Sure a separate perma-death server will fix all these, but do we really need spend money to create one such server?
For those who honestly likes perma-death, just enforce it themselves. Delete the character that died and start over. Why do they need to force everyone in their server to "enjoy" perma-death? Why would they need a developer to spend money to enforce something they can enforce themselves, IF THEY ARE HONEST.
Are these perma-death advocates selfish? They want to force people to play in their style?
Are these perma-death advocates hypocritic? They know they won't honestly kill their dead character unless the server did it for them?
Are these perma-death advocates fanatics? They want to convert other players into fans of their favourite playstyle?
I do not want to make a guess, but I wonder, perma-death is not even worth discussing here. If you want perma-death, kill your dead character. Why bother care if other players are perma-death or not? jealousy? nosy body? ...
Self imposed permadeath is going strong in Dungeons & Dragons Online with guilds on 3 servers (4th starting this Friday) as well as many guilds having their own little permadeath subgroups. Each guild has their own variations on the rules and its all based on the Honor System. It's not about bragging rights or racing to level cap but just about playing the game and putting that new to the game excitement back.
Boss fights are actually memorable
Teamwork is so much better because you don't just loose a few hundred XP when you die, you lose ALL of it
Most Permadeath players don't interact at all with characters outside their guild and use what they find, isolating them from the F*D up general economy so finding good gear is exciting again.
Most don't play the safest way possible and hide in the back, they take chances and go for the challenge of a really tough fight.
One permadeath group just reached the level cap this last week, a small group of expert players in a static group.
The Honor System is fine for Permadeath because somebody cheating is only going to ruin their own fun playing PD, there is no need for seperate servers. (not that I would be against having them it's just that we don't need them )
Why bother care if other players are perma-death or not? jealousy? nosy body? ...
Because if you play permadeath, and try to separate yourself from the 'economy' of the game you are in you would have to play with other like minded players. Teaming with a group of twinked out normal characters would negate the whole thing.
As often as this subject is brought up, it still manages to get to a few people who have never heard or thought of permadeath before and increases your chances of getting a little permadeath group going on the side
Shaiya online has some form of perma death but you have to unlock it, here is how it works.
Play a character in normal mode to level 50 to unlock hard.
Hard mode chars get more stats and skill points than normal mode chars each level up. Play one to level 50 and unlock ultimate mode.
Ultimate has the same leveling speed as hard and the same level cap of 60, the only bonus it gets is to its special skills, but if you die in PVE you have 3 mins to be ressurected or your characters is deleted permanently, so you have to start over again.
Thats the closest i have seen to a perma death game yet. You will have to work to access the feature though, well 1-50 in normal isnt difficult at all, the game isnt really that grindy thanks to quests. But i imagine that 1-50 in hard will be quite alot tougher. It does depend what class you pick though, a mage or warrior can level damn fast whilst a defender levels alot slower.
Here is a link, it is going into open beta very soon.
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
I agree with Grimm666. I guess I'll concluded with, to the adrenaline junkies. Perma death too will dull with time. It will become a matter of time to rebuild, it will be an ungoing battle for the next high. I say, get off it, it will 'kill you'.
I know its not a MMO, nor is it a server that does this, and I also realize EA and their subscription service sucks...but If i am correct there is a Hardcore mode like one in D2 that is implemented in Hellgate: London. I know its not what you look for, but hey its a permadeath solution, although not a server. Correct me if I am wrong on this, but I remember reading it.
While I'm not sure I would personally like to play on such a server, I can easily see that other people would like it and enjoy it.
But my best guess to why there are no such servers..too few people want it and the very possible problems that will arise when people die from disconnects.
I remember Hardcore mode in Diablo2 and most people simply accepted the lag monster and that it was possible to die that way, however unfair it was.
I simply fear that many people will not accept death due to network lag and server lag. Besides that, I have a feeling it is a minority of the playerbase that want a perma-death server and this is probably also why no such server exist. You need many thousands (10-15k) to create such a server and to make it live and in many mmo's (no counting wow here) that is a rather large amount.
But there is nothing preventing those that would like such a server to suggest it and feedback it to the game they like/play and hope for the best.
Permadeath servers = the least populated servers on the internets!
And for a VERY good reason.
I mean whats the point of raising a charecter nurturing it etc if it can die ast any time.
May as well paly a FPS they have permadeath of a sort.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
I think that permadeath is a good gameplay feature, but not for mmorpgs. MMORPGS are about developing your character which usually takes months to do, if suddenly you were to lose that character due to say lag, then i am pretty sure you are going to be very pissed off.
However, some games work very well with permadeath. Take for instance a game that might involve leveling a monstour or pet of somekind, if you dont treat it properally it dies and you have to start over with a new pet, you could also have permadeath in this type of game in the form of aging, which adds to the experience since you try to get the best pet possible before it dies, grows old etc.
You could also have it so that if you did die you can respawn as something else depending on the stats, how you died, what alignment you are etc of the previous character you had.
As long as permadeath is implemented in such a way that it does not equal a useless timesink it could be very good. Permadeath servers are not the answer btw, you have to design your game from the ground up to be able to incorparate permadeath in a fun way.
WoW for instance could not have this, the whole game is aimed at you dieing at some point whether it is to tell you a mob is higher level than you or to tell you that the strategy you are using for a boss is incorrect.
Permadeath can if badly implemented take away from pvp as well. It causes people to be worry about losing in pvp since it could ruin your character, this is why it would not work well in pvp games currently out.
Also most pvp games you are going to die constantly every day atleast 4 times a day no matter how good you are, permadeath would be pointless in a game like this because no one would get anywhere it would be no matter than die respawn die respawn you get in wow, except this time it would be die create new character die create new character which would be annoying.
Permadeath is like PvP you can't just tack it on to your game, you have to build your game from the ground up to incorparate it. Just like Full loot and Free for all pvp hell even PvE it would be a case of you cant just tack it on you have to build it into the game from the start or it will not work correctly.
Comments
You see the point of games like a typical no-lifer, games are meant for entertaining people.
If you step over the line of entertainment into the no-life online world, you start thinking that way.
Sure a separate perma-death server will fix all these, but do we really need spend money to create one such server?
For those who honestly likes perma-death, just enforce it themselves. Delete the character that died and start over. Why do they need to force everyone in their server to "enjoy" perma-death? Why would they need a developer to spend money to enforce something they can enforce themselves, IF THEY ARE HONEST.
Are these perma-death advocates selfish? They want to force people to play in their style?
Are these perma-death advocates hypocritic? They know they won't honestly kill their dead character unless the server did it for them?
Are these perma-death advocates fanatics? They want to convert other players into fans of their favourite playstyle?
I do not want to make a guess, but I wonder, perma-death is not even worth discussing here. If you want perma-death, kill your dead character. Why bother care if other players are perma-death or not? jealousy? nosy body? ...
Self imposed permadeath is going strong in Dungeons & Dragons Online with guilds on 3 servers (4th starting this Friday) as well as many guilds having their own little permadeath subgroups. Each guild has their own variations on the rules and its all based on the Honor System. It's not about bragging rights or racing to level cap but just about playing the game and putting that new to the game excitement back.
Boss fights are actually memorable
Teamwork is so much better because you don't just loose a few hundred XP when you die, you lose ALL of it
Most Permadeath players don't interact at all with characters outside their guild and use what they find, isolating them from the F*D up general economy so finding good gear is exciting again.
Most don't play the safest way possible and hide in the back, they take chances and go for the challenge of a really tough fight.
One permadeath group just reached the level cap this last week, a small group of expert players in a static group.
The Honor System is fine for Permadeath because somebody cheating is only going to ruin their own fun playing PD, there is no need for seperate servers. (not that I would be against having them it's just that we don't need them
)
-----------------------------------------------------------
www.thesublimeguild.net - The Sublime Permadeath Guild : Thelanis Server
http://www.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=99994&TabID=856487 - Extreme Explorers : Sarlona Server
www.mortalvoyage.com - Mortal Voyage Permadeath Guild : Argonesson Server
And A New guild starting up on the Khyber server this Friday, thats 4 of the 5 DDO servers
--
DDO Permadeath guilds
Because if you play permadeath, and try to separate yourself from the 'economy' of the game you are in you would have to play with other like minded players. Teaming with a group of twinked out normal characters would negate the whole thing.
As often as this subject is brought up, it still manages to get to a few people who have never heard or thought of permadeath before and increases your chances of getting a little permadeath group going on the side
--
DDO Permadeath guilds
Shaiya online has some form of perma death but you have to unlock it, here is how it works.
Play a character in normal mode to level 50 to unlock hard.
Hard mode chars get more stats and skill points than normal mode chars each level up. Play one to level 50 and unlock ultimate mode.
Ultimate has the same leveling speed as hard and the same level cap of 60, the only bonus it gets is to its special skills, but if you die in PVE you have 3 mins to be ressurected or your characters is deleted permanently, so you have to start over again.
Thats the closest i have seen to a perma death game yet. You will have to work to access the feature though, well 1-50 in normal isnt difficult at all, the game isnt really that grindy thanks to quests. But i imagine that 1-50 in hard will be quite alot tougher. It does depend what class you pick though, a mage or warrior can level damn fast whilst a defender levels alot slower.
Here is a link, it is going into open beta very soon.
http://shaiya.aeriagames.com/
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
I agree with Grimm666. I guess I'll concluded with, to the adrenaline junkies. Perma death too will dull with time. It will become a matter of time to rebuild, it will be an ungoing battle for the next high. I say, get off it, it will 'kill you'.
I know its not a MMO, nor is it a server that does this, and I also realize EA and their subscription service sucks...but If i am correct there is a Hardcore mode like one in D2 that is implemented in Hellgate: London. I know its not what you look for, but hey its a permadeath solution, although not a server. Correct me if I am wrong on this, but I remember reading it.
While I'm not sure I would personally like to play on such a server, I can easily see that other people would like it and enjoy it.
But my best guess to why there are no such servers..too few people want it and the very possible problems that will arise when people die from disconnects.
I remember Hardcore mode in Diablo2 and most people simply accepted the lag monster and that it was possible to die that way, however unfair it was.
I simply fear that many people will not accept death due to network lag and server lag. Besides that, I have a feeling it is a minority of the playerbase that want a perma-death server and this is probably also why no such server exist. You need many thousands (10-15k) to create such a server and to make it live and in many mmo's (no counting wow here) that is a rather large amount.
But there is nothing preventing those that would like such a server to suggest it and feedback it to the game they like/play and hope for the best.
Permadeath servers = the least populated servers on the internets!
I mean whats the point of raising a charecter nurturing it etc if it can die ast any time.
May as well paly a FPS they have permadeath of a sort.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
Hey! SWG has perma-death servers! I mean the population is permanently dead on some servers :P
j/k
I don't like the idea. I didn't like the hardcore character thing in Diablo either.
I think that permadeath is a good gameplay feature, but not for mmorpgs. MMORPGS are about developing your character which usually takes months to do, if suddenly you were to lose that character due to say lag, then i am pretty sure you are going to be very pissed off.
However, some games work very well with permadeath. Take for instance a game that might involve leveling a monstour or pet of somekind, if you dont treat it properally it dies and you have to start over with a new pet, you could also have permadeath in this type of game in the form of aging, which adds to the experience since you try to get the best pet possible before it dies, grows old etc.
You could also have it so that if you did die you can respawn as something else depending on the stats, how you died, what alignment you are etc of the previous character you had.
As long as permadeath is implemented in such a way that it does not equal a useless timesink it could be very good. Permadeath servers are not the answer btw, you have to design your game from the ground up to be able to incorparate permadeath in a fun way.
WoW for instance could not have this, the whole game is aimed at you dieing at some point whether it is to tell you a mob is higher level than you or to tell you that the strategy you are using for a boss is incorrect.
Permadeath can if badly implemented take away from pvp as well. It causes people to be worry about losing in pvp since it could ruin your character, this is why it would not work well in pvp games currently out.
Also most pvp games you are going to die constantly every day atleast 4 times a day no matter how good you are, permadeath would be pointless in a game like this because no one would get anywhere it would be no matter than die respawn die respawn you get in wow, except this time it would be die create new character die create new character which would be annoying.
Permadeath is like PvP you can't just tack it on to your game, you have to build your game from the ground up to incorparate it. Just like Full loot and Free for all pvp hell even PvE it would be a case of you cant just tack it on you have to build it into the game from the start or it will not work correctly.