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SOE Sale to India: 100% False, John Smedley
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I'm an Indian, and I would really like to know why we Indians would be bad at running an MMO compared to western companies. Care to answer?
Since apparently this has spawned a lovely discussion here, I guess I should elaborate. Basically its two fold.
EDIT: Another thing to keep in mind is that when I stated this, I was under the impression they were going to take over all aspects of the game, not just media and basic software frameworks.
A: Being the societal disconnect, which would be an issue with any country that didn't regularly deal with and understand western values. Different cultures have different ideas of "fun". That disconnect is seem most often in various asian mmos that find their way to the US. Generally they are heavily modified to appeal to western audiences. Granted, theres nothing saying they can't research it and modify it accordingly themselves, but the point being, why bother risking an issue in the first place?
B: Second is more personal opinion. Purely from my experience with Indian managers and co-workers, while I believe they would do absolutely great at running an MMO as a business, I believe they would most likely fall short in the department of keeping the game fun and connecting with the players. Granted, that wouldn't be a terrible loss as SoE has a hard time doing both anyway. This is not indicative of all Indian workers I'm sure, but as I said, from personal experience working with quite a few Indian co-workers and managers here in the US, they seem to be very shrude and about the bottom line and less concerned about the customers. I believe this lack of customer focus is a negative aspect for an MMO.
If there is a large difference between what I have experienced and how people interact over there, I would be happy to hear it. The fact that my co-workers are part of a rather rich/influential family apparently may have some baring on their behavior. Either way, I stand by what I said, but if anyone would like to (rationally please) correct me, I am more than willing to listen to reason.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
But what I wonder was it the fact that SOE was planning on making Ramayan 3392 A.D that drew the interest of Anil Ambani and his Zapak Digital entertainment.
On Nov. 28th this made news -Speaking to Reuters today, SOE vice president of business development and international operations David Christensen said that the publisher is looking to set up a game-development shop in India. "Our goal is to have an office in India," he said. "We have identified a couple of game developers in India and we are in talks with them." SOE will reportedly lend technical expertise to the studio, while an Indian outfit will focus on the underlying framework and marketing aspects of the operation.
/Churchlady "Well , Isn't that convienant?"
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Yes he could, except it would be highly illegal and would threaten any deals they had going on/may result in fines. There is a reason you can't discuss those things, it's not just because they think its fun.
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Hey i'm just trying to 'to stop people saying stupid things'
Yes he could, except it would be highly illegal and would threaten any deals they had going on/may result in fines. There is a reason you can't discuss those things, it's not just because they think its fun.
I'm not necessarily doubting you but under what context is denying this illegal? I can understand confirming it being illegal, but I don't understand how denying it is.
Yes he could, except it would be highly illegal and would threaten any deals they had going on/may result in fines. There is a reason you can't discuss those things, it's not just because they think its fun.
I'm not necessarily doubting you but under what context is denying this illegal? I can understand confirming it being illegal, but I don't understand how denying it is.
As I was made to understand last time the issue of merger came up, it was illegal for them to make statements either way as it could influence stockholder position. Feel free to correct me anyone.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
I'm an Indian, and I would really like to know why we Indians would be bad at running an MMO compared to western companies. Care to answer?
I believe it is a cultural thing. For example, I would have no idea what people in India really like so how can Indians know what Americans like?Our IT industry is only moving to India due to low cost, not because Indians are better Developers. Low price does not equal a good product.
Oh really ? So now it's a cultural thing is it? You said Indians couldn't run an MMO, but now it's a cultural thing. So basically you're saying American Culture and tastes are somehow better than my own or that of other Indians ?
By the sounds of it, you've never been abroad and know nothing about India but you're quite quick judge what Indians are all about.
You're IT industry is moving to India because of low cost and the same or better quality than available in your country. We wouldn't be one of the fastest developing countries in the world if we were all about low cost and shoddy workmanship.
If you want to be a racist, go ahead and be one, but don't try to clothe it in a sea of respectable speech and ill thought out logic.
Oh really ? So now it's a cultural thing is it? You said Indians couldn't run an MMO, but now it's a cultural thing. So basically you're saying American Culture and tastes are somehow better than my own or that of other Indians ?
I do not know his beliefs but nowhere in there statement did he mention the superiority of any culture only noted that there are differences. He admitted to being ignorant to Indian culture and assumed that an average Indian would probably be somewhat ignorant of American culture. He also never stated that Indians couldn't run an MMO only that he did not think it would do well.
By the sounds of it, you've never been abroad and know nothing about India but you're quite quick judge what Indians are all about.
again he admitted to not knowing anything about Indian culture...
You're IT industry is moving to India because of low cost and the same or better quality than available in your country. We wouldn't be one of the fastest developing countries in the world if we were all about low cost and shoddy workmanship.
Money is king, that is the reason our IT industry is moving to India. People willing to do the same job for less. He never said Indians were worse developers than Americans simply that the moving of business was not due to superior quality and service, not saying that quality is or isn't superior, just that the quality is not the driving factor.
If you want to be a racist, go ahead and be one, but don't try to clothe it in a sea of respectable speech and ill thought out logic.
please highlight any racist remarks that were said. If anything these comments came off as being the intolerant ones.
First things first. He stated low cost is not equal to good quality and also stated that IT was only moving to India due to low cost. I don't need to be a brain surgeoon to figure out what that means.
You say money is king and low cost is the reason IT is moving to India. However, do you know that most large Indian IT companies now outsource part of their work to countries like Mexico, USA, UK etc. Using your scale for measurement, wonder what that says about those countries. Not to mention, all the new R&D facilities being opened up in India by western multinationals...they must really be attracted by the cheap labor and poor quality work we do.
And if you know nothing about the culture of a country, {Mod Edit}. And as a gamer, how would you know if Indians taste in games is much different from yours if you know nothing about Indians in the first place.
Oh and before you make blanket statements about how Indian companies runnign MMO's won't do well...care to explain why? Making such a statement with nothing to back it up, just reeks of prejudice and nothing else.
Very nice of you to jump on and try to support that guy, but your spin is weak.
Ps. I don't make sweeping generalisations about other people countries or their capabilities and I don't stand for people doing the same to mine. If you don't like it....tough.
just to end this
Average UK wage for a Developer with 5 years exeperiance - 25 to 30k - thats (at current conversion rates) around 50 to 60k US$
Average Indian Wage for a developer with 5 years experiance (as reported by the world trade Organsiation) 7k US$
its as simple as that - the Indians will work longer hours at the same quality for cheaper - neither developer is better but one is FAR cheaper
oh and why a MMORPG run by an Indian company wouldnt work well in a Western Market? well take a look at some Asian MMO's - not many have hit big in the west for a reason
We all know the only reason companies outsource labor to India is because they can get the work done for pennies on the dollar. I don't see anything racist about admitting that fact. There is also no racial motivation behind me saying that you get what you pay for. If you want to pay your developers a tenth of what they would make working in the Western world, do you really expect to have the same quality of work to come out of them.
To say that people of Indian descent are less capable of making MMO would be racist, but that isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about developing and developing and running games in India.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Yes he could, except it would be highly illegal and would threaten any deals they had going on/may result in fines. There is a reason you can't discuss those things, it's not just because they think its fun.
I'm not necessarily doubting you but under what context is denying this illegal? I can understand confirming it being illegal, but I don't understand how denying it is.
As I was made to understand last time the issue of merger came up, it was illegal for them to make statements either way as it could influence stockholder position. Feel free to correct me anyone.
You may be correct but since the financial activities of SOE are hidden in Sony Pictures numbers , who would care or for that matter be able to track the effect in the first place.In check wikipedia - here is a little info about the new buyer -
Anil Ambani (born June 4, 1959) is an Indian businessman. As of October 6th 2007, he has a net-worth of US$45 billion, making him the 6th richest person in the world. His was the world's fastest-growing multi-billion-dollar fortune in percentage terms as his wealth tripled in 1 year. [1] Ambani is chairman of Reliance Capital, Reliance Communications and Chairman & Managing Director, Reliance Energy, and was formerly Vice Chairman and Managing Director of Reliance Industries Limited. His personal stake in Reliance Communications is 66%.[1]. Reliance group is India's largest business house, founded by Anil's late father Dhirubhai Ambani (1938-2002). His mother is Kokilaben Ambani. He is married to Tina Ambani(Munim) who was a well known Indian Actress in early 80's, and with whom he has two sons: Jai Anmol and Jai Anshul.
The total investors' wealth in the four Anil Ambani Group firms -- Reliance Communications (RCOM), Reliance Capital (RCL), Reliance Energy (REL) and Reliance Natural Resources Ltd (RNRL) has reached 1,42,384 crore rupees, while total promoter holding is estimated at about Rs 87,000 crore. Anil's wealth comes mostly from his over 65 per cent stake in RCOM, which has a market cap of about Rs 1,03,000 crore. He also has over 50 per cent in RCL (market cap of Rs 24,000 crore), 35 per cent in REL (market cap of Rs 12,700 crore) and close to 54 per cent in RNRL, which has a market cap of about Rs 2,600 crore.[2].
As of 6th October 2007, his net worth was calculated at $45 billion. [2]
My guess is he can afford to buy SOE.
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Hell, he looks like he can afford all of Sony!
My guess is he can afford to buy SOE.
So could a great deal of other companies and people. SoE isn't getting purchased unless they give up majority control, which they have a say in. Bottom line, they're not selling unless they want to. Besides, if they're so interested and can buy anything then want, why not just go after the big bucks and buy Vivendi and snag WoW. Just having the money doesn't make the purchase go through.
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EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Regardless if this is a hoax or not it is undeniable that these are interesting times for SOE, and Sony has a whole.
I suspect some pretty big changes are coming, for good or ill, and I for one will be watching closely. As SOE is one of the bigger players of the MMO market, what happens to them has the potential to reverberate through the industry. Let us just hope that the ripples SOE creates are positive to us as gamers, and not setting the industry back in a negative way.
Tomorrow, while sipping eggnog and hanging the stockings with care , who knew that Santa Clause was really Ganesha?
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-Apu
I'm an Indian, and I would really like to know why we Indians would be bad at running an MMO compared to western companies. Care to answer?
I believe it is a cultural thing. For example, I would have no idea what people in India really like so how can Indians know what Americans like?Our IT industry is only moving to India due to low cost, not because Indians are better Developers. Low price does not equal a good product.
Oh really ? So now it's a cultural thing is it? You said Indians couldn't run an MMO, but now it's a cultural thing. So basically you're saying American Culture and tastes are somehow better than my own or that of other Indians ?
By the sounds of it, you've never been abroad and know nothing about India but you're quite quick judge what Indians are all about.
You're IT industry is moving to India because of low cost and the same or better quality than available in your country. We wouldn't be one of the fastest developing countries in the world if we were all about low cost and shoddy workmanship.
If you want to be a racist, go ahead and be one, but don't try to clothe it in a sea of respectable speech and ill thought out logic.
So paying people a fraction of what North American and European workers make is a good thing? Nice way to devalue yourselves. And its been my experience that anytime I try and get IT support of any kind from India or any other foreign country it sucks the big one. The people have no idea how to help me or what I'm saying and I have a hard time understanding their English. Don't fool yourself, if Indian workers made as much as others you wouldn't have companies moving there like they are. Just because Indians are content to just have a job that barely keeps them out of poverty doesn't mean the rest of us should have to settle for it. Sadly, because India and other 3rd world countries willingly except less that means the rest of us have to to.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Why would the owners of WoW/Blizzard sell it??? Its a huge cash cow and will be for years to come.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Just the $OE owned games, not every forum.
What Smed has said truthfully could fill a thimble. We're talking one of the most credible Indian news agencies, and Reuters news service. They have far more credibility than Smed could have on a pile of bibles with a lie detector strapped to him and his veins filled with sodium pentethol.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Yes he could, except it would be highly illegal and would threaten any deals they had going on/may result in fines. There is a reason you can't discuss those things, it's not just because they think its fun.
I'm not necessarily doubting you but under what context is denying this illegal? I can understand confirming it being illegal, but I don't understand how denying it is.
As I was made to understand last time the issue of merger came up, it was illegal for them to make statements either way as it could influence stockholder position. Feel free to correct me anyone.
You are correct, sir. Smed legally can't say they're being bought until it is official according to trading laws. There has to be a negotiated offer on the table, and the article clearly stated they haven't closed the deal.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
OK, the original link to the India page that started all this is dead now. What happend?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Zapak_set_to_buy_out_Sony_Online_for_300_mn/articleshow/2643807.cms
They discovered it was a rumor, not news, and removed it.
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EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Lol...
Any of you honestly beleives, that Sony would sell one of its only divisions thats in the green?
Thats just hillarious. Without SoE Sony would be close to going out of business. Most of their company is in the red lately.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
A preview of things to come from India.
I have been accused of being a "shill" here and a "hater" in my BOYCOTT SOE topic.
The only thing I support is the truth.
-----
WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
What you fail to grasp is that a tenth of what you consider to be menial is actually a high paying job in Indian. You people seem not to understand the valuation/de-valuation of currency and how it differs from country to country.
I think most of you folks need to go back and take econ 101 classes all over again or admit you have no clue about what you are talking about. The wages plus benefits earned by a IT professional in India are actually very competitive for their nation's job market. What some might consider to be pennies on the dollar in the US is actually a very well payed overseas job with very nice benefits equal to if not surpassing what a company could offer a US worker. This is why companies like Microsoft, IBM, Novell, etc... have setup huge campuses and schools in countries like India to further harvest more highly qualified IT and engineering individuals at a very low cost to them in US dollars.
On a side not if the US Dollar keeps tanking to the Euro as stands then you'll might see the same trend over here as well. European companies might see it more economically beneficial to outsource work to the US then to keep it in Europe.