I totally agree. Games that are more stylized and deviate from the "I want to look real" approach are MUCH more attractive to me.
I mean, who cares about reality...you can create something that is completely unique. Trying to base games on a realistic world kind of seems like a cop-out to me.
I used to be a fan of realistic graphics, and I was even really cautious to ever pick up WoW. However, the moment I loaded up my character I was amazed at the ambience and environment. I didn't really care that my character was so unrealistic because he fit into a huge and detailed world, albeit a little cartoony.
I'd much rather have WoW's cartoony yet well-done world over a game that had stunning human features and a bleak and boring world. That's one of my big problems with EverQuest 2; nearly everywhere outside of Faydwer feels like a claustrophobic, shoddy mishmash of ruddy colors.
Originally posted by methodd The only reason why WoW's graphic was acceptable to me were animations, in combat characters looked good, not like in many other games, slow and plastic. There is no other reason I could prefer cartoonish graphic over realistic. A good example is EVE - smooth, realistic graphics and you don't even need a very good video card (Of course if you want premium graphics, aka DX10, you need a superior system), I'm playing EVE smoothly on my laptop with 128mb integrated Intel video card. I'm not against graphics requiring better pc's, I like to play a game with decent graphic. In this world you have to pay for everything - for video game graphic too.
Like someone previously said - If you can't afford a porsche, don't go to carshow (I guess something like that, but you get the idea).
So in other words, lets be elitist since only us few can afford an alienware computer, and the rest can stick it, right? got it, thanks for letting us know.
You don't need technology and five billion dollar computers to have a great looking game, just talented artists that are ready to put the effort in. That's why EQ2 fails where WoW succeeds, in the graphics. EQ2 tried to cover up its terrible art with its technology, and the game generally looks like ass (if you don't count those sad people who think specular lighting and water effects make up for bad art). WoW used minimal polygons and covered it up with fantastically painted textures and animations that are full of life and personality, things which take time money and effort.
although I'll pretty much admire any games look if they pick a style and do well at it, I think I kinda prefer the kinda realistic look that isn't brown and drab. Guild wars and L2 are good examples that do this pretty good even though L2 obviously has its anime influences
I like when gaming companies push the limits of there art, there is a game for everyone, i like em all, but i do to a degree like a more realistic element to my games, which is probably why i favor eq2 or lotro and eve i play as well, i also play sotnw which is somewhere inbetween ultra real crisp and some odd make believe place, but as i see it the further games accell in technology the sooner the prices drop on mid grade comp parts thus enabling average non tech savy people to get the best of both worlds.
To me it seems that MMO's are trying to take more of a "Realistic Look" for MMO's. It does not look right in my opinion. I think there trying to keep up with consoles graphic capability, But thats not good for PC gamers. A good percent of PC holders can handle extreme graphics, Most cant.
Gosh I'm sick of people trying to argue that MMO's should run on their freaking Pentium2. PC gaming costs. I don't care if you "don't want cutting edge graphics" I don't care if you think most people won't/can't upgrade their computers.
Go buy a console and shut up for crying out loud. We want great graphics and a great game. LotRO was a great example Graphics rocked on high-end and the people with the crappy 486's could play too. Yes there is a place for scalability. But the PC is always going to push the envelope as it should.
i agree.. only one thing i noticed with games when the graphics are pushed TOO much.. the game comes out and noone can run it on high settings without trouble.. then a year later STILL noone can run it on high setting.. its almost like they pushed it to the extreme edge and later technology abandoned that method because it was unstable and found a better way to do it
Companies should just allow diverse graphic options so all computers can play. EQ1 had it right by offering the old original models and updated ones, though many would argue that the newer ones are rubbish
I heard that WoW refuses to upgrade its character models in fear that whiney players would cry about their characters being changed. I don't see why they can't just make new models and make it optional though
and considering that EvE just upgraded all of their ship models and textures for free with a subscriber base of only 300k (last time I heard) then blizzard doesn't really have much reason NOT to do it other than their lame one they have now
i agree.. only one thing i noticed with games when the graphics are pushed TOO much.. the game comes out and noone can run it on high settings without trouble.. then a year later STILL noone can run it on high setting.. its almost like they pushed it to the extreme edge and later technology abandoned that method because it was unstable and found a better way to do it
I've yet to play a game i couldn't run on high settings.
More OT. I keep my PC updated, yes it costs me a lot of money but it's my money. If i want an MMO to have great graphics i'm not going to think for even a second about those with poor PC's, they can turn the damn resolution and setting down low and get on with it whilst secretly wishing they had a decent PC to play the game as it's meant to be played for all i care. Why should people give a toss if others have crap machines?
Some of you like your "stylised" games, others of us like things to push the boundaries of what can be done. Therefore those with low end PC's with different preferences should just stick to what they like rather than complaining about the games that the rest of us like/want.
Companies should just allow diverse graphic options so all computers can play. EQ1 had it right by offering the old original models and updated ones, though many would argue that the newer ones are rubbish
There's a point where they have to say enough is enough though. Why should they spend so much money catering after old tech? To a certain extent yes, but not so much that it costs them so much money to create the game in the first place for [i]everyone's[/i] PC.
There are people trying to play todays MMO's with 256MB ram and Pentiums that would be lucky to power a calculator. You've all seen the posts on MMO forums "This game is broken HELP!!!! I have 256MB RAM, 800mhz CPU and no graphics card.... why wont this noob game work!!!!!1111!". As time moves on, so does technology and unfortunately some are going to get left behind.
Well since these games tend to rely on the players to have fun (unless you're one of those people who gets off from doing stat number calculations and grinding by ones lonesome self), they want the game to be as acsessible as possible. That's one of the contributing reasons as to why WoW has so many players, even people with older rigs can still play it, and not have it look that horrible either!
And a lot of people have already been turned off by vanguard because of the fact that they could barely run it when it first came out, and a lot of them probably will never come back. Just that incident has begun vanguard on the path to doom
Well since these games tend to rely on the players to have fun (unless you're one of those people who gets off from doing stat number calculations and grinding by ones lonesome self), they want the game to be as acsessible as possible. That's one of the contributing reasons as to why WoW has so many players, even people with older rigs can still play it, and not have it look that horrible either!
And a lot of people have already been turned off by vanguard because of the fact that they could barely run it when it first came out, and a lot of them probably will never come back. Just that incident has begun vanguard on the path to doom
First of all: Vanguard is a bad game. It looks like crap. The high system requirments are due to bad code. Again, I point to LotRO to give an example of a great graphical scalability. NEVER use Vanguard as an example of good graphics - they suck. Bad.
Second: I agree that numbers are needed. I simply think that at some point the PC has to play to it's only strong point over consoles and that is graphics.
Regardless of how people like to play, it's only inevitable that graphics are moving on. They wouldn't be if the demand wasn't there, games like Conan just would not be under development.
Most of the issues with Vanguard were due to very poor coding and optimisation nto because the graphics were too good for people's PC's.
Yeah, if you have two games that have the same exact gameplay but one has crap for graphics and the other looks fantastic, obviously everyones going to choose the fantastic looking game. For me, killing enemies that have glorious death animations or pulling off attacks that have equally awesome animations is just so much more satisfying than if it looks like a normal attack or just cruddy in general
Well since these games tend to rely on the players to have fun (unless you're one of those people who gets off from doing stat number calculations and grinding by ones lonesome self), they want the game to be as acsessible as possible. That's one of the contributing reasons as to why WoW has so many players, even people with older rigs can still play it, and not have it look that horrible either!
And a lot of people have already been turned off by vanguard because of the fact that they could barely run it when it first came out, and a lot of them probably will never come back. Just that incident has begun vanguard on the path to doom
First of all: Vanguard is a bad game. It looks like crap. The high system requirments are due to bad code. Again, I point to LotRO to give an example of a great graphical scalability. NEVER use Vanguard as an example of good graphics - they suck. Bad.
Second: I agree that numbers are needed. I simply think that at some point the PC has to play to it's only strong point over consoles and that is graphics.
well I agree that the game looks like garbage, but I was under the impression that the technology was just too good for it's time. I guess a better example would have been EQ2, extreme technology for its time, but lookwise: garbage.
But when do you stop upgrading graphics just for the sake of better graphics?
This pusuit for better and better graphics in MMOs has led to the current decline of MMOs.
Companies are spending years and years on an MMOs graphics and then very little time to gameplay and immersion.
Instead of incredible graphics that very few will be able to appreciate why dont the MMO developers spend all that time and money to making a game thats just not another pretty "WoW clone".
Great graphics can make a great game better but great graphics cant make a bad game good.
But when do you stop upgrading graphics just for the sake of better graphics? This pusuit for better and better graphics in MMOs has led to the current decline of MMOs. Companies are spending years and years on an MMOs graphics and then very little time to gameplay and immersion. Instead of incredible graphics that very few will be able to appreciate why dont the MMO developers spend all that time and money to making a game thats just not another pretty "WoW clone". Great graphics can make a great game better but great graphics cant make a bad game good.
because a lot of people will refuse to play a game if it's not pretty, and if a game is very pretty it leads to misconceptions that it's actually very good (atleast until they play it, after they've bought it)
But when do you stop upgrading graphics just for the sake of better graphics? This pusuit for better and better graphics in MMOs has led to the current decline of MMOs. Companies are spending years and years on an MMOs graphics and then very little time to gameplay and immersion. Instead of incredible graphics that very few will be able to appreciate why dont the MMO developers spend all that time and money to making a game thats just not another pretty "WoW clone". Great graphics can make a great game better but great graphics cant make a bad game good.
I disagree. I think the decline is a result of everyone trying to be WoW when WoW does it just fine and is established. With WAR and AOC coming out hopefully things will change.
Anyone that thinks console graphics are better than a decent and higher PC's are retards.
Go to a gameshop where they sell consoles and games, most console players think there cutting edge of tech and game wise lol, maybe not all but most are not very smart, thinking console is cutting edge and pc follow console:P
Btw Gameplay is most importend then grafics.
Darkfall those it right superb gameplay, alot of revolutionairy game elements and good grafics but balanced, so most can play it.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I consider the following as levels of importance for a games back end, look and feel:
Network client; it does not matter how good or bad the textures, animations, graphics and physics are, if the client is not really efficient then its going to play like a slide show when there is a lot happening. Usually, when this is the case it will be on large scale raids or high population pvp, the two critical times when you really want things running well.
Physics; if the relationship between the animations and the world do not match up then the game is going to feel out of sync and just wrong. I put this in because it can be really off putting when control response does not correspond to the animation, not bad animation or network latency just poorly implemented world physics.
Graphics engine; the engine needs to be as efficient as possible and give a good range of options to lighten the overhead of the game world as much as possible and even change of the fly the FoV, LoD, etc as more objects come into play.
Animations; if the animations are not fluid or feel natural and intuitive then it just feels wrong. If the animations are stiff, jerky, unnaturally slow or fast then its a game I cant bare to play for very long.
Graphics; the least important part of the games look and feel to me, I would prefer to play a game that ran well with a lot happening than one that is visually stunning when its empty. Of course if the engine is good enough to have nice graphics and run well with lots of action I will take that too.
The only reason why WoW's graphic was acceptable to me were animations, in combat characters looked good, not like in many other games, slow and plastic. There is no other reason I could prefer cartoonish graphic over realistic. A good example is EVE - smooth, realistic graphics and you don't even need a very good video card (Of course if you want premium graphics, aka DX10, you need a superior system), I'm playing EVE smoothly on my laptop with 128mb integrated Intel video card. I'm not against graphics requiring better pc's, I like to play a game with decent graphic. In this world you have to pay for everything - for video game graphic too.
Like someone previously said - If you can't afford a porsche, don't go to carshow (I guess something like that, but you get the idea).
Eve does not use DX10 so a top end card is not needed for the premium graphics. The graphics update in trinity was to DX9, not DX10.
Comments
I totally agree. Games that are more stylized and deviate from the "I want to look real" approach are MUCH more attractive to me.
I mean, who cares about reality...you can create something that is completely unique. Trying to base games on a realistic world kind of seems like a cop-out to me.
Anywho...bottom line is, I agree.
I used to be a fan of realistic graphics, and I was even really cautious to ever pick up WoW. However, the moment I loaded up my character I was amazed at the ambience and environment. I didn't really care that my character was so unrealistic because he fit into a huge and detailed world, albeit a little cartoony.
I'd much rather have WoW's cartoony yet well-done world over a game that had stunning human features and a bleak and boring world. That's one of my big problems with EverQuest 2; nearly everywhere outside of Faydwer feels like a claustrophobic, shoddy mishmash of ruddy colors.
And I'm no WoW fanboy... I hate that game.
So in other words, lets be elitist since only us few can afford an alienware computer, and the rest can stick it, right? got it, thanks for letting us know.
You don't need technology and five billion dollar computers to have a great looking game, just talented artists that are ready to put the effort in. That's why EQ2 fails where WoW succeeds, in the graphics. EQ2 tried to cover up its terrible art with its technology, and the game generally looks like ass (if you don't count those sad people who think specular lighting and water effects make up for bad art). WoW used minimal polygons and covered it up with fantastically painted textures and animations that are full of life and personality, things which take time money and effort.
although I'll pretty much admire any games look if they pick a style and do well at it, I think I kinda prefer the kinda realistic look that isn't brown and drab. Guild wars and L2 are good examples that do this pretty good even though L2 obviously has its anime influences
I like when gaming companies push the limits of there art, there is a game for everyone, i like em all, but i do to a degree like a more realistic element to my games, which is probably why i favor eq2 or lotro and eve i play as well, i also play sotnw which is somewhere inbetween ultra real crisp and some odd make believe place, but as i see it the further games accell in technology the sooner the prices drop on mid grade comp parts thus enabling average non tech savy people to get the best of both worlds.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Go buy a console and shut up for crying out loud. We want great graphics and a great game. LotRO was a great example Graphics rocked on high-end and the people with the crappy 486's could play too. Yes there is a place for scalability. But the PC is always going to push the envelope as it should.
i agree.. only one thing i noticed with games when the graphics are pushed TOO much.. the game comes out and noone can run it on high settings without trouble.. then a year later STILL noone can run it on high setting.. its almost like they pushed it to the extreme edge and later technology abandoned that method because it was unstable and found a better way to do it
Companies should just allow diverse graphic options so all computers can play. EQ1 had it right by offering the old original models and updated ones, though many would argue that the newer ones are rubbish
I heard that WoW refuses to upgrade its character models in fear that whiney players would cry about their characters being changed. I don't see why they can't just make new models and make it optional though
and considering that EvE just upgraded all of their ship models and textures for free with a subscriber base of only 300k (last time I heard) then blizzard doesn't really have much reason NOT to do it other than their lame one they have now
More OT. I keep my PC updated, yes it costs me a lot of money but it's my money. If i want an MMO to have great graphics i'm not going to think for even a second about those with poor PC's, they can turn the damn resolution and setting down low and get on with it whilst secretly wishing they had a decent PC to play the game as it's meant to be played for all i care. Why should people give a toss if others have crap machines?
Some of you like your "stylised" games, others of us like things to push the boundaries of what can be done. Therefore those with low end PC's with different preferences should just stick to what they like rather than complaining about the games that the rest of us like/want.
There are people trying to play todays MMO's with 256MB ram and Pentiums that would be lucky to power a calculator. You've all seen the posts on MMO forums "This game is broken HELP!!!! I have 256MB RAM, 800mhz CPU and no graphics card.... why wont this noob game work!!!!!1111!". As time moves on, so does technology and unfortunately some are going to get left behind.
Well since these games tend to rely on the players to have fun (unless you're one of those people who gets off from doing stat number calculations and grinding by ones lonesome self), they want the game to be as acsessible as possible. That's one of the contributing reasons as to why WoW has so many players, even people with older rigs can still play it, and not have it look that horrible either!
And a lot of people have already been turned off by vanguard because of the fact that they could barely run it when it first came out, and a lot of them probably will never come back. Just that incident has begun vanguard on the path to doom
First of all: Vanguard is a bad game. It looks like crap. The high system requirments are due to bad code. Again, I point to LotRO to give an example of a great graphical scalability. NEVER use Vanguard as an example of good graphics - they suck. Bad.
Second: I agree that numbers are needed. I simply think that at some point the PC has to play to it's only strong point over consoles and that is graphics.
Regardless of how people like to play, it's only inevitable that graphics are moving on. They wouldn't be if the demand wasn't there, games like Conan just would not be under development.
Most of the issues with Vanguard were due to very poor coding and optimisation nto because the graphics were too good for people's PC's.
I really don't care about graphics as long as the gameplay is solid.
But, gameplay being equal - a better looking game is better.
Yeah, if you have two games that have the same exact gameplay but one has crap for graphics and the other looks fantastic, obviously everyones going to choose the fantastic looking game. For me, killing enemies that have glorious death animations or pulling off attacks that have equally awesome animations is just so much more satisfying than if it looks like a normal attack or just cruddy in general
First of all: Vanguard is a bad game. It looks like crap. The high system requirments are due to bad code. Again, I point to LotRO to give an example of a great graphical scalability. NEVER use Vanguard as an example of good graphics - they suck. Bad.
Second: I agree that numbers are needed. I simply think that at some point the PC has to play to it's only strong point over consoles and that is graphics.
well I agree that the game looks like garbage, but I was under the impression that the technology was just too good for it's time. I guess a better example would have been EQ2, extreme technology for its time, but lookwise: garbage.
Anyone that thinks console graphics are better than a decent and higher PC's are retards.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
But when do you stop upgrading graphics just for the sake of better graphics?
This pusuit for better and better graphics in MMOs has led to the current decline of MMOs.
Companies are spending years and years on an MMOs graphics and then very little time to gameplay and immersion.
Instead of incredible graphics that very few will be able to appreciate why dont the MMO developers spend all that time and money to making a game thats just not another pretty "WoW clone".
Great graphics can make a great game better but great graphics cant make a bad game good.
because a lot of people will refuse to play a game if it's not pretty, and if a game is very pretty it leads to misconceptions that it's actually very good (atleast until they play it, after they've bought it)
I disagree. I think the decline is a result of everyone trying to be WoW when WoW does it just fine and is established. With WAR and AOC coming out hopefully things will change.
Btw Gameplay is most importend then grafics.
Darkfall those it right superb gameplay, alot of revolutionairy game elements and good grafics but balanced, so most can play it.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
I consider the following as levels of importance for a games back end, look and feel:
Network client; it does not matter how good or bad the textures, animations, graphics and physics are, if the client is not really efficient then its going to play like a slide show when there is a lot happening. Usually, when this is the case it will be on large scale raids or high population pvp, the two critical times when you really want things running well.
Physics; if the relationship between the animations and the world do not match up then the game is going to feel out of sync and just wrong. I put this in because it can be really off putting when control response does not correspond to the animation, not bad animation or network latency just poorly implemented world physics.
Graphics engine; the engine needs to be as efficient as possible and give a good range of options to lighten the overhead of the game world as much as possible and even change of the fly the FoV, LoD, etc as more objects come into play.
Animations; if the animations are not fluid or feel natural and intuitive then it just feels wrong. If the animations are stiff, jerky, unnaturally slow or fast then its a game I cant bare to play for very long.
Graphics; the least important part of the games look and feel to me, I would prefer to play a game that ran well with a lot happening than one that is visually stunning when its empty. Of course if the engine is good enough to have nice graphics and run well with lots of action I will take that too.
You shall look no further than LOTRO ...
Turbine learned a lot
They made superior graphic MMO
1. It is superbly quality/performance effective
2. It manages to create wide open spaces
3. Character style is a blend of stylised and realistic - thus avoiding "uncanny valley"
4. No shiny shiny plastic wrapper feel of everything is wet and slimy and bumpy look
Eve does not use DX10 so a top end card is not needed for the premium graphics. The graphics update in trinity was to DX9, not DX10.