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The good and the Not So Good...
Taram
Member CommonPosts: 1,700
Well I've been at this game since about September now and as such I feel I have a pretty good feel for what it has to offer at just about every level of play.
The Good:
I like the idea behind the PVP system. It's FFA but it's not because you can avoid the PVP areas (to an extent) or you can go through them. Thus PVP is consentual, to a point (will get into that in 'the not so good" The combat system in the game (ship combat) is very well done and is done in such a way that level really doesn't matter all that much. A level 12 player can bring something valuable to a fleet even though he's several levels lower than the 50's that he'll be sailing with and a level 50 cannot necessarily just WTFPWNBBQ a level 12 he runs across. He's first got to catch the lil bugger and then pray to god that guy doesn't have friends nearby.
I also really like the crafting system. Yes, it IS crafting darnit, just because you're not running around digging holes to get the minerals yourself doesn't make it any less of a crafting system. The one in POTBS is very well done. Everything needed in the game can be built by players. In fact many things absolutely cannot be obtained without player crafters. So this makes crafting not only solid but necessary. Which is good.
I like the Economy as well. The blind auction system is very nice indeed. It prevents silliness like price gouging to control a market. And inflation was never much of a problem in beta either since most people learned to start low and work their way up. Players also need to learn some self control and set limits on what they're willing to pay for certain items. All in all I really like that.
Missions are extremely well written and are a lot of fun to do if you read t hrough them (more on that later). The shipboard missions are the best. The AVCombat ones have nice plots but the AVCombat system needs some serious attention as well as more environments in which it occurs. Right now there are only a very limited number of encounter maps which really makes it feel fake. The level of re-use of the same map in missions is just demoralizing. This also happens on ship missions but it's not quite as big of a deal.
The not so good:
Economy:
For a game that purports to want to get great involvement from the Societies (guilds) within it it has pathetic society economy tools. For example there's no way to trade/sell items to society members if you aren't online when they are. This seriously hampers societies ability to function, which is unacceptable. Furthermore there is no society 'vault' where society moneys and items can be stored. This is a huge downfall in the game and one that the devs have stated they don't plan to do anything about till AFTER release... this, imo, is a huge mistake. Fortunately for most new players this won't affect them right away and, hopefully, will be addressed close enough after release to not become as big a deal as it is/was in beta.Crafting:
Well yeah I like the depth of it but I don't like how much interdependance there is. Many MMORPG's have tried the whole "you need a crafter to make this, then you make that, then someone else takes that and makes Z" The kicker is: Every other MMORPG has had to scrap this because, frankly, it's just too complex. Add in the problems I listed under Economy and you have a recipe for disaster in release. Crafting in this game is only going to appeal to the very dedicated crafters who love this type of thing. They are few and far between. Add in the fact that they have to sail through PVP zones a LOT and you have a recipe for disaster because, omg, most crafters are NOT that thrilled with PVP.AVCombat:
VERY repetitive scenery. I mean, c'mon, how many times can I walk down the same jungle path? Invade the same fort? Defend the same town? AVCombat also feels very mechanical and not very fluid at all. It doesn't flow and it feels choppy and poorly designed. It's just not *fun*.NPC Interaction:
I'm sorry, it's 2008 almost (and will be when this comes out). In 2000, 2001 etc it was ok not to have voiceovers in a game. But seriously folks, it's 2008 and NPC's should have voiceovers. A-la EQ2, imo. There's absolutely no excuse not to include voiceovers, espcecially for missions. There are SOME voiceovers in the game. You'll occasionaly hear npc's talking, and you can hear where they are. But for some unknown reason FLS requires you to read every mission as they didn't bother to have the mission text voice-overed. This is a huge drawback and really could have helped with immersion.Immersion:
This is a game based in the Carribean. Land of beautiful beaches. And there are stunning beaches in the game. It's just a damn shame you can't go take a dip. WTF it's 2008 people. There is absolutely no reason why you couldn't have allowed avatars to swim. Beyond just being lazy. I dunno about you but when I can't even take a dip in the ocean (hell, even just walk through the waves on shore) it breaks my immersion. Same goes for.... yep... jumping. I honestly DO understand why they didn't put jumping in but c'mon now. It is, again, 2008 and there's no real reason not to put it in. Sure, it'd take a little more work to make sure people couldn't abuse it. But do you want a game that feels alive? Or a game that feels.... like a game? Immersion is KEY in MMO's. And, sadly, it is lacking. Also the instancing. I can understand instancing combat areas. I can understand instancing sea battles. I CANNOT, for the life of me, understand why they chose to make every single building you can enter an instance.... no not an instance where nobody else is, they're 'public' instances. But I should be able to walk up, open the door, and walk into a building without getting a loading screen. It is NOT like these towns are huge, after all. And then there's the towns themselves. They are just entirely too clean. Now I know FLS is re-working them. And Tortuga is done very well (but way too clean imo. It was a pirate haven and devastated by constant warfare between the spanish, french, dutch, british and buccaneers... it shouldn't be nearly as *clean* as it is. But it IS a step in the right direction. Hopefully FLS will do similar work in the other towns so they don't feel so pristine.PVP:
Yep, I like the mechanics of it but I think one of them (creating pvp areas) is going to cause problems in release. In BETA we have rarely had multiple PVP zones but during the last week of open beta I saw something that really concerned me. While it never happened during CLOSED beta it easily can, and probably will, happen in release. Whats that? Oh nothing much, just half the map being red pvp circles. This will be an absolute nightmare for newer players and older merchantmen as well. Heck, I love PVP (I play EVE after all, in a merc alliance no less) but even I don't like the fact that the pvp zones are a totally FFA area that you absolutely cannot avoid if there are too many of them up.
All in all the game is pretty fun, in my opinion it truely shines between levels 12 and 25. After 25 it's still fun but the pace slows down drastically. It's got some great and innovative ideas and FEELS different, fresh and new. The problem is that due to the lack of immersion and various other areas I listed it just doesn't "grab" players long term. One thing I have noticed during beta is that beta testers didn't tend to stick around. The Churn rate was amazing. Because, frankly, the game is AWESOME the first week... 2... maybe 3 you play it. After that most players go "uerr.... it just isn't that great" and leave. Even in BETA this was a problem. I dread to see what's going to happen in release when people are weighing whether they want to fork out money to keep playing or not.
FLS needs to get several things done before they release this imo... and yeah, that'd mean they push release back by probably 2-3 months. But it'd also mean they have a much healthier launch with better retention rates on their playerbase.
Probably won't happen t hough. Unfortunately.
Right now? I'd advise people to wait a few months after release and try out a free trial then. Buying right now? I don't recommend it.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Comments
Thanks for your review.
The message I seem to be getting from most of the reviews (lately) is that this is a MMO that plays like a single player game?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Actually recent singleplayer rpgs have more freedom and immersion than potbs. Potbs is more like an arcade style game with a chat function.
Excellent review. I think you sum up my view of the game but now I don't have to write it. I am still on the fence about purchase however.
I like the gameplay but the instancing is just so much. I don't mind some instancing but no game has this much instancing.
Good review, nice clean cut.
And yea i kinda felt the same way when i was trying out the beta, i mean , all this instancing, it just aint me, thats one of the reasons why i dont play games Guildwars and never will, Open Worlds are more like me.
List of SOE lies
Not exactly but somewhat yes. Mostly it just doesn't draw you in. Most single player games do, most MMO's do. PotBS for some reason doesn't. Mostly because there are nagging little things that just break the immersion.
Speaking of the immersion the other aspect of breaking immersion that I forgot to mention was the invisible 'box' walls in sea combat instances. While I can understand why they instanced combat at sea and in missions I completely do not understand why there is an invisible barrier around the instance which prevents you from sailing in any given direction for very long. There is no excuse for this. There is absolutely no reason to impose a limited playing field in a instanced battle. There's no reduction in system power needed, there's no decrease in server load associated with it (actually there's a slight increase because the server has to keep track of where everything is in relation to the four walls). And it completely breaks immersion. You cannot have a 'running battle' for very long because eventually you slam into an invisible wall and have to turn. You cannot tactically withdraw and return because they will just chase you till you hit the wall then kill you.
The biggest thing PotBS needs to fix before it goes live is the factors that break immersion. Some, unfortunately, aren't going to be able to be fixed due to the engine they chose and the way they chose to implement it. OTHERS, however, are very easy to fix but will take a small ammt of time. Voiceovers. Get rid of instance walls. Re-draw the towns..... those three items alone will improve the game dramatically. The 'game mechanic' type flaws I listed will be fixed over time as the devs have time to do them and players will be willing to wait for those. But the Immersion is vital. Without immersion people don't resub. Without immersion people leave after the free month is over. Without immersion there is no community and without a community there is no MMO.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Very good review on the game. Hopefully Rick will read over this. He probably knows about everything you said and much more.
i disagree strongly with the voiceovers.
1. voiceovers are for people who are too lazy to read
2. voiceovers are almost always in a US accent (i am sorry but i have to say i hate that kind of accent) or in some random crappy hard to understand accent
3. voiceovers add little to no depth to a game...its really not that great
4. voiceovers can be used as an excuse to limit the music (Music is one of THE most important aspects of an MMO..we dont wanna hear death metal playing whilst in a port or some kiddies song in the middle of an epic boss fight)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I read just fine t hanks. I've been playing online games since they were text based on BBS's and on the internet. Even wrote a few MU*'s myself. Voiceovers are not for lazy people. I like to HEAR the person I'm 'talking' to. Thanks. Matter of fact it's entirely possible that I've been playing online games longer than some people on this forum have been alive
I'm not "too lazy" nor i s anyone else who enjoys voice-overs. I just like to hear the voices
It adds to the game for me.
Agreed. Though that's more a hit on the developer rather than the fact that voiceovers are a bad thing. EVE has voiceovers and they're not in a US accent
Obviously haven't played EQ2. I think they add tons of depth personally. So do a lot of others. On the beta forums it was one of the frequently mentioned items actually.
Um, music is done, all the music in the game is phenomenal. How will adding voice-overs at this point detract from the music? Again you're using a circular arguement. Adding voiceovers doesn't "detract" from anything it only enhances it. In fact if you stand around in the taverns and shops etc you will hear that SOME voiceovers are already in the game, just none for the mission content, which is what is perplexing.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Um, music is done, all the music in the game is phenomenal. How will adding voice-overs at this point detract from the music? Again you're using a circular arguement. Adding voiceovers doesn't "detract" from anything it only enhances it. In fact if you stand around in the taverns and shops etc you will hear that SOME voiceovers are already in the game, just none for the mission content, which is what is perplexing.
Obviously haven't played EQ2. I think they add tons of depth personally. So do a lot of others. On the beta forums it was one of the frequently mentioned items actually.
Agreed. Though that's more a hit on the developer rather than the fact that voiceovers are a bad thing. EVE has voiceovers and they're not in a US accent
I read just fine t hanks. I've been playing online games since they were text based on BBS's and on the internet. Even wrote a few MU*'s myself. Voiceovers are not for lazy people. I like to HEAR the person I'm 'talking' to. Thanks. Matter of fact it's entirely possible that I've been playing online games longer than some people on this forum have been alive
It's also kind of perplexing that you'd insinuate that I am unable or too lazy to read when I wrote a wall of text. Writing and Reading go hand in hand my friend. If you enjoy doing one odds are you enjoy the other.
I'm not "too lazy" nor i s anyone else who enjoys voice-overs. I just like to hear the voices
It adds to the game for me.
I hate voiceovers myself. Can't stand them, especially when you're repeating a mission, so I don't miss them at all.The existing ambient voice fragments (talking townspeople, auctioner etc.) need improvement. IMHO, and I hope they add in better ones. The existing ones are mostly overacted or sound read-from-paper. They could also do with 'local flavor', e.g. spanish NPCs talking with a spanish accent (Antonio Banderas... yummm), french ones with a french one, etc.
I agree with Taram that the music in the game is great. I like the Spanish and Pirate music best.
Stuff is still changing fast, we're now on patch 25 (17 when open beta started on 3 December), so any and all conclusions here cannot be deemed final. The core game mechanics, however, are sufficiently interesting and sufficiently bugfree (never hurts to stress that) that I will buy the game, and am talking my guild into joining.
=p
Linna
Well I gave it an honest shot and gave FLS as much time as I could, even played on the last day of beta. Unfortunately I didn't really see many of the immersion issues I have mentioned above adressed and, unfortunately, most of the 'real showstoppers' will probably never go away, at least not in the short term.
My initial stance stands:
As it stands right now I don't recommend this game for purchase. If it didn't have a monthly fee I might forgive it but with a monthly fee attached you're essentially paying to play a late stage beta of the game as it's really not polished enough for release yet. I plan to give it a few months and take another look then.
PS: Since I chose not to purchase the game I wound up uninstalling it. When you uninstall the game make sure you delete the Flying Labs Software folder in c:program files (or wherever you installed it) and the Pirates of the Burning Sea folder (which it creates in 'my documents') manually after running the uninstall. Otherwise the game leaves hundreds of megabytes of crap on the hard drive.
To those who like the game as it stands:
Great, happy for you. I'm not trying to convince anyone who likes it that they shouldn't. Just putting forth as objective a viewpoint of the game as I can.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I totally agree with the last poster.
The game has some neat ideas, but doesn't do anything really well. Seems every other mmo that comes out trys to sell it's game off a niche market instead of being a good game. Many mmo's go after franchises or era's that haven't been done before to atract people, but the product is of pore quality.
This is a game that given 6months to a year, with needed revenue and development, could be an amazing game. Until then, buyes beware.
Biggest problem they have now is not focusing and building on what is good about the game, and instead trying to include incredibly bad versions of what it doesn't need.
Yeah take what's good and make it better. Stop trying to add more to the list of what the game offers. 3 great things are better than 6 ok-to-bad things.
I'd say:
Make ship combat slightly more fast paced and interesting.
Expand on the really cool crafting they have. (I think one of the best parts of the game)
Do something about the awful avatar/melee system. Great idea to be able to fight on & off the ship, but man it's nasty. They'd be better off making the melee turn based; then what it is currently.
With LOTRO picking up speed, WOW being WOW, & AoC/WAR 3 months away this game doesn't stand a chance as it is. The initial revenue from pirate fans around the world will keep the game afloat, lol afloat, for a little while, but it will quickly sink there after.
See, I'd say they should have never messed with avatar combat...let alone promote it. It's not good, it's not close to being good, and it's unneeded unless you actually want it to be compared to the games that specialize in it.
AoC is going to suck, btw, but if they hadn't messed with avatar combat at all instead of 200 "the avatar combat sucks" posts, they'd have maybe 20 "why isn't there avatar combat" posts and 200 "MAN the ship combat rocks posts" in it's place.
I'm a big DDO guy, and every single time DDO has ventured into the "mainstream" by trying to do things other MMO's do instead of keeping up what they're great at...huge mistake.
Same can happen here.
This is a pretty spot on assesment and describes my beta experience. I played a pirate and naval officer to 26. After that, Just couldn't get excited about playing it.
thanks for the great review of this game some reviews seem to be made by people that are connected to the game , you review was fair with valid points i was about to buy the game even tho i start classes the 7th after reading your post i will wait a couple of months and read what real players say. again thanks you saved me time and money both of which i dont have or like wasting.
nice write up Taram. I've been on the fence about this game, good to see a detailed write up instead of the usual flaming.
See you in space mate.
_________________________________
playing:
ww2online: Fader
EVE: Fader Bane
proud member of BKB http://www.bkbhq.com/
Thanks for the review. I have come to the same conclusion and am waiting a few months on this game to see where it goes.
I disagree on voiceovers. I've never played a game where voiceovers added anything really except the Grand Theft Auto games and there it was more trying to guess the celebrity than anything about the voice itself. The only time I notice voiceovers is when they're done badly. I still hate that one guy in Code Veronica because he had an annoying voice.
I agree that the lack of society tools is a big mistake. Societies will be what keeps this game going. Those who like it will really like it and want to stick around and play with their friends, organize fleets and production lines a la EVE. There need to be more society tools for that.
Ah well, thanks again for your thoughts
p.s. what year is it? :P
I don't like that review in many form.
For one, i feel you put too much things "you" want instead what people want in general.
It is 2008, but we still aren't flying with cars in the air as Disney predict. You can't expect a game developped long time with things just came out yesterday.
MMORPG are completely different, since the stuff you play lately is the innovation of new ideas and latest trend, you can't expect the developper put what EQ2 have to offer when the game started their developpment 2 years ahead of EQ2.
Meanwhile Societies in this game serve basically just a new chat window and it should stay that way. Why? what is the point of having a guild in this game since the PORT VS PORT is base on a lottery. While crafts only need interaction with each other to outsource for their material.
A bank is nevertheless useless and ruin the game as players now can all meet up and put their junk into a place for mass production which will RUIN the game as these society KEEPING materials in their BANK over Auction house REDUCE supply.
As your economy 101 teacher, supply decrease mean increase in price and reduce quality.
and
voice over is not a need.... i mute every sound possible as i play with VENTRILO on society vent.... I don't want to brother to listen to NPC talk.
LAST thing is.
THIS IS NOT A SINGLE PLAYER GAME.... it is YOU who play it that way. FFXI is NOT A TEAM PLAYER game... it is YOU who want to SEEK instead of playing a beastmaster!.
in the end, you can GROUP up with people and do higher level missions and gain LEVEL faster. I always group with 3-4 people and head to higher level port to run missions, because its fun.
WoW have alot SOLO content... it doesn't MAKE wow a solo game does it?
none
My guild / society begs to differ about your society = another chat window theory. Societies work on the economy together, form groups together in PVE and PVP. SOCIETY GROUPS work together to build contention, and as a result have a bigger chance in the lottery. Don't try to trivialise us please.
Linna
Linna
I'm not sure you understand what a review is...
Actually this isn't happening. While it's certainly true that societies are doing most of their production in-house (especially the national PvP-oriented societies), there isn't much of a market at all for stuff on the AH -- again, precisely because the biggest consumers of the stuff (people who are PvPing and losing ships/fittings) are self-sufficient within their societies. That leaves the AH as a place for soloists to buy things, but the game totally discourages guildless play due to the way the economy is set up, so really you may sell a few things to a few n00bs, but once people learn that the economy is basically all taken in-house into the big societies in a given faction, then they will join one of these and will also leave the AH market.
The economy is pretty close to being broken as a functioning market at this stage.
Actually this isn't happening. While it's certainly true that societies are doing most of their production in-house (especially the national PvP-oriented societies), there isn't much of a market at all for stuff on the AH -- again, precisely because the biggest consumers of the stuff (people who are PvPing and losing ships/fittings) are self-sufficient within their societies. That leaves the AH as a place for soloists to buy things, but the game totally discourages guildless play due to the way the economy is set up, so really you may sell a few things to a few n00bs, but once people learn that the economy is basically all taken in-house into the big societies in a given faction, then they will join one of these and will also leave the AH market.
The economy is pretty close to being broken as a functioning market at this stage.
The economy is currently stagnated because everyone has been level capped, and the demand below level 21 is NOTHING compared to the demand once the bigger ships get into the game. The amounts of wood needed alone go up almost exponentially. There are also far fewer deeds per build once you get over 30 (2 deeds, in stead of the 3-5 for the lower level ships), and less durability per ship. And don't even get me started on the ammo needs for the big ships. 24 guns per broadside sound nice, until you realise that's a crate of ammo per 4 broadsides.Current problems, in other words, are not the result of an inherent problem due to guilds working internally, but of the cap that was imposed. Once we get a mature economy, you'll see rapid changes.
Linna