I'm confused. Why does everyone think this is going to be the end of STO? The game is starting out with bad press, but that just means more people will know about the game when it finally comes out. The value of the Star Trek IP is immense, right up there with Star Wars... so why would anyone pass on such a possibility?
Its not just about the money, the license is also at stake here. As it could be found to have been illegally transfered (IE: the Fraud part).
[quote]The complaints stem from allegations that Perpetual sold valuable assets like the Star Trek Online (STO) license to P2 Entertainment, Inc., a thinly veiled yet separate corporate entity, before executing the Perpetual ABC or "Assignment for the Benefit of Creditors" (a liquidation mechanism allowed by states like California as a less expensive alternative to the extensive litigation surrounding bankruptcy). The case could have drastic implications for future of the pre-alpha Star Trek Online title.[/quote]
ADD version: PE was dieing, made a copy company (same people ETC...), sold them the license (on the cheep), there by removing a potential item(s) that could have been sold to pay off debits. Basically, gutting the cow, and leaving the empty shell (proped up with sticks) to the wolves (People they owe money to).
This should help illustrate whats happened.
Uh... yeah, I can read dude. I know what this is all about, but as I said above, I dont know why people in this thread are saying "the sky is falling oh noes its over no STO, etc." Hence the point of my post, hence the point you missed.
Because the sky IS falling?
PE will not be making STO?
Because this means the ST IP will not see the light of day as a MMO for many more years yet?
You don't seem to grasp what this means if they are found guilty, christ, they dont even need to be found guilty,.
They dont even have a publisher... you really think they are going to find one now?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
PE spent nearly $20 million (USD) for Gods & Heroes
PE obtained exclusive rights for a MMO Star Trek
PE agreed to pay Kohnke $15,000/mo for services, but an agreement was made for seven months of which $10,000 per month ($70,000) would be held back. That $70,000 would be paid up to 400% return after launch if the PR campaign was successful.
A successful PR campaign could earn Kohnke $280,000.
Successful PR campaign is going to be one of the arguments for the Jury to decide. (Is Kohnke correct that its PR campaign was successful?)
PE made no announcement either in public or in private to Kohnke of canceling Gods and Heroes.
PE delayed Gods and Heroes for technical reasons, but also stated that additional funding was required.
PE still requested Kohnke to continue with PR work up to Oct 9th.
PE requested Kohnke to help assist with PR effort for PE in acquiring the new funding and Kohnke agreed to do so.
On Oct 9th, PE informed that the new funding would be used for Star Trek Online and that Gods and Heroes would be canceled.
On Oct 9th, PE cut off communication with Kohnke and did not publish the PR draft by Kohnke.
On late Oct 9th, PE announced the delay of Gods and Heroes and the focus with Star Trek Online and did not mention the new funding (on its website)
Kohnke made several requests to PE to know if its services were still needed and to bring the account up-to-date (paid).
On Oct 26th, Kohnke sent out a letter for payment, no express response from PE.
On Oct 30th, Kohnke receives a letter from PE about the liquidation of assets (the ABC) that occurred on Oct 10th.
Kohnke claims that PE, Keene, KcKibbin and P2 were engaged in conspiracy to defraud PE's creditors.
Citing examples of PE making statements that everything is ok and moving forward.
Citing that on Nov 28th, Daron Stinnett made a statement on the site here of "...flatly denying that Perpetual was in the process of liquidating and representing that Perpetual was still an ongoing concern"
On Nov 29th, Keene consoled Kohnke that Perpetual had executed the ABC.
Perpetual received less than market-value for its assets when transfered to P2.
Perpetual ABC was formed on Sept 27th 2007
P2 was formed on Oct 3rd, 2007
No public announcement of the formation of Perpetual ABC and P2.
COUNT 1: (Breach of Contract) Perpetual owes Kohnke a minimum of $80,675 for services, with the maximum of $290,675 had Gods and Heroes not been canceled.
COUNT 2: (Fraudulent Transfer) Transfer of assets to P2 is in violation of California Codes 3439.01 and 3439.07. Kohnke claims, "... Perpetual knew that, by transferring assets to P2, it would lack the assets to pay its debts or other claims owed to Kohnke..."
COUNT 3: (Intentional Interference with Contract) Kohnke considers its PR campaign successful and believes that by canceling Gods and Heroes with the transfer of assets (to minimize remaining value of Perpetual) to interfere with the obligations of the contract.
COUNT 4: (Fraud) Reinstating the references made that Keene, McKibbin and P2 knew of the liquidation with Perpetual and executed it, while not informing Kohnke.
COUNT 5: (Fraud) Essentially the same as above, but with Perpetual. Perpetual was insolvent (had no or little money) and continued for request of service by Kohnke.
COUNT 6: (Constructive Trust) Kohnke states that Perpetual owes it at least $80,675.
COUNT 7: (Resulting Trust) Kohnke seeks immediate transfer of the money.
End of document, Kohnke seeks at least $80,675, plus attorney fees and cost, and other associated costs.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Damn, I wish I wasn't right. I posted they were pulling a "Horizons" with this one and it looks like they did. I can't see STO ever making the light of day now.
PE will not get a chance to brutalize the trekkies with their unethical and fraudulent business practices. It is about time people finally realized what a garbage company PE is. They can't sink fast enough for me.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Star Trek IP, perhaps they will be actually picked up by a company that is worth a modicum of respect this time round.
We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started... and know the place for the first time. -T.S. Eliot
Agreed... PE never deserved to be trusted with something as important as the IP; can't wait to see which company gets it this time. Hopefully one who knows what the f**k they're doing and has actual experience.
This is actually good news to me. While the chances of seeing a Star Trek MMO in the near future has diminished greatly; there is still hope that a better, more reputable and competent developer will pick it up. Again I refere to LOTRO. It came back from the brink of oblivion with Sierra and Turbine made it into a fairly decent MMO. Hopefully someone can do the same for STO.
Im not surprised. This is just the thing the Star Trek franchise has been stearing for. Paramount treats thier property like a goverment contract. Go for the lowest bid. Maybe they learned a lesson on how they should reguard this property. At this point they probably want to drop the concept of STO as designed with PE. Why? They got a new ST movie coming and this will not promote that venture. Further, if the movie bombs, they might not want to flog this pony, again. I love Star Trek and hope better but I just don't trust the "suits" much.
If there is truth to the BioWare report...cool. I just dont have faith in this anymore.
aww man too funny. the crap never ends with PE, first G&H, then the craptacular fiasco that has gone on with STO and now this rears up. lol better than a soap opera, deception, intrigue, backstabbing, half-truths stay tuned for more, now a word from our sponsors......lmfao
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Ah, 2007... the year the MMO industry managed to hit an all time low. Now I'm just waiting for the announcement stating that the STO license has been sold to... SOE
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Ah, 2007... the year the MMO industry managed to hit an all time low. Now I'm just waiting for the announcement stating that the STO license has been sold to... SOE
At this point, even SOE would be a vast improvement over PE.
Ouch, talk about being noobs in regards to business and contractual acumen.
If this lawsuit pans out, Paramount the one granting the license to PE should revoke it fully. Paramount doesn't want all this drama surrounding their "Star Trek Online" IP. Much less after a questionable game software developer that has now been outed by a contractual lawsuit that does have merit.
Like "Ten Ton Hammer" stated at the end of their article the fans of STO will get the short end of the stick. But from a suit point of view Paramount will want to distance themselves from PE if this continues from bad to worse.
Another morsel to chew on if this was indeed a fraudulent exchange of assets from PE to it's next corporate incarnation. Than a criminal inquiry of the State Attorney General's Office will be considered down the road.
Ah, 2007... the year the MMO industry managed to hit an all time low. Now I'm just waiting for the announcement stating that the STO license has been sold to... SOE
At this point, even SOE would be a vast improvement over PE.
QFT
However, with the issues that now surround the license, SOE wouldn't touch it with a 39 1/2 foot pole. I hope the devs weren't counting on a Xmas bonus this year!
Played: UO, SWG Pre-CU (until 11/16/05), Various F2P's Playing: GW Awaiting: WAR, DF Never played: WoW
Yeah! Now let's give this license to an experienced developer with some great games under its belt, like uh... Bethesda!!! Uh.... SOE!.... Uh.... EA? Er... help me out? Who could pick it up exactly who isnt already snowed under making one of their own? bah, STO is dead.
if anything this will end up with PE losing STO which will be a good thing so now we can have some one good make a fun game, that isn't a wow clone. if we're lucky of course.
Yeah! Now let's give this license to an experienced developer with some great games under its belt, like uh... Bethesda!!! Uh.... SOE!.... Uh.... EA? Er... help me out? Who could pick it up exactly who isnt already snowed under making one of their own? bah, STO is dead.
Obsidian perhaps? Or Carbine?
Hey, Valve would make for an interesting MMO developer, despite the previous FPS focus. Just brainstorming here.
As I said before, you can't shift assets from one company to the next when you owe money and expect the creditors to not notice.
You can kiss STO goodbye. I just hope noone is dumb enough to offer Mr Stinnet a job when Pepetual goes under, his resume should read failure to understand anything about this industry.
Comments
I'm confused. Why does everyone think this is going to be the end of STO? The game is starting out with bad press, but that just means more people will know about the game when it finally comes out. The value of the Star Trek IP is immense, right up there with Star Wars... so why would anyone pass on such a possibility?
Its not just about the money, the license is also at stake here. As it could be found to have been illegally transfered (IE: the Fraud part).
[quote]The complaints stem from allegations that Perpetual sold valuable assets like the Star Trek Online (STO) license to P2 Entertainment, Inc., a thinly veiled yet separate corporate entity, before executing the Perpetual ABC or "Assignment for the Benefit of Creditors" (a liquidation mechanism allowed by states like California as a less expensive alternative to the extensive litigation surrounding bankruptcy). The case could have drastic implications for future of the pre-alpha Star Trek Online title.[/quote]
ADD version: PE was dieing, made a copy company (same people ETC...), sold them the license (on the cheep), there by removing a potential item(s) that could have been sold to pay off debits. Basically, gutting the cow, and leaving the empty shell (proped up with sticks) to the wolves (People they owe money to).
This should help illustrate whats happened.
Uh... yeah, I can read dude. I know what this is all about, but as I said above, I dont know why people in this thread are saying "the sky is falling oh noes its over no STO, etc." Hence the point of my post, hence the point you missed.
Because the sky IS falling?
PE will not be making STO?
Because this means the ST IP will not see the light of day as a MMO for many more years yet?
You don't seem to grasp what this means if they are found guilty, christ, they dont even need to be found guilty,.
They dont even have a publisher... you really think they are going to find one now?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
A summary from the Court Documents
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
HHHAHAAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHhahahhAHhahAHAHaHhaHahaHAahhaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
Ok, I'm done.
Wait..........
HAHAHAHAHAHHAhhhaahhaHAAhAHaHaahahaAhhhhhhhAAAaaAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lulz
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
I found none of this surprising at all. They pretty much told us this was exactly what they were doing.
I look at this as a blessing - as the STO license will get striped away and hopefully someone that can do the title justice will end up with it.
Oh ya I almost forgot - HaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Am I dreaming? I'm too happy to be awake.
Damn, I wish I wasn't right. I posted they were pulling a "Horizons" with this one and it looks like they did. I can't see STO ever making the light of day now.
This is truly a great day!
PE will not get a chance to brutalize the trekkies with their unethical and fraudulent business practices. It is about time people finally realized what a garbage company PE is. They can't sink fast enough for me.
I wouldn't worry too much about the Star Trek IP, perhaps they will be actually picked up by a company that is worth a modicum of respect this time round.
We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started... and know the place for the first time.
-T.S. Eliot
Agreed... PE never deserved to be trusted with something as important as the IP; can't wait to see which company gets it this time. Hopefully one who knows what the f**k they're doing and has actual experience.
I hope they get in major debt cause of this, and sell off the STO rights to try and gain back some cash.
Seriously why can no one make an MMO we all want anymore?
Why do people do this get rich quick bull? it bugs me to all sorts of things.
-Jive
This is actually good news to me. While the chances of seeing a Star Trek MMO in the near future has diminished greatly; there is still hope that a better, more reputable and competent developer will pick it up. Again I refere to LOTRO. It came back from the brink of oblivion with Sierra and Turbine made it into a fairly decent MMO. Hopefully someone can do the same for STO.
Heh,
Im not surprised. This is just the thing the Star Trek franchise has been stearing for. Paramount treats thier property like a goverment contract. Go for the lowest bid. Maybe they learned a lesson on how they should reguard this property. At this point they probably want to drop the concept of STO as designed with PE. Why? They got a new ST movie coming and this will not promote that venture. Further, if the movie bombs, they might not want to flog this pony, again. I love Star Trek and hope better but I just don't trust the "suits" much.
If there is truth to the BioWare report...cool. I just dont have faith in this anymore.
Long lived but not prospering...
What moron gave them the rights to make Star Trek mmo in the first place?
First the Gods and Heroes fiasco and now this.
aww man too funny. the crap never ends with PE, first G&H, then the craptacular fiasco that has gone on with STO and now this rears up. lol better than a soap opera, deception, intrigue, backstabbing, half-truths stay tuned for more, now a word from our sponsors......lmfao
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Ah, 2007... the year the MMO industry managed to hit an all time low. Now I'm just waiting for the announcement stating that the STO license has been sold to... SOE
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
At this point, even SOE would be a vast improvement over PE.
Ouch, talk about being noobs in regards to business and contractual acumen.
If this lawsuit pans out, Paramount the one granting the license to PE should revoke it fully. Paramount doesn't want all this drama surrounding their "Star Trek Online" IP. Much less after a questionable game software developer that has now been outed by a contractual lawsuit that does have merit.
Like "Ten Ton Hammer" stated at the end of their article the fans of STO will get the short end of the stick. But from a suit point of view Paramount will want to distance themselves from PE if this continues from bad to worse.
Another morsel to chew on if this was indeed a fraudulent exchange of assets from PE to it's next corporate incarnation. Than a criminal inquiry of the State Attorney General's Office will be considered down the road.
----------------------
The Older Gamers
At this point, even SOE would be a vast improvement over PE.
QFT
However, with the issues that now surround the license, SOE wouldn't touch it with a 39 1/2 foot pole. I hope the devs weren't counting on a Xmas bonus this year!
Played: UO, SWG Pre-CU (until 11/16/05), Various F2P's
Playing: GW
Awaiting: WAR, DF
Never played: WoW
You know, this might become a class action lawsuit as I doubt Kohnke is their only creditor that got shafted.
Yeah! Now let's give this license to an experienced developer with some great games under its belt, like uh... Bethesda!!! Uh.... SOE!.... Uh.... EA? Er... help me out? Who could pick it up exactly who isnt already snowed under making one of their own?
bah, STO is dead.
if anything this will end up with PE losing STO which will be a good thing so now we can have some one good make a fun game, that isn't a wow clone. if we're lucky of course.
die.
Hey, Valve would make for an interesting MMO developer, despite the previous FPS focus. Just brainstorming here.
Your right. What a turn of events. Makes you wonder if Perpetual was even serious about Gods and Heroes at one time.
As I said before, you can't shift assets from one company to the next when you owe money and expect the creditors to not notice.
You can kiss STO goodbye. I just hope noone is dumb enough to offer Mr Stinnet a job when Pepetual goes under, his resume should read failure to understand anything about this industry.