Yeah I know, but that is an option, not many people will sue it, because its much harder.
Its more off a novelty instead of something you (must) use all the time. Its like giving Battlefield or Unreal auto aim, but keeping the option to manually aim.
So your mad because they gave you the option to play TR the way that best suits you?
This is little bit like two way street. I mean You should not be mad because there is easyer option for You and other players. How ever having easyer option for others and Your self can affect the enjoyment of You playing in negative ways too. Like why I do it hard way, if no-one else does. It's little childish, but it does affect players fun. So, in some way I do understand it, but whining about because something isn't way You expected it to be, isn't doing good to anyone.
Yeah I know, but that is an option, not many people will sue it, because its much harder.
Its more off a novelty instead of something you (must) use all the time. Its like giving Battlefield or Unreal auto aim, but keeping the option to manually aim.
So your mad because they gave you the option to play TR the way that best suits you?
I'm not mad, just hugely surprised.
The game was hyped to have a groundbreaking targetting system way different then any other mmo.
"It’s an RPG, but it’s one where positioning is important, you can actually get behind cover, and you don’t roll for damage until you actually pull the trigger on your gun - there is no “auto-attack.”
This also implies attacking/targetting is different then other mmo's.
Just got this text from a article written on november 27th 2007.http://www.viridiangames.com/blog/?p=424 "It’s an RPG, but it’s one where positioning is important, you can actually get behind cover, and you don’t roll for damage until you actually pull the trigger on your gun - there is no “auto-attack.”
This also implies attacking/targetting is different then other mmo's.
Yes, it does implicate that it's different that most mmorpgs and it is different. Also what it says there is true, just not the way You seem to expected it to be. So, You got hope it would be something different what it was and got disapointed. It's not really TR's fault is it?
The different between TR and normal RPG mmorpgs is that in TR You don't have to lock in You target as aiming, in other RPG mmorpgs You can't attack enemy without locking it.
Some of you really have no clue about game mechanics.
There is real-time and then there is turn based.
This game is turn based. Need me to explain?
There is auto attack. Hold down your trigger button onto a target. The target is now locked on or targeted like a traditional MMO. Now hold attack. You are now auto attacking.
The difference between the combat in TR and other MMOs? Freedom of movement. It doesn't interrupt skills or attacks. The next difference is that you have to break your finger holding down the dang attack button the entire time.
Rolls are still made. Critical hits and resistance is calculated as well as miss chance on a moving target.
It is the same as any damn MMO except freedom of movement.. even then a lot of other MMOs offer freedom of movement so it isn't freaken unique at all. It's just a cover-up to make something look like what it isn't.
This game is going to tank like Auto Assault did. I'm losing my faith in this company very quickly..
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
Some of you really have no clue about game mechanics. There is real-time and then there is turn based. This game is turn based. Need me to explain? There is auto attack. Hold down your trigger button onto a target. The target is now locked on or targeted like a traditional MMO. Now hold attack. You are now auto attacking.
Okey, wise guy, how You lock in target with shotgun in TR?
Some of you really have no clue about game mechanics. There is real-time and then there is turn based. This game is turn based. Need me to explain? There is auto attack. Hold down your trigger button onto a target. The target is now locked on or targeted like a traditional MMO. Now hold attack. You are now auto attacking.
Okey, wise guy, how You lock in target with shotgun in TR?
As You seem to know the game so well.
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
Okey, wise guy, how You lock in target with shotgun in TR? As You seem to know the game so well.
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
Yes, but how does the targeting works in those mmorpgs, when they have like shotgun effects. Can You shoot in some direction without targeting anyting and still hit enemies?
Because so far what I know, You can't do that in any normal mmorpgs. You can have cone damage effect, but You allways need target for it.
Okey, wise guy, how You lock in target with shotgun in TR? As You seem to know the game so well.
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
Yes, but how does the targeting works in those mmorpgs, when they have like shotgun effects. Can You shoot in some direction without targeting anyting and still hit enemies?
Because so far what I know, You can't do that in any normal mmorpgs. You can have cone damage effect, but You allways need target for it.
Shotguns do target something. Don't you see the targeting ring? It locks onto a target and shoots in that direction and hits anything in that direction at a certain distance from the locked target. It's the same as any other MMOs cone based attacks. It's no where near real-time. Still turned based as always, but they do cleverly try to hide it I give them that.
Here's an easy test for you.. get lets say a pistol or something.. target a mob.. now move your curser off the mob and continue to shoot or hold down the button. It will still hit the "locked" target. I can give screenshots if you like.
You can also lower the lock time in the options to hide the turn based combat even more, but it's still there. They've basically combined targeting and auto attack into 1 button. If you click to target something then press lets say A as auto attack.. that's a 2 step process.. they've made it so you click to target and it begins auto-attack. Still turn based.. just trying to hide it is all they've done. This allows them you trick the players, but not have the heavy burdeon of a true FPS.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
Okey, wise guy, how You lock in target with shotgun in TR? As You seem to know the game so well.
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
Yes, but how does the targeting works in those mmorpgs, when they have like shotgun effects. Can You shoot in some direction without targeting anyting and still hit enemies?
Because so far what I know, You can't do that in any normal mmorpgs. You can have cone damage effect, but You allways need target for it.
Shotguns do target something. Don't you see the targeting ring? It locks onto a target and shoots in that direction and hits anything in that direction at a certain distance from the locked target. It's the same as any other MMOs cone based attacks. It's no where near real-time. Still turned based as always, but they do cleverly try to hide it I give them that.
Here's an easy test for you.. get lets say a pistol or something.. target a mob.. now move your curser off the mob and continue to shoot or hold down the button. It will still hit the "locked" target. I can give screenshots if you like.
You can also lower the lock time in the options to hide the turn based combat even more, but it's still there. They've basically combined targeting and auto attack into 1 button. If you click to target something then press lets say A as auto attack.. that's a 2 step process.. they've made it so you click to target and it begins auto-attack. Still turn based.. just trying to hide it is all they've done. This allows them you trick the players, but not have the heavy burdeon of a true FPS.
You are corrrect with pistol but wrong with shotgun. Shotgun can't be locked in TR, it has no lock even if You try to target enemy and keep mouse key down. Next time You play, look closely and try it. So, if You can shoot without actually locking at all, that is different to many mmorpgs.
How ever You are right with pistol, if You target something and do even single shot to enemy. Games makes automaticly assumption that You next target is same and starts this target following white target picture. Interesting question how ever is, how did You do the first shot without locking the target, because You can do that. In normal mmorpgs You can't shoot without locking first the target. How ever in TR You can shoot without locking, but it gets locked after the first shot. If You shoot some other target, then it change the target. Also if You keep mousee down, while enemy is in You target, You will auto shoot as long You keep mouse key down to that target. How ever even moment release in mouse, release the targets soft locking. So, in single target guns You are right.
How ever, shotgun situation does make it interesting, because it doesn't follow the normal mmorpg targeting type, actually it's more to FPS shooting. So, question is, is the engine behind the shooting actually at all like normal mmorpg or does it just feel little like it because target locks? More like game is assisting You targeting, because it would be too hard with heavy lag other ways, with single target weapons? How ever shotgun doesn' t need it, because if the direction is correct, it has wider cone damage.
What I'm trying to say, because how the shotgun works in TR and how the target locking can be done after the first shot, I believe there is actually FPS shooting system behind, but they builded this auto target follow system to help players to hit targets. My ques it is because game lag, lower end computer in customers and internet delays. Also TR seem to be calculating line of fire in the first shot to determine targets.
Okey, wise guy, how You lock in target with shotgun in TR? As You seem to know the game so well.
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
Yes, but how does the targeting works in those mmorpgs, when they have like shotgun effects. Can You shoot in some direction without targeting anyting and still hit enemies?
Because so far what I know, You can't do that in any normal mmorpgs. You can have cone damage effect, but You allways need target for it.
Shotguns do target something. Don't you see the targeting ring? It locks onto a target and shoots in that direction and hits anything in that direction at a certain distance from the locked target. It's the same as any other MMOs cone based attacks. It's no where near real-time. Still turned based as always, but they do cleverly try to hide it I give them that.
Here's an easy test for you.. get lets say a pistol or something.. target a mob.. now move your curser off the mob and continue to shoot or hold down the button. It will still hit the "locked" target. I can give screenshots if you like.
You can also lower the lock time in the options to hide the turn based combat even more, but it's still there. They've basically combined targeting and auto attack into 1 button. If you click to target something then press lets say A as auto attack.. that's a 2 step process.. they've made it so you click to target and it begins auto-attack. Still turn based.. just trying to hide it is all they've done. This allows them you trick the players, but not have the heavy burdeon of a true FPS.
You are corrrect with pistol but wrong with shotgun. Shotgun can't be locked in TR, it has no lock even if You try to target enemy and keep mouse key down. Next time You play, look closely and try it. So, if You can shoot without actually locking at all, that is different to many mmorpgs.
How ever You are right with pistol, if You target something and do even single shot to enemy. Games makes automaticly assumption that You next target is same and starts this target following white target picture. Interesting question how ever is, how did You do the first shot without locking the target, because You can do that. In normal mmorpgs You can't shoot without locking first the target. How ever in TR You can shoot without locking, but it gets locked after the first shot. If You shoot some other target, then it change the target. Also if You keep mousee down, while enemy is in You target, You will auto shoot as long You keep mouse key down to that target. How ever even moment release in mouse, release the targets soft locking. So, in single target guns You are right.
How ever, shotgun situation does make it interesting, because it doesn't follow the normal mmorpg targeting type, actually it's more to FPS shooting. So, question is, is the engine behind the shooting actually at all like normal mmorpg or does it just feel little like it because target locks? More like game is assisting You targeting, because it would be too hard with heavy lag other ways, with single target weapons? How ever shotgun doesn' t need it, because if the direction is correct, it has wider cone damage.
What I'm trying to say, because how the shotgun works in TR, I believe there is actually FPS shooting system behind, but they builded this auto targeting system to help players to hit targets. My ques it is because game lag, lower end computer in customers and internet delays. Also TR seem to be calculating line of fire in the first shot to determine targets.
Test it and think about it.
The shotgun uses a cone radius. Technically It needs no target.. it'll simply predetermine anything inside the cone and do the damage as needed as well as the rolls. Think of it like a PBOE.. it has no target, but yet it has a target.. if that makes sense.
The game is turn based. I don't know how much more I need to explain this. It's not real time... nor will it ever be.. not with this engine.
If you've played as many MMOs as I have you'd see it in several of them. Cones don't need a target.. nor do PBAOES.. they calculate damage to any attackable object in their predetermined ranged/radius.
Cones and PBAOES are the easiest to trick being turn based, simply because you don't literally need to target something. Like lets say WOWs cone of frost. Doesn't need a target, but is basically like the shotgun. It being a spell, but the mechanics are one in the same.
There is absolutely no FPS mechanics in the game. You're seeing nothing but clever design. That's it. I am a developer. I am doing something similar. I know how it works. If it was pure FPS based 1) the code couldn't handle it and 2) plenty of FPS games would probably have larger maps. The network code in no one in hell could even handle the massive amount of physics code trying to be passed through by all the players.
When it comes to FPS style you're looking at physics calculations between the gun and the ammo it self. The ammo in the game is nothing more then a particle effect with a predetermined outcome already calculated. What this means is any mob in the cone of your shotgun instantly as you click is already damaged. Visually it hasn't happened yet, but the system already has the information. There is no time between bullet to target interaction.. there is no physical force between you and the target.. none of it is done.. it's passed to the system instantly as you click and rolls/calculations are already done. This is why you can shoot something then the mob can run behind a rock, but still get hit by a projectile that's already been shot, but you can't continue to shoot afterwards, because he's no longer in LOS. It's turn based. I don't know how much more I gotta explain this.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
The shotgun uses a cone radius. Technically It needs no target.. it'll simply predetermine anything inside the cone and do the damage as needed as well as the rolls. Think of it like a PBOE.. it has no target, but yet it has a target.. if that makes sense.
If you've played as many MMOs as I have you'd see it in several of them. Cones don't need a target.. nor do PBAOES.. they calculate damage to any attackable object in their predetermined ranged/radius. Cones and PBAOES are the easiest to trick being turn based, simply because you don't literally need to target something. Like lets say WOWs cone of frost. Doesn't need a target, but is basically like the shotgun. It being a spell, but the mechanics are one in the same. There is absolutely no FPS mechanics in the game. You're seeing nothing but clever design. That's it. I am a developer. I am doing something similar. I know how it works. If it was pure FPS based 1) the code couldn't handle it and 2) plenty of FPS games would probably have larger maps. The network code in no one in hell could even handle the massive amount of physics code trying to be passed through by all the players. When it comes to FPS style you're looking at physics calculations between the gun and the ammo it self. The ammo in the game is nothing more then a particle effect with a predetermined outcome already calculated. What this means is any mob in the cone of your shotgun instantly as you click is already damaged. Visually it hasn't happened yet, but the system already has the information. There is no time between bullet to target interaction.. there is no physical force between you and the target.. none of it is done.. it's passed to the system instantly as you click and rolls/calculations are already done. This is why you can shoot something then the mob can run behind a rock, but still get hit by a projectile that's already been shot, but you can't continue to shoot afterwards, because he's no longer in LOS. It's turn based. I don't know how much more I gotta explain this.
After reading this, all what I can say what a BS. Some what You say is true, but some aren't.
You can't normally shoot anyting in mmorpgs without selecting target first. That is fact in normal mmorpgs. This includes area effect attacks and cone attacks. Lets ask from other players here, can You shoot in normal mmorpgs anyting without choosing some target first. Only what doesn't require targets in normal mmorpgs are team effects or around You effects. Everyting else require targets. It can be target in ground or enemy, but it's allways something.
Also You ignored the fact that shotgun in TR doesn't require target, what means the game has to calculate what enemies are in like of fire as inside the cone. That is FPS feature.
There is no point me to arguing with You if You did not even know this about mmorpgs or don't want to know the facts.
The shotgun uses a cone radius. Technically It needs no target.. it'll simply predetermine anything inside the cone and do the damage as needed as well as the rolls. Think of it like a PBOE.. it has no target, but yet it has a target.. if that makes sense.
If you've played as many MMOs as I have you'd see it in several of them. Cones don't need a target.. nor do PBAOES.. they calculate damage to any attackable object in their predetermined ranged/radius. Cones and PBAOES are the easiest to trick being turn based, simply because you don't literally need to target something. Like lets say WOWs cone of frost. Doesn't need a target, but is basically like the shotgun. It being a spell, but the mechanics are one in the same. There is absolutely no FPS mechanics in the game. You're seeing nothing but clever design. That's it. I am a developer. I am doing something similar. I know how it works. If it was pure FPS based 1) the code couldn't handle it and 2) plenty of FPS games would probably have larger maps. The network code in no one in hell could even handle the massive amount of physics code trying to be passed through by all the players. When it comes to FPS style you're looking at physics calculations between the gun and the ammo it self. The ammo in the game is nothing more then a particle effect with a predetermined outcome already calculated. What this means is any mob in the cone of your shotgun instantly as you click is already damaged. Visually it hasn't happened yet, but the system already has the information. There is no time between bullet to target interaction.. there is no physical force between you and the target.. none of it is done.. it's passed to the system instantly as you click and rolls/calculations are already done. This is why you can shoot something then the mob can run behind a rock, but still get hit by a projectile that's already been shot, but you can't continue to shoot afterwards, because he's no longer in LOS. It's turn based. I don't know how much more I gotta explain this.
After reading this, all what I can say what a BS. Some what You say is true, but some aren't.
You can't normally shoot anyting in mmorpgs without selecting target first. That is fact in normal mmorpgs. This includes area effect attacks and cone attacks. Lets ask from other players here, can You shoot in normal mmorpgs anyting without choosing some target first. Only what doesn't require targets in normal mmorpgs are team effects or around You effects. Everyting else require targets. It can be target in ground or enemy, but it's allways something.
Also You ignored the fact that shotgun in TR doesn't require target, what means the game has to calculate what enemies are in like of fire as inside the cone. That is FPS feature.
There is no point me to arguing with You if You did not even know this about mmorpgs or don't want to know the facts.
Wrong.. yet again. FPS style does not take into account objects in a cone. It takes into account objects that are effected by a physical mass called a bullet. The bullet it self has an impact upon the environment or objects within the environment. In TR this is NOT the case. You seam to not be able to comprehend it.
I already gave 1 example of a cone based spell that requires no target. There are several others in several different MMOs. You do NOT have to have a target as it will caclulate the objects with an enemy flag attatched to it. In other worse "X within X takes X at X" IT IS ALL FUCKING PREDETERMINED! Why can't you understand that.
I'm starting to think you're either ignorant and don't want to believe it or you're flat out stupid.
PBAOES/Cones/Some AOES don't need a target selected. They are all predetermined in a radius or cone range! They pre-calculate the entities.. It's hard to explain this to someone that's never done game design, but i'm doing my best.
The game is turn based.. wtf more do I need to do to help you understand this.
Here i'll go dumb speak: Gun shoot bullets. Bullets not have physical form. Bullets are pretty colors only. Damage figured when you clicky mouse to fire bullets. Delay triggered and calculated as weapon max range. Damage visually done after delay.
Is that understanble yet? If not.. you're freaken hopeless.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
After reading this, all what I can say what a BS. Some what You say is true, but some aren't.
You can't normally shoot anyting in mmorpgs without selecting target first. That is fact in normal mmorpgs. This includes area effect attacks and cone attacks. Lets ask from other players here, can You shoot in normal mmorpgs anyting without choosing some target first. Only what doesn't require targets in normal mmorpgs are team effects or around You effects. Everyting else require targets. It can be target in ground or enemy, but it's allways something.
Also You ignored the fact that shotgun in TR doesn't require target, what means the game has to calculate what enemies are in like of fire as inside the cone. That is FPS feature.
There is no point me to arguing with You if You did not even know this about mmorpgs or don't want to know the facts.
Are you a wow hater? I ask this because alot of people on mmorpg.com have a seething hatred for it and therefore know nothing about it. I do not play anymore but i assure you these spells exist, and in other mmos also. What he said about cone of cold is 100% true, if there was a 1000% true it would be that true.
And thats just the beginning, the entire statement he said was true, TR's combat system is a clever facade masking a Lineage/WOW/Auto assault combat hybrid system. Obviously all mmorpgs are one form of this or another, But to sell it as a groundbreaking combat experience is deceptive.
What made me come to this conclusion was when i realized that clicking the button to attack was just tedious and i could hold it down instead. This is actually a more simplified version of WOW's combat. Instead of using different spells with my 1-9 keys i am just changing weapons (I should probably say that i changed the default hotkeys so i could have the proper control over my abilities, using 1-5 for my guns and E,Q for my spells) or spells and holding down the button some more. Which became very boring after a while.
I will say for the first 20 levels it does a good job of sucking you in and hiding its true nature, but anyone who has played alot of mmorpgs would be familiar with how this combat system is really working.
To Lil: yea, most Beta players were just there to get a free game to play. TR has changed vastly from Beta. Most are just to stubborn to actually try it's released version.
To be completely honest, through my 4 months in the TR beta it felt like the devs paid very little attention to the comments of beta testers on the beta forums. The VERY rare dev posts felt more like advertising hype than actual feedback to the beta testers.
There was a universal consensus among the TR beta community that the game was being pushed live way too soon. Heck, I don't think we ever got to test any level 30+ content during beta.
I'll tell you why many beta tests are hesitant to drop $30 (current price) on TR to try the live version of the game. We've seen how poorly the TR devs performed during the beta (and especially the last 2 months of beta). I don't expect any miracles from these guys since they never did anything during my 4 months of beta that came close to miraculous.
I predicted at release that the initial euphoria of players would not last past the free month for most of them. Current posts on this and other TR forums are beginning to prove I was right. And seriously, I'm a TR lover not a hater. But ask me how I feel about the TR dev team and you'll get a far more negative response from me.
Sorry to say this but....are you new to understanding what beta stands for?....maybe just maybe the DEVS DID listen but didn't have much time to answer each and every persons complaint instead they choose the route to actualy fixed what was ask for fixing rather then to respond to the complaints. How else would you explain that most common things most of us complainted about in beta where fixed in beta?
You'r right ....not much was tested 30+, but that doesn't mean they wern't listening to the community...matter of fact they did listen, reason why i DID pick up the game and subbed cuase if the game was still in the same state it was in beta i wouldn't be playing the game as the game was FAR to easy to enjoy.
The way some people might feel about the DEV team is large part of people totaly new to this genre or to beta's, people seem to expect this perfect build in beta where those of us known with beta games are well aware of knowing beta IS NOT THE END PRODUCT that is or should be released but is work in progress to make the game in a better state when released. And like RG said to many beta testers did ruine part of hte game cause some are simply unaware of what beta's are and seem to feel it's a free ride on hte game.
So to make it clear...i do not mind people complaining about a game but do so from experaince of a live game and not a beta game. Learn why there are beta's and learn that you can not judge a game on it's beta state. Judge a game on it's release version...if you still don't like it feel free to write a well thought out constructive post....but make sure you actualy and REALLY play the game...meaning understand hte game and it's feature's before complaining
Ive played the beta and Subbed. As its stands now i haven't played in about two weeks and am seriously thinking of unsubbing. I'm in limbo with that gnawing question that keeps popping up now and then. "Why am i playing this game..." Its extremely structured with with heavy emphasis on quests to get anywhere "Different" to fight anything worth a damn and then to what end... whats the overall end game, why should i grind out these lvls? Whats the point.
I mean im on a one way track to the same end that every other tom dick and harry is going to reach nothing more nothing less... I kind of feel like im droning like a robot.
A few tweaks to the targeting system and per mob xp rate could help.
One tweak to the targeting system is simple yet possibly complicated to implement, that is give special damage boost if you line up a target and can hit the center of the little target reticule box. That much would brighten up the feeling of grinding and give aim skill a boost and a feeling of accomplishment per kill.
The AI is stupid as can be, they will always react and come at you the same way. The result is you kill them over and over the same way, only difference is the number of mobs they spawn in. This system leaves a gamer feeling like hes on a one way ride to no where. even if i wanted to stop the ride and get off half way, there is nothing to see.
There is no Bane world where bane live and go about their day to day lives and have issues and plan and resupply, explore or anything like that. The first 20 lvls of the game are the hallmark for the rest of your existence playing TR.
Some Gamers are happy with this type of game play that's fine, i hope they have a ton of fun playing, i mean that's the goal.
I personally am not so easily amused. I guess I'm getting too old and too jaded and harder to please.
I personally think RG has lost the magic he had when he and Origin created Ultima Online, a game where they placed you in a town in the world and said "Live like you want in virtual world that's ever changing." The storyline was the one you wrote in little books that you could leave in chests and libraries or where ever for anyone that stumbled upon it in their travels and choose to read.
Maybe he's been working with NCsoft too long... Or he's got ED... who knows.
Its his name on the title. i guess this is how he rolls, cheap side.
Yes maybe im a little too damn jaded.
Just a small edit to add, I didn't hunt mobs in UO i factioned and hunted players for 4 years. If the game wasn't dumbed down to the stage its at now and was recreated on a modern engine id still be factioning and hunting players there.
Are you a wow hater? I ask this because alot of people on mmorpg.com have a seething hatred for it and therefore know nothing about it. I do not play anymore but i assure you these spells exist, and in other mmos also. What he said about cone of cold is 100% true, if there was a 1000% true it would be that true. http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=120
And thats just the beginning, the entire statement he said was true, TR's combat system is a clever facade masking a Lineage/WOW/Auto assault combat hybrid system. Obviously all mmorpgs are one form of this or another, But to sell it as a groundbreaking combat experience is deceptive. What made me come to this conclusion was when i realized that clicking the button to attack was just tedious and i could hold it down instead. This is actually a more simplified version of WOW's combat. Instead of using different spells with my 1-9 keys i am just changing weapons (I should probably say that i changed the default hotkeys so i could have the proper control over my abilities, using 1-5 for my guns and E,Q for my spells) or spells and holding down the button some more. Which became very boring after a while. I will say for the first 20 levels it does a good job of sucking you in and hiding its true nature, but anyone who has played alot of mmorpgs would be familiar with how this combat system is really working.
Yes I have played WoW, no I don't hate WoW, just don't want to play it, too much PvP for me, even in PvE servers.
Also You example is not cone attack, it's radius attack (around You). Also it doesn't require target, because You self are the target. Read the description next time.
Is it possible do the cone effects in mmorpgs? Yes, easyly if the mmorpg keeps track what direction You character is facing. How ever many mmorpgs doesn't do that, so giving attack direction for cone requires target. So that cone attack can have direction where it's going. Most the mmorpgs doesn't use cone attacks, they use area around target attacks, because those doesn't need directions.
You don't say anything expect that You hate clicking buttons to attacks. That's nice to know, what the hell it has to do with the TR's targeting system subject?
Example go in TR and shoot a sky or tree. Can You do that in normal mmorpgs, nope because normal mmorpgs require allways target first. Is it big deal or hard to just fake the shooting to notting? Not at all, could done easyly.
So in many ways TR targeting, shooting, line of fire and cover is step forward from normal mmorpgs. So, in TR all single target weapons has this auto targeting feature. What means when You line of fire is closer enough to enemy, that target cursor jumps the nearest enemy as showing, is this You target? How ever it's not locked to it, because You can still turn the direction to some other targets. In normal mmorpgs You HAVE TO define targets before action. In TR You actions defines the targets. Can You understand the difference?
Eris0023, You seem to write with excactly same attitude and style than Krileon, maybe same person?
RPG aiming
You move cursor over the enemy anc click it to select. That is when You target is locked. You can also use many times keyboard to do same, like find nearest enemy and then use tab key to select correct one, what enemy will be You target. After the target has been selected, You do You action.
TR aiming
You target is aiming picture in middle of the screen. You line of fire is allways directly front of You, what can be changed by turning around You viewpoint with mouse. If You line of fire visual view is closer enough to some enemy, the aiming cursor will jump to enemy and point, is this You target. If You now click You mouse, action will happen to that enemy as target. If You keep You mouse button down, that target enemy is locked. You can also use tab key to confirm the locking to the target. This means if the enemy moves, You actions still happens to that enemy. You can lose target locking, if line of fire is lost, because You can't anymore see the enemy or it's too far.
FPS aiming
You have middle of You screen targeting picture or it's part of You cursor movement. You actions what You do goes allways in line of fire direction where You targeting cursor is point. There is no locking to target, but You self have to follow target with You target cursor.
Some of you really have no clue about game mechanics. There is real-time and then there is turn based. This game is turn based. Need me to explain? There is auto attack. Hold down your trigger button onto a target. The target is now locked on or targeted like a traditional MMO. Now hold attack. You are now auto attacking. The difference between the combat in TR and other MMOs? Freedom of movement. It doesn't interrupt skills or attacks. The next difference is that you have to break your finger holding down the dang attack button the entire time. Rolls are still made. Critical hits and resistance is calculated as well as miss chance on a moving target. It is the same as any damn MMO except freedom of movement.. even then a lot of other MMOs offer freedom of movement so it isn't freaken unique at all. It's just a cover-up to make something look like what it isn't. This game is going to tank like Auto Assault did. I'm losing my faith in this company very quickly..
Maybe they changed this after I played, but when I played you didn't even have to hold the attack button.
Yoo could manually shoot and aim, or you could lock a target and then run around, as long as yoor facing the target it would auto shoot.
There is auto attack. Hold down your trigger button onto a target. The target is now locked on or targeted like a traditional MMO. Now hold attack. You are now auto attacking. The difference between the combat in TR and other MMOs? Freedom of movement. It doesn't interrupt skills or attacks. The next difference is that you have to break your finger holding down the dang attack button the entire time.
Maybe they changed this after I played, but when I played you didn't even have to hold the attack button.
Yoo could manually shoot and aim, or you could lock a target and then run around, as long as yoor facing the target it would auto shoot.
Auto attack only works when You keep the attack button down, what can be You right or left mouse button.
The auto attack feature is definetly from RPG attack systems. You can also lose the target lock if enemy is out of line of fire. How ever, the target selection as aiming is what makes the TR different from normal RPG. In normal RPG You have to select the target before attacking. In TR it is part of You attacks and locking to target happens, when You attack. This of couse if You don't do locking manualy with the tab key when You line of fire is targeted to some enemy.
There is auto attack. Hold down your trigger button onto a target. The target is now locked on or targeted like a traditional MMO. Now hold attack. You are now auto attacking. The difference between the combat in TR and other MMOs? Freedom of movement. It doesn't interrupt skills or attacks. The next difference is that you have to break your finger holding down the dang attack button the entire time.
Maybe they changed this after I played, but when I played you didn't even have to hold the attack button.
Yoo could manually shoot and aim, or you could lock a target and then run around, as long as yoor facing the target it would auto shoot.
Auto attack only works when You keep the attack button down, what can be You right or left mouse button.
The auto attack feature is definetly from RPG attack systems. You can also lose the target lock if enemy is out of line of fire. How ever, the target selection as aiming is what makes the TR different from normal RPG. In normal RPG You have to select the target before attacking. In TR it is part of You attacks and locking to target happens, when You attack. This of couse if You don't do locking manualy with the tab key when You line of fire is targeted to some enemy.
You are stubbern as hell. Forget it. You just don't seam to get it. The game is turn based. That's all there is to it. There is no FPS elementals.
Also did you even read the damn spell or go to the link or better yet have you even played a mage in wow? It's a cone attack. Not an AOE. It hits anything infront of you inside the cone radius up to a specific distance. On cone skills/wpns the target is YOU! then the attack range is extended from you to a maximum. Then it's calculated in a cone outwards to that range. This is why a target is NOT needed, because the target is YOU. It's like this in almost all MMOs with cone atks.
I'm done argueing with you.. you're obviously to ignorant to know wtf you're talking about. Need I remind you -I AM A GAME DEV-.. you see why we hire customer support? We can't stand stupid crap like this from people who don't understand anything. Think whatever you want.. i'm done trying to explain it to you.
Auto attack works like any other MMO except it's a press & hold instead of a toggle. Once you attack 1 target it is then locked. Continue to hold and you continue you attack the locked target. When you release it'll unlock after the lock time you set in the options has expired. (something other MMOs don't have.. static lock is used in other MMOs.. same concept though.. you just get a choice). Targets are also lost in standard MMOs when LOS is lost. Also you can continue to have a target locked when LOS is lost in this game. Start auto attack and move behind something while holding down the button still. You'll shoot the wall, but still be locked on.
As I already explain this is not FPS. The bullets have no physical mass. They are purely particle effects. There is no physic being rendered between the gun, bullets, and objects/environment. It is turn based, which means everything is calculated and predetermined before you even see it happened.
Now we've explained this multiple times.. given you perfect real world examples.. you're ignorance is being to aggrivated me so i'm done before I say something really mean.. believe what you want. I don't care.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
Are you a wow hater? I ask this because alot of people on mmorpg.com have a seething hatred for it and therefore know nothing about it. I do not play anymore but i assure you these spells exist, and in other mmos also. What he said about cone of cold is 100% true, if there was a 1000% true it would be that true. http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=120
And thats just the beginning, the entire statement he said was true, TR's combat system is a clever facade masking a Lineage/WOW/Auto assault combat hybrid system. Obviously all mmorpgs are one form of this or another, But to sell it as a groundbreaking combat experience is deceptive. What made me come to this conclusion was when i realized that clicking the button to attack was just tedious and i could hold it down instead. This is actually a more simplified version of WOW's combat. Instead of using different spells with my 1-9 keys i am just changing weapons (I should probably say that i changed the default hotkeys so i could have the proper control over my abilities, using 1-5 for my guns and E,Q for my spells) or spells and holding down the button some more. Which became very boring after a while. I will say for the first 20 levels it does a good job of sucking you in and hiding its true nature, but anyone who has played alot of mmorpgs would be familiar with how this combat system is really working.
Yes I have played WoW, no I don't hate WoW, just don't want to play it, too much PvP for me, even in PvE servers.
Also You example is not cone attack, it's radius attack (around You). Also it doesn't require target, because You self are the target. Read the description next time.
Is it possible do the cone effects in mmorpgs? Yes, easyly if the mmorpg keeps track what direction You character is facing. How ever many mmorpgs doesn't do that, so giving attack direction for cone requires target. So that cone attack can have direction where it's going. Most the mmorpgs doesn't use cone attacks, they use area around target attacks, because those doesn't need directions.
You don't say anything expect that You hate clicking buttons to attacks. That's nice to know, what the hell it has to do with the TR's targeting system subject?
Example go in TR and shoot a sky or tree. Can You do that in normal mmorpgs, nope because normal mmorpgs require allways target first. Is it big deal or hard to just fake the shooting to notting? Not at all, could done easyly.
So in many ways TR targeting, shooting, line of fire and cover is step forward from normal mmorpgs. So, in TR all single target weapons has this auto targeting feature. What means when You line of fire is closer enough to enemy, that target cursor jumps the nearest enemy as showing, is this You target? How ever it's not locked to it, because You can still turn the direction to some other targets. In normal mmorpgs You HAVE TO define targets before action. In TR You actions defines the targets. Can You understand the difference?
Eris0023, You seem to write with excactly same attitude and style than Krileon, maybe same person?
RPG aiming
You move cursor over the enemy anc click it to select. That is when You target is locked. You can also use many times keyboard to do same, like find nearest enemy and then use tab key to select correct one, what enemy will be You target. After the target has been selected, You do You action.
TR aiming
You target is aiming picture in middle of the screen. You line of fire is allways directly front of You, what can be changed by turning around You viewpoint with mouse. If You line of fire visual view is closer enough to some enemy, the aiming cursor will jump to enemy and point, is this You target. If You now click You mouse, action will happen to that enemy as target. If You keep You mouse button down, that target enemy is locked. You can also use tab key to confirm the locking to the target. This means if the enemy moves, You actions still happens to that enemy. You can lose target locking, if line of fire is lost, because You can't anymore see the enemy or it's too far.
FPS aiming
You have middle of You screen targeting picture or it's part of You cursor movement. You actions what You do goes allways in line of fire direction where You targeting cursor is point. There is no locking to target, but You self have to follow target with You target cursor.
Did you seriously just write that CONE OF COLD is a RADIUS attack and not a CONE attack.
Are you fucking serious? READ the FUCKING WORDS you type. HOLY CRAP.
"Targets in a cone in front of the caster take x damage"
The KEY word is CONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONE
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
We are not the same person, we just so happen to know what we are talking about, and as far as the style and attitude of our writing i believe the word Informed best explains the similarities in our writing.. In addition we obviously know other games better too since you think that CONE OF COLD is a Radius Attack.
Cone does not equal Radius, Radius does not equal cone, neither of them are tetrahedryons or polyhedrons. Its a CONE OF COLD OMFG.
There are plenty of other mmorpg's that have these spells like we said before. I use the CONE of Cold example because its the easiest example to make.
We are not the same person, we just so happen to know what we are talking about, and as far as the style and attitude of our writing i believe the word Informed best explains the similarities in our writing.. In addition we obviously know other games better too since you think that CONE OF COLD is a Radius Attack. Cone does not equal Radius, Radius does not equal cone, neither of them are tetrahedryons or polyhedrons. Its a CONE OF COLD OMFG. There are plenty of other mmorpg's that have these spells like we said before. I use the CONE of Cold example because its the easiest example to make.
If it is cone attack, then it's my mistake, I'm sorry.
How ever I sayed it to be radius as that is in the links description what You posted to here.
Well i didnt mean to be dick i just tend to get frustrated with people thinking that TR is this revolutionary new combat system when its just a simplified wow clone.
I don't see anything unique about the targeting system in Tabula Rasa. There is the cover approach, however it's kind of quirky because a lot of the times your character will say he / she can't see the target when you are behind a tree, rock, or some other structure.
I don't see why cover is important currently (it's useless), because the enemy Bane can shoot you through trees, rocks, walls, etc as I've experienced in almost all times I've played. I think this may be due to the enemy locking on you and you then run into a shelter or behind a tree, etc.
Comments
So your mad because they gave you the option to play TR the way that best suits you?
This is little bit like two way street. I mean You should not be mad because there is easyer option for You and other players. How ever having easyer option for others and Your self can affect the enjoyment of You playing in negative ways too. Like why I do it hard way, if no-one else does. It's little childish, but it does affect players fun. So, in some way I do understand it, but whining about because something isn't way You expected it to be, isn't doing good to anyone.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
So your mad because they gave you the option to play TR the way that best suits you?
I'm not mad, just hugely surprised.
The game was hyped to have a groundbreaking targetting system way different then any other mmo.
Which it just hasn't.
Just got this text from a article written on november 27th 2007.http://www.viridiangames.com/blog/?p=424
"It’s an RPG, but it’s one where positioning is important, you can actually get behind cover, and you don’t roll for damage until you actually pull the trigger on your gun - there is no “auto-attack.”
This also implies attacking/targetting is different then other mmo's.
Yes, it does implicate that it's different that most mmorpgs and it is different. Also what it says there is true, just not the way You seem to expected it to be. So, You got hope it would be something different what it was and got disapointed. It's not really TR's fault is it?
The different between TR and normal RPG mmorpgs is that in TR You don't have to lock in You target as aiming, in other RPG mmorpgs You can't attack enemy without locking it.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
Some of you really have no clue about game mechanics.
There is real-time and then there is turn based.
This game is turn based. Need me to explain?
There is auto attack. Hold down your trigger button onto a target. The target is now locked on or targeted like a traditional MMO. Now hold attack. You are now auto attacking.
The difference between the combat in TR and other MMOs? Freedom of movement. It doesn't interrupt skills or attacks. The next difference is that you have to break your finger holding down the dang attack button the entire time.
Rolls are still made. Critical hits and resistance is calculated as well as miss chance on a moving target.
It is the same as any damn MMO except freedom of movement.. even then a lot of other MMOs offer freedom of movement so it isn't freaken unique at all. It's just a cover-up to make something look like what it isn't.
This game is going to tank like Auto Assault did. I'm losing my faith in this company very quickly..
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
Okey, wise guy, how You lock in target with shotgun in TR?
As You seem to know the game so well.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
Okey, wise guy, how You lock in target with shotgun in TR?
As You seem to know the game so well.
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
Yes, but how does the targeting works in those mmorpgs, when they have like shotgun effects. Can You shoot in some direction without targeting anyting and still hit enemies?
Because so far what I know, You can't do that in any normal mmorpgs. You can have cone damage effect, but You allways need target for it.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
Yes, but how does the targeting works in those mmorpgs, when they have like shotgun effects. Can You shoot in some direction without targeting anyting and still hit enemies?
Because so far what I know, You can't do that in any normal mmorpgs. You can have cone damage effect, but You allways need target for it.
Shotguns do target something. Don't you see the targeting ring? It locks onto a target and shoots in that direction and hits anything in that direction at a certain distance from the locked target. It's the same as any other MMOs cone based attacks. It's no where near real-time. Still turned based as always, but they do cleverly try to hide it I give them that.
Here's an easy test for you.. get lets say a pistol or something.. target a mob.. now move your curser off the mob and continue to shoot or hold down the button. It will still hit the "locked" target. I can give screenshots if you like.
You can also lower the lock time in the options to hide the turn based combat even more, but it's still there. They've basically combined targeting and auto attack into 1 button. If you click to target something then press lets say A as auto attack.. that's a 2 step process.. they've made it so you click to target and it begins auto-attack. Still turn based.. just trying to hide it is all they've done. This allows them you trick the players, but not have the heavy burdeon of a true FPS.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
Yes, but how does the targeting works in those mmorpgs, when they have like shotgun effects. Can You shoot in some direction without targeting anyting and still hit enemies?
Because so far what I know, You can't do that in any normal mmorpgs. You can have cone damage effect, but You allways need target for it.
Shotguns do target something. Don't you see the targeting ring? It locks onto a target and shoots in that direction and hits anything in that direction at a certain distance from the locked target. It's the same as any other MMOs cone based attacks. It's no where near real-time. Still turned based as always, but they do cleverly try to hide it I give them that.
Here's an easy test for you.. get lets say a pistol or something.. target a mob.. now move your curser off the mob and continue to shoot or hold down the button. It will still hit the "locked" target. I can give screenshots if you like.
You can also lower the lock time in the options to hide the turn based combat even more, but it's still there. They've basically combined targeting and auto attack into 1 button. If you click to target something then press lets say A as auto attack.. that's a 2 step process.. they've made it so you click to target and it begins auto-attack. Still turn based.. just trying to hide it is all they've done. This allows them you trick the players, but not have the heavy burdeon of a true FPS.
You are corrrect with pistol but wrong with shotgun. Shotgun can't be locked in TR, it has no lock even if You try to target enemy and keep mouse key down. Next time You play, look closely and try it. So, if You can shoot without actually locking at all, that is different to many mmorpgs.
How ever You are right with pistol, if You target something and do even single shot to enemy. Games makes automaticly assumption that You next target is same and starts this target following white target picture. Interesting question how ever is, how did You do the first shot without locking the target, because You can do that. In normal mmorpgs You can't shoot without locking first the target. How ever in TR You can shoot without locking, but it gets locked after the first shot. If You shoot some other target, then it change the target. Also if You keep mousee down, while enemy is in You target, You will auto shoot as long You keep mouse key down to that target. How ever even moment release in mouse, release the targets soft locking. So, in single target guns You are right.
How ever, shotgun situation does make it interesting, because it doesn't follow the normal mmorpg targeting type, actually it's more to FPS shooting. So, question is, is the engine behind the shooting actually at all like normal mmorpg or does it just feel little like it because target locks? More like game is assisting You targeting, because it would be too hard with heavy lag other ways, with single target weapons? How ever shotgun doesn' t need it, because if the direction is correct, it has wider cone damage.
What I'm trying to say, because how the shotgun works in TR and how the target locking can be done after the first shot, I believe there is actually FPS shooting system behind, but they builded this auto target follow system to help players to hit targets. My ques it is because game lag, lower end computer in customers and internet delays. Also TR seem to be calculating line of fire in the first shot to determine targets.
Test it and think about it.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
That's called cone splash damage. Several MMOs have this in the form of spells and in some cases weapons as well. Same concept.
Yes, but how does the targeting works in those mmorpgs, when they have like shotgun effects. Can You shoot in some direction without targeting anyting and still hit enemies?
Because so far what I know, You can't do that in any normal mmorpgs. You can have cone damage effect, but You allways need target for it.
Shotguns do target something. Don't you see the targeting ring? It locks onto a target and shoots in that direction and hits anything in that direction at a certain distance from the locked target. It's the same as any other MMOs cone based attacks. It's no where near real-time. Still turned based as always, but they do cleverly try to hide it I give them that.
Here's an easy test for you.. get lets say a pistol or something.. target a mob.. now move your curser off the mob and continue to shoot or hold down the button. It will still hit the "locked" target. I can give screenshots if you like.
You can also lower the lock time in the options to hide the turn based combat even more, but it's still there. They've basically combined targeting and auto attack into 1 button. If you click to target something then press lets say A as auto attack.. that's a 2 step process.. they've made it so you click to target and it begins auto-attack. Still turn based.. just trying to hide it is all they've done. This allows them you trick the players, but not have the heavy burdeon of a true FPS.
You are corrrect with pistol but wrong with shotgun. Shotgun can't be locked in TR, it has no lock even if You try to target enemy and keep mouse key down. Next time You play, look closely and try it. So, if You can shoot without actually locking at all, that is different to many mmorpgs.
How ever You are right with pistol, if You target something and do even single shot to enemy. Games makes automaticly assumption that You next target is same and starts this target following white target picture. Interesting question how ever is, how did You do the first shot without locking the target, because You can do that. In normal mmorpgs You can't shoot without locking first the target. How ever in TR You can shoot without locking, but it gets locked after the first shot. If You shoot some other target, then it change the target. Also if You keep mousee down, while enemy is in You target, You will auto shoot as long You keep mouse key down to that target. How ever even moment release in mouse, release the targets soft locking. So, in single target guns You are right.
How ever, shotgun situation does make it interesting, because it doesn't follow the normal mmorpg targeting type, actually it's more to FPS shooting. So, question is, is the engine behind the shooting actually at all like normal mmorpg or does it just feel little like it because target locks? More like game is assisting You targeting, because it would be too hard with heavy lag other ways, with single target weapons? How ever shotgun doesn' t need it, because if the direction is correct, it has wider cone damage.
What I'm trying to say, because how the shotgun works in TR, I believe there is actually FPS shooting system behind, but they builded this auto targeting system to help players to hit targets. My ques it is because game lag, lower end computer in customers and internet delays. Also TR seem to be calculating line of fire in the first shot to determine targets.
Test it and think about it.
The shotgun uses a cone radius. Technically It needs no target.. it'll simply predetermine anything inside the cone and do the damage as needed as well as the rolls. Think of it like a PBOE.. it has no target, but yet it has a target.. if that makes sense.
The game is turn based. I don't know how much more I need to explain this. It's not real time... nor will it ever be.. not with this engine.
If you've played as many MMOs as I have you'd see it in several of them. Cones don't need a target.. nor do PBAOES.. they calculate damage to any attackable object in their predetermined ranged/radius.
Cones and PBAOES are the easiest to trick being turn based, simply because you don't literally need to target something. Like lets say WOWs cone of frost. Doesn't need a target, but is basically like the shotgun. It being a spell, but the mechanics are one in the same.
There is absolutely no FPS mechanics in the game. You're seeing nothing but clever design. That's it. I am a developer. I am doing something similar. I know how it works. If it was pure FPS based 1) the code couldn't handle it and 2) plenty of FPS games would probably have larger maps. The network code in no one in hell could even handle the massive amount of physics code trying to be passed through by all the players.
When it comes to FPS style you're looking at physics calculations between the gun and the ammo it self. The ammo in the game is nothing more then a particle effect with a predetermined outcome already calculated. What this means is any mob in the cone of your shotgun instantly as you click is already damaged. Visually it hasn't happened yet, but the system already has the information. There is no time between bullet to target interaction.. there is no physical force between you and the target.. none of it is done.. it's passed to the system instantly as you click and rolls/calculations are already done. This is why you can shoot something then the mob can run behind a rock, but still get hit by a projectile that's already been shot, but you can't continue to shoot afterwards, because he's no longer in LOS. It's turn based. I don't know how much more I gotta explain this.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
After reading this, all what I can say what a BS. Some what You say is true, but some aren't.
You can't normally shoot anyting in mmorpgs without selecting target first. That is fact in normal mmorpgs. This includes area effect attacks and cone attacks. Lets ask from other players here, can You shoot in normal mmorpgs anyting without choosing some target first. Only what doesn't require targets in normal mmorpgs are team effects or around You effects. Everyting else require targets. It can be target in ground or enemy, but it's allways something.
Also You ignored the fact that shotgun in TR doesn't require target, what means the game has to calculate what enemies are in like of fire as inside the cone. That is FPS feature.
There is no point me to arguing with You if You did not even know this about mmorpgs or don't want to know the facts.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
After reading this, all what I can say what a BS. Some what You say is true, but some aren't.
You can't normally shoot anyting in mmorpgs without selecting target first. That is fact in normal mmorpgs. This includes area effect attacks and cone attacks. Lets ask from other players here, can You shoot in normal mmorpgs anyting without choosing some target first. Only what doesn't require targets in normal mmorpgs are team effects or around You effects. Everyting else require targets. It can be target in ground or enemy, but it's allways something.
Also You ignored the fact that shotgun in TR doesn't require target, what means the game has to calculate what enemies are in like of fire as inside the cone. That is FPS feature.
There is no point me to arguing with You if You did not even know this about mmorpgs or don't want to know the facts.
Wrong.. yet again. FPS style does not take into account objects in a cone. It takes into account objects that are effected by a physical mass called a bullet. The bullet it self has an impact upon the environment or objects within the environment. In TR this is NOT the case. You seam to not be able to comprehend it.I already gave 1 example of a cone based spell that requires no target. There are several others in several different MMOs. You do NOT have to have a target as it will caclulate the objects with an enemy flag attatched to it. In other worse "X within X takes X at X" IT IS ALL FUCKING PREDETERMINED! Why can't you understand that.
I'm starting to think you're either ignorant and don't want to believe it or you're flat out stupid.
PBAOES/Cones/Some AOES don't need a target selected. They are all predetermined in a radius or cone range! They pre-calculate the entities.. It's hard to explain this to someone that's never done game design, but i'm doing my best.
The game is turn based.. wtf more do I need to do to help you understand this.
Here i'll go dumb speak: Gun shoot bullets. Bullets not have physical form. Bullets are pretty colors only. Damage figured when you clicky mouse to fire bullets. Delay triggered and calculated as weapon max range. Damage visually done after delay.
Is that understanble yet? If not.. you're freaken hopeless.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
After reading this, all what I can say what a BS. Some what You say is true, but some aren't.
You can't normally shoot anyting in mmorpgs without selecting target first. That is fact in normal mmorpgs. This includes area effect attacks and cone attacks. Lets ask from other players here, can You shoot in normal mmorpgs anyting without choosing some target first. Only what doesn't require targets in normal mmorpgs are team effects or around You effects. Everyting else require targets. It can be target in ground or enemy, but it's allways something.
Also You ignored the fact that shotgun in TR doesn't require target, what means the game has to calculate what enemies are in like of fire as inside the cone. That is FPS feature.
There is no point me to arguing with You if You did not even know this about mmorpgs or don't want to know the facts.
Are you a wow hater? I ask this because alot of people on mmorpg.com have a seething hatred for it and therefore know nothing about it. I do not play anymore but i assure you these spells exist, and in other mmos also. What he said about cone of cold is 100% true, if there was a 1000% true it would be that true.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=120
And thats just the beginning, the entire statement he said was true, TR's combat system is a clever facade masking a Lineage/WOW/Auto assault combat hybrid system. Obviously all mmorpgs are one form of this or another, But to sell it as a groundbreaking combat experience is deceptive.
What made me come to this conclusion was when i realized that clicking the button to attack was just tedious and i could hold it down instead. This is actually a more simplified version of WOW's combat. Instead of using different spells with my 1-9 keys i am just changing weapons (I should probably say that i changed the default hotkeys so i could have the proper control over my abilities, using 1-5 for my guns and E,Q for my spells) or spells and holding down the button some more. Which became very boring after a while.
I will say for the first 20 levels it does a good job of sucking you in and hiding its true nature, but anyone who has played alot of mmorpgs would be familiar with how this combat system is really working.
Lick Here you could be one of the lucky 10!!!
To be completely honest, through my 4 months in the TR beta it felt like the devs paid very little attention to the comments of beta testers on the beta forums. The VERY rare dev posts felt more like advertising hype than actual feedback to the beta testers.
There was a universal consensus among the TR beta community that the game was being pushed live way too soon. Heck, I don't think we ever got to test any level 30+ content during beta.
I'll tell you why many beta tests are hesitant to drop $30 (current price) on TR to try the live version of the game. We've seen how poorly the TR devs performed during the beta (and especially the last 2 months of beta). I don't expect any miracles from these guys since they never did anything during my 4 months of beta that came close to miraculous.
I predicted at release that the initial euphoria of players would not last past the free month for most of them. Current posts on this and other TR forums are beginning to prove I was right. And seriously, I'm a TR lover not a hater. But ask me how I feel about the TR dev team and you'll get a far more negative response from me.
Sorry to say this but....are you new to understanding what beta stands for?....maybe just maybe the DEVS DID listen but didn't have much time to answer each and every persons complaint instead they choose the route to actualy fixed what was ask for fixing rather then to respond to the complaints. How else would you explain that most common things most of us complainted about in beta where fixed in beta?
You'r right ....not much was tested 30+, but that doesn't mean they wern't listening to the community...matter of fact they did listen, reason why i DID pick up the game and subbed cuase if the game was still in the same state it was in beta i wouldn't be playing the game as the game was FAR to easy to enjoy.
The way some people might feel about the DEV team is large part of people totaly new to this genre or to beta's, people seem to expect this perfect build in beta where those of us known with beta games are well aware of knowing beta IS NOT THE END PRODUCT that is or should be released but is work in progress to make the game in a better state when released. And like RG said to many beta testers did ruine part of hte game cause some are simply unaware of what beta's are and seem to feel it's a free ride on hte game.
So to make it clear...i do not mind people complaining about a game but do so from experaince of a live game and not a beta game. Learn why there are beta's and learn that you can not judge a game on it's beta state. Judge a game on it's release version...if you still don't like it feel free to write a well thought out constructive post....but make sure you actualy and REALLY play the game...meaning understand hte game and it's feature's before complaining
Ive played the beta and Subbed. As its stands now i haven't played in about two weeks and am seriously thinking of unsubbing. I'm in limbo with that gnawing question that keeps popping up now and then. "Why am i playing this game..." Its extremely structured with with heavy emphasis on quests to get anywhere "Different" to fight anything worth a damn and then to what end... whats the overall end game, why should i grind out these lvls? Whats the point.
I mean im on a one way track to the same end that every other tom dick and harry is going to reach nothing more nothing less... I kind of feel like im droning like a robot.
A few tweaks to the targeting system and per mob xp rate could help.
One tweak to the targeting system is simple yet possibly complicated to implement, that is give special damage boost if you line up a target and can hit the center of the little target reticule box. That much would brighten up the feeling of grinding and give aim skill a boost and a feeling of accomplishment per kill.
The AI is stupid as can be, they will always react and come at you the same way. The result is you kill them over and over the same way, only difference is the number of mobs they spawn in. This system leaves a gamer feeling like hes on a one way ride to no where. even if i wanted to stop the ride and get off half way, there is nothing to see.
There is no Bane world where bane live and go about their day to day lives and have issues and plan and resupply, explore or anything like that. The first 20 lvls of the game are the hallmark for the rest of your existence playing TR.
Some Gamers are happy with this type of game play that's fine, i hope they have a ton of fun playing, i mean that's the goal.
I personally am not so easily amused. I guess I'm getting too old and too jaded and harder to please.
I personally think RG has lost the magic he had when he and Origin created Ultima Online, a game where they placed you in a town in the world and said "Live like you want in virtual world that's ever changing." The storyline was the one you wrote in little books that you could leave in chests and libraries or where ever for anyone that stumbled upon it in their travels and choose to read.
Maybe he's been working with NCsoft too long... Or he's got ED... who knows.
Its his name on the title. i guess this is how he rolls, cheap side.
Yes maybe im a little too damn jaded.
Just a small edit to add, I didn't hunt mobs in UO i factioned and hunted players for 4 years. If the game wasn't dumbed down to the stage its at now and was recreated on a modern engine id still be factioning and hunting players there.
FoE Fist of the Empire
Yes I have played WoW, no I don't hate WoW, just don't want to play it, too much PvP for me, even in PvE servers.
Also You example is not cone attack, it's radius attack (around You). Also it doesn't require target, because You self are the target. Read the description next time.
Is it possible do the cone effects in mmorpgs? Yes, easyly if the mmorpg keeps track what direction You character is facing. How ever many mmorpgs doesn't do that, so giving attack direction for cone requires target. So that cone attack can have direction where it's going. Most the mmorpgs doesn't use cone attacks, they use area around target attacks, because those doesn't need directions.
You don't say anything expect that You hate clicking buttons to attacks. That's nice to know, what the hell it has to do with the TR's targeting system subject?
Example go in TR and shoot a sky or tree. Can You do that in normal mmorpgs, nope because normal mmorpgs require allways target first. Is it big deal or hard to just fake the shooting to notting? Not at all, could done easyly.
So in many ways TR targeting, shooting, line of fire and cover is step forward from normal mmorpgs. So, in TR all single target weapons has this auto targeting feature. What means when You line of fire is closer enough to enemy, that target cursor jumps the nearest enemy as showing, is this You target? How ever it's not locked to it, because You can still turn the direction to some other targets. In normal mmorpgs You HAVE TO define targets before action. In TR You actions defines the targets. Can You understand the difference?
Eris0023, You seem to write with excactly same attitude and style than Krileon, maybe same person?
RPG aiming
You move cursor over the enemy anc click it to select. That is when You target is locked. You can also use many times keyboard to do same, like find nearest enemy and then use tab key to select correct one, what enemy will be You target. After the target has been selected, You do You action.
TR aiming
You target is aiming picture in middle of the screen. You line of fire is allways directly front of You, what can be changed by turning around You viewpoint with mouse. If You line of fire visual view is closer enough to some enemy, the aiming cursor will jump to enemy and point, is this You target. If You now click You mouse, action will happen to that enemy as target. If You keep You mouse button down, that target enemy is locked. You can also use tab key to confirm the locking to the target. This means if the enemy moves, You actions still happens to that enemy. You can lose target locking, if line of fire is lost, because You can't anymore see the enemy or it's too far.
FPS aiming
You have middle of You screen targeting picture or it's part of You cursor movement. You actions what You do goes allways in line of fire direction where You targeting cursor is point. There is no locking to target, but You self have to follow target with You target cursor.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
Yoo could manually shoot and aim, or you could lock a target and then run around, as long as yoor facing the target it would auto shoot.
Maybe they changed this after I played, but when I played you didn't even have to hold the attack button.Yoo could manually shoot and aim, or you could lock a target and then run around, as long as yoor facing the target it would auto shoot.
Auto attack only works when You keep the attack button down, what can be You right or left mouse button.
The auto attack feature is definetly from RPG attack systems. You can also lose the target lock if enemy is out of line of fire. How ever, the target selection as aiming is what makes the TR different from normal RPG. In normal RPG You have to select the target before attacking. In TR it is part of You attacks and locking to target happens, when You attack. This of couse if You don't do locking manualy with the tab key when You line of fire is targeted to some enemy.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
Maybe they changed this after I played, but when I played you didn't even have to hold the attack button.Yoo could manually shoot and aim, or you could lock a target and then run around, as long as yoor facing the target it would auto shoot.
Auto attack only works when You keep the attack button down, what can be You right or left mouse button.
The auto attack feature is definetly from RPG attack systems. You can also lose the target lock if enemy is out of line of fire. How ever, the target selection as aiming is what makes the TR different from normal RPG. In normal RPG You have to select the target before attacking. In TR it is part of You attacks and locking to target happens, when You attack. This of couse if You don't do locking manualy with the tab key when You line of fire is targeted to some enemy.
You are stubbern as hell. Forget it. You just don't seam to get it. The game is turn based. That's all there is to it. There is no FPS elementals.Also did you even read the damn spell or go to the link or better yet have you even played a mage in wow? It's a cone attack. Not an AOE. It hits anything infront of you inside the cone radius up to a specific distance. On cone skills/wpns the target is YOU! then the attack range is extended from you to a maximum. Then it's calculated in a cone outwards to that range. This is why a target is NOT needed, because the target is YOU. It's like this in almost all MMOs with cone atks.
I'm done argueing with you.. you're obviously to ignorant to know wtf you're talking about. Need I remind you -I AM A GAME DEV-.. you see why we hire customer support? We can't stand stupid crap like this from people who don't understand anything. Think whatever you want.. i'm done trying to explain it to you.
Auto attack works like any other MMO except it's a press & hold instead of a toggle. Once you attack 1 target it is then locked. Continue to hold and you continue you attack the locked target. When you release it'll unlock after the lock time you set in the options has expired. (something other MMOs don't have.. static lock is used in other MMOs.. same concept though.. you just get a choice). Targets are also lost in standard MMOs when LOS is lost. Also you can continue to have a target locked when LOS is lost in this game. Start auto attack and move behind something while holding down the button still. You'll shoot the wall, but still be locked on.
As I already explain this is not FPS. The bullets have no physical mass. They are purely particle effects. There is no physic being rendered between the gun, bullets, and objects/environment. It is turn based, which means everything is calculated and predetermined before you even see it happened.
Now we've explained this multiple times.. given you perfect real world examples.. you're ignorance is being to aggrivated me so i'm done before I say something really mean.. believe what you want. I don't care.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
Yes I have played WoW, no I don't hate WoW, just don't want to play it, too much PvP for me, even in PvE servers.
Also You example is not cone attack, it's radius attack (around You). Also it doesn't require target, because You self are the target. Read the description next time.
Is it possible do the cone effects in mmorpgs? Yes, easyly if the mmorpg keeps track what direction You character is facing. How ever many mmorpgs doesn't do that, so giving attack direction for cone requires target. So that cone attack can have direction where it's going. Most the mmorpgs doesn't use cone attacks, they use area around target attacks, because those doesn't need directions.
You don't say anything expect that You hate clicking buttons to attacks. That's nice to know, what the hell it has to do with the TR's targeting system subject?
Example go in TR and shoot a sky or tree. Can You do that in normal mmorpgs, nope because normal mmorpgs require allways target first. Is it big deal or hard to just fake the shooting to notting? Not at all, could done easyly.
So in many ways TR targeting, shooting, line of fire and cover is step forward from normal mmorpgs. So, in TR all single target weapons has this auto targeting feature. What means when You line of fire is closer enough to enemy, that target cursor jumps the nearest enemy as showing, is this You target? How ever it's not locked to it, because You can still turn the direction to some other targets. In normal mmorpgs You HAVE TO define targets before action. In TR You actions defines the targets. Can You understand the difference?
Eris0023, You seem to write with excactly same attitude and style than Krileon, maybe same person?
RPG aiming
You move cursor over the enemy anc click it to select. That is when You target is locked. You can also use many times keyboard to do same, like find nearest enemy and then use tab key to select correct one, what enemy will be You target. After the target has been selected, You do You action.
TR aiming
You target is aiming picture in middle of the screen. You line of fire is allways directly front of You, what can be changed by turning around You viewpoint with mouse. If You line of fire visual view is closer enough to some enemy, the aiming cursor will jump to enemy and point, is this You target. If You now click You mouse, action will happen to that enemy as target. If You keep You mouse button down, that target enemy is locked. You can also use tab key to confirm the locking to the target. This means if the enemy moves, You actions still happens to that enemy. You can lose target locking, if line of fire is lost, because You can't anymore see the enemy or it's too far.
FPS aiming
You have middle of You screen targeting picture or it's part of You cursor movement. You actions what You do goes allways in line of fire direction where You targeting cursor is point. There is no locking to target, but You self have to follow target with You target cursor.
Did you seriously just write that CONE OF COLD is a RADIUS attack and not a CONE attack.
Are you fucking serious? READ the FUCKING WORDS you type. HOLY CRAP.
"Targets in a cone in front of the caster take x damage"
The KEY word is CONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONECONE
Lick Here you could be one of the lucky 10!!!
If by unique you actually mean crappy .......
Then yes it does.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
We are not the same person, we just so happen to know what we are talking about, and as far as the style and attitude of our writing i believe the word Informed best explains the similarities in our writing.. In addition we obviously know other games better too since you think that CONE OF COLD is a Radius Attack.
Cone does not equal Radius, Radius does not equal cone, neither of them are tetrahedryons or polyhedrons. Its a CONE OF COLD OMFG.
There are plenty of other mmorpg's that have these spells like we said before. I use the CONE of Cold example because its the easiest example to make.
Lick Here you could be one of the lucky 10!!!
How ever I sayed it to be radius as that is in the links description what You posted to here.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
Well i didnt mean to be dick i just tend to get frustrated with people thinking that TR is this revolutionary new combat system when its just a simplified wow clone.
Lick Here you could be one of the lucky 10!!!
I don't see anything unique about the targeting system in Tabula Rasa. There is the cover approach, however it's kind of quirky because a lot of the times your character will say he / she can't see the target when you are behind a tree, rock, or some other structure.
I don't see why cover is important currently (it's useless), because the enemy Bane can shoot you through trees, rocks, walls, etc as I've experienced in almost all times I've played. I think this may be due to the enemy locking on you and you then run into a shelter or behind a tree, etc.
Eve-Online, EQ2, DnL, SWG (Dead), Guild Wars, Anarchy Online, EQ, DAoC, Planet Side, WoW, LOTR, Tabula Rasa.