Yea, I enjoyed watching that podcast. It brought a big smile to my face. Also I noticed alot of people assuming that these ideas were just thought of right now. I don't see how you can make that assumption unless you heard somewhere that they were. The devs could have had this feature in their books for quite some time now but didn't end up implementing them yet. Plus, these guys are famous for what they did in DAoC from what I hear, so obviously they know how to do it right, which means it won't take as much time as a company who is new to the whole thing. They even told us that we can expect the same concept as DAoC except better, which also hints the fact that they already know what to do. Anyways, great news!
But who can say for sure what WARs system will be like until they reveal that information. I just hope it's not some half-arsed attempt to add depth to a PvP system which apparently was lacking it before beta shut down. Edit: How can you call AoCs PvP system 'tacked on' when it is WAR that is adding this stuff after bad feedback from beta a mere 2 months ago, and AoC's has been an integral part of their design going back to the original design docs. I think it's the other way around my friend.
Mr. Fion,
Judging from the fact that AoC's last delay (at least according to Funcom's press release) was due to a redesign of the combat system due to tester feedback (hm.....sound familiar?) a mere month from its last release date, I don't know how much I trust your objectivity. You had nothing but good things to say about AoC then, even though the cases are remarkably similar. In fact, AoC's is even more troubling because it was the combat system as a whole that apparently was very lacking, and not just an additional facet of pvp as the case with WAR. But of course... that case was for a game that you want to succeed, and so you have nothing but good to say about it.
If you aren't willing to apply the same logic and criticism to both titles, than I don't see if there is any value in continuing this conversation. I'd rather spend my time with discussions that concern themselves with facts and not opinions.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
What I think is really good is that Mythic's Realm vs. Realm (tm) system is flexible enough to add additional content such as forts, keeps and siege weaponry into Open Field RvR.
In fact, throughout the beta process we have been informed whenever has gone back and redone certain game areas -- such as when they revamped the Greenskin/Dwarf area because it was felt, in retrospect after seeing the newer areas, that it lacked a certain "oomph."
That Mythic then should listen and respond to beta tester feedback and add additional Open Field RvR content through forts, keeps and siege weaponry is not at all surprising.
And, this is probably not the last of the content additions.
~~~
Let's take a step back and look at DAoC.
My personal opinion of what made DAoC go downhill was that nearly all of their expansions dealt with adding PvE content to a game that was primarily based on RvR.
Let us hope that this lesson is well learned and that content additions will balance both PvE and RvR themes.
What made DAoC different and fun was the vigorous RvR system. PvE you got in every MMORPG. RvR makes it different from the get-go.
~~~
If RvR content is added to the game on a regular basis it will remain fresh and exciting.
Let's make sure to keep reminding Mythic that the meat-and-potatoes is RvR combat. That's what we want and that's what the game needs.
But who can say for sure what WARs system will be like until they reveal that information. I just hope it's not some half-arsed attempt to add depth to a PvP system which apparently was lacking it before beta shut down. Edit: How can you call AoCs PvP system 'tacked on' when it is WAR that is adding this stuff after bad feedback from beta a mere 2 months ago, and AoC's has been an integral part of their design going back to the original design docs. I think it's the other way around my friend.
Mr. Fion,
Judging from the fact that AoC's last delay (at least according to Funcom's press release) was due to a redesign of the combat system due to tester feedback (hm.....sound familiar?) a mere month from its last release date, I don't know how much I trust your objectivity. You had nothing but good things to say about AoC then, even though the cases are remarkably similar. In fact, AoC's is even more troubling because it was the combat system as a whole that apparently was very lacking, and not just an additional facet of pvp as the case with WAR. But of course... that case was for a game that you want to succeed, and so you have nothing but good to say about it.
If you aren't willing to apply the same logic and criticism to both titles, than I don't see if there is any value in continuing this conversation. I'd rather spend my time with discussions that concern themselves with facts and not opinions.
I'm probably gonna piss a few people off when I say this but I just have to do it...
BOOM HEADSHOT!!!
Sorry, continue on...
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Grunties
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
But if your after Forts, Keeps and Siege Weapons then look to AoC, alot of information about that area has already been released and the PvP in that particular area isn't instanced.
Aye, but in AoC it is stuck in a specific and completely avoidable pvp only zone, and most sieges will be limited to the largest guilds on the server since they will be the ones to own all of the locations.
Knowing Mythics past particularly with DAoC, forts keeps and sieges in WAR will be accessible to all players regardless of guild affiliation or play style and will pull a large number of the playerbase that aren't a member of AoC's powergaming elite. It might not be limited to specific times of day like AoC's, have artificial limitations of ownership like AoC's, and not be completely removed from all non-pvp game systems like AoC's. In other words, more integrated with the entire world and accessible to all player types and play schedules.
Looking forward to hearing more of this, because I much prefer Mythic's style of integrating pvp into the world compared to other games, as it tends to be more far reaching and less tacked on.
Hey im all for progress via beta feedback, just look at AoC and what happened there. My point is we know less of the system in Warhammer with the same things included. I also think its a bit presumptious to assume that there wont be some time limitations to it, if it does release with some limitations, I wonder if all the people who cried foul with AoC's system will do the same here if it does turn out similar. Btw AoC's area for sieging is open 24/7, not an Instance and you can even soften the walls / defenses up before the fight kicks off. I think everything is Yellow is an Assumption, which is cool, hope it works out like that, but you know AoC isn't RvR though.
Problem I have is the same types of assumption here (that all this stuff was in before) can't really be proved true as it was only after player feedback war is going this route. Thats what the guy says in the trailer. I think the original 2 points I brought up were just something I found interesting in this actual podcast approach.
Oh and this thread was originally posted in the general discussion area, and for those that disagree people can have an opinion here. I was just making an observation after viewing the trailer, i still think its good they listen to the testers doing their job
Forget the WAR vs AOC thing. Bottom line is they re different some similarities but the biggest difference is WAR is more PVP based and can say now RVR based. Sure the political side that AOC might bring is interesting, but to me nothing will beat what DAOC had and what WAR is now bringing and thats fun. I m not saying AOC spvp wont be fun but i know WAR s will be because of what DAOC had. So i will stick with WAR and most people i know as well. I just want to log in and have fun wether it be some instanced quick rvr or the long battles to sack a city. Being a rvr type player i can actually say i m looking forward to the pve in WAR especially the PQ. To sum it up DAOC s keep fight s and Relic raids were easily the best times i had in any game by a long shot so if WAR can bring some of those good times back even a small amount i m there.:)
Seems like a lot of people are focusing on the negative. I think this is a positive step forward that will improve the final game when it comes out. It shows that mythic is actually listening to their beta testers and making positive changes as a result. It's a win win when the players speak and the company listens. However, these are MAJOR changes to be making this late in the development stage in my opinion, and I doubt the game will be released by Q2 2008.
I was a little surprised they didn't already have the divergent skill lines; that's something they had in DAoC at launch. Tactics seem nice but they're not enough to differentiate a class.. it'd be a shame if every class was forced to spec the same way.
Personally I feel instances are rather artificial and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't care as much about taking that checkpoint when 30 minutes later it will be reset. Taking a keep gives a sense of permanence.. you've expanded your armies sphere of influence. Since WAR is about taking the battle to your enemies capital, this is a nice change from DAoC; seems like the keeps will be excellent stepping stones to push the fight into enemy lands.
On the other hand, this is a kind of nerf for all melee classes. There will be less for them to do in keep sieges while the door is going down just as it was in DAoC.
So it's a mixed bag, but overall I think it's a smart choice to A.) give the community what they asked for and B.) play to the companies already proven strengths in siege warfare.
You think this thread would be full of positive feedback. I guess there is no pleasing you people. Mythic will do this well they were the 1st do it right.
Seems like a lot of people are focusing on the negative. I think this is a positive step forward that will improve the final game when it comes out. It shows that mythic is actually listening to their beta testers and making positive changes as a result. It's a win win when the players speak and the company listens. However, these are MAJOR changes to be making this late in the development stage in my opinion, and I doubt the game will be released by Q2 2008. I was a little surprised they didn't already have the divergent skill lines; that's something they had in DAoC at launch. Tactics seem nice but they're not enough to differentiate a class.. it'd be a shame if every class was forced to spec the same way. Personally I feel instances are rather artificial and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't care as much about taking that checkpoint when 30 minutes later it will be reset. Taking a keep gives a sense of permanence.. you've expanded your armies sphere of influence. Since WAR is about taking the battle to your enemies capital, this is a nice change from DAoC; seems like the keeps will be excellent stepping stones to push the fight into enemy lands. On the other hand, this is a kind of nerf for all melee classes. There will be less for them to do in keep sieges while the door is going down just as it was in DAoC. So it's a mixed bag, but overall I think it's a smart choice to A.) give the community what they asked for and B.) play to the companies already proven strengths in siege warfare.
A few comments here. Pushing through enemy territory via taking keeps happened specifically like that in DAoC. So.. I'm just saying I am confused about you saying it's a nice change when it is pretty much the same.
I agree with you about the masteries.. but since they apparently have created these skill trees and from everything I've read and watched, they are close to finished, I'd venture to imagine that something like this was already laid out and if testers made a case for it... it could easily be implemented.
Keep in mind, about the melee classes defending keeps. Inside the keep they may have little to do. But remember that according to Pauls combat videos, there is collision detection in WAR. That alone will make breaking down the door a lot more dangerous for the attackers where the defenders can create a choke point by lining up a group of tanks.
I'm hoping for a Q2 release, but I'm not holding my breath.
This game is going to get delayed once again, just so everybody knows.
So Fion Shoo! Shoo I say! Go back to AoC who had to scrap their combat system because it was horrid.
lol, scrapped? No. They made it a bit simpler because they listened to beta testers telling them the learning curve was a bit too long. They did not scrap anything about the combat system. Read before you talk. Have fun with your dumbed down combat, I'm sure it will be awesome.
Which game did I see this in? lol. This game is going to get delayed once again, just so everybody knows.
So Fion Shoo! Shoo I say! Go back to AoC who had to scrap their combat system because it was horrid.
lol, scrapped? No. They made it a bit simpler because they listened to beta testers telling them the learning curve was a bit too long. They did not scrap anything about the combat system. Read before you talk. Have fun with your dumbed down combat, I'm sure it will be awesome.
The only thing worse than a fanboy is a fanboy who thinks he knows everything.
I hope everyone realises that the last version of beta was an extremely early version of beta and the game wasn't even near complete. That does not mean on their internal server the game isn't complete
Which game did I see this in? lol. This game is going to get delayed once again, just so everybody knows.
So Fion Shoo! Shoo I say! Go back to AoC who had to scrap their combat system because it was horrid.
lol, scrapped? No. They made it a bit simpler because they listened to beta testers telling them the learning curve was a bit too long. They did not scrap anything about the combat system. Read before you talk. Have fun with your dumbed down combat, I'm sure it will be awesome.
The only thing worse than a fanboy is a fanboy who thinks he knows everything.
I corrected somebody because they are wrong, so I think I know everything?
And I believe an upcoming game will be better then another one, so I am automatically a fan boy.
Which game did I see this in? lol. This game is going to get delayed once again, just so everybody knows.
So Fion Shoo! Shoo I say! Go back to AoC who had to scrap their combat system because it was horrid.
lol, scrapped? No. They made it a bit simpler because they listened to beta testers telling them the learning curve was a bit too long. They did not scrap anything about the combat system. Read before you talk. Have fun with your dumbed down combat, I'm sure it will be awesome.
The only thing worse than a fanboy is a fanboy who thinks he knows everything.
I corrected somebody because they are wrong, so I think I know everything?
And I believe an upcoming game will be better then another one, so I am automatically a fan boy.
Sheesh, lay off of the stereotypes.
Well, the stereotype is just my opinion of you. Why? Because (unless I read your post wrong and it's possible it's fairly vague) you do not express a view of personal opinion but rather a statement of fact based on your speculation. "This game is going to get delayed once again, just so everybody knows." Perhaps if you added an "I think" in front of the sentence. The way it reads is I know this and this is the way it's going to be just so everybody else knows.
"Have fun with your dumbed down combat, I'm sure it will be awesome." As if you know how the combat will be. Another example of the "know it all" attitude.
Why do I call you a fanboy though? Well this is imo but why is your post necessary (other than the correction which would of been understandable if that was all you said)? Why is there a need to come to this forum and display your opinion of AoC but also bash WAR? That is what I see as fanboys. Go look at the AOC forums and see if you see my name pop up anywhere and on top of that bashing the game. You won't. Only fanboys in my opinion need to jump forums raising their selected game on a pedastal while criticizing the opposition.
So that is why I call you a fanboy and know it all. Like I said I could of read your post wrong and I welcome the correction.
All in all though, most of this thread is a pointless arguement.
Which game did I see this in? lol. This game is going to get delayed once again, just so everybody knows.
So Fion Shoo! Shoo I say! Go back to AoC who had to scrap their combat system because it was horrid.
lol, scrapped? No. They made it a bit simpler because they listened to beta testers telling them the learning curve was a bit too long. They did not scrap anything about the combat system. Read before you talk. Have fun with your dumbed down combat, I'm sure it will be awesome.
Once again, another example of what I was talking about in that thread I made a couple weeks back talking about people bashing WAR. So how long do you plan on staying?
And how exactly did this thread get on the topic of AoC anyways? Man some people just never give up do they...
The problem is and i ll never understand it, is when someone likes another game has to come to other boards and bash that game. Why?? Are they bored in their RL that much . What does it matter if another game you might not like, alot of others do . I could care less to ever play AOC it just doesn t do it for me but why would i go to their boards and bash it. I have so much more important things to do then waste my time with that. As far as the game being delayed again possibly. I say good if the game is going to be better. Yes i agree i would love to play it now but honestly if it takes another year and has keeps etc that i loved in DAOC implemented well, not just thrown in at the end i ll be happy with that. Until then please stick to your boards of whatever game you re going to play and let us that want to play WAR talk about WAR wether it s good or bad.
Comments
Yea, I enjoyed watching that podcast. It brought a big smile to my face. Also I noticed alot of people assuming that these ideas were just thought of right now. I don't see how you can make that assumption unless you heard somewhere that they were. The devs could have had this feature in their books for quite some time now but didn't end up implementing them yet. Plus, these guys are famous for what they did in DAoC from what I hear, so obviously they know how to do it right, which means it won't take as much time as a company who is new to the whole thing. They even told us that we can expect the same concept as DAoC except better, which also hints the fact that they already know what to do. Anyways, great news!
Mr. Fion,
Judging from the fact that AoC's last delay (at least according to Funcom's press release) was due to a redesign of the combat system due to tester feedback (hm.....sound familiar?) a mere month from its last release date, I don't know how much I trust your objectivity. You had nothing but good things to say about AoC then, even though the cases are remarkably similar. In fact, AoC's is even more troubling because it was the combat system as a whole that apparently was very lacking, and not just an additional facet of pvp as the case with WAR. But of course... that case was for a game that you want to succeed, and so you have nothing but good to say about it.
If you aren't willing to apply the same logic and criticism to both titles, than I don't see if there is any value in continuing this conversation. I'd rather spend my time with discussions that concern themselves with facts and not opinions.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
What I think is really good is that Mythic's Realm vs. Realm (tm) system is flexible enough to add additional content such as forts, keeps and siege weaponry into Open Field RvR.
In fact, throughout the beta process we have been informed whenever has gone back and redone certain game areas -- such as when they revamped the Greenskin/Dwarf area because it was felt, in retrospect after seeing the newer areas, that it lacked a certain "oomph."
That Mythic then should listen and respond to beta tester feedback and add additional Open Field RvR content through forts, keeps and siege weaponry is not at all surprising.
And, this is probably not the last of the content additions.
~~~
Let's take a step back and look at DAoC.
My personal opinion of what made DAoC go downhill was that nearly all of their expansions dealt with adding PvE content to a game that was primarily based on RvR.
Let us hope that this lesson is well learned and that content additions will balance both PvE and RvR themes.
What made DAoC different and fun was the vigorous RvR system. PvE you got in every MMORPG. RvR makes it different from the get-go.
~~~
If RvR content is added to the game on a regular basis it will remain fresh and exciting.
Let's make sure to keep reminding Mythic that the meat-and-potatoes is RvR combat. That's what we want and that's what the game needs.
~ Ancient Membership ~
Mr. Fion,
Judging from the fact that AoC's last delay (at least according to Funcom's press release) was due to a redesign of the combat system due to tester feedback (hm.....sound familiar?) a mere month from its last release date, I don't know how much I trust your objectivity. You had nothing but good things to say about AoC then, even though the cases are remarkably similar. In fact, AoC's is even more troubling because it was the combat system as a whole that apparently was very lacking, and not just an additional facet of pvp as the case with WAR. But of course... that case was for a game that you want to succeed, and so you have nothing but good to say about it.
If you aren't willing to apply the same logic and criticism to both titles, than I don't see if there is any value in continuing this conversation. I'd rather spend my time with discussions that concern themselves with facts and not opinions.
I'm probably gonna piss a few people off when I say this but I just have to do it...
BOOM HEADSHOT!!!
Sorry, continue on...
Knowing Mythics past particularly with DAoC, forts keeps and sieges in WAR will be accessible to all players regardless of guild affiliation or play style and will pull a large number of the playerbase that aren't a member of AoC's powergaming elite. It might not be limited to specific times of day like AoC's, have artificial limitations of ownership like AoC's, and not be completely removed from all non-pvp game systems like AoC's. In other words, more integrated with the entire world and accessible to all player types and play schedules.
Looking forward to hearing more of this, because I much prefer Mythic's style of integrating pvp into the world compared to other games, as it tends to be more far reaching and less tacked on.
Hey im all for progress via beta feedback, just look at AoC and what happened there. My point is we know less of the system in Warhammer with the same things included. I also think its a bit presumptious to assume that there wont be some time limitations to it, if it does release with some limitations, I wonder if all the people who cried foul with AoC's system will do the same here if it does turn out similar. Btw AoC's area for sieging is open 24/7, not an Instance and you can even soften the walls / defenses up before the fight kicks off. I think everything is Yellow is an Assumption, which is cool, hope it works out like that, but you know AoC isn't RvR though.
Problem I have is the same types of assumption here (that all this stuff was in before) can't really be proved true as it was only after player feedback war is going this route. Thats what the guy says in the trailer. I think the original 2 points I brought up were just something I found interesting in this actual podcast approach.
Oh and this thread was originally posted in the general discussion area, and for those that disagree people can have an opinion here. I was just making an observation after viewing the trailer, i still think its good they listen to the testers doing their job
Forget the WAR vs AOC thing. Bottom line is they re different some similarities but the biggest difference is WAR is more PVP based and can say now RVR based. Sure the political side that AOC might bring is interesting, but to me nothing will beat what DAOC had and what WAR is now bringing and thats fun. I m not saying AOC spvp wont be fun but i know WAR s will be because of what DAOC had. So i will stick with WAR and most people i know as well. I just want to log in and have fun wether it be some instanced quick rvr or the long battles to sack a city. Being a rvr type player i can actually say i m looking forward to the pve in WAR especially the PQ. To sum it up DAOC s keep fight s and Relic raids were easily the best times i had in any game by a long shot so if WAR can bring some of those good times back even a small amount i m there.:)
Seems like a lot of people are focusing on the negative. I think this is a positive step forward that will improve the final game when it comes out. It shows that mythic is actually listening to their beta testers and making positive changes as a result. It's a win win when the players speak and the company listens. However, these are MAJOR changes to be making this late in the development stage in my opinion, and I doubt the game will be released by Q2 2008.
I was a little surprised they didn't already have the divergent skill lines; that's something they had in DAoC at launch. Tactics seem nice but they're not enough to differentiate a class.. it'd be a shame if every class was forced to spec the same way.
Personally I feel instances are rather artificial and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't care as much about taking that checkpoint when 30 minutes later it will be reset. Taking a keep gives a sense of permanence.. you've expanded your armies sphere of influence. Since WAR is about taking the battle to your enemies capital, this is a nice change from DAoC; seems like the keeps will be excellent stepping stones to push the fight into enemy lands.
On the other hand, this is a kind of nerf for all melee classes. There will be less for them to do in keep sieges while the door is going down just as it was in DAoC.
So it's a mixed bag, but overall I think it's a smart choice to A.) give the community what they asked for and B.) play to the companies already proven strengths in siege warfare.
Go WAR
and
AoC's siege trailer looks boring.
You think this thread would be full of positive feedback. I guess there is no pleasing you people. Mythic will do this well they were the 1st do it right.
I agree with you about the masteries.. but since they apparently have created these skill trees and from everything I've read and watched, they are close to finished, I'd venture to imagine that something like this was already laid out and if testers made a case for it... it could easily be implemented.
Keep in mind, about the melee classes defending keeps. Inside the keep they may have little to do. But remember that according to Pauls combat videos, there is collision detection in WAR. That alone will make breaking down the door a lot more dangerous for the attackers where the defenders can create a choke point by lining up a group of tanks.
I'm hoping for a Q2 release, but I'm not holding my breath.
Which game did I see this in? lol.
This game is going to get delayed once again, just so everybody knows.
So Fion Shoo! Shoo I say! Go back to AoC who had to scrap their combat system because it was horrid.
lol, scrapped? No. They made it a bit simpler because they listened to beta testers telling them the learning curve was a bit too long. They did not scrap anything about the combat system. Read before you talk. Have fun with your dumbed down combat, I'm sure it will be awesome.
|Mortal Online|Gnostaria|
The only thing worse than a fanboy is a fanboy who thinks he knows everything.
I hope everyone realises that the last version of beta was an extremely early version of beta and the game wasn't even near complete. That does not mean on their internal server the game isn't complete
The only thing worse than a fanboy is a fanboy who thinks he knows everything.
I corrected somebody because they are wrong, so I think I know everything?And I believe an upcoming game will be better then another one, so I am automatically a fan boy.
Sheesh, lay off of the stereotypes.
|Mortal Online|Gnostaria|
The only thing worse than a fanboy is a fanboy who thinks he knows everything.
I corrected somebody because they are wrong, so I think I know everything?And I believe an upcoming game will be better then another one, so I am automatically a fan boy.
Sheesh, lay off of the stereotypes.
Well, the stereotype is just my opinion of you. Why? Because (unless I read your post wrong and it's possible it's fairly vague) you do not express a view of personal opinion but rather a statement of fact based on your speculation. "This game is going to get delayed once again, just so everybody knows." Perhaps if you added an "I think" in front of the sentence. The way it reads is I know this and this is the way it's going to be just so everybody else knows.
"Have fun with your dumbed down combat, I'm sure it will be awesome." As if you know how the combat will be. Another example of the "know it all" attitude.
Why do I call you a fanboy though? Well this is imo but why is your post necessary (other than the correction which would of been understandable if that was all you said)? Why is there a need to come to this forum and display your opinion of AoC but also bash WAR? That is what I see as fanboys. Go look at the AOC forums and see if you see my name pop up anywhere and on top of that bashing the game. You won't. Only fanboys in my opinion need to jump forums raising their selected game on a pedastal while criticizing the opposition.
So that is why I call you a fanboy and know it all. Like I said I could of read your post wrong and I welcome the correction.
All in all though, most of this thread is a pointless arguement.
And how exactly did this thread get on the topic of AoC anyways? Man some people just never give up do they...
I think you two should get a room.
I think you should let this thread die.
The problem is and i ll never understand it, is when someone likes another game has to come to other boards and bash that game. Why?? Are they bored in their RL that much . What does it matter if another game you might not like, alot of others do . I could care less to ever play AOC it just doesn t do it for me but why would i go to their boards and bash it. I have so much more important things to do then waste my time with that. As far as the game being delayed again possibly. I say good if the game is going to be better. Yes i agree i would love to play it now but honestly if it takes another year and has keeps etc that i loved in DAOC implemented well, not just thrown in at the end i ll be happy with that. Until then please stick to your boards of whatever game you re going to play and let us that want to play WAR talk about WAR wether it s good or bad.