groups, 90 players per copy, or anything similar. If there are more than ONE, then each of them is an "instance" of the same area. If you're at all familiar with programming, and more specifically, object-oriented programming, then you understand the concept of an object being an "instance" of a class, and that you can have multiple instances, or copies, of a class. These areas/zones/chunks in these games are nothing more than very complex objects that are instantiations, or copies, of the classes that define them. In a "seamless" game, there is only 1 copy of each. In games like EQ2 and WoW, there are areas that are identical and simultaneously co-exist, whether they be single dungeons (WoW) or entire areas (EQ2). Either way, the bottom line is that they are duplicate instances/copies of the same areas, regardless of the rules governing how and when a copy is made. No matter which way you try to justify it or say it's not technically instancing, you're wrong - the use of multiple copies of the same area = instancing. If Vanguard is going to have multiple copies of any of it's areas, then it is employing the use of instancing. Period.
Although I agree with your thought process, I disagree (from a purely technical perspective) with your comparison.
In OO programming an object is always an instance of a class, not just when there is more than one copy.
So that would mean that, by your logic, every MMO ever made is instanced. That's obviously not true based on the accepted definition of the term "instanced" as it applies to MMOs.
Seems to me like people are really blowing the term 'instance' out of context.
A couple of posters have tried to describe what the technical definition of an instance is, which is fine. By those definitions it is an instance.
Then there is the definition of what 'instancing' means to the mmo community, which is so liberally used in WoW or Guild Wars.
Finally we get to how Vanguard is implementing it. Some folks may think that using the terms 'overflow' or 'shard' is misleading, but it seems to me to be a much more accurate description of what they are trying to do. If they used the term instance, there would much more confusion from the player base.
Instead we get people who want to make a big deal about something by throwing terms around with an "I told you so" or "ha, ha VG suxors' attitude just to try and cause trouble. Lame.
Seems to me like people are really blowing the term 'instance' out of context. A couple of posters have tried to describe what the technical definition of an instance is, which is fine. By those definitions it is an instance. Then there is the definition of what 'instancing' means to the mmo community, which is so liberally used in WoW or Guild Wars. Finally we get to how Vanguard is implementing it. Some folks may think that using the terms 'overflow' or 'shard' is misleading, but it seems to me to be a much more accurate description of what they are trying to do. If they used the term instance, there would much more confusion from the player base. Instead we get people who want to make a big deal about something by throwing terms around with an "I told you so" or "ha, ha VG suxors' attitude just to try and cause trouble. Lame.
That's odd. You believe using the term "instancing" could be confusing to the MMO community to describe what they're doing to APW? And funny you should mention Guild Wars, since the thirty Lion's Arch zones it spawns due to "overflow" sounds exactly like the type of "instancing" SOE is planning to implement. Or even how City of Heroes will eventually create another Atlas Park if too many costume contents are going on at once.
"Instancing" describes it best to me. "Shard" though? Only reminds me of UO servers; no need to invent new terminology as far as the "MMO community" goes when appropriate terms already exist. Any negative connotations carried with the word "instancing" is Sigil's fault for pitching seamlessness as if it was actually something better than instancing.
Though, Vanguard does have a streak I guess of trying to differentiate similar features between two MMOs largely based on the terminology alone; like "chunks" and "zones, or "Diplomacy" and "questing in town".
Look, we were never going to even try to fix the performance issues, the leveling curve that ran you out of useful content in a month (and we keep making worse...just to screw wit ya), add new content, or even take a lil time and increase max level of your toons and existing mobs.
We have produced an endgame called APW - red my lips ENDGAME! Fixing root causes would have slowed the progress to get the endgame done. It;s much easier for us to bend the truth of our previous statements about instancing, fixes, and not listening to our customers again like we did with NGE, so that we can get this endgame done. ...and don;t ask your silly questions about what now we are going to work on next. I;ll tell you what, the BeginGame - starter island, man I love screwing wit you guys.
Just make sure you keep paying the monthly fees and we;ll keep making this game a more like every other one out there - except with more herky jerky chrashy when you cross seams or as we like to say chunk lines (we did not say chunkless, we said seamless), and carpnal tunnel producing crafting, and hey for a few more bucks let me tell ya about all the good stuff in vgplayers...........
This game had some great potential......sigh.......
For me it is also has to do with principles of what is advertise and what you actually get. I truly thought that SOE would keep intact the integrity of the game, that is why I bought it, but now with this one change , I can see they will not. They will continue to hot glue EQ2 concepts to VG until frankly , no one will be able to tell the 2 games apart. The true tragedy is the people who continuously support shady companies like SOE who think they can do what ever they want in a subscription based market.
1. SOE can do whatever they want to Vanguard, or any other game that they own. Because THEY own Vanguard not us. I say again, it even says this on every box.
2. The other option is leaving it seamless and as soon as they open the raid area it is going to crash because there will be too many people. This is a better option for you?
SOE didnt release this game with no end game content. They didnt let the player base reach 50 without building end game content, but they have to fix it.
This is instancing, that is true. And it will make the world no longer seamless, only about 99% seamless. But this is not a WoW instance where your group will be alone in the dungeon, they say that it now can take 90 people and they want to double that amount. This amount will allow for numerous groups fighting in the same dungeon. That means fighting for spawns, fighting to get to the boss, kill stealing, TRAINS and all the other lovely stuff we remember from dungeons of old. If you are in a dungeon with 150 other people you will not feel alone im sure, will you really notice that there isnt 250 people in the dungeon.
And for those of you that say how SOE ruins everything it really doesnt matter what SOE does, you are going to bitch anyway. If they posted that they were going to add Brownies as a playable race you would all bitch. Yes, they ruined your SWG game. That does suck but get over it. They changed EQ into something im not too fond of anymore but i still love them, because they made EQ in the first place. At least i got to play a GREAT game for awhile, why cant SWG people look at it that way.
How elequent. How droll. I call you out as a liar, I dont think you happened upon here on accident, then happened across this exact thread. I submit that you are a vanguard troll with a banned account and a propensity for lying. That being said, youd make a great politician. You might even swindle your way across some votes. Provided people arent going to look beyond the words at the actual person.
I reccomend a nice tinfoil hat to block out the C.I.A.'s mind reading devices.
That is the pure deviltry of it all. The tinfoil hats ARE the mind reading devices!!!!
Anyway a copy is copy. But how you use that copy is extremely important. An overflow copy like EQ2 has is considerably different, in its consequences, than a standalone copy such as a WoW dungeon.
As to "seemlessness" this is quite literally in the eye of the beholder. And by that I don't mean "It is you r opinion". I mean literally it has nothing to do with how resources or copies are made it is purely a function of how the Devs present the world. If they are especially sly they could slide you into a solo stand alone instance and you would have no way of knowing whether you were or were not in there simply by not giving you the tools to know such a thing. In fact most computer game operate off some amount of sleight of hand/mind to present what they are going for.
This information concerning instances and such is presented to you for usability. They could easily tell you absolutely nothing. Just shut you in a box with no communication. If EQ2 never showed you the list of available instances you would never know you were even in an overflow except by tells or by entering the zone in at the time and place as some one else. So if they dropped into a random spot in Antonica and disabled all tells how would anyone even know if an overflow of Antonica even existed? They would not. And if instead of a teleport bell with a loading screen they placed you into a catapult and shot you off into the clounds and you flew along and parachuted into antonica slowly falling to the ground at some random location and never saw a loading screen, the world still appear seemless even though it was not. Because even though you were technically zoned into an overflow copy you appeared to be traveling through the world the whole time and have no means to verify if there is an overflow copy in existence.
It seems like some people would be better off if they never opened pandora's box of actually knowing the state of the virtual world.
I have to hand it to you solareus, you do have a good point. I mean granted, who knows what would happen to VG if it went with another company, but you do have a point about their tactics. They tend not to listen to their player base. I think if they did, SWG would still be a thriving game. I do know EQ2 isn't too bad, at least that is what I hear. I only ever tried the trial part of it, and for some reason it just didn't captavate me much. Sadly though, the gaming world is a business, as much as we hate to think it is, and if one tactic doesn't work, which SOE must of thought for VG, they would try one they think does work, which seems to be doing ok with EQ2. I wish they would have given it a chance to work. Who knows, maybe it could of.
For me it is also has to do with principles of what is advertise and what you actually get. I truly thought that SOE would keep intact the integrity of the game, that is why I bought it, but now with this one change , I can see they will not. They will continue to hot glue EQ2 concepts to VG until frankly , no one will be able to tell the 2 games apart. The true tragedy is the people who continuously support shady companies like SOE who think they can do what ever they want in a subscription based market.
1. SOE can do whatever they want to Vanguard, or any other game that they own. Because THEY own Vanguard not us. I say again, it even says this on every box.
2. The other option is leaving it seamless and as soon as they open the raid area it is going to crash because there will be too many people. This is a better option for you?
SOE didnt release this game with no end game content. They didnt let the player base reach 50 without building end game content, but they have to fix it.
This is instancing, that is true. And it will make the world no longer seamless, only about 99% seamless. But this is not a WoW instance where your group will be alone in the dungeon, they say that it now can take 90 people and they want to double that amount. This amount will allow for numerous groups fighting in the same dungeon. That means fighting for spawns, fighting to get to the boss, kill stealing, TRAINS and all the other lovely stuff we remember from dungeons of old. If you are in a dungeon with 150 other people you will not feel alone im sure, will you really notice that there isnt 250 people in the dungeon.
And for those of you that say how SOE ruins everything it really doesnt matter what SOE does, you are going to bitch anyway. If they posted that they were going to add Brownies as a playable race you would all bitch. Yes, they ruined your SWG game. That does suck but get over it. They changed EQ into something im not too fond of anymore but i still love them, because they made EQ in the first place. At least i got to play a GREAT game for awhile, why cant SWG people look at it that way.
Seems to me like people are really blowing the term 'instance' out of context. A couple of posters have tried to describe what the technical definition of an instance is, which is fine. By those definitions it is an instance. Then there is the definition of what 'instancing' means to the mmo community, which is so liberally used in WoW or Guild Wars. Finally we get to how Vanguard is implementing it. Some folks may think that using the terms 'overflow' or 'shard' is misleading, but it seems to me to be a much more accurate description of what they are trying to do. If they used the term instance, there would much more confusion from the player base. Instead we get people who want to make a big deal about something by throwing terms around with an "I told you so" or "ha, ha VG suxors' attitude just to try and cause trouble. Lame.
That's odd. You believe using the term "instancing" could be confusing to the MMO community to describe what they're doing to APW? And funny you should mention Guild Wars, since the thirty Lion's Arch zones it spawns due to "overflow" sounds exactly like the type of "instancing" SOE is planning to implement. Or even how City of Heroes will eventually create another Atlas Park if too many costume contents are going on at once.
"Instancing" describes it best to me. "Shard" though? Only reminds me of UO servers; no need to invent new terminology as far as the "MMO community" goes when appropriate terms already exist. Any negative connotations carried with the word "instancing" is Sigil's fault for pitching seamlessness as if it was actually something better than instancing.
Though, Vanguard does have a streak I guess of trying to differentiate similar features between two MMOs largely based on the terminology alone; like "chunks" and "zones, or "Diplomacy" and "questing in town".
Sepher, you are correct about GW in the Lion's Gate zones and I stand corrected. I was thinking about the adventure areas specifically and failed to say so. I was just bringing up two of the most popular games that use instancing in the way I believe most average players think of it when they hear the word.
You make some other good points concerning terminology and again I digress. I certainly agree that Vanguard does it's share of spinning, but I still think that they gave an accurate description of what they are intending to do and did it in the least confusing manner. Obviously opinions vary as does an individuals experience/history with mmo games.
You almost had a 100% perfect rebuttal, but I have to disagree with the Diplomacy and Questing in Town example. Diplomacy in the form presented by Vanguard is a unique game feature. To describe it simply as 'questing in town' certainly does it an injustice and isn't at all as accurate an analogy as your others were.
Comments
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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Solarus, Im glad you realize that, as for myself I will keep enjoying Vanguard, Lotro is a good game too, darkfall is almost a joke after all these years and those RYL engine screenshots, ( you dont belive that, right? If you really belive, dont blame others for your mmo delusions ) C. of Spellborn have some nice ideas.
Vanguard players are different than Vanguard fans, I really enjoy the game for what it is, this is a bit different than be a fan, the image that only fans have fun in Vanguard is not real, People enjoy the game for its atmosphere, features, gameplay etc, not for blind following... and all the "vision" thing, you fell in love for it , but only tried the game now? This only sounded as cheap drama...
Anyway, I will be glad to express here my experiences in APW
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
You see, if you already had this impression of shattered dreams in beta, and have this opinion about SOE, I dont get why try the game again, becouse anything that could happens with the game would remind you this thing you have with SOE and you would never see the good aspects of Vanguard.
Bi-polar or not, you should keep in mind that focus your dreams in a game would not be good for you, and I hope when you say you are hardcore about artists , you are telling about real artists in erudite and expressive art, and not popular culture, becouse you will be taking things that are at least 60% product too serious, and to be honest, all you said about vanguard didnt show a person with a so unique and hardcore point of view, it expressed only the old mmo cliches we all know.
But in the end, you should get the game you like , lotro and keep playing it, as I said before, I really enjoy Vanguard, but as you said, this is not what you want.
Maybe it was just the last straw for some people? Things like this tend to build up.
This whole game is full of promises it has not delivered on and most people have been riding on faith that potential will be delivered on and some people have been seeing those promises being rescinded.
No that's WoW. I could name you at least 10 features that were promised for WoW and still not implemented. People forgot about them obviously. Yeh there were big words from Brad about Vanguard as well. It's part of marketing strategy of EVERY game out there. You don't want to know what promised my "boss" for Elveon RPG that will soon be released, but half of them won't be in there. Just like with almost every game.
What is happening in VG is not an ordinery instancing. It's only for the raid dungeon and it's understandable. How could it handle the amount of different raid groups on one place. It must have been solved somehow and this is the only way.
REALITY CHECK
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Really thillian? WoW is the game that didn't deliver on what was promised? What exactly was printed on the box that didn't make it in the game? Did it promise to be "the next generation of MMOs" or promise some revolutionary new monster AI? I anxiously await your list of unrealized promises.
No one made such grand promised as Brad did and failed to live up to them. Just go look at Brads babbling on the Fire of Heaven forums.
In VG yeh next generation was promised. But what is next generation and what is not is pretty subjective don't you think? Generation of what? Graphics? That certainly is next generation. Diplomacy? That's next generation as well. Crafting? That is also next generation. Those things were not done in any previous game and those things are pretty original. There is no other game I could play to have diplomacy, heavy crafting and beatiful demanding graphics. But WoW can be substitude with for example Everquest2, because they have the same content or with dead Asheron's Call 2. Or even with Lord of the Rings online.
REALITY CHECK
*a seamless and immersive world free of zoning and instances.
*unparalleled customization tools
*navigating treacherous tides and dangerous storms.
*variety of unique mounts, from horses and unicorns to ships and winged dragons.
Straight from the back of my box.
In case you missed the thread we are posting in, people are upset about instances which Sigil claimed there would be none. Just to be nitpicky, I think the box talks about flying mounts?
<snip>
<snip>
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes will be the premier third generation massively multiplayer RPG. A vast, seamless, immersive virtual world filled with elements of familiar High Fantasy, including traditional themes and more, all depicted using cutting-edge graphics technology. Sigil’s expertise and experience in the field will bring groundbreaking static and dynamic content to the genre. Vanguard will build upon the successes and strengths of earlier MMOGs to improve popular game mechanics and features, but also address these pioneering games’ mistakes and deficiencies. Vanguard will focus heavily on interdependence, challenge, and reward, while simultaneously addressing tedious and annoying issues, including camping, excessive downtime and more.
Vanguard, like our previous efforts, will lead the ever-growing market of fantasy subscription based games. [Sigil]
Vanguard overall is just like most other games on the market. The crafting isn't revolutionary and plays very similar to EQ2 and other games, the same with the graphics. They are nice though, but I wouldn't call the next gen without anti alias, even then I think they are that far off EVE/SWG/EQ2/LOTRO in nature. Diplomacy is nice and a very good step in the right direction. Diplomacy is about the only thing I saw that was next generation about the game.
What happened to shaping kingdoms? Dynamic content? Advanced encounter system? It barely delivers on the seamless aspect with all the trouble it has with chunking.
I would agree that it is the next gerenation of EQ, but it doesn't blow the doors off what other MMOs already offered. It doesn't even have a raid area yet.
I don't mean to sound like Vanguard is some awful game by any means. I think it has immense potential and good designs. It is just very unfinished and doesn't come close to living up to they mega-hype. If anything I would call it the next generation of everquest as is should have been.
Although I agree with your thought process, I disagree (from a purely technical perspective) with your comparison.
In OO programming an object is always an instance of a class, not just when there is more than one copy.
So that would mean that, by your logic, every MMO ever made is instanced. That's obviously not true based on the accepted definition of the term "instanced" as it applies to MMOs.
p.s. You can suck my join date, bitches.
Life of an MMORPG "addict"
For 7 years, proving that if you quote "fuck" you won't get banned.
Seems to me like people are really blowing the term 'instance' out of context.
A couple of posters have tried to describe what the technical definition of an instance is, which is fine. By those definitions it is an instance.
Then there is the definition of what 'instancing' means to the mmo community, which is so liberally used in WoW or Guild Wars.
Finally we get to how Vanguard is implementing it. Some folks may think that using the terms 'overflow' or 'shard' is misleading, but it seems to me to be a much more accurate description of what they are trying to do. If they used the term instance, there would much more confusion from the player base.
Instead we get people who want to make a big deal about something by throwing terms around with an "I told you so" or "ha, ha VG suxors' attitude just to try and cause trouble. Lame.
"Instancing" describes it best to me. "Shard" though? Only reminds me of UO servers; no need to invent new terminology as far as the "MMO community" goes when appropriate terms already exist. Any negative connotations carried with the word "instancing" is Sigil's fault for pitching seamlessness as if it was actually something better than instancing.
Though, Vanguard does have a streak I guess of trying to differentiate similar features between two MMOs largely based on the terminology alone; like "chunks" and "zones, or "Diplomacy" and "questing in town".
I read the post from SOE as:
Look, we were never going to even try to fix the performance issues, the leveling curve that ran you out of useful content in a month (and we keep making worse...just to screw wit ya), add new content, or even take a lil time and increase max level of your toons and existing mobs.
We have produced an endgame called APW - red my lips ENDGAME! Fixing root causes would have slowed the progress to get the endgame done. It;s much easier for us to bend the truth of our previous statements about instancing, fixes, and not listening to our customers again like we did with NGE, so that we can get this endgame done. ...and don;t ask your silly questions about what now we are going to work on next. I;ll tell you what, the BeginGame - starter island, man I love screwing wit you guys.
Just make sure you keep paying the monthly fees and we;ll keep making this game a more like every other one out there - except with more herky jerky chrashy when you cross seams or as we like to say chunk lines (we did not say chunkless, we said seamless), and carpnal tunnel producing crafting, and hey for a few more bucks let me tell ya about all the good stuff in vgplayers...........
This game had some great potential......sigh.......
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
2. The other option is leaving it seamless and as soon as they open the raid area it is going to crash because there will be too many people. This is a better option for you?
SOE didnt release this game with no end game content. They didnt let the player base reach 50 without building end game content, but they have to fix it.
This is instancing, that is true. And it will make the world no longer seamless, only about 99% seamless. But this is not a WoW instance where your group will be alone in the dungeon, they say that it now can take 90 people and they want to double that amount. This amount will allow for numerous groups fighting in the same dungeon. That means fighting for spawns, fighting to get to the boss, kill stealing, TRAINS and all the other lovely stuff we remember from dungeons of old. If you are in a dungeon with 150 other people you will not feel alone im sure, will you really notice that there isnt 250 people in the dungeon.
And for those of you that say how SOE ruins everything it really doesnt matter what SOE does, you are going to bitch anyway. If they posted that they were going to add Brownies as a playable race you would all bitch. Yes, they ruined your SWG game. That does suck but get over it. They changed EQ into something im not too fond of anymore but i still love them, because they made EQ in the first place. At least i got to play a GREAT game for awhile, why cant SWG people look at it that way.
I reccomend a nice tinfoil hat to block out the C.I.A.'s mind reading devices.
That is the pure deviltry of it all. The tinfoil hats ARE the mind reading devices!!!!Anyway a copy is copy. But how you use that copy is extremely important. An overflow copy like EQ2 has is considerably different, in its consequences, than a standalone copy such as a WoW dungeon.
As to "seemlessness" this is quite literally in the eye of the beholder. And by that I don't mean "It is you r opinion". I mean literally it has nothing to do with how resources or copies are made it is purely a function of how the Devs present the world. If they are especially sly they could slide you into a solo stand alone instance and you would have no way of knowing whether you were or were not in there simply by not giving you the tools to know such a thing. In fact most computer game operate off some amount of sleight of hand/mind to present what they are going for.
This information concerning instances and such is presented to you for usability. They could easily tell you absolutely nothing. Just shut you in a box with no communication. If EQ2 never showed you the list of available instances you would never know you were even in an overflow except by tells or by entering the zone in at the time and place as some one else. So if they dropped into a random spot in Antonica and disabled all tells how would anyone even know if an overflow of Antonica even existed? They would not. And if instead of a teleport bell with a loading screen they placed you into a catapult and shot you off into the clounds and you flew along and parachuted into antonica slowly falling to the ground at some random location and never saw a loading screen, the world still appear seemless even though it was not. Because even though you were technically zoned into an overflow copy you appeared to be traveling through the world the whole time and have no means to verify if there is an overflow copy in existence.
It seems like some people would be better off if they never opened pandora's box of actually knowing the state of the virtual world.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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I have to hand it to you solareus, you do have a good point. I mean granted, who knows what would happen to VG if it went with another company, but you do have a point about their tactics. They tend not to listen to their player base. I think if they did, SWG would still be a thriving game. I do know EQ2 isn't too bad, at least that is what I hear. I only ever tried the trial part of it, and for some reason it just didn't captavate me much. Sadly though, the gaming world is a business, as much as we hate to think it is, and if one tactic doesn't work, which SOE must of thought for VG, they would try one they think does work, which seems to be doing ok with EQ2. I wish they would have given it a chance to work. Who knows, maybe it could of.
2. The other option is leaving it seamless and as soon as they open the raid area it is going to crash because there will be too many people. This is a better option for you?
SOE didnt release this game with no end game content. They didnt let the player base reach 50 without building end game content, but they have to fix it.
This is instancing, that is true. And it will make the world no longer seamless, only about 99% seamless. But this is not a WoW instance where your group will be alone in the dungeon, they say that it now can take 90 people and they want to double that amount. This amount will allow for numerous groups fighting in the same dungeon. That means fighting for spawns, fighting to get to the boss, kill stealing, TRAINS and all the other lovely stuff we remember from dungeons of old. If you are in a dungeon with 150 other people you will not feel alone im sure, will you really notice that there isnt 250 people in the dungeon.
And for those of you that say how SOE ruins everything it really doesnt matter what SOE does, you are going to bitch anyway. If they posted that they were going to add Brownies as a playable race you would all bitch. Yes, they ruined your SWG game. That does suck but get over it. They changed EQ into something im not too fond of anymore but i still love them, because they made EQ in the first place. At least i got to play a GREAT game for awhile, why cant SWG people look at it that way.
http://www.gamespy.com/company/026/026857.html
Sounds eerily familiar, doesn't it?
That's odd. You believe using the term "instancing" could be confusing to the MMO community to describe what they're doing to APW? And funny you should mention Guild Wars, since the thirty Lion's Arch zones it spawns due to "overflow" sounds exactly like the type of "instancing" SOE is planning to implement. Or even how City of Heroes will eventually create another Atlas Park if too many costume contents are going on at once."Instancing" describes it best to me. "Shard" though? Only reminds me of UO servers; no need to invent new terminology as far as the "MMO community" goes when appropriate terms already exist. Any negative connotations carried with the word "instancing" is Sigil's fault for pitching seamlessness as if it was actually something better than instancing.
Though, Vanguard does have a streak I guess of trying to differentiate similar features between two MMOs largely based on the terminology alone; like "chunks" and "zones, or "Diplomacy" and "questing in town".
Sepher, you are correct about GW in the Lion's Gate zones and I stand corrected. I was thinking about the adventure areas specifically and failed to say so. I was just bringing up two of the most popular games that use instancing in the way I believe most average players think of it when they hear the word.
You make some other good points concerning terminology and again I digress. I certainly agree that Vanguard does it's share of spinning, but I still think that they gave an accurate description of what they are intending to do and did it in the least confusing manner. Obviously opinions vary as does an individuals experience/history with mmo games.
You almost had a 100% perfect rebuttal, but I have to disagree with the Diplomacy and Questing in Town example. Diplomacy in the form presented by Vanguard is a unique game feature. To describe it simply as 'questing in town' certainly does it an injustice and isn't at all as accurate an analogy as your others were.