MMOs are only getting better. I'm not stupid enough to believe UO or EQ are even comparable to MMOs today. Sure, the memories might SEEM better back then, mostly due to the PEOPLE playing, but the games themselves kind of sucked when you really look at it all objectively. Doom or WOlfenstein were the 1st FPSs Iand I have some amazing memories. However, they sure as hell aren't great FPSs compared to COD4 or Crysis. They're mostly pathetic by todays standards. Thats the same way I feel about UO or EQ after playing WOW. They were fun back in the day, but I couldn't tolerate the lousy UI and control, total lack of content, bugs, exploits and unbalanced game play.
Put WOW of today against EQ or UO circa '98 in front of 100 people who never touched or heard of a MMO before. Just take a guess which one they're all going to play. Those older MMO seemed great because there was nothing like it at the time. Its the same way Doom seemed amazing back then. Today it sucks. Karate Champ seemed pretty cool at the time. It blows compared to VF5.
Yea, MMO's are much more polished now, but they're also much more shallow and much less challenging. I hated the mob grind as much as the next guy, but I don't think this linear, quest based crap is the best solution. Not to mention, almost every MMO now has a class system thats so simple, even a 4 year old would have little trouble navigating through it...
I've been playing VG lately, which is more challenging then the other garbage released.
I also like to play some of the F2P games. Some of them have really really steep learning curves. No tutorial or anything. You're shoved into the game and told to go kill shit and learn on your own.. that's how I like it. I'm 20 years old.. not 12.. I don't need someone to hold my hand throughout the game. Little markers on maps and crap of where you need to go, etc.. come on.. what happened to an NPC requesting you to kill something because it hurt his little brother and ate his finger? He has no idea exactly where, but gives you a general idea/direction and off you go exploring.. everything has been simplified so anyone with 30minutes can accomplish something.. MMOs arn't fking console games.. you arn't ment to accomplish something in 30mins!
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
I don't think the MMO's are crap. I think the communities surrounding most MMO's are crap. An MMO's community inevitably decides whether a game is going to fun and around for the long haul. Even a game as popular as WOW has become boring and tedious at end game due to the lack of great community. The scariest thing for me as I look at the current and next batch of MMO's is that they all seem to be leaning towards more solo gameplay. I think the MMO experience is just drained of its life when someone can go from level 1 to max level without playing in a party or group the majority of the time. I might as well be playing a single player rpg at that point. This is the game dynamic that I feel messes up the community(which is the most important) aspect of MMO's.
Unfortunately we are probably going to be stuck with the current format and style of MMO's until Blizzard releases its next big MMO. Hopefully by then Blizzard will realize that all of the new 9+ million players are used to the MMO genre now and that they can make a much more challenging game focused on group play and community.
I've been playing VG lately, which is more challenging then the other garbage released.
You and me seem to be on the same page.
MMORPG: Vanguard.
PvP, FPS: Unreal Tournament 3
RTS: Warcraft III: Frozen Throne
I liked EQ 2 a lot but it did not have that sense of a deep, wide, open, and dangerous world than Vanguard offers, and I think Vanguard needs more (a) character customization and (b) deep Questing. It should adopt ideas from EQ 1 and EQ 2, in my view.
----- WoW and fast food = commercial successes. I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Hell yeah! And what's with graphics huh?! Real MMO players use text parsers. UO screwed it all up by adding pictures. I want my artificially increased difficulty! Screw GUIs! Hell, blank out my screen at random intervals and perma kill my characters randomly. Come to my house and beat me if I even think of using a hotkey..... Man, bring back the good old days of intelligent gaming.....
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Hell yeah! And what's with graphics huh?! Real MMO players use text parsers. UO screwed it all up by adding pictures. I want my artificially increased difficulty! Screw GUIs! Hell, blank out my screen at random intervals and perma kill my characters randomly. Come to my house and beat me if I even think of using a hotkey..... Man, bring back the good old days of intelligent gaming.....
Slice it any way you want, but most newer MMO's are pretty easy and shallow. They're ultra linear and entirely focused on combat, so theres never really a question of what you should do. They're level based with segmented worlds, so theres never a question of where you should go. They're class based with a narrow spec system, so theres never a question of how to build your character. They're quest based and the quest givers have huge flashing neon signs over their heads, so theres never a question of who to talk to. They're completely static, so theres never a reaction or response to any thing you ever do in the game world...
I'm not going to say that older MMO's were perfect, because they had plenty of flaws themselves. However, what we're seeing now isn't much of an improvement...more like a trade off. You can make the game more "accessible" so thats it's easier to get into and easier to understand, but in doing so you're going to make the player that much more detached from the game world. The more you play through a UI and icons and signs and cues, the less you're actually playing IN the game world.
Slice it any way you want, but most newer MMO's are pretty easy and shallow. They're ultra linear and entirely focused on combat, so theres never really a question of what you should do. They're level based with segmented worlds, so theres never a question of where you should go. They're class based with a narrow spec system, so theres never a question of how to build your character. They're quest based and the quest givers have huge flashing neon signs over their heads, so theres never a question of who to talk to. They're completely static, so theres never a reaction or response to any thing you ever do in the game world...
I'm not going to say that older MMO's were perfect, because they had plenty of flaws themselves. However, what we're seeing now isn't much of an improvement...more like a trade off. You can make the game more "accessible" so thats it's easier to get into and easier to understand, but in doing so you're going to make the player that much more detached from the game world. The more you play through a UI and icons and signs and cues, the less you're actually playing IN the game world.
I have to agree here. My first MMORPG was Ultima Online and compared to the current most popular games right now, it had much more depth. The game gave you so many options. I mean what can you do in WoW right now? Kill things? Compare that to the game that was released in 1998 and tell me if the MMORPG market is dying or not? I think that there is a problem when a game released almost 10 years ago offers more things to do than the current top game.
Now, I cannot say that the MMORPG market is dying but it is definitely stagnating with everyone trying to follow Blizzard's formula. What the developers are failing to realze is that even if they do follow Blizzard's formula, their game will never succeed because they don't have the Warcraft universe when practically sold the game for Blizzard.
The MMOG era is not dying, only awaiting its Eisenstein.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Anytime something underground is shoved into the mainstream it gets ruined.
Yeah, like Rock n' Roll music and Film....
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
I think the problem might be in our thinking..... should an MMORPG be a lifetime investment? Maybe we should really only look to play them for 6 months to a year, enjoy what we can, and then move on to the next game?
Or even a few months....I'm playing Eve again and enjoying it....Not sure I will in 6months or wether the pull of 2008 games will drag me away.
Personally I think that players should drop the idea of playing 1 game for life. I've got 3 or 4 on hard disk now, and I will probably rotate them every so often if I get bored of them. It's only if I get into a group or guild which I want to stick with that I'll stay longer..
Hell I might even reboot WoW next year, seeing as it's easier to get to lvl 60. Theres the whole of BC I havent touched yet.
I see alot of people saying that the next 'new gen' MMO won't come for a few more years which kind of confuses me. I've only been into MMO's for about 3-4 years now, and I'm guessing those of you who say that have probably played for 6 or 7+ years, so obviously you're very familiar with what different MMO's have to offer. But my question is what do you mean when you say 'next gen' MMO? If you're someone who has played for 10+ years, you have basically seen the jyst of it. Maybe I'm just not visualizing enough but I can't see a game ever releasing from now on that is not like anything we have ever seen. Seriously, unless MMO's become virtual reality where you put a helmet on your head and control every action of your character while seeing through his eyes, what (other then the minor differences like questing or lvling) can an MMO do to make it completely unique in every way? What you have to understand is that everyday there are new faces joining the MMO scene, and to them all of this is new. WoW is new, Everquest is new... everything is new to them. So therefore people will always keep playing those games. And if companies see that people keep playing these games, they will continue to make them. Sure, they may not appeal to the average MMO veteran who would rather watch paint dry then play another lvl-based game, but who cares as long as you're making money off those newbies? I think that the only way for this so called REAL 'next gen' MMO to come out has to be from a company who has seen it all and is determined to develop a masterpiece that will blow away the minds of the veterans. But then, at the same time, this would be taking a risk, which many complanies may not want to do. The solution? Make another typical MMO with some differences. So anyways, what do you guys mean when you say the 'next gen' MMO? Like I said earlier, maybe I'm just not visualizing enough.
It can be resumed by three things :
1] Better AI, as of today the AI in MMO is the most basic you can imagine, every FPS out there have a better AI. Kinda sad for games that are supposed to be immersive and represent a "realistic" world with living character
2] Physics and environment interaction; throwing a fireball on a gobelin and burning the tree besides him, hitting that same tree with an Axe and make it fall on the gobelins group to divide them, fightning an ogre in a tavern and make all the tables and glasses fly all over the place? etc etc Same as before every FPS outhere have better physics than MMO, well in fact there is absolutely 0 physics and only very limited scripted environment interaction in the current MMO.
If you think it is impossible, think again, as said before, current MMO are "pong", without talking about virtual reality, having world wide physics and environment interaction is definitely in the realms of possiblity in a few years.
3] Rethink Game Mechanics: Pull, Aggro, Tank, Heal, Mez. Every single MMORPG on the market works like that to some degree, whether you are using a bow or a laser gun to kill your foes, it is always the same mechanics behind.
We need to completely rethink the way combat works and core mechanics in MMOG; this is of course directly tied to the AI of the enemies, and would impact the whole gameplay as a result. The combat are all the same, more or less, we need to get out of this “circle” and innovate.
It is not normal that when I try a new MMO; I know how to play it even before I launch the game, when I fight in Warhammer online, I play my character like I did in EQ1, absolutely no difference besides a few fluff things.
Physics, Environment interaction and AI are the future of MMOG, and from those things new core mechanics will appears
Take a look at how the movie industry works (or doesn't) and you'll see the video game industry following in the same footsteps.
This is a good thing to note as well. Anyone remember the whole "Project Greenlight" craze a few years ago? Where young upstarts had their chance to create mainstream movies. The movies they created were horrible, and the whole concept quickly lost popularity. So the movie industry for the most part sticks to the current (crappy) formula, and appeals to the masses so the investors get the most return on their money.
The people who put out the money to create these games have no desire to do anything else other than make more money. It's a business, pure and simple. They could care less if you "enjoy" your gaming experience. As long as they are making a profit, they consider themselves successful.
Think about it as if it was your money you were investing. If you plopped $10,000 into an investment, would you want it to be a "new" (ie. risky) prospect, or would you want to invest in something that was tried and true and gave you the best possible chance to give you the maximum amout of money back? Right now, the MMO formula that is "successful" is the "kill, loot, level" formula...put people on a never ending "grind" to make them feel like they are accomplishing something. As long as the masses pay for this "hamster wheel" formula, the investors of MMOs force the developers to create this kind of garbage.
So what does this mean for the old time gamers who seek adventure and immersion in a game? We're left hung out to dry, and are left with playing new games with about as much depth as a bowl of Cheerios.
So to the original poster, I feel your pain, believe me. Until someone figures out how to truly make the next interesting MMO (and make money off of it of course), I believe I'm fed up with the whole MMO experience as well. At least, it was a nice ride for a few years...
If you're going to use the film industry as a basis for how the gaming industry will work, then you have to look to the big 'studios' (and by this I mean the SOE, EA Blizzards etc) to see value in funding smaller projects.
Think about it. Everyone is chasing the blockbuster (WoW), but they should also be going and funding Oscar contenders which sell less, but look good industry wise.
So, theres two things which need to change.
1) Development companies need to see the value in smaller, 'quality', critically acclaimed projects
2) Development costs need to fall. You can't have Vanguard like games costing $30m, and needing 300k+ Subs to survive. You need to be able to create games (and quality ones) for say $10m, and be happy with 100-200k of subscribers (making a good return for investors and allowing post release development etc). That way, niche, and specialist quality games might get made, and we might get companies take more chances.
2) Development costs need to fall. You can't have Vanguard like games costing $30m, and needing 300k+ Subs to survive. You need to be able to create games (and quality ones) for say $10m, and be happy with 100-200k of subscribers (making a good return for investors and allowing post release development etc). That way, niche, and specialist quality games might get made, and we might get companies take more chances.
I agree with this one. With so many new MMOs that bring little or nothing new, I always wonder why companies choose to start from scratch on coding. It seems like it would be so much more cost effective to use the basic code that is already out there. Why reinvent the wheel if you aren't planning on bringing anything new to the table?
Of course, I'm making a lot of major assumptions, but hey, it sounds good to me
True, there are many potentially good MMOs coming out in the next couple of years but does anyone else get a feeling that MMOs today are just plain crap? I dont know...Im getting that feeling. Anyone else feeling this way?
Theres alot of crap MMOs out there just trying to win a quick buck, but again, remember how most big MMO companys started.. with a crap MMO to make theire first profit and then work on something bigger.
Theres always going to be Low quality MMOs and High quality MMOs. The number of players on MMOs has been increasing every year, and alot of good MMOs are launched every year.
I dont think every MMO on the market now are plain crap.. Alot of them are, but theres some good MMOs also.
Indie films can be produced cheaply compared to a blockbuster move and be better by usually reducing the special effects but having better everything else, cheap HD camera kit has helped also.
You can't do this with an MMO, for them to be good they require 5 years work unless you rehash an old engine. There are no shorcuts unless you make it 2D or something.
Eve is doin well, with a gradually growing player base they are able to constantly add to the game rather than starting again. using this technique it has the possiblility to go on for a long time without the 5 year gap of development and no revenue, all the content will add up to make an uber game.
One slightly odd but quite possibly likely solution.
We have what they call web2.0. Facebook, youtube et al, websites driven on user generated content.
The MMO version is 2nd Life. Although crap the concept is there.
You could have a system where players use dev made tools to create items, maps, quests and mobs. To stop it being out of lore or weird like 2nd life it would be submitted for review before being allowed.
The next couple of years will not be upto much. MMOs have just hit the mainstream. (Wow accounted for over 50% of pc game profits.)
Everyone will copy WoW and fail, although not groundbreaking for vets, it is great for n00bs and also very polished. As Vanguard and LoTRO proved it is going to have to be something much better, weather that will be deapthlessness , easyness and shortterm fun or a real mmo,it is hard to say. just have to wait for the right game.
Dev times need to be reduced and technology needs to increase. as always it is just a waiting game.
Indie films can be produced cheaply compared to a blockbuster move and be better by usually reducing the special effects but having better everything else, cheap HD camera kit has helped also.
You can't do this with an MMO, for them to be good they require 5 years work unless you rehash an old engine. There are no shorcuts unless you make it 2D or something.
Eve is doin well, with a gradually growing player base they are able to constantly add to the game rather than starting again. using this technique it has the possiblility to go on for a long time without the 5 year gap of development and no revenue, all the content will add up to make an uber game.
One slightly odd but quite possibly likely solution. We have what they call web2.0. Facebook, youtube et al, websites driven on user generated content. The MMO version is 2nd Life. Although crap the concept is there. You could have a system where players use dev made tools to create items, maps, quests and mobs. To stop it being out of lore or weird like 2nd life it would be submitted for review before being allowed.
The next couple of years will not be upto much. MMOs have just hit the mainstream. (Wow accounted for over 50% of pc game profits.) Everyone will copy WoW and fail, although not groundbreaking for vets, it is great for n00bs and also very polished. As Vanguard and LoTRO proved it is going to have to be something much better, weather that will be deapthlessness , easyness and shortterm fun or a real mmo,it is hard to say. just have to wait for the right game. Dev times need to be reduced and technology needs to increase. as always it is just a waiting game.
Have a look at Metaplace.com. Very much along the lines of what you're talking about. In fact, Metaplace is the only MMO related project that I'm even slightly following at the moment. They're in alpha right now with beta planned for the spring. Should be very interesting when Metaplace projects starts rolling out, even if they're only 2D for a while.
I think it's just veteran's syndrome. Ask nearly anyone what their favorite MMO was and it's likely the first they ever played. We veteran players just expect new, revolutionary stuff to come our way as per how things should naturally occur, only to receive this year's design of last year's model.
And it isn't just MMOs that make me feel that way, I can hardly complete an FPS these days due to the 'been there, done that' feeling that has my mind wandering to some other game. I probably have a backlog of unfinished games that could see me into the next generation of games.
yeah i have to agree... it seems no matter how hard i try, the first mmo i played was my favorite... if you don't like it why would you try other mmos you know what I mean? For me it was Final Fantasy...
I don't think it's dying, but as someone else said I think it's just where you get restless looking for the next thing that will give you that fresh feeling you had when you first started playing your favorite mmo.
If the MMO age is dying it's because people are sick and tired of the WoW clones. I fell in love with pre-CU SWG, and there hasnt been a comparable skill bases MMO since. If developers tried something different for once, they might stand a chance at creating something great. Right now they churn out the same game with different graphics and they have mediocre numbers because it doesn't matter which one people play, cause they are all the same. Devs are scared to try anything original because it might flop.
Comments
are you trying to convince yourself ?
Are you speaking to the OP, me, or someone else?
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
MMOs are only getting better. I'm not stupid enough to believe UO or EQ are even comparable to MMOs today. Sure, the memories might SEEM better back then, mostly due to the PEOPLE playing, but the games themselves kind of sucked when you really look at it all objectively. Doom or WOlfenstein were the 1st FPSs Iand I have some amazing memories. However, they sure as hell aren't great FPSs compared to COD4 or Crysis. They're mostly pathetic by todays standards. Thats the same way I feel about UO or EQ after playing WOW. They were fun back in the day, but I couldn't tolerate the lousy UI and control, total lack of content, bugs, exploits and unbalanced game play.
Put WOW of today against EQ or UO circa '98 in front of 100 people who never touched or heard of a MMO before. Just take a guess which one they're all going to play. Those older MMO seemed great because there was nothing like it at the time. Its the same way Doom seemed amazing back then. Today it sucks. Karate Champ seemed pretty cool at the time. It blows compared to VF5.
Yea, MMO's are much more polished now, but they're also much more shallow and much less challenging. I hated the mob grind as much as the next guy, but I don't think this linear, quest based crap is the best solution. Not to mention, almost every MMO now has a class system thats so simple, even a 4 year old would have little trouble navigating through it...
Agreed.
I've been playing VG lately, which is more challenging then the other garbage released.
I also like to play some of the F2P games. Some of them have really really steep learning curves. No tutorial or anything. You're shoved into the game and told to go kill shit and learn on your own.. that's how I like it. I'm 20 years old.. not 12.. I don't need someone to hold my hand throughout the game. Little markers on maps and crap of where you need to go, etc.. come on.. what happened to an NPC requesting you to kill something because it hurt his little brother and ate his finger? He has no idea exactly where, but gives you a general idea/direction and off you go exploring.. everything has been simplified so anyone with 30minutes can accomplish something.. MMOs arn't fking console games.. you arn't ment to accomplish something in 30mins!
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
I don't think the MMO's are crap. I think the communities surrounding most MMO's are crap. An MMO's community inevitably decides whether a game is going to fun and around for the long haul. Even a game as popular as WOW has become boring and tedious at end game due to the lack of great community. The scariest thing for me as I look at the current and next batch of MMO's is that they all seem to be leaning towards more solo gameplay. I think the MMO experience is just drained of its life when someone can go from level 1 to max level without playing in a party or group the majority of the time. I might as well be playing a single player rpg at that point. This is the game dynamic that I feel messes up the community(which is the most important) aspect of MMO's.
Unfortunately we are probably going to be stuck with the current format and style of MMO's until Blizzard releases its next big MMO. Hopefully by then Blizzard will realize that all of the new 9+ million players are used to the MMO genre now and that they can make a much more challenging game focused on group play and community.
I liked EQ 2 a lot but it did not have that sense of a deep, wide, open, and dangerous world than Vanguard offers, and I think Vanguard needs more (a) character customization and (b) deep Questing. It should adopt ideas from EQ 1 and EQ 2, in my view.
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Hell yeah! And what's with graphics huh?! Real MMO players use text parsers. UO screwed it all up by adding pictures. I want my artificially increased difficulty! Screw GUIs! Hell, blank out my screen at random intervals and perma kill my characters randomly. Come to my house and beat me if I even think of using a hotkey..... Man, bring back the good old days of intelligent gaming.....
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
Slice it any way you want, but most newer MMO's are pretty easy and shallow. They're ultra linear and entirely focused on combat, so theres never really a question of what you should do. They're level based with segmented worlds, so theres never a question of where you should go. They're class based with a narrow spec system, so theres never a question of how to build your character. They're quest based and the quest givers have huge flashing neon signs over their heads, so theres never a question of who to talk to. They're completely static, so theres never a reaction or response to any thing you ever do in the game world...
I'm not going to say that older MMO's were perfect, because they had plenty of flaws themselves. However, what we're seeing now isn't much of an improvement...more like a trade off. You can make the game more "accessible" so thats it's easier to get into and easier to understand, but in doing so you're going to make the player that much more detached from the game world. The more you play through a UI and icons and signs and cues, the less you're actually playing IN the game world.
I have to agree here. My first MMORPG was Ultima Online and compared to the current most popular games right now, it had much more depth. The game gave you so many options. I mean what can you do in WoW right now? Kill things? Compare that to the game that was released in 1998 and tell me if the MMORPG market is dying or not? I think that there is a problem when a game released almost 10 years ago offers more things to do than the current top game.
Now, I cannot say that the MMORPG market is dying but it is definitely stagnating with everyone trying to follow Blizzard's formula. What the developers are failing to realze is that even if they do follow Blizzard's formula, their game will never succeed because they don't have the Warcraft universe when practically sold the game for Blizzard.
The MMOG era is not dying, only awaiting its Eisenstein.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Anytime something underground is shoved into the mainstream it gets ruined.
Yeah, like Rock n' Roll music and Film....
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Personally I think that players should drop the idea of playing 1 game for life. I've got 3 or 4 on hard disk now, and I will probably rotate them every so often if I get bored of them. It's only if I get into a group or guild which I want to stick with that I'll stay longer..
Hell I might even reboot WoW next year, seeing as it's easier to get to lvl 60. Theres the whole of BC I havent touched yet.
1] Better AI, as of today the AI in MMO is the most basic you can imagine, every FPS out there have a better AI. Kinda sad for games that are supposed to be immersive and represent a "realistic" world with living character
2] Physics and environment interaction; throwing a fireball on a gobelin and burning the tree besides him, hitting that same tree with an Axe and make it fall on the gobelins group to divide them, fightning an ogre in a tavern and make all the tables and glasses fly all over the place? etc etc Same as before every FPS outhere have better physics than MMO, well in fact there is absolutely 0 physics and only very limited scripted environment interaction in the current MMO.
If you think it is impossible, think again, as said before, current MMO are "pong", without talking about virtual reality, having world wide physics and environment interaction is definitely in the realms of possiblity in a few years.
3] Rethink Game Mechanics: Pull, Aggro, Tank, Heal, Mez. Every single MMORPG on the market works like that to some degree, whether you are using a bow or a laser gun to kill your foes, it is always the same mechanics behind.
We need to completely rethink the way combat works and core mechanics in MMOG; this is of course directly tied to the AI of the enemies, and would impact the whole gameplay as a result. The combat are all the same, more or less, we need to get out of this “circle” and innovate.
It is not normal that when I try a new MMO; I know how to play it even before I launch the game, when I fight in Warhammer online, I play my character like I did in EQ1, absolutely no difference besides a few fluff things.
Physics, Environment interaction and AI are the future of MMOG, and from those things new core mechanics will appears
The people who put out the money to create these games have no desire to do anything else other than make more money. It's a business, pure and simple. They could care less if you "enjoy" your gaming experience. As long as they are making a profit, they consider themselves successful.
Think about it as if it was your money you were investing. If you plopped $10,000 into an investment, would you want it to be a "new" (ie. risky) prospect, or would you want to invest in something that was tried and true and gave you the best possible chance to give you the maximum amout of money back? Right now, the MMO formula that is "successful" is the "kill, loot, level" formula...put people on a never ending "grind" to make them feel like they are accomplishing something. As long as the masses pay for this "hamster wheel" formula, the investors of MMOs force the developers to create this kind of garbage.
So what does this mean for the old time gamers who seek adventure and immersion in a game? We're left hung out to dry, and are left with playing new games with about as much depth as a bowl of Cheerios.
So to the original poster, I feel your pain, believe me. Until someone figures out how to truly make the next interesting MMO (and make money off of it of course), I believe I'm fed up with the whole MMO experience as well. At least, it was a nice ride for a few years...
If you're going to use the film industry as a basis for how the gaming industry will work, then you have to look to the big 'studios' (and by this I mean the SOE, EA Blizzards etc) to see value in funding smaller projects.
Think about it. Everyone is chasing the blockbuster (WoW), but they should also be going and funding Oscar contenders which sell less, but look good industry wise.
So, theres two things which need to change.
1) Development companies need to see the value in smaller, 'quality', critically acclaimed projects
2) Development costs need to fall. You can't have Vanguard like games costing $30m, and needing 300k+ Subs to survive. You need to be able to create games (and quality ones) for say $10m, and be happy with 100-200k of subscribers (making a good return for investors and allowing post release development etc). That way, niche, and specialist quality games might get made, and we might get companies take more chances.
Of course, I'm making a lot of major assumptions, but hey, it sounds good to me
At the same time though
Yes! there is a lot of 'crap' out there atm.
Theres alot of crap MMOs out there just trying to win a quick buck, but again, remember how most big MMO companys started.. with a crap MMO to make theire first profit and then work on something bigger.
Theres always going to be Low quality MMOs and High quality MMOs. The number of players on MMOs has been increasing every year, and alot of good MMOs are launched every year.
I dont think every MMO on the market now are plain crap.. Alot of them are, but theres some good MMOs also.
Indie films can be produced cheaply compared to a blockbuster move and be better by usually reducing the special effects but having better everything else, cheap HD camera kit has helped also.
You can't do this with an MMO, for them to be good they require 5 years work unless you rehash an old engine. There are no shorcuts unless you make it 2D or something.
Eve is doin well, with a gradually growing player base they are able to constantly add to the game rather than starting again. using this technique it has the possiblility to go on for a long time without the 5 year gap of development and no revenue, all the content will add up to make an uber game.
One slightly odd but quite possibly likely solution.
We have what they call web2.0. Facebook, youtube et al, websites driven on user generated content.
The MMO version is 2nd Life. Although crap the concept is there.
You could have a system where players use dev made tools to create items, maps, quests and mobs. To stop it being out of lore or weird like 2nd life it would be submitted for review before being allowed.
The next couple of years will not be upto much. MMOs have just hit the mainstream. (Wow accounted for over 50% of pc game profits.)
Everyone will copy WoW and fail, although not groundbreaking for vets, it is great for n00bs and also very polished. As Vanguard and LoTRO proved it is going to have to be something much better, weather that will be deapthlessness , easyness and shortterm fun or a real mmo,it is hard to say. just have to wait for the right game.
Dev times need to be reduced and technology needs to increase. as always it is just a waiting game.
Have a look at Metaplace.com. Very much along the lines of what you're talking about. In fact, Metaplace is the only MMO related project that I'm even slightly following at the moment. They're in alpha right now with beta planned for the spring. Should be very interesting when Metaplace projects starts rolling out, even if they're only 2D for a while.
I think it's just veteran's syndrome. Ask nearly anyone what their favorite MMO was and it's likely the first they ever played. We veteran players just expect new, revolutionary stuff to come our way as per how things should naturally occur, only to receive this year's design of last year's model.
And it isn't just MMOs that make me feel that way, I can hardly complete an FPS these days due to the 'been there, done that' feeling that has my mind wandering to some other game. I probably have a backlog of unfinished games that could see me into the next generation of games.
yeah i have to agree... it seems no matter how hard i try, the first mmo i played was my favorite... if you don't like it why would you try other mmos you know what I mean? For me it was Final Fantasy...
I don't think it's dying, but as someone else said I think it's just where you get restless looking for the next thing that will give you that fresh feeling you had when you first started playing your favorite mmo.
If the MMO age is dying it's because people are sick and tired of the WoW clones. I fell in love with pre-CU SWG, and there hasnt been a comparable skill bases MMO since. If developers tried something different for once, they might stand a chance at creating something great. Right now they churn out the same game with different graphics and they have mediocre numbers because it doesn't matter which one people play, cause they are all the same. Devs are scared to try anything original because it might flop.