WAR was oringaly being developed by another team and they want more control over the lore and story line so WH picked up and went some were else and chose Mythic and have stuck with them. So im sure everything they are doing is aproved by WH.
Any who I have a feeling that Chaos will be a very popular class which makes sense since theres a ton of chaos warriors in WH lore.
Finally WH the table top game is ever evolving game if you follow the White Dwarf and every year deppending upon big gaming convensions aspects of WH world changes so I think the MMO will fit perfectly in with the game
Actually they did, way back when. They addressed it with a now over-used quote 'WAR is Batman!'
That quote meant that we've seen lots of different Batmans over the years. The campy 60s Batman, the Tim Burton/Dirty Harry-style Batman, the Christian Bale Batman, the Warner Bros animated Batman, that Anime-style Batman, and the comic Batman.
But they're all Batman - a guy in a batsuit, lots of gadgets and a butler. But each is different. The comparison applies to WAR. It's Mythic's version of the Warhammer world, not the table top game, or the RPG or the novels. Mythic had to make modifications to fit Warhammer into a MMORPG.
The big question is whether or not Mythic will be able to catch the *feel* of the Warhammer setting even with those changes. So far I think they've done a good job, but the proof will be on the release date.
Now regarding the feel of the world, I don't think Warhammer is exclusively a dark and gloomy setting. There is a great deal of humor in it as well. Now it's dark and twisted humor, but humor nonetheless. There's also a kind of joy in Warhammer when you see the cool miniatures and engage in the epic battles even if it is taking place in a dark world.
Warhammer itself isn't a depressing hobby, it's a fun and entertaining hobby. If it wasn't it wouldn't have become as popular as it is. Mythic obviously wants to capture that joy in the game, not depress people, so their game is going to fun and entertaining. Just like Warhammer.
The thing though is, that putting in magic to the extent that they have (amongst other things), would be like giving batman a flourescent pink fish suit instead of a batman uniform to me. Because in the lore from Warhammer, Conan, and etcetera, magic is big, scary, and generally not used by people.
Ex1: A mage in the Warhammer lore is a very rare sight, and they are powerful enough to single handedly destroy a town.
Ex2: In Warhammer lore, there is no such thing as a mage who isn't powerful. Though there are those who practice magic on a minor level, it is basically a trinket for them.
The reason for this is because it is based off of J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, in which mages are mystical/powerful like Gandalf, but MMOs seem to think that everyone needs to be able to play every situation, regardless of how badly it breaks the lore. I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it.
I didn't watch Spiderman to see a director's interpretation of what might be a cool version of the Spiderman story, I watched Spiderman to see Spiderman.
I see your point and lets take a look at WAR from a MMORPG FAN perspective...devils advocate if you will.
There are ALWAYS casters in mmos.
There will always BE casters in mmos.
There is no way to make casters less played and still be incredibly powerful.
Star Wars Galaxies tried to stay true to the lore with the Jedi. Jedi are in a way was your WARHAMMER Lore Mage. They are very powerful and take a LONG LONG time to become a full fledged JEDI. That system wouldnt work with WAR and definitely didnt work with the train wreck that was SWG.
One other thing you said,
"I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it."
I personally would mind if the only fighting I saw in a mmo was between meat head melee.....
unless I can be the sole OVERPOWERED MAGE :P
Ever play Mount and Blade? There's no magic there, allthough there are non-combat roles, all the fun is in the combat. Not that you could easily implement a M&B combat system into an MMO, it would be a coold concept to toy with.
If you haven't tried the demo I suggest that you do.
But why? Why would anyone want to not have magic in the game when magic is a wonderful (and fundamental) facet to most fantasy based universes. Many people are drawn to fantasy games because of the mysterious and powerful nature of magic. It is a quintessential part of fantasy and fiction. Magic has no limitations, only what is brought through our imagination.
So why would anyone not want Magic or some form of it in a game like this is beyond me. If the choices were no magic or widespread magic, I would definitely choose widespread magic.
Maybe one day though Cathalode they will make a game like you want, and you will become one of the few overpowered mages. Then you can fight the other overpowered mages, because that will be the only players left in the game.
Actually they did, way back when. They addressed it with a now over-used quote 'WAR is Batman!'
That quote meant that we've seen lots of different Batmans over the years. The campy 60s Batman, the Tim Burton/Dirty Harry-style Batman, the Christian Bale Batman, the Warner Bros animated Batman, that Anime-style Batman, and the comic Batman.
But they're all Batman - a guy in a batsuit, lots of gadgets and a butler. But each is different. The comparison applies to WAR. It's Mythic's version of the Warhammer world, not the table top game, or the RPG or the novels. Mythic had to make modifications to fit Warhammer into a MMORPG.
The big question is whether or not Mythic will be able to catch the *feel* of the Warhammer setting even with those changes. So far I think they've done a good job, but the proof will be on the release date.
Now regarding the feel of the world, I don't think Warhammer is exclusively a dark and gloomy setting. There is a great deal of humor in it as well. Now it's dark and twisted humor, but humor nonetheless. There's also a kind of joy in Warhammer when you see the cool miniatures and engage in the epic battles even if it is taking place in a dark world.
Warhammer itself isn't a depressing hobby, it's a fun and entertaining hobby. If it wasn't it wouldn't have become as popular as it is. Mythic obviously wants to capture that joy in the game, not depress people, so their game is going to fun and entertaining. Just like Warhammer.
The thing though is, that putting in magic to the extent that they have (amongst other things), would be like giving batman a flourescent pink fish suit instead of a batman uniform to me. Because in the lore from Warhammer, Conan, and etcetera, magic is big, scary, and generally not used by people.
Ex1: A mage in the Warhammer lore is a very rare sight, and they are powerful enough to single handedly destroy a town.
Ex2: In Warhammer lore, there is no such thing as a mage who isn't powerful. Though there are those who practice magic on a minor level, it is basically a trinket for them.
The reason for this is because it is based off of J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, in which mages are mystical/powerful like Gandalf, but MMOs seem to think that everyone needs to be able to play every situation, regardless of how badly it breaks the lore. I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it.
I didn't watch Spiderman to see a director's interpretation of what might be a cool version of the Spiderman story, I watched Spiderman to see Spiderman.
I see your point and lets take a look at WAR from a MMORPG FAN perspective...devils advocate if you will.
There are ALWAYS casters in mmos.
There will always BE casters in mmos.
There is no way to make casters less played and still be incredibly powerful.
Star Wars Galaxies tried to stay true to the lore with the Jedi. Jedi are in a way was your WARHAMMER Lore Mage. They are very powerful and take a LONG LONG time to become a full fledged JEDI. That system wouldnt work with WAR and definitely didnt work with the train wreck that was SWG.
One other thing you said,
"I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it."
I personally would mind if the only fighting I saw in a mmo was between meat head melee.....
unless I can be the sole OVERPOWERED MAGE :P
Ever play Mount and Blade? There's no magic there, allthough there are non-combat roles, all the fun is in the combat. Not that you could easily implement a M&B combat system into an MMO, it would be a coold concept to toy with.
If you haven't tried the demo I suggest that you do.
But why? Why would anyone want to not have magic in the game when magic is a wonderful (and fundamental) facet to most fantasy based universes. Many people are drawn to fantasy games because of the mysterious and powerful nature of magic. It is a quintessential part of fantasy and fiction. Magic has no limitations, only what is brought through our imagination.
So why would anyone not want Magic or some form of it in a game like this is beyond me. If the choices were no magic or widespread magic, I would definitely choose widespread magic.
Maybe one day though Cathalode they will make a game like you want, and you will become one of the few overpowered mages. Then you can fight the other overpowered mages, because that will be the only players left in the game.
I think the problem with having magic everywhere is people get so used to it that it becomes just another weapon. In SWG when a player jedi was rare and you saw one, it was a REALLY COOL event. I remember the first player jedi I saw on my server and the months where if someone spotted a jedi they'd go and post about it on the forum.
Later on as jedi became more and more common, they lost their wow effect and became like any other class.
Magic is the same, it's great and cool at first but if you see it all the time then it's nothing special.
I agree that if magic were rare and there were few people who were "Jedi" like that it would be really cool when you crossed their path. It would be very impressionable for sure. The thing is it just can't be done I think. If you restrict classes so that only a few can attain them then...
1. The "Jedi" like people will most likely be the hardcore players.
2. Casual and even moderately hardcore people will destroy forums with rants about not being given an equal chance to attain the class because they do not have the time to dedicate.
3. In a faction vs. faction game it would be a huge issue of balance. While it would probably be an awesome site to see some uber mage come in and dominate a group of people, you can certainly expect the other side to hit the forums ranting about it. You have to have class balancing. People don't join pvp/rvr and groups to get rolled out by one person.
I'm not saying it is not possible to do, but it is seemingly not possible to include with a successful reception. It would cause too much strife in a game such as WAR.
I didn't play SWG thoroughly so I don't know how it was. Iif anyone could become a Jedi pre-NGE then that's cool, but that is not the same as restricting it to a select few. Or in the worst case scenario imo... removing it completely.
Actually they did, way back when. They addressed it with a now over-used quote 'WAR is Batman!'
That quote meant that we've seen lots of different Batmans over the years. The campy 60s Batman, the Tim Burton/Dirty Harry-style Batman, the Christian Bale Batman, the Warner Bros animated Batman, that Anime-style Batman, and the comic Batman.
But they're all Batman - a guy in a batsuit, lots of gadgets and a butler. But each is different. The comparison applies to WAR. It's Mythic's version of the Warhammer world, not the table top game, or the RPG or the novels. Mythic had to make modifications to fit Warhammer into a MMORPG.
The big question is whether or not Mythic will be able to catch the *feel* of the Warhammer setting even with those changes. So far I think they've done a good job, but the proof will be on the release date.
Now regarding the feel of the world, I don't think Warhammer is exclusively a dark and gloomy setting. There is a great deal of humor in it as well. Now it's dark and twisted humor, but humor nonetheless. There's also a kind of joy in Warhammer when you see the cool miniatures and engage in the epic battles even if it is taking place in a dark world.
Warhammer itself isn't a depressing hobby, it's a fun and entertaining hobby. If it wasn't it wouldn't have become as popular as it is. Mythic obviously wants to capture that joy in the game, not depress people, so their game is going to fun and entertaining. Just like Warhammer.
The thing though is, that putting in magic to the extent that they have (amongst other things), would be like giving batman a flourescent pink fish suit instead of a batman uniform to me. Because in the lore from Warhammer, Conan, and etcetera, magic is big, scary, and generally not used by people.
Ex1: A mage in the Warhammer lore is a very rare sight, and they are powerful enough to single handedly destroy a town.
Ex2: In Warhammer lore, there is no such thing as a mage who isn't powerful. Though there are those who practice magic on a minor level, it is basically a trinket for them.
The reason for this is because it is based off of J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, in which mages are mystical/powerful like Gandalf, but MMOs seem to think that everyone needs to be able to play every situation, regardless of how badly it breaks the lore. I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it.
I didn't watch Spiderman to see a director's interpretation of what might be a cool version of the Spiderman story, I watched Spiderman to see Spiderman.
I see your point and lets take a look at WAR from a MMORPG FAN perspective...devils advocate if you will.
There are ALWAYS casters in mmos.
There will always BE casters in mmos.
There is no way to make casters less played and still be incredibly powerful.
Star Wars Galaxies tried to stay true to the lore with the Jedi. Jedi are in a way was your WARHAMMER Lore Mage. They are very powerful and take a LONG LONG time to become a full fledged JEDI. That system wouldnt work with WAR and definitely didnt work with the train wreck that was SWG.
One other thing you said,
"I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it."
I personally would mind if the only fighting I saw in a mmo was between meat head melee.....
unless I can be the sole OVERPOWERED MAGE :P
Ever play Mount and Blade? There's no magic there, allthough there are non-combat roles, all the fun is in the combat. Not that you could easily implement a M&B combat system into an MMO, it would be a coold concept to toy with.
If you haven't tried the demo I suggest that you do.
But why? Why would anyone want to not have magic in the game when magic is a wonderful (and fundamental) facet to most fantasy based universes. Many people are drawn to fantasy games because of the mysterious and powerful nature of magic. It is a quintessential part of fantasy and fiction. Magic has no limitations, only what is brought through our imagination.
So why would anyone not want Magic or some form of it in a game like this is beyond me. If the choices were no magic or widespread magic, I would definitely choose widespread magic.
Maybe one day though Cathalode they will make a game like you want, and you will become one of the few overpowered mages. Then you can fight the other overpowered mages, because that will be the only players left in the game.
I'm only against magic if it goes against the lore. You assume that I'm against magic in every shape, and situation. You know what they say about assuming... Personally, I'm in favor of magic in most games, hell in any game that the lore permits it.
Magic is more than fine in most mmorpgs. The lore doesn't prohibit the use of magic and there are many examples on where it is, so there is no reason to block it here.
Actually they did, way back when. They addressed it with a now over-used quote 'WAR is Batman!'
That quote meant that we've seen lots of different Batmans over the years. The campy 60s Batman, the Tim Burton/Dirty Harry-style Batman, the Christian Bale Batman, the Warner Bros animated Batman, that Anime-style Batman, and the comic Batman.
But they're all Batman - a guy in a batsuit, lots of gadgets and a butler. But each is different. The comparison applies to WAR. It's Mythic's version of the Warhammer world, not the table top game, or the RPG or the novels. Mythic had to make modifications to fit Warhammer into a MMORPG.
The big question is whether or not Mythic will be able to catch the *feel* of the Warhammer setting even with those changes. So far I think they've done a good job, but the proof will be on the release date.
Now regarding the feel of the world, I don't think Warhammer is exclusively a dark and gloomy setting. There is a great deal of humor in it as well. Now it's dark and twisted humor, but humor nonetheless. There's also a kind of joy in Warhammer when you see the cool miniatures and engage in the epic battles even if it is taking place in a dark world.
Warhammer itself isn't a depressing hobby, it's a fun and entertaining hobby. If it wasn't it wouldn't have become as popular as it is. Mythic obviously wants to capture that joy in the game, not depress people, so their game is going to fun and entertaining. Just like Warhammer.
The thing though is, that putting in magic to the extent that they have (amongst other things), would be like giving batman a flourescent pink fish suit instead of a batman uniform to me. Because in the lore from Warhammer, Conan, and etcetera, magic is big, scary, and generally not used by people.
Ex1: A mage in the Warhammer lore is a very rare sight, and they are powerful enough to single handedly destroy a town.
Ex2: In Warhammer lore, there is no such thing as a mage who isn't powerful. Though there are those who practice magic on a minor level, it is basically a trinket for them.
The reason for this is because it is based off of J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, in which mages are mystical/powerful like Gandalf, but MMOs seem to think that everyone needs to be able to play every situation, regardless of how badly it breaks the lore. I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it.
I didn't watch Spiderman to see a director's interpretation of what might be a cool version of the Spiderman story, I watched Spiderman to see Spiderman.
I see your point and lets take a look at WAR from a MMORPG FAN perspective...devils advocate if you will.
There are ALWAYS casters in mmos.
There will always BE casters in mmos.
There is no way to make casters less played and still be incredibly powerful.
Star Wars Galaxies tried to stay true to the lore with the Jedi. Jedi are in a way was your WARHAMMER Lore Mage. They are very powerful and take a LONG LONG time to become a full fledged JEDI. That system wouldnt work with WAR and definitely didnt work with the train wreck that was SWG.
One other thing you said,
"I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it."
I personally would mind if the only fighting I saw in a mmo was between meat head melee.....
unless I can be the sole OVERPOWERED MAGE :P
Ever play Mount and Blade? There's no magic there, allthough there are non-combat roles, all the fun is in the combat. Not that you could easily implement a M&B combat system into an MMO, it would be a coold concept to toy with.
If you haven't tried the demo I suggest that you do.
But why? Why would anyone want to not have magic in the game when magic is a wonderful (and fundamental) facet to most fantasy based universes. Many people are drawn to fantasy games because of the mysterious and powerful nature of magic. It is a quintessential part of fantasy and fiction. Magic has no limitations, only what is brought through our imagination.
So why would anyone not want Magic or some form of it in a game like this is beyond me. If the choices were no magic or widespread magic, I would definitely choose widespread magic.
Maybe one day though Cathalode they will make a game like you want, and you will become one of the few overpowered mages. Then you can fight the other overpowered mages, because that will be the only players left in the game.
I'm only against magic if it goes against the lore. You assume that I'm against magic in every shape, and situation. You know what they say about assuming... Personally, I'm in favor of magic in most games, hell in any game that the lore permits it.
It's all good, your posts and especially the Mount and Blade comment just suggested to me you would rather not see magic, or an extremely limited magic system.
They got approval on just about everything from GW. They even worked hand in hand with GW for the zealot. If strict lore is going to kill it for you, I wouldnt recommend playing the game honestly. It's impossible to build a successful mmo with a strict lore and storyline because theres too much insta gratification needs that fuel big time MMO's.
I seek a game with story in solo RPG's and adventure games, not within MMO's. Sure theres the story of quests and whatnot but you wont get a spiffy cinematic. The game doesnt end so they cant follow a defined storyline and just say one day "The End. Thanks for playing."
You know, I was kinda irritated by the fact they had put in Black Guards and gave them a armor designed heavily on the Cold One Knights. After looking at them though and seeing actually how cool the different tier pictures sets were in last months gaming magazine I figured I had to let the lore portion of it go, until the game was completely finished.
I played SWG for 2 years where nothing was lore in that game EQ2 with laser guns pretty much so I figure this game in that department won't be bad.
On a positive to, I am finding more and more information out that they are sticking with the lore and rule sets of combat and magics in the game so that is a big ++++ in my book (only specific classes can use certain magics and not all).
Well, it looks to me like the Dev team just took the general idea from each of the races, and based it entirely off of that. This being my only major gripe with the game. Wouldn't it be easier to have 3 orc classes and 1 goblin? It makes sense that it would be an Orc Shaman anyways, as that's where most of the power is. Or even making it 3 Goblin classes to 1 Orc class, to make it seem more appropriate with the lore, therefor just grouping the Black Orc and Choppa together, and putting in a night goblin? Empire should just contain a rifleman, knight, warrior priest, and soldier. Dwarves make sense, or it fits into the lore at least. Chaos is fine as well. Dark elves and High Elves, I'm a little iffy with. All this being from a table-top perspective. I just find stuff like there being 25% of the players mages, as hard to believe. Considering that in a 1000 point game, you would have maybe 3 out of all of your models as mages, and that's as magic heavy as it gets. If you're going to put them in though, do do crap like put in 2 magic classes for the same race (Chaos/Empire/Probably High Elves).<--- Thats just rubbing dirt in the lores face.
Huh, well it's an MMO, and theres no way you could make an MMO that applies to warhammer lore, unless you were doing it like M&B. Shame that that hasn't come to anyones attention. Well then, cheerio.
Why the hell would you want to paly as a soilder if you can play as a knihgt or rifleman?!
The only thing that REALLY irritated me lore-wise was the inclusion of male sorcerers because:
1.) the reason there ARE NONE is cool, cause Malekith the Witch-King kills them wherever he can find them because it has been foreseen that a sorcerer will destroy him
2.) the reason Paul Barnett gave is SO LAME, because we forgot to tell the art guys that sorcerers are chicks, so they made all this cool concept art of male sorcerers and hmmm seemed a shame to waste it, so we put it in the game! At least thats how I understood his video on the subject. But cmon, wth! At least come up with a GOOD reason lore-wise, and not oh wow we might hurt the art guy's feelings if we don't use his concept art that just happens to go against millenia of dark elf lore and tradition
Aside from that I'm ok with all the other stuff they had to change, like others have said there have to be compromises made, and so far I like the way Mythic's handled it. Except for this cause seems to me they got lazy and just pulled something out of their butts
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW. -BarCrow
I think the problem with having magic everywhere is people get so used to it that it becomes just another weapon. In SWG when a player jedi was rare and you saw one, it was a REALLY COOL event. I remember the first player jedi I saw on my server and the months where if someone spotted a jedi they'd go and post about it on the forum. Later on as jedi became more and more common, they lost their wow effect and became like any other class. Magic is the same, it's great and cool at first but if you see it all the time then it's nothing special.
i agree.. and jedi was the beginning of the end for SWG... because jedi was supposed to be rare... and very hard to get.. and powerful.. but as time went on the developers took somthing that was supposed to be rare.. and made it so everyone 4th guy was a jedi.. making the other 10+ regular combat guys usless.. i mean pistoleer, rifleman, tka, pikeman, fencer, brawler, carbineer, you name it, commando, they all became inferior to jedi.. and once that happened everyone strived to get a jedi.... and then the developers finally 100% gave in and took away 3/4 of the professions and made you a jedi from day one..
all the people like me who where happy with being a master rifleman/pistoleer.. or what ever combo you liked!!! where left in the dust... and had to become jedi. (so the rare became the norm. and the game died!!
They might as well have renamed the game starwars jedi galaxies.
I hope somthing like that does not happen in WAR. the only way to have a good PVP game is to have balance. every char type has its = and opposite.. so that in large scale pvp like this game will have.. will not be destroyed by one class of char..
The only thing that REALLY irritated me lore-wise was the inclusion of male sorcerers because: 1.) the reason there ARE NONE is cool, cause Malekith the Witch-King kills them wherever he can find them because it has been foreseen that a sorcerer will destroy him 2.) the reason Paul Barnett gave is SO LAME, because we forgot to tell the art guys that sorcerers are chicks, so they made all this cool concept art of male sorcerers and hmmm seemed a shame to waste it, so we put it in the game! At least thats how I understood his video on the subject. But cmon, wth! At least come up with a GOOD reason lore-wise, and not oh wow we might hurt the art guy's feelings if we don't use his concept art that just happens to go against millenia of dark elf lore and tradition Aside from that I'm ok with all the other stuff they had to change, like others have said there have to be compromises made, and so far I like the way Mythic's handled it. Except for this cause seems to me they got lazy and just pulled something out of their butts
it might not have been just concept art. if they had made the models for them as well then you are looking at alot of production time wasted on somthing that not right...for the lore... if somthing like that happend i can see them saying well if we dont have them in game we just paid some guy 50$ a hour or whatever for X amount of days to make somthing that we cant use...
Over all you have to remember that lore and the MMO are NOT the bottom line.. they are not making this game for you .. there making this game for your $15 a month. and there not going to waste there money trying to get it from you if they can help it
Comments
WAR was oringaly being developed by another team and they want more control over the lore and story line so WH picked up and went some were else and chose Mythic and have stuck with them. So im sure everything they are doing is aproved by WH.
Any who I have a feeling that Chaos will be a very popular class which makes sense since theres a ton of chaos warriors in WH lore.
Finally WH the table top game is ever evolving game if you follow the White Dwarf and every year deppending upon big gaming convensions aspects of WH world changes so I think the MMO will fit perfectly in with the game
Im Excited
Ex1: A mage in the Warhammer lore is a very rare sight, and they are powerful enough to single handedly destroy a town.
Ex2: In Warhammer lore, there is no such thing as a mage who isn't powerful. Though there are those who practice magic on a minor level, it is basically a trinket for them.
The reason for this is because it is based off of J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, in which mages are mystical/powerful like Gandalf, but MMOs seem to think that everyone needs to be able to play every situation, regardless of how badly it breaks the lore. I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it.
I didn't watch Spiderman to see a director's interpretation of what might be a cool version of the Spiderman story, I watched Spiderman to see Spiderman.
I see your point and lets take a look at WAR from a MMORPG FAN perspective...devils advocate if you will.
There are ALWAYS casters in mmos.
There will always BE casters in mmos.
There is no way to make casters less played and still be incredibly powerful.
Star Wars Galaxies tried to stay true to the lore with the Jedi. Jedi are in a way was your WARHAMMER Lore Mage. They are very powerful and take a LONG LONG time to become a full fledged JEDI. That system wouldnt work with WAR and definitely didnt work with the train wreck that was SWG.
One other thing you said,
"I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it."
I personally would mind if the only fighting I saw in a mmo was between meat head melee.....
unless I can be the sole OVERPOWERED MAGE :P
Ever play Mount and Blade? There's no magic there, allthough there are non-combat roles, all the fun is in the combat. Not that you could easily implement a M&B combat system into an MMO, it would be a coold concept to toy with.If you haven't tried the demo I suggest that you do.
But why? Why would anyone want to not have magic in the game when magic is a wonderful (and fundamental) facet to most fantasy based universes. Many people are drawn to fantasy games because of the mysterious and powerful nature of magic. It is a quintessential part of fantasy and fiction. Magic has no limitations, only what is brought through our imagination.
So why would anyone not want Magic or some form of it in a game like this is beyond me. If the choices were no magic or widespread magic, I would definitely choose widespread magic.
Maybe one day though Cathalode they will make a game like you want, and you will become one of the few overpowered mages. Then you can fight the other overpowered mages, because that will be the only players left in the game.
The thing though is, that putting in magic to the extent that they have (amongst other things), would be like giving batman a flourescent pink fish suit instead of a batman uniform to me. Because in the lore from Warhammer, Conan, and etcetera, magic is big, scary, and generally not used by people.Ex1: A mage in the Warhammer lore is a very rare sight, and they are powerful enough to single handedly destroy a town.
Ex2: In Warhammer lore, there is no such thing as a mage who isn't powerful. Though there are those who practice magic on a minor level, it is basically a trinket for them.
The reason for this is because it is based off of J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, in which mages are mystical/powerful like Gandalf, but MMOs seem to think that everyone needs to be able to play every situation, regardless of how badly it breaks the lore. I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it.
I didn't watch Spiderman to see a director's interpretation of what might be a cool version of the Spiderman story, I watched Spiderman to see Spiderman.
I see your point and lets take a look at WAR from a MMORPG FAN perspective...devils advocate if you will.
There are ALWAYS casters in mmos.
There will always BE casters in mmos.
There is no way to make casters less played and still be incredibly powerful.
Star Wars Galaxies tried to stay true to the lore with the Jedi. Jedi are in a way was your WARHAMMER Lore Mage. They are very powerful and take a LONG LONG time to become a full fledged JEDI. That system wouldnt work with WAR and definitely didnt work with the train wreck that was SWG.
One other thing you said,
"I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it."
I personally would mind if the only fighting I saw in a mmo was between meat head melee.....
unless I can be the sole OVERPOWERED MAGE :P
Ever play Mount and Blade? There's no magic there, allthough there are non-combat roles, all the fun is in the combat. Not that you could easily implement a M&B combat system into an MMO, it would be a coold concept to toy with.If you haven't tried the demo I suggest that you do.
But why? Why would anyone want to not have magic in the game when magic is a wonderful (and fundamental) facet to most fantasy based universes. Many people are drawn to fantasy games because of the mysterious and powerful nature of magic. It is a quintessential part of fantasy and fiction. Magic has no limitations, only what is brought through our imagination.
So why would anyone not want Magic or some form of it in a game like this is beyond me. If the choices were no magic or widespread magic, I would definitely choose widespread magic.
Maybe one day though Cathalode they will make a game like you want, and you will become one of the few overpowered mages. Then you can fight the other overpowered mages, because that will be the only players left in the game.
I think the problem with having magic everywhere is people get so used to it that it becomes just another weapon. In SWG when a player jedi was rare and you saw one, it was a REALLY COOL event. I remember the first player jedi I saw on my server and the months where if someone spotted a jedi they'd go and post about it on the forum.
Later on as jedi became more and more common, they lost their wow effect and became like any other class.
Magic is the same, it's great and cool at first but if you see it all the time then it's nothing special.
I agree that if magic were rare and there were few people who were "Jedi" like that it would be really cool when you crossed their path. It would be very impressionable for sure. The thing is it just can't be done I think. If you restrict classes so that only a few can attain them then...
1. The "Jedi" like people will most likely be the hardcore players.
2. Casual and even moderately hardcore people will destroy forums with rants about not being given an equal chance to attain the class because they do not have the time to dedicate.
3. In a faction vs. faction game it would be a huge issue of balance. While it would probably be an awesome site to see some uber mage come in and dominate a group of people, you can certainly expect the other side to hit the forums ranting about it. You have to have class balancing. People don't join pvp/rvr and groups to get rolled out by one person.
I'm not saying it is not possible to do, but it is seemingly not possible to include with a successful reception. It would cause too much strife in a game such as WAR.
I didn't play SWG thoroughly so I don't know how it was. Iif anyone could become a Jedi pre-NGE then that's cool, but that is not the same as restricting it to a select few. Or in the worst case scenario imo... removing it completely.
Ex1: A mage in the Warhammer lore is a very rare sight, and they are powerful enough to single handedly destroy a town.
Ex2: In Warhammer lore, there is no such thing as a mage who isn't powerful. Though there are those who practice magic on a minor level, it is basically a trinket for them.
The reason for this is because it is based off of J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, in which mages are mystical/powerful like Gandalf, but MMOs seem to think that everyone needs to be able to play every situation, regardless of how badly it breaks the lore. I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it.
I didn't watch Spiderman to see a director's interpretation of what might be a cool version of the Spiderman story, I watched Spiderman to see Spiderman.
I see your point and lets take a look at WAR from a MMORPG FAN perspective...devils advocate if you will.
There are ALWAYS casters in mmos.
There will always BE casters in mmos.
There is no way to make casters less played and still be incredibly powerful.
Star Wars Galaxies tried to stay true to the lore with the Jedi. Jedi are in a way was your WARHAMMER Lore Mage. They are very powerful and take a LONG LONG time to become a full fledged JEDI. That system wouldnt work with WAR and definitely didnt work with the train wreck that was SWG.
One other thing you said,
"I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it."
I personally would mind if the only fighting I saw in a mmo was between meat head melee.....
unless I can be the sole OVERPOWERED MAGE :P
Ever play Mount and Blade? There's no magic there, allthough there are non-combat roles, all the fun is in the combat. Not that you could easily implement a M&B combat system into an MMO, it would be a coold concept to toy with.If you haven't tried the demo I suggest that you do.
But why? Why would anyone want to not have magic in the game when magic is a wonderful (and fundamental) facet to most fantasy based universes. Many people are drawn to fantasy games because of the mysterious and powerful nature of magic. It is a quintessential part of fantasy and fiction. Magic has no limitations, only what is brought through our imagination.
So why would anyone not want Magic or some form of it in a game like this is beyond me. If the choices were no magic or widespread magic, I would definitely choose widespread magic.
Maybe one day though Cathalode they will make a game like you want, and you will become one of the few overpowered mages. Then you can fight the other overpowered mages, because that will be the only players left in the game.
I'm only against magic if it goes against the lore. You assume that I'm against magic in every shape, and situation. You know what they say about assuming... Personally, I'm in favor of magic in most games, hell in any game that the lore permits it.
Magic is more than fine in most mmorpgs. The lore doesn't prohibit the use of magic and there are many examples on where it is, so there is no reason to block it here.
Ex1: A mage in the Warhammer lore is a very rare sight, and they are powerful enough to single handedly destroy a town.
Ex2: In Warhammer lore, there is no such thing as a mage who isn't powerful. Though there are those who practice magic on a minor level, it is basically a trinket for them.
The reason for this is because it is based off of J.R.R. Tolkien's novels, in which mages are mystical/powerful like Gandalf, but MMOs seem to think that everyone needs to be able to play every situation, regardless of how badly it breaks the lore. I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it.
I didn't watch Spiderman to see a director's interpretation of what might be a cool version of the Spiderman story, I watched Spiderman to see Spiderman.
I see your point and lets take a look at WAR from a MMORPG FAN perspective...devils advocate if you will.
There are ALWAYS casters in mmos.
There will always BE casters in mmos.
There is no way to make casters less played and still be incredibly powerful.
Star Wars Galaxies tried to stay true to the lore with the Jedi. Jedi are in a way was your WARHAMMER Lore Mage. They are very powerful and take a LONG LONG time to become a full fledged JEDI. That system wouldnt work with WAR and definitely didnt work with the train wreck that was SWG.
One other thing you said,
"I personally wouldn't mind it if there was no large scale magic that was usable by players, as a matter of fact I would prefer it."
I personally would mind if the only fighting I saw in a mmo was between meat head melee.....
unless I can be the sole OVERPOWERED MAGE :P
Ever play Mount and Blade? There's no magic there, allthough there are non-combat roles, all the fun is in the combat. Not that you could easily implement a M&B combat system into an MMO, it would be a coold concept to toy with.If you haven't tried the demo I suggest that you do.
But why? Why would anyone want to not have magic in the game when magic is a wonderful (and fundamental) facet to most fantasy based universes. Many people are drawn to fantasy games because of the mysterious and powerful nature of magic. It is a quintessential part of fantasy and fiction. Magic has no limitations, only what is brought through our imagination.
So why would anyone not want Magic or some form of it in a game like this is beyond me. If the choices were no magic or widespread magic, I would definitely choose widespread magic.
Maybe one day though Cathalode they will make a game like you want, and you will become one of the few overpowered mages. Then you can fight the other overpowered mages, because that will be the only players left in the game.
I'm only against magic if it goes against the lore. You assume that I'm against magic in every shape, and situation. You know what they say about assuming... Personally, I'm in favor of magic in most games, hell in any game that the lore permits it.
It's all good, your posts and especially the Mount and Blade comment just suggested to me you would rather not see magic, or an extremely limited magic system.
They got approval on just about everything from GW. They even worked hand in hand with GW for the zealot. If strict lore is going to kill it for you, I wouldnt recommend playing the game honestly. It's impossible to build a successful mmo with a strict lore and storyline because theres too much insta gratification needs that fuel big time MMO's.
I seek a game with story in solo RPG's and adventure games, not within MMO's. Sure theres the story of quests and whatnot but you wont get a spiffy cinematic. The game doesnt end so they cant follow a defined storyline and just say one day "The End. Thanks for playing."
You know, I was kinda irritated by the fact they had put in Black Guards and gave them a armor designed heavily on the Cold One Knights. After looking at them though and seeing actually how cool the different tier pictures sets were in last months gaming magazine I figured I had to let the lore portion of it go, until the game was completely finished.
I played SWG for 2 years where nothing was lore in that game EQ2 with laser guns pretty much so I figure this game in that department won't be bad.
On a positive to, I am finding more and more information out that they are sticking with the lore and rule sets of combat and magics in the game so that is a big ++++ in my book (only specific classes can use certain magics and not all).
Why the hell would you want to paly as a soilder if you can play as a knihgt or rifleman?!
The only thing that REALLY irritated me lore-wise was the inclusion of male sorcerers
because:
1.) the reason there ARE NONE is cool, cause Malekith the Witch-King kills them wherever he can find them because it has been foreseen that a sorcerer will destroy him
2.) the reason Paul Barnett gave is SO LAME, because we forgot to tell the art guys that sorcerers are chicks, so they made all this cool concept art of male sorcerers and hmmm seemed a shame to waste it, so we put it in the game! At least thats how I understood his video on the subject. But cmon, wth! At least come up with a GOOD reason lore-wise, and not oh wow we might hurt the art guy's feelings if we don't use his concept art that just happens to go against millenia of dark elf lore and tradition
Aside from that I'm ok with all the other stuff they had to change, like others have said there have to be compromises made, and so far I like the way Mythic's handled it. Except for this cause seems to me they got lazy and just pulled something out of their butts
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
i agree.. and jedi was the beginning of the end for SWG... because jedi was supposed to be rare... and very hard to get.. and powerful.. but as time went on the developers took somthing that was supposed to be rare.. and made it so everyone 4th guy was a jedi.. making the other 10+ regular combat guys usless.. i mean pistoleer, rifleman, tka, pikeman, fencer, brawler, carbineer, you name it, commando, they all became inferior to jedi.. and once that happened everyone strived to get a jedi.... and then the developers finally 100% gave in and took away 3/4 of the professions and made you a jedi from day one..
all the people like me who where happy with being a master rifleman/pistoleer.. or what ever combo you liked!!! where left in the dust... and had to become jedi. (so the rare became the norm. and the game died!!
They might as well have renamed the game starwars jedi galaxies.
I hope somthing like that does not happen in WAR. the only way to have a good PVP game is to have balance. every char type has its = and opposite.. so that in large scale pvp like this game will have.. will not be destroyed by one class of char..
it might not have been just concept art. if they had made the models for them as well then you are looking at alot of production time wasted on somthing that not right...for the lore... if somthing like that happend i can see them saying well if we dont have them in game we just paid some guy 50$ a hour or whatever for X amount of days to make somthing that we cant use...
Over all you have to remember that lore and the MMO are NOT the bottom line.. they are not making this game for you .. there making this game for your $15 a month. and there not going to waste there money trying to get it from you if they can help it