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Selfishness of society reflected in mmo's? ;)
Violette
Member UncommonPosts: 119
I promise this is the last thread I'm making today.
I'm just wondering what you people here think about this.
Some people in today's day and age are disturbed by the path society is heading down.
Nowadays it's more and more about "me". We are also more often afflicted with Affluenza: definition:
"People who are said to be affected by Affluenza typically find that the very economic success they have been so vigorously chasing ends up leaving them feeling unfulfilled and wishing for yet more wealth, sometimes addicted to their economic pursuits."
^ Doesn't that sound like the very purpose of most Mmo's today?
It's just interesting that without this pursuit, the average mmo gamer would no longer have fun.
Comments
It's interesting that you mention that because I am starting to see a disturbing trend in MMO's of which I myself am becoming a victim of. It does seem like in MMO's today it's no longer about the adventure, or hanging out with buddies in a campfire and telling stories about how you escaped the ring wraiths, it seems like it's no longer about going to an inn with buddies, drink some ale and talk about your biggest bounty of the day. Heck I remember during the first days of EQ, one of my goals was to become a lonewolf explorer that every now and then would inhabit inns to talk about my journey to any one willing to buy me an ale and lend an ear.
We no longer ROLEPLAY, but instead, as soon as we log our character in, it becomes a mad dash to highest level, get the most uber loot/gear and get the most money.
It's a shame really, because back then, RPing wasn't so uncommon in EQ, but now a days, even the mention of RPing gets you snickers and insults from anyone nearby, you're immediately labeled "noob", "dork", "geek" etc. etc. We've basically stopped having fun and made our MMO time into a second job. Makes me wish there was no such things as levels to race to. Just an expansive world with players who have unique skills and characteristics to join up with.
Ah I agree with that previous post. I also roleplay in all of the mmorpg games I have played. I find it becoming more and more difficult as time has progressed over the last 5 yrs. In Wow it was neigh inpossible to even roleplay, even on the roleplay servers without ridicule or just plain annoying people breaking my immersive atmosphere with their chuck norris antecdotes etc.
It really has devolved in my opinion over the last several years especially. I don't know if its the influx of non-mmo players brought in, in huge numbers from the wow phenomenon or just me getting older and crotchety. I have been playing as well since the old EQ, albeit not much there, and really got heavy into it during SWG. By the time EQ2 rolled out I had macros for my spell casting which included Aranic mumblings of lost magic from my wizard, to the brutal bad mouth of a barbarians tongue lashing (in scottish dialect).
Even voice/Ventrillo/TS has not escaped my roleplay escapades as I have been known to jump into my dwarf or maiden voice with the help of a handy voice morpher so as to not to break the immersian. I just feel most can't be bothered nowadays to go to that level, which I only hold myself to and not others. Roleplay to me isn't the thee's and thou's but the interaction your character would be having with others, however it may be. In swg my wookiee smuggler would hardly ever speak and was known to just start a brawl(duel) for no reason, and scream horrifically even when others could understand wookiee.
I am taking it even further as I now develop these games and hope to help the roleplay community not only through GM'g events, but providing the tools to make for better roleplay within game. Having character customization being the highest priority but things like naming conventions and even thwarting hecklers with bad karma for horrid roleplay while promoting it in the roleplay community. I feel we must take back the genre for the good of all, chuck norris has no place in the future, he would long be dead and buried, I hope in my rendition of a mmorpg.
see below
http://www.forceofarms.com/index.php
Yes, I'm sure society is a part of the the problem but I'd say most of it is from the way the devs designed the game...
If you look at how most mmo's work it is obvious that it's always directed toward the individual player, people just run around the map as if the other players don't exist. If anything the other players are a nuisance for being in the way... There's never an advantage to helping other people; this is what creates the environment where the higher players insult "n00bs" instead of taking the time to help them. If a player is a far lower level then you then they will never be able to do anything good for you, can't really help in battle, can't give you anything that'd be better then what you already have....
If the devs create the game right they could make a game world where the players interact more, where players actually help each other instead of doing mindless tasks for every NPC they meet... A world that a person doesn't merely walk through day after day, but can actually be able to change the world for the better...
Selfishness? NO. www.youtube.com/watch
Greed, Immorality, Self-Dealing are different. Perhaps.
[You should watch the speech in the video; it is worth it.]
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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
I think I met you in EQ. I bought you an ale and you told me a story about, you, your brother, and a sheep. That was a crazy story.
I don't believe the issue was the increase of non-mmo players in games like WoW. It was the increase of non-RPG players. I have friends who only played sports games or FPS and then went straight into playing a game like WoW and thats how you end up with that sort of mentality.
I started way back with PnP games single player and then multiplayer and then finally massively multiplayer RPGs. Seriously I'd rather spend a friday night with 6 friends playing DnD than spend part of a night with 20+ friends raiding some dungeon in a game. It's just so different. But the players who never experienced the full effect of going slow and having a detailed game jump into a game like WoW and play it like they are playing Madden rushing towards the endzone.
-MD
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Quite true, I also played DnD and other PnP games all the way back to Chainmail...hehe yeah showing my age. I must just be getting old I guess.
http://www.forceofarms.com/index.php
Such a game already exists, its called EVE, and yes, some people role play quite heavily in it.
No quests, no two players alike, and a huge world to interact in.
Otherwise, games tend to reflect our darker side, as there are no real consequences we have to answer for. We can be as selfish as we like.... or as noble.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I always pursue my self interest, but I don't power level nor try to get the best loot. I don't really go out of my way to help others nor do I bother them.
I really think how you play depends upon your attitude toward the game. Many people see them as just games, where there are winners losers and high scores, they are the power levelers and raiders. Then there are those that see them as some sort of alternate wrld or a story like roleplayers.
I always approuch games as I do movies, they are an experience, so I always try to see as much as I can, though I have never roleplayed, then again I never grew up playing PnP games, too young, I grew up with Zelda and other adventure games, so makes sense.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
We live in a society of self entitlement propaganda and Emo music, we are not the first society to be spoiled selfish brats, we just have yet to experience the cosmic kick to the balls that the previous failed empires got. It will happen sooner or later.
You do realize by believing him you become the Howard Roark's defined parasite, ironic don't you think. Most will not think but be lured by some flashy words. Of course, please go on
Yes *sigh* Never mind the future of the environment (and I suspect gamers don't care about that, but more on that later)... the danger of food or fresh water shortage....
Well said, T0nyd. Well, partially. I don't mind the gamey aspect of MMOs, but yes, most of PvE is a waste of time, especially when it's forced so PvPers like myself can't play without going through the boring treadmill. I paid $50 for WoW, but I never got to play Alterac Valley. Meanwhile, if I pick up a copy of HL2, I can hop into Counterstrike Source immediately. No grind required!
«I don't mind the gamey aspect of MMOs, but yes, most of PvE is a waste of time, especially when it's forced so PvPers like myself can't play without going through the boring treadmill. I paid $50 for WoW, but I never got to play Alterac Valley. Meanwhile, if I pick up a copy of HL2, I can hop into Counterstrike Source immediately. No grind required!»
I do understand and somewhat agree with what you are saying. However, there are mmos like Guild Wars, which are built towards PvP and have a certain structure that even allows you start off PvPing. There are others like the new Tabula Rasa, that don't *force* you to replay the entire game just to have a high level char. What you say is pretty valid but... well, that's WoW, not every MMO and I do believe you should play the pve part at least once, in these kind of games. Anyway, leveling from 1-60 (for the first time) in WoW was a lot of fun. Clearly more fun than the endgame
I have played a lot of other games. However, they all have the same boring introductory, "This is how to play the game. Just to make sure you understand, here's 2 skills total. Now go kill 50 monsters and we'll teach you a third to use!" To my understanding WoW has one of the least painful grinds. Which, considering I stopped playing at level 25, means I likely won't like most other MMORPGs. Eve seems decent, and I should probably give it another try now that they've added in some updates.
I still have fun analyzing then beating a tough encounter, but it is almost entirely a solo thing. When in groups it is rare that anyone is willing to stop to talk about how we should approach a tough battle.
But after an encounter is beaten I cannot be satisfied just beating it again and again, without some good possibility of item gain. Thats not selfish, its just a matter of finding something of interest.
Okay, as probably one the few Randians (Objectivists) on MMORPG.com, I'd like to take the time to explain a distinction between being selfish as in self-interested and selfish as in being a hedonist. Most players on MMOs are selfish in the latter sense because developers all too often cater to them. Why? Because these are the kinds of people that buy things, even if it means putting the electric bill on the credit card for six months. They're not very bright, they're easy to please (sometimes), and they buy *big*. Now, selfish people in the former sense (the Randian/Lockean conceptions) as in self-interested are pretty much the best people you want in an MMO for the long term.
They're eager to help other players because they're interested in the concept of the MMO (selfish enough to want to socialize through the gameplay and etc), a few get heavy into the RP and podcasting (translation: *FREE PROMOTIONAL MATERIAL*), and are the first to /bug any flaw in the game. In short, they're the best players to play with in all games.
The problem is that the selfish (as in hedonistic) players catered to as I stated before. They're easy with regards to money, and have no compunction in letting lots of money go in a short amount of time. But they have a flaw, they tend to be the most easily upset players on the planet. These are the kids on the forums that scream for features that don't make sense in the given MMO or for modifications to features in a such a way that makes it lopsided overall (see NGE as an example of this). The other selfish (as in self-interested) players, on the other hand, are frugal, which is why developers don't cater to them too much, but some developers do appreciate them because they're the ones that stick with a game for the long haul (I'm sure even Turbine still appreciates the AC2 players who stuck with the game to the last month of billing, since money is money...). In the end, if there's anything that can be done about it, I'm all ears. But remember, the selfish (hedonistic) players out number the other selfish (self-interested) players most of the time.
-- Brede
Oooh I tip my hat to you sir, that link to the fountainhead speech was awesome and has inspired me to try and find the movie
I wouldn't label myself as an objectivist, but I am fairly aware of the philosophy and I think there are some good bits in it. There definitely is a difference in hedonism and rational self-interest. Before reading Rand's works, I always thought to myself, "What's so wrong with being selfish? There are consequences to actions and beating up a person for the immediate candy bar in that person's posession is not in my interests for the long term. But acting towards my own interests is fine." The connotations with being selfish made trying to explain this philosophy difficult, but Rand's works at least helped me in that regards.
Anyway, a lot of games do require charity to some extent, and this is partly what makes them so horrible. In FFXI, I had a friend power level me and feed some some nice gear to help with the levelling. And when he stopped the game felt awful. In Eve, someone gave me a nice chunk of change that helped me get my first frigate, destroyer, and all of the skillbooks I wanted. That was very kind of them and it helped me get my head start in the game. Power levelling helps a lot and makes new players enjoy the game more. Yet, what does the power leveller get out of it? Well, unless the power levelee is an alt of someone with a lot of cash to pay the power leveller, nothing. More games need to work around this (CoX's sidekick system) or find some alternative to the hugely vertical levelling system.
Oooh I tip my hat to you sir, that link to the fountainhead speech was awesome and has inspired me to try and find the movie
(beams)
You should also read Atlas Shrugged. We are at a point right now where we must surrender our privacy rights for the sake of 1) protecting children and/or 2) fighting terrorism. Our rights our inalienable; we cannot even take them away if we wanted to. It is the duty and role of government to protect these rights.
The USA was founded upon the principle of working hard, earning, and keeping what you earn for yourself and however you see fit. I never thought in my lifetime I would have to be mentioning these things as if we were losing our rights or as if they are already lost.
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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Oooh I tip my hat to you sir, that link to the fountainhead speech was awesome and has inspired me to try and find the movie
(beams)
You should also read Atlas Shrugged. We are at a point right now where we must surrender our privacy rights for the sake of 1) protecting children and/or 2) fighting terrorism. Our rights our inalienable; we cannot even take them away if we wanted to. It is the duty and role of government to protect these rights.
The USA was founded upon the principle of working hard, earning, and keeping what you earn for yourself and however you see fit. I never thought in my lifetime I would have to be mentioning these things as if we were losing our rights or as if they are already lost.
Will do
it will make a good christmas season read 
(I usually try to find philosophical and political books to read every now and then during the X-mas season)
Objectivism is not all that it's cracked up to be when you put it into action in the real world. In fact objectivists would probably be see nothing wrong with what the OP is complaining about.
If you were never taxed there would be no army, no police force, no fire fighters, no roads, no regulations designed to keep you safe from faulty products or contaminated food, no internet etc....
Folks seem to forget that even men like Adam Smith the father of capitalism realized the need and role for government and the services it can provide. Also your rights only go so far up to the point were they do not interfere with the rights of others. The author Ayn Rand was the person she was because she grew up in one extreme ( communist Russia ) and hated it.
Thus Ayn moved to the polar opposite extreme in with her views. Some of her ideas are good ideas and others are only good on paper because her views are ridge, cold and in most cases unattainable just like her storybook world and characters. Rather then blowing up a building because of a breach on contract why not instead take those people to court over said breach of contract? Her views like her novels tend toward the extreme side and generally only allow for one view point.
I wonder if she would of had the same views if she had grown up in Sweden instead of Russia.