Originally posted by Anofalye Graphics does matter to some extend, they are like the sauce on the meal, it make the meal good or bad, but it is not the nourrishment in anyway. I am pretty sure some nicer graphics exist somewhere for everyone to stare at it, yup, just behind the house, yet, I have no desire to go spend 10 hours behind the house watching at it!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
From what i have read and seen it appears that there will be massive amounts of content and gameplay behind those graphics. I have no idea where some people are getting that Eq2 is all graphics, because Eq2 is much more than graphics....much more.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
I didnt mean to insult anyone, it is just that I see the big pictures and seeing this been the main arguing make me wonder.
EQ2 have a central goal, to make peoples *enjoy* the raiding game. The game and the agenda of the game resolve around it. Dont read me wrong, their is a LOT of work on many others aspects, but they all resolve around the need to raid in order to achieve the TOP(unless you honestly dont care). See, they make a very nice system(let take the grouping), and you LOOOOOOVE it. Saddly, you will realize, that in order to advance your grouping gaming, you NEED to raid, and not only a little...you need to raid 30h+ a week for 2 or 3 months and every expension they bring, you need to redo all the raiding again. If I would not NEED to raid in order to solo and group(I mean, to be as uber as possible in solo and grouping, because if I LOOOOOOOVE grouping and soloing, thereby I will want to be as good as possible to it, and to get it, I have to raid full time and nearly stop soloing and grouping, which in turn will make me HATE raiding instead of shruging at it), I would concur and support someone saying EQ2 is the best choice, but saddly, in the current flawed form, I can only disgress and voice a strong opposition.
WoW is taking the same Agenda, althought I dont think they even realize it, they seem to me like they just do ''What have been done'' before without really understanding what it mean.
Considering that raiding probably come from a need to keep groupers and soloers busy, kinda funny to see how it evolve, aint it?
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
i have raided just a few times in eq1 and i'm a lvl 51 and am still lvling. Raids give horrible exp so really their only purpose is to get items and accomplish quests. Raiding isn't really required ever, unless you want to do your epic or something. Mostly Eq1 and probly Eq2 will be based on grouping. Although some classes solo really well. (magician, necromancer, druid, shaman in eq1 were the best soloers in eq1.) From most of the raids i go on i don't even get any gear that would make me more uber. If i do manage to get any it isn't that good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
Bob: Then my issues about raiding does not really affect you, and the fact everything resolve around raiding is not yet affecting you, in fact, the time you group with heavy raiders is like near never happening, you usually have a second degree contact with heavy raiding, opinions from folks you know and play with. Those issues happen later in the game and I am happy you didnt have to deal with them in your gaming experience yet. Some of my RL friends refuse to level higher then level 56 to remain away from that ending story, which of course is not a solution to me...When I was level 51, I couldnt have care less about the raiding aspect of the game...but in my case, I was 60, then 65, in a question of mere weeks, in fact, I get there WAY before most Afterlifers raiders no offense meant(Uber guilds usually spam me every time they add levels/AAs to get that second chanter beside their main so they can already try that harder thing, which is VERY LAME, why should I be more WANTED in a raiding setting then their second and 3rd chanters, yet, the actual form does that, althought I funnily say I have less HPs then their twink and they better watch over me carefully, then I have a paladin squad nearby and it goes very well and smoothly), yet, once there, all I can do is raiding, that would be a severed option and it could not be worser then having it in my case, since I would quit till next expension and dreaming about it for when they add a few more levels/AAs to keep me busy for a few weeks.
Ano
PS: I dont mean to be rude or offensive, when I use the term raiders, for me, it mean folks that have the maximun levels, most AAs, and that raid 30h+ a week...which is my bad, I just dont know any word to make that difference between hardcores raiders and casual raiders. A raider, to me, is someone that play EQ to raid everyday god bring if they can.
PPS: With maxed AAs and with all the levels, there is nothing but raiding left to improve my grouping performances significantly(the grouping alternative is not even half the reward for many times the work, a real joke)...the fact they made me raid make me into a raid HATER and make me ask many questions about why I was still playing that game that have obviously nothing left for me, and where I have that bad feeling I was ghetto at the end of the grouping game...that feeling alone is bad enought to make sure I will not trust them again. Some peoples say raiding is an option after you *beat the grouping game*, I say it is an *obligation* if you want to actually *beat the grouping game* as they say, since you obviously didnt *beat it*, you can use that raiding gear in order to group better, always...the final result DOES matter.
PPPS: If peoples want to talk logical, nobody will convince me you can take from a God, against that God wishes, a better reward then what the same God willingly give to rewards his best followers...because the best rewards(from Gods) are created on a whim to please good mortals(or evils), not when the Gods are coerced or whatever...
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye EQ2 have a central goal, to make peoples *enjoy* the raiding game. The game and the agenda of the game resolve around it. Dont read me wrong, their is a LOT of work on many others aspects, but they all resolve around the need to raid in order to achieve the TOP(unless you honestly dont care). See, they make a very nice system(let take the grouping), and you LOOOOOOVE it. Saddly, you will realize, that in order to advance your grouping gaming, you NEED to raid, and not only a little...you need to raid 30h+ a week for 2 or 3 months and every expension they bring, you need to redo all the raiding again. If I would not NEED to raid in order to solo and group(I mean, to be as uber as possible in solo and grouping, because if I LOOOOOOOVE grouping and soloing, thereby I will want to be as good as possible to it, and to get it, I have to raid full time and nearly stop soloing and grouping, which in turn will make me HATE raiding instead of shruging at it), I would concur and support someone saying EQ2 is the best choice, but saddly, in the current flawed form, I can only disgress and voice a strong opposition.
Are you talking about EQ or EQ2? Because if you are talking about EQ2, you really need to read up on the game.
Nope, EQ2 will resolve around raid of 24 or less...
72, 100, 24, all the same, I dont care or enjoy this system, and EQ2 will resolve around it...In fact, in the end, once you reach the top of anything, you need to go in raids of 24 in order to achieve more...which is...RAIDING! 7 persons is raiding as far as I am concerned! SoE is just getting better at honey talking, but it is there, you can read it for yourself!
Instead of saying you need to kill a mob that required 24 persons, SoE say: You need a guild that you will help and will help you. In order to be successfull the guild will need to take on powerfull monsters requiring many groups...lalala, I dont read farther then that...(it is written in others words and longer forms).
As long as the best gear is earned in Raids of 24 persons, it make grouping obsolete and pointless, and it is centering the game on raiding. I dont care that raids hand over the best raiding gear, but the best grouping gear cannot be the property of raiders if you want a great grouping system that substain the test of time. Someone that raid in order to be good in groups should NEVER happen, someone that raid need to raid for the raiding game, not to get an unfair edge in the grouping game over folks that dont raid!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye you need to go in raids of 24 in order to achieve more...which is...RAIDING!
To achieve more what? Gear? Don't want to raid for it? Buy it. Make it. Buy it from someone who makes it. Raids are also going to be much shorter. Only two to three hours. Instanced zones may take four to six hours, but you can trigger them any time you want, like on a Saturday afternoon when you have that much time to play. Raiding will be much less of a chore or zerg than it is in EQ, and much less required with most items not being no drop and with high quality crafted items.
Why is it every single screen shot of EQ2 looks so boring? I mean how could that be? Oh I know, it's because the game is boring and it's plain cardboard graphics suck!
------------------- "Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
------------------- "Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
Like: DAoC, WOW, GW, DnL Dislike: SoR, EQ, EQ2, SWG, KO, AC2, CoH Don't Care About: Most Everything Else
Just ignore anafoyle. Anytime he sees an EQ thread he goes off on some repetitive bullshit rant about raiding. . .
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . . . . . God will be cut." - Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
Originally posted by Anofalye you need to go in raids of 24 in order to achieve more...which is...RAIDING!
To achieve more what? Gear? Don't want to raid for it? Buy it. Make it. Buy it from someone who makes it. Raids are also going to be much shorter.
But...
I want to EARN my stuff myself, not to craft it or to raid or to buy it from others. I dont mind hard quest or hunting, I actually like that, but raiding is not the same game anymore then Pac Man is a MMORPG!
Yes, I always rant about raiding...because so few does it online and many peoples that left those MMORPGs left because of the must raid aspect, they want to group or to solo, not to raid, tradeskill, dance or play Pac Man! Raiding is not more challenging, raiding is not better, raiding is another game, is it so hard to understand that?
If someone would put 200 persons on a Basketball game and remove the ball, would you still claim this is basketball?
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
If you can get the best gear by soloing, why group? Why join a guild? Why bother to make friends? I don't like forced grouping or raiding, but I do think the rewards for grouping should be a bit better than those for soloing, and the rewards for raiding should be a bit better than those for grouping. And if you want to have the best of everything by soloing, try CoH.
okay okay not to turn this to a battle of graphics but heres a simple example of each games graphics
EQ2
WoW
GW
Hmmmm is it just me or does WoW look like a game that was made like 2 years ago, and considering its not even out yet, it should at least improve on graphics, hell even Non-upgraded DAoC graphics are MUCH better.
now back to why i think EQ2 will be better then WoW. not saying EQ2 will be good because frankly im not sure. and i hate GW its not even a mmo (dont say it is cuz its not, even if this site or any other site says it is that doesnt make it right, if the entire school said you were a woman and you were a man would that make you a woman? no.) anywhos.
WoW graphics are awful, rumoured penalties for playing it for extrended period of time(cant confirm that). From what ive heard the PvP is going to be nothing special and crap. Only like 8 classes, being generous. Most of the game will be quest oriented. yeah =/ EQ2 will have quests too but at least playing it will be fun because when you see nice things, you can be like wow that looks cool, instead of the UGLY graphics for WoW.
Comments
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
Agree Bob, I didnt say EQ2 was only graphic.
I didnt mean to insult anyone, it is just that I see the big pictures and seeing this been the main arguing make me wonder.
EQ2 have a central goal, to make peoples *enjoy* the raiding game. The game and the agenda of the game resolve around it. Dont read me wrong, their is a LOT of work on many others aspects, but they all resolve around the need to raid in order to achieve the TOP(unless you honestly dont care). See, they make a very nice system(let take the grouping), and you LOOOOOOVE it. Saddly, you will realize, that in order to advance your grouping gaming, you NEED to raid, and not only a little...you need to raid 30h+ a week for 2 or 3 months and every expension they bring, you need to redo all the raiding again. If I would not NEED to raid in order to solo and group(I mean, to be as uber as possible in solo and grouping, because if I LOOOOOOOVE grouping and soloing, thereby I will want to be as good as possible to it, and to get it, I have to raid full time and nearly stop soloing and grouping, which in turn will make me HATE raiding instead of shruging at it), I would concur and support someone saying EQ2 is the best choice, but saddly, in the current flawed form, I can only disgress and voice a strong opposition.
WoW is taking the same Agenda, althought I dont think they even realize it, they seem to me like they just do ''What have been done'' before without really understanding what it mean.
Considering that raiding probably come from a need to keep groupers and soloers busy, kinda funny to see how it evolve, aint it?
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
i have raided just a few times in eq1 and i'm a lvl 51 and am still lvling. Raids give horrible exp so really their only purpose is to get items and accomplish quests. Raiding isn't really required ever, unless you want to do your epic or something. Mostly Eq1 and probly Eq2 will be based on grouping. Although some classes solo really well. (magician, necromancer, druid, shaman in eq1 were the best soloers in eq1.) From most of the raids i go on i don't even get any gear that would make me more uber. If i do manage to get any it isn't that good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
Bob: Then my issues about raiding does not really affect you, and the fact everything resolve around raiding is not yet affecting you, in fact, the time you group with heavy raiders is like near never happening, you usually have a second degree contact with heavy raiding, opinions from folks you know and play with. Those issues happen later in the game and I am happy you didnt have to deal with them in your gaming experience yet. Some of my RL friends refuse to level higher then level 56 to remain away from that ending story, which of course is not a solution to me...When I was level 51, I couldnt have care less about the raiding aspect of the game...but in my case, I was 60, then 65, in a question of mere weeks, in fact, I get there WAY before most Afterlifers raiders no offense meant(Uber guilds usually spam me every time they add levels/AAs to get that second chanter beside their main so they can already try that harder thing, which is VERY LAME, why should I be more WANTED in a raiding setting then their second and 3rd chanters, yet, the actual form does that, althought I funnily say I have less HPs then their twink and they better watch over me carefully, then I have a paladin squad nearby and it goes very well and smoothly), yet, once there, all I can do is raiding, that would be a severed option and it could not be worser then having it in my case, since I would quit till next expension and dreaming about it for when they add a few more levels/AAs to keep me busy for a few weeks.
Ano
PS: I dont mean to be rude or offensive, when I use the term raiders, for me, it mean folks that have the maximun levels, most AAs, and that raid 30h+ a week...which is my bad, I just dont know any word to make that difference between hardcores raiders and casual raiders. A raider, to me, is someone that play EQ to raid everyday god bring if they can.
PPS: With maxed AAs and with all the levels, there is nothing but raiding left to improve my grouping performances significantly(the grouping alternative is not even half the reward for many times the work, a real joke)...the fact they made me raid make me into a raid HATER and make me ask many questions about why I was still playing that game that have obviously nothing left for me, and where I have that bad feeling I was ghetto at the end of the grouping game...that feeling alone is bad enought to make sure I will not trust them again. Some peoples say raiding is an option after you *beat the grouping game*, I say it is an *obligation* if you want to actually *beat the grouping game* as they say, since you obviously didnt *beat it*, you can use that raiding gear in order to group better, always...the final result DOES matter.
PPPS: If peoples want to talk logical, nobody will convince me you can take from a God, against that God wishes, a better reward then what the same God willingly give to rewards his best followers...because the best rewards(from Gods) are created on a whim to please good mortals(or evils), not when the Gods are coerced or whatever...
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Nope, EQ2 will resolve around raid of 24 or less...
72, 100, 24, all the same, I dont care or enjoy this system, and EQ2 will resolve around it...In fact, in the end, once you reach the top of anything, you need to go in raids of 24 in order to achieve more...which is...RAIDING! 7 persons is raiding as far as I am concerned! SoE is just getting better at honey talking, but it is there, you can read it for yourself!
Instead of saying you need to kill a mob that required 24 persons, SoE say: You need a guild that you will help and will help you. In order to be successfull the guild will need to take on powerfull monsters requiring many groups...lalala, I dont read farther then that...(it is written in others words and longer forms).
As long as the best gear is earned in Raids of 24 persons, it make grouping obsolete and pointless, and it is centering the game on raiding. I dont care that raids hand over the best raiding gear, but the best grouping gear cannot be the property of raiders if you want a great grouping system that substain the test of time. Someone that raid in order to be good in groups should NEVER happen, someone that raid need to raid for the raiding game, not to get an unfair edge in the grouping game over folks that dont raid!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
-------------------
"Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
-------------------
"Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
Like: DAoC, WOW, GW, DnL
Dislike: SoR, EQ, EQ2, SWG, KO, AC2, CoH
Don't Care About: Most Everything Else
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . .
. . . God will be cut."
- Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
EQII
Requiiem, Templar
Neriak
But...
I want to EARN my stuff myself, not to craft it or to raid or to buy it from others. I dont mind hard quest or hunting, I actually like that, but raiding is not the same game anymore then Pac Man is a MMORPG!
Yes, I always rant about raiding...because so few does it online and many peoples that left those MMORPGs left because of the must raid aspect, they want to group or to solo, not to raid, tradeskill, dance or play Pac Man! Raiding is not more challenging, raiding is not better, raiding is another game, is it so hard to understand that?
If someone would put 200 persons on a Basketball game and remove the ball, would you still claim this is basketball?
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
If you can get the best gear by soloing, why group? Why join a guild? Why bother to make friends? I don't like forced grouping or raiding, but I do think the rewards for grouping should be a bit better than those for soloing, and the rewards for raiding should be a bit better than those for grouping. And if you want to have the best of everything by soloing, try CoH.
okay okay not to turn this to a battle of graphics but heres a simple example of each games graphics
EQ2
WoW
GW
Hmmmm is it just me or does WoW look like a game that was made like 2 years ago, and considering its not even out yet, it should at least improve on graphics, hell even Non-upgraded DAoC graphics are MUCH better.
now back to why i think EQ2 will be better then WoW. not saying EQ2 will be good because frankly im not sure. and i hate GW its not even a mmo (dont say it is cuz its not, even if this site or any other site says it is that doesnt make it right, if the entire school said you were a woman and you were a man would that make you a woman? no.) anywhos.
WoW graphics are awful, rumoured penalties for playing it for extrended period of time(cant confirm that). From what ive heard the PvP is going to be nothing special and crap. Only like 8 classes, being generous. Most of the game will be quest oriented. yeah =/ EQ2 will have quests too but at least playing it will be fun because when you see nice things, you can be like wow that looks cool, instead of the UGLY graphics for WoW.