What you see in the current screen shots is a lot likely to be what you will get for graphics. The graphics look fine so far and who cares if a weaker machine can run them. If you just want a pretty game to look at then go play a Korean MMO. Look at those characters in WAR. I dont think this game should be focused on graphics. It needs to focus on gameplay.
It's not about "what YOU want" or "what I want". It's about "what will give us that 9 million subscriber base". Well 9 million people arent running 2 thousand dollar epic graphic machines. I think your desire for people to -have- to upgrade their system for the game is kind of petty. You should instead, hope that the game succeeds and not care how it succeeds.
Well said. And on that note, if you want a visually stunning game that completely bogs down your beast of a machine then play Vanguard. Just goes to prove that looks aren't everything in games:)
What you see in the current screen shots is a lot likely to be what you will get for graphics. The graphics look fine so far and who cares if a weaker machine can run them. If you just want a pretty game to look at then go play a Korean MMO. Look at those characters in WAR. I dont think this game should be focused on graphics. It needs to focus on gameplay.
It's not about "what YOU want" or "what I want". It's about "what will give us that 9 million subscriber base". Well 9 million people arent running 2 thousand dollar epic graphic machines. I think your desire for people to -have- to upgrade their system for the game is kind of petty. You should instead, hope that the game succeeds and not care how it succeeds.
It's not petty for a person to want a game to use today's technology in a game my friend, that's common sense. As I said before and said again who wants to play a game on low settings for the next 3 years (that's just ignorant).
A lot of you I here that are posting without reading through the posts seem to be stuck on the systems you are running WOW with (again, nothing wrong with that) but I can guarantee you this and you can test this if you think I am full of it. Running a game with even 10 people on it pvping with a four year old system will have big issues due to a outdated processor, graphics card and only 256-512mb of memory.
Hell, with the min specs I gave for what WOW recommends you can't even run Guild Wars on that and that game is older than WOW (heck she has a hard time with DAoC and we know what their graphics look like).
Oh yeah, until you find me facts that say all 9 million people in WOW are on 4yr systems let me know, I just gave that as a example because my friend's system is in that category (her bf has a uber quadcore $5k machine).
Originally posted by Stellos
Well said. And on that note, if you want a visually stunning game that completely bogs down your beast of a machine then play Vanguard. Just goes to prove that looks aren't everything in games:)
Vanguard's problems usually was not due to a person's computer it was the botched up kindergarden code they used to make the game and a very..very unstable client (due to Sigil's incompetance). That is one reason SOE has to redesign the entire world "starting with Khal".
You can make a breathtaking/stunning game with out the problems of dropped servers, hitching and CTDs if you know what your doing (according to Deathbunny the Koreans have).
I'm fully happy with the way graphics are going in Warhammer and I know for a fact that people who are running "just getting by systems" will have to upgrade something in order to run the game (won't see many e-machines with the stats I listed playing in this game)
Performance might be one of the biggest issues in the competition between WAR and AoC (the two biggest MMORPGS to hit at the same time in awhile). I feel that the game that is able to run smoothley on the average CPU will win the subscriptions. That is one big reason for WoW's huge numbers.
Let's not forget about the coding Stellos. Unlike many games that have been out WOW has not changed their coding since launch. When you say smooth we are talking client stability because we all don't want a game crashing 24/7 while you are trying to level or collision problems where you can't target mobs.
Graphics are just a portion of a game's engine, I am talking about the game as a whole, graphics, code, client and all when it comes to technology "as I said before who wants to play Warhammer on EQ2's engine?" (other than EQ lovers).
Warhammer online should use every technology at it's disposal, acounting that it doesn't bug the game out to being unplayeable. For the devs not to add it and this is my beleif would actually cause more problems on themself (actually having people say the game sucks due to the same bugs, glitches and problems we see in today's 3-4 year old hack and slash titles).
Let's be real and face the facts here as "Deathbunny" said, it's not what we want because I am quite sure there will be a listed min/max req for this game (won't be the one I listed above) and those who don't have those specs won't be able to run the game. Looking at the graphics also, we all know it won't be as simple as WOW's (could be a plus) but won't be graphic intensive as Vanguard (would be a plus though).
Again, read beyond the first post line of this thread before posting and try to keep your emotions in check (not you persay stellos).
I'm not sure about the WoW example. To me, it was not as smooth as everyone here says it is.
Yes, I have a somewhat older system: a P4 3.0 with 2GB RAM and 7600GT graphics card. Regardless, it was sort of a ninja-machine for when WoW came out and it still went down in the FPS department here and there. So I *did* go and upgrade for WoW.... because:
Prior to this system, I had 30-second lags on entering Ironforge! I could not set it to "Follow" and go get a coffee, because the Follow would break on account of the hitchies! I had to roll a friggin' Night Elf just because their starting area was less crowded, hence less lag!
And you know, what? Pretty much all my guild had to upgrade their machines for a better performance in the end, although they had quite better systems than I did. Because in a 40-men raid or in crowded PVP it would just lag to hell and back if you did not have a solid system. What's more, even after the upgrades we all had our FPS going down to the teens quite often in crowded areas.
So, yes, if people can get to try the game, play the early levels without too much hitching and get a taster and decide they like the game, they *do* go out and buy new systems for better performance in the end.
I either played or still play pretty much every MMO out there, and excepting the highest setting in those - or Vanguard at any sort of setting that makes it look impressive - I haven't found them that much more demanding. In EQ2 or LOTRO I step just a notch down from Highest and it's all quite playable and looks beautiful.
I'm not sure about the WoW example. To me, it was not as smooth as everyone here says it is. Yes, I have a somewhat older system: a P4 3.0 with 2GB RAM and 7600GT graphics card. Regardless, it was sort of a ninja-machine for when WoW came out and it still went down in the FPS department here and there. So I *did* go and upgrade for WoW.... because: Prior to this system, I had 30-second lags on entering Ironforge! I could not set it to "Follow" and go get a coffee, because the Follow would break on account of the hitchies! I had to roll a friggin' Night Elf just because their starting area was less crowded, hence less lag! And you know, what? Pretty much all my guild had to upgrade their machines for a better performance in the end, although they had quite better systems than I did. Because in a 40-men raid or in crowded PVP it would just lag to hell and back if you did not have a solid system. What's more, even after the upgrades we all had our FPS going down to the teens quite often in crowded areas. So, yes, if people can get to try the game, play the early levels without too much hitching and get a taster and decide they like the game, they *do* go out and buy new systems for better performance in the end. I either played or still play pretty much every MMO out there, and excepting the highest setting in those - or Vanguard at any sort of setting that makes it look impressive - I haven't found them that much more demanding. In EQ2 or LOTRO I step just a notch down from Highest and it's all quite playable and looks beautiful.
That's actually a decent speced machine Solarine, I know people who are playing WOW on systems with specs lower than what you listed (since it came out).
Like I said, It is a problem since you will have people sending in bug reports to the devs stating "the game did this and that" having them break their necks trying to downgrade their engine,when it was obvious, they needed to upgrade.
Originally posted by Tonev Graphics are just a portion of a game's engine, I am talking about the game as a whole, graphics, code, client and all when it comes to technology "as I said before who wants to play Warhammer on EQ2's engine?" (other than EQ lovers).Warhammer online should use every technology at it's disposal, acounting that it doesn't bug the game out to being unplayeable. For the devs not to add it and this is my beleif would actually cause more problems on themself (actually having people say the game sucks due to the same bugs, glitches and problems we see in today's 3-4 year old hack and slash titles).
There are two major issues with using "every technology at it's disposal" which are very clear.
The first is the one everyone has hitched onto here in that it will be a minority of machines that will be able to run this game. If you hang around on tech or MMO forums it is easy to think that everyone in the world is running the latest technology, but in the real world, most people will use what they have until it breaks and then buy a new one.
The second is that using all the latest technology will inevitably lead to problems as with all new technologies, not all the 'kinks' have been worked out. Using the latest coding techniques, graphics codes etc will not only raise the bar as far as hardware required to use it, but also lead to lots of glitches that will need to be ironed out.
Using all of the latest technology may lead to a great looking and smooth playing game on a high end machine, but will it sell in numbers, well that is a big fat 'NO'! Compatability and scaleability are the two biggest watchwords with MMO's as you are trying to reach a sustained mass market and not a one off niche sale.
Wow may not look the best, it may not be the icing on the cake for everyone in playability, but it is accessible and pretty much bug free on the whole with very little downtime and that is what keeps people buying the game and coming back for more.
I have said it before, but it bears repeating, EA will not put up with this game selling less than 1Mill units and they will do whatever it takes to reach that, so i would predict some pandering to the mass market and that will include lower end users.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I'm not sure about the WoW example. To me, it was not as smooth as everyone here says it is. Yes, I have a somewhat older system: a P4 3.0 with 2GB RAM and 7600GT graphics card. Regardless, it was sort of a ninja-machine for when WoW came out and it still went down in the FPS department here and there. So I *did* go and upgrade for WoW.... because: Prior to this system, I had 30-second lags on entering Ironforge! I could not set it to "Follow" and go get a coffee, because the Follow would break on account of the hitchies! I had to roll a friggin' Night Elf just because their starting area was less crowded, hence less lag! And you know, what? Pretty much all my guild had to upgrade their machines for a better performance in the end, although they had quite better systems than I did. Because in a 40-men raid or in crowded PVP it would just lag to hell and back if you did not have a solid system. What's more, even after the upgrades we all had our FPS going down to the teens quite often in crowded areas. So, yes, if people can get to try the game, play the early levels without too much hitching and get a taster and decide they like the game, they *do* go out and buy new systems for better performance in the end. I either played or still play pretty much every MMO out there, and excepting the highest setting in those - or Vanguard at any sort of setting that makes it look impressive - I haven't found them that much more demanding. In EQ2 or LOTRO I step just a notch down from Highest and it's all quite playable and looks beautiful.
That's actually a decent speced machine Solarine, I know people who are playing WOW on systems with specs lower than what you listed (since it came out).
Like I said, It is a problem since you will have people sending in bug reports to the devs stating "the game did this and that" having them break their necks trying to downgrade their engine,when it was obvious, they needed to upgrade.
True.
My main point was: If a game shows me stuff I like, I'll go ahead and upgrade for it - as long as it's not a really badly-coded piece of junk that runs like crap on new systems even years later (remember that NASCAR game from the 90s? Did not perform well on the newest systems even after 2-3 years!).... The trick is not entirely denying playability to the players, but establishing that they can benefit handsomely from an upgrade. That's what WoW did for a lot of my guildies back then. That's what SWG had done for a lot of people I know. And I'm guessing that's what Vanguard did for some, only to later disappoint in terms of performance (in the first montths, at least)...
I look at it this way: the fact that my system cannot handle a game well usually means an upgrade is already looming on the horizon. If I have the budget, it's highly probable I'm gonna spend that money in a few months' time, because let's face it, I've been an avid PC gamer for nearly 20 years now and love keeping at it. So I might as well go ahead and upgrade right then and there, when I'm excited about a new game I'm looking to play long-term (again, given I have the budget for it at all).
Now, I know the devs would really like to get people from WOW over to Warhammer to play the game but it is still my beleif that their was a number of factors about that games design that made it where it had so many people subscribed to it. One of the biggest I have found, since my son's friends and my own are running the game on $500 systems was the game in itself was not a resource hog. Upon playing the game (even on extreme settings) could surf the net and be running a raid instance with about 20ish odd people on the screen without so much of a fan popping on. In Warhammer, I hope the scenario I just gave above is not the case in the game itself, while I'm sure there are those who will continue to stick with WOW because the game will not play like it, there will be those who move from WOW with the same cruddy $500 systems expecting the game to play the same way (one of my buddies said he was only upgrading his video card in his sytem to run it). My hopes in Warhammer is that the developer don't downgrade on the pixels and the world itself in order to accomodate people that are running these piece of crap systems and forces them out their e-machine box for once (EQ2 and Vanguard did). Now mind you, I don't want it where you have to have a system from the pentagon to run the game as in Vanguard's case but have it where the people who do upgrade to dx10 and duo quad core systems actually see a differance at the extreme setting. For those of you that know what I am getting at with this post I'll give you an example. I have a buddy who runs WOW on a e-machine T3644 model and she can do so on the highest settings (she upgraded her ram to 1 gig ). Now on Thanksgiving, she brought her game to my house while visiting because they had some event going on that she didn't wanna miss. while my rig is extremely better than hers (duo core 6300 chip, 2 gigs of memory and a 7900GTX NVIDIA card) even when the settings were on extreme (highest everything) there was still no differance (other than performance in crowded areas) in graphics (the turd graphics pretty much went to polished turd graphics). My fear is this, with the upcoming of Warhammer and lower end system users getting into beta will the developers catering and twinking the game to run these same type systems on do a diservice to those who have upgraded to today's technology? It is my hopes that, when this game hits store shelves all those people running e-machine systems have to upgrade other than a video card and a gig of ram to run this game (at least a $1200 system) and find it a crying shame if they didn't need to. What do you here think about this?
I hope they do. If the programming is right you can get alot of good graphics in a game and still run on older machines. The last machine I bought was a decent laptop by laptop standards, but suck by desktop standards. I bought it because of my job and cant really afford to even build myself a good $1000 desktop. So if they make WAR with LOTRO style requirements I guess I will just have to deal with major computer lagg in populated areas :P
I myself just got a new comp not because of WAR because my other one fried I know my old one would have run it but now i know i can. I will say though i agree with who plays a MMO for graphics sure i don t want stick men running around but it s the gameplay for me anyways that matters. To not play a game because it doesn t llok as good as another to me doesn t make sense but for each their own i guess.
If they want this game to be popular then yeah they better cater to people with older computers such as 2-3 years old. This isn't any NextGEN MMO game here so why even mess with the idea of not catering to all kinds of computers. The more computers the game can play on the more of a chance there is to gain a subscription.
Comments
Well said. And on that note, if you want a visually stunning game that completely bogs down your beast of a machine then play Vanguard. Just goes to prove that looks aren't everything in games:)
It's not petty for a person to want a game to use today's technology in a game my friend, that's common sense. As I said before and said again who wants to play a game on low settings for the next 3 years (that's just ignorant).
A lot of you I here that are posting without reading through the posts seem to be stuck on the systems you are running WOW with (again, nothing wrong with that) but I can guarantee you this and you can test this if you think I am full of it. Running a game with even 10 people on it pvping with a four year old system will have big issues due to a outdated processor, graphics card and only 256-512mb of memory.
Hell, with the min specs I gave for what WOW recommends you can't even run Guild Wars on that and that game is older than WOW (heck she has a hard time with DAoC and we know what their graphics look like).
Oh yeah, until you find me facts that say all 9 million people in WOW are on 4yr systems let me know, I just gave that as a example because my friend's system is in that category (her bf has a uber quadcore $5k machine).
Vanguard's problems usually was not due to a person's computer it was the botched up kindergarden code they used to make the game and a very..very unstable client (due to Sigil's incompetance). That is one reason SOE has to redesign the entire world "starting with Khal".
You can make a breathtaking/stunning game with out the problems of dropped servers, hitching and CTDs if you know what your doing (according to Deathbunny the Koreans have).
I'm fully happy with the way graphics are going in Warhammer and I know for a fact that people who are running "just getting by systems" will have to upgrade something in order to run the game (won't see many e-machines with the stats I listed playing in this game)
Put in my order for the top of the line end all machine.
Just so Tonev can turn the settings all the way up.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Let's not forget about the coding Stellos. Unlike many games that have been out WOW has not changed their coding since launch. When you say smooth we are talking client stability because we all don't want a game crashing 24/7 while you are trying to level or collision problems where you can't target mobs.
Graphics are just a portion of a game's engine, I am talking about the game as a whole, graphics, code, client and all when it comes to technology "as I said before who wants to play Warhammer on EQ2's engine?" (other than EQ lovers).
Warhammer online should use every technology at it's disposal, acounting that it doesn't bug the game out to being unplayeable. For the devs not to add it and this is my beleif would actually cause more problems on themself (actually having people say the game sucks due to the same bugs, glitches and problems we see in today's 3-4 year old hack and slash titles).
Let's be real and face the facts here as "Deathbunny" said, it's not what we want because I am quite sure there will be a listed min/max req for this game (won't be the one I listed above) and those who don't have those specs won't be able to run the game. Looking at the graphics also, we all know it won't be as simple as WOW's (could be a plus) but won't be graphic intensive as Vanguard (would be a plus though).
Again, read beyond the first post line of this thread before posting and try to keep your emotions in check (not you persay stellos).
I'm not sure about the WoW example. To me, it was not as smooth as everyone here says it is.
Yes, I have a somewhat older system: a P4 3.0 with 2GB RAM and 7600GT graphics card. Regardless, it was sort of a ninja-machine for when WoW came out and it still went down in the FPS department here and there. So I *did* go and upgrade for WoW.... because:
Prior to this system, I had 30-second lags on entering Ironforge! I could not set it to "Follow" and go get a coffee, because the Follow would break on account of the hitchies! I had to roll a friggin' Night Elf just because their starting area was less crowded, hence less lag!
And you know, what? Pretty much all my guild had to upgrade their machines for a better performance in the end, although they had quite better systems than I did. Because in a 40-men raid or in crowded PVP it would just lag to hell and back if you did not have a solid system. What's more, even after the upgrades we all had our FPS going down to the teens quite often in crowded areas.
So, yes, if people can get to try the game, play the early levels without too much hitching and get a taster and decide they like the game, they *do* go out and buy new systems for better performance in the end.
I either played or still play pretty much every MMO out there, and excepting the highest setting in those - or Vanguard at any sort of setting that makes it look impressive - I haven't found them that much more demanding. In EQ2 or LOTRO I step just a notch down from Highest and it's all quite playable and looks beautiful.
That's actually a decent speced machine Solarine, I know people who are playing WOW on systems with specs lower than what you listed (since it came out).
Like I said, It is a problem since you will have people sending in bug reports to the devs stating "the game did this and that" having them break their necks trying to downgrade their engine,when it was obvious, they needed to upgrade.
Let me just say you do not need a super computer to run it. My old rig can still run it, and run it well.
I hate you.
-iCeh
On that note, I bet your system is better than this one e-machine T3644 (add 1 gig of Ram)
On that note, I bet your system is better than this one e-machine T3644 (add 1 gig of Ram)
It is true, that rig is lower than what I have. I wrote in another thread, all I did was open the client and it says that I am on it 24/7.
There are two major issues with using "every technology at it's disposal" which are very clear.
The first is the one everyone has hitched onto here in that it will be a minority of machines that will be able to run this game. If you hang around on tech or MMO forums it is easy to think that everyone in the world is running the latest technology, but in the real world, most people will use what they have until it breaks and then buy a new one.
The second is that using all the latest technology will inevitably lead to problems as with all new technologies, not all the 'kinks' have been worked out. Using the latest coding techniques, graphics codes etc will not only raise the bar as far as hardware required to use it, but also lead to lots of glitches that will need to be ironed out.
Using all of the latest technology may lead to a great looking and smooth playing game on a high end machine, but will it sell in numbers, well that is a big fat 'NO'! Compatability and scaleability are the two biggest watchwords with MMO's as you are trying to reach a sustained mass market and not a one off niche sale.
Wow may not look the best, it may not be the icing on the cake for everyone in playability, but it is accessible and pretty much bug free on the whole with very little downtime and that is what keeps people buying the game and coming back for more.
I have said it before, but it bears repeating, EA will not put up with this game selling less than 1Mill units and they will do whatever it takes to reach that, so i would predict some pandering to the mass market and that will include lower end users.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
The Graphics in this game wont be special, because its focus is PVP.
Besides who plays mmos for Graphics?
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
That's actually a decent speced machine Solarine, I know people who are playing WOW on systems with specs lower than what you listed (since it came out).
Like I said, It is a problem since you will have people sending in bug reports to the devs stating "the game did this and that" having them break their necks trying to downgrade their engine,when it was obvious, they needed to upgrade.
True.
My main point was: If a game shows me stuff I like, I'll go ahead and upgrade for it - as long as it's not a really badly-coded piece of junk that runs like crap on new systems even years later (remember that NASCAR game from the 90s? Did not perform well on the newest systems even after 2-3 years!).... The trick is not entirely denying playability to the players, but establishing that they can benefit handsomely from an upgrade. That's what WoW did for a lot of my guildies back then. That's what SWG had done for a lot of people I know. And I'm guessing that's what Vanguard did for some, only to later disappoint in terms of performance (in the first montths, at least)...
I look at it this way: the fact that my system cannot handle a game well usually means an upgrade is already looming on the horizon. If I have the budget, it's highly probable I'm gonna spend that money in a few months' time, because let's face it, I've been an avid PC gamer for nearly 20 years now and love keeping at it.
So I might as well go ahead and upgrade right then and there, when I'm excited about a new game I'm looking to play long-term (again, given I have the budget for it at all).
I hope they do. If the programming is right you can get alot of good graphics in a game and still run on older machines. The last machine I bought was a decent laptop by laptop standards, but suck by desktop standards. I bought it because of my job and cant really afford to even build myself a good $1000 desktop. So if they make WAR with LOTRO style requirements I guess I will just have to deal with major computer lagg in populated areas :P
I myself just got a new comp not because of WAR because my other one fried
I know my old one would have run it but now i know i can. I will say though i agree with who plays a MMO for graphics sure i don t want stick men running around but it s the gameplay for me anyways that matters. To not play a game because it doesn t llok as good as another to me doesn t make sense but for each their own i guess.
If they want this game to be popular then yeah they better cater to people with older computers such as 2-3 years old. This isn't any NextGEN MMO game here so why even mess with the idea of not catering to all kinds of computers. The more computers the game can play on the more of a chance there is to gain a subscription.