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What MMO Was/Is Better Than AC1?
Grenfell
Member Posts: 9
I wanted to ask this question here, because... I figure you all have played AC1 and many other MMO's as well (quite likely far more than I have).
What MMO have you played since AC1 that you consider to be better than AC1?
Why?
In all seriousness, I don't think I have. AO came close, but nothing compares to the experience of playing Asheron's Call right around the Shadow Wars. Nothing. (And let's not even talk about Darktide -- someone could write a Ph.D. dissertation on community formation, human nature, and economics around that server.)
I'm willing to give any game a try that someone who knew and loved AC1 really considers to be superior to AC1.
/gren
Comments
I have played a lot of MMOs and none have come close to what I experienced in AC (I also played during the shadow wars)
WoW is the only other MMO to keep my interest for a long time aside from AC. Ryzom and Eve also kept me playing for a little.
So far EVE is the only game I've found to be better than AC1. And not in the same ways.. I'll still love AC1's PvP hands-down, but EVE is the only one after years of trying different MMOs that has been able to hold my attention. Class-based games just haven't been able to give me fun like AC's skill/attribute system did. EVE at least gives you the customization for character builds that AC1 did.
There hasn't been one for me yet.
Was with AC from launch for just over 5 years.
AO was a close 2nd since it had a skill/attribute system somewhat similar to AC, although very restrictive. I played that for about a year and a half off and on, but no where near the dedication of AC.
I liked SWG alot at release but it's no where near the game it was then.
Most MMO's seem to be hell bent on premade classes. Granted, I'm sure that makes it easier for the devs to balance content, but if I want 10 focus on my melee guy, I should be allowed to make him that way. The imagination was the limit for the playerbase in AC as far as player creation and that was one of the many things that made it so great. It was a true sandbox MMO, probably of the likes we'll never see again.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
I'm not as pessimistic -- I hope that some intelligent devs out there realize there's a fortune to be made by taking the best ideas of the great games and creating a new sandbox game. AC was such an enormous innovation that I still haven't seen some of its ideas implemented to be equal.
For example... the Patron/Vassal system.
I know the XP chains kinda ruined it, but fact is, I have yet to see an in-game mechanic that really, truly encouraged higher level characters to really help out lower level characters, and provided a solid, tangible benefit to those individuals who took the time and energy and the headaches to run a large guild.
Another example... zoneless, truly vast, truly explorable world.
I haven't seen its like since AC. Remember those Arwic-Qalabar Naked Races? That was no quest designed by devs; it was something the playerbase thought up because the world allowed such a thing. I remember sometimes logging in with nothing to do, nothing planned, and just going running across the Obsidian Plains just to sightsee. Not even WoW offered me that sort of 'questing' experience.
Another example.. the original, scroll-less, spell system in AC1 that had you up for hours on end trying to figure out the taper combination for Lightning Bolt VI. Any archmage you went to, you'd see dozens of mages sitting around yelling "Zojak Quareth" or whatever and fizzing. There was incredible balance built into that system of magic -- yes, it's enormously powerful, but you'd have to spend hours, days even, to gain that power. Just like how a mage should be. And those players who wanted to spend that time were few and far in between -- just like how a mage should be.
The skill-based character builds resulted in some fantastic, original builds. Remember the Grief BM? The 3-school archer? I remember seeing a BM in a PvP duel whip out a Hollow Sword and rip the other mage to shreds. I have never seen such freedom to experiment in ANY other game since AC.
Add in some of the good ideas/good things from other MMO's -- I'm personally in favor of the instanced Random Mission system in AO that you and a few friends can knock out in 20 minutes. Great for those times when you want to do something in a group but don't have hours to do anything major. I loved the freedom of Yalmahas (personal flying vehicles) in AO. The aggro-mechanism of AO was also superb and really allowed for true Tanks, true DPS, true Support. The active combat system of DDO is unparalleled in my experience so far.
And Darktide. What a great world. As long as the devs resisted doing ANY balancing for the sake of PvP, a world like Darktide was and will be an amazing sociological experiment.
I think in time, it'll rise again. The Fifth Generation MMO's are out of ideas. They're trying to spice up the gravy, but forgetting the meat underneath. Eventually, a great developer will arise and harness a great graphics engine (someone license Crysis Engine please) to a great, open-ended game engine and we'll have the game that will redefine the MMORPG genre.
And I suspect it'll be a LOT like Asheron's Call.
/gren
I don't think any game made since AC can be a called a derivative of it. Games like Dark Age of Camelot, World of Warcraft, and Lord of the Rings Online are derivative of Everquest. It is the reason I still play AC, because nobody has made a better one. I almost made the jump to Star Wars Galaxies in the early days, because some of the ideas were derivative from AC, but the game was more a derivative of Ultima Online, and the combat upgrade destroyed any hope for that game. I might try Eve Online if I get bored.
OMG I loved this, "Naked Runs", hell I remember playing AC in the first week and not knowing anything about magic. We thought we were doing good being able to kill level 15 shreths...LOL. Making runs to Qulabar were like a death trap before we learnt about portals. I remember the first time I saw a character opened portal, I clicked on it and was whisked away with my mule to a dungeon where I fell 100ft to start. You all know where I was, I thought wow this is cool, I survived the fall because my mule was a previous character. So I walked down the ramp a bit just to see, and I saw a UA attacking what looked like an insect and there were hundreds behind that one. I was like, "COOL!!" untill one chased me back up the ramp, I quickly exited only to be greeted by 3 more outside that killed me very quickly. I didn't even have time to see where I was on the map, so I had to ask around and found out I was at the BDC, and then I had to find a portal there.
Man the times I had in that game, learning magic, taking on my first 100 Olthoi, meeting my first Tusker. Oh yea and being the first Sword fighter on my server to take down a Diamond Golem the morning of the patch. Took me 15 minutes, oh and we can't forget the White Bunny of doom, I still want to know where the holy hand grenade is in AC to kill that thing...LOL.
The times in AC were great, your character was original, it didn't matter what you did somewhere you were different from everyone around you. One person would do the 10/100/10/100/10 type character but everyone would raise skills differently. Truely a one of a kind MMORPG, and still one of the best.
What game have I played that comes close to AC, I have to say nothing. I have played most of the big titles, but none come close. I thought AO was cool but too many problems from beta to release to almost a year afterwards for me. I would think the only MMORPG that seems like it might come close, but I won't know till it is released or I am in Beta will be "The Chronicals of Spellbourn". I am not saying it will be a match but it might come close, it offers you true skill development which seems good so far.
We won't talk about the biggest joke to an AC1 player ever, the release of AC2. Honestly I gave it a chance had 2 max level characters, a Lugi that set up turrets(can't remember class) and a human Mage. In AC1 your character was defined by your skills, you skills allowed you to survive. How many people who played AC1 remember going into a dungeon and dieing like 5 times and loseing everything. Going back with a store bought weapon and a robe buffed by a nice mage, and retrieving all of your crap? I do it happened to me constantly, I think by level 75 I had like 800 Deaths on one character...LOL. AC2 and I have to say EVERY MMORPG out there, your success is dependent on your gear, not on your skills. Side note the Rogue in WOW although powerful with starter weapons in PVP could not go into a high level instance and help kill Rag, In AC1 you could go into MOST dungons with nothing but your weapon and a robe and survive. At least untill hollow weapons were introduced, then that got a bit dangerous.
So the short answer to the question, "What MMO Was/Is Better Than AC1?" is Nothing touches it.
I'm not as pessimistic -- I hope that some intelligent devs out there realize there's a fortune to be made by taking the best ideas of the great games and creating a new sandbox game. AC was such an enormous innovation that I still haven't seen some of its ideas implemented to be equal.
For example... the Patron/Vassal system.
I know the XP chains kinda ruined it, but fact is, I have yet to see an in-game mechanic that really, truly encouraged higher level characters to really help out lower level characters, and provided a solid, tangible benefit to those individuals who took the time and energy and the headaches to run a large guild.
Another example... zoneless, truly vast, truly explorable world.
I haven't seen its like since AC. Remember those Arwic-Qalabar Naked Races? That was no quest designed by devs; it was something the playerbase thought up because the world allowed such a thing. I remember sometimes logging in with nothing to do, nothing planned, and just going running across the Obsidian Plains just to sightsee. Not even WoW offered me that sort of 'questing' experience.
Another example.. the original, scroll-less, spell system in AC1 that had you up for hours on end trying to figure out the taper combination for Lightning Bolt VI. Any archmage you went to, you'd see dozens of mages sitting around yelling "Zojak Quareth" or whatever and fizzing. There was incredible balance built into that system of magic -- yes, it's enormously powerful, but you'd have to spend hours, days even, to gain that power. Just like how a mage should be. And those players who wanted to spend that time were few and far in between -- just like how a mage should be.
The skill-based character builds resulted in some fantastic, original builds. Remember the Grief BM? The 3-school archer? I remember seeing a BM in a PvP duel whip out a Hollow Sword and rip the other mage to shreds. I have never seen such freedom to experiment in ANY other game since AC.
Add in some of the good ideas/good things from other MMO's -- I'm personally in favor of the instanced Random Mission system in AO that you and a few friends can knock out in 20 minutes. Great for those times when you want to do something in a group but don't have hours to do anything major. I loved the freedom of Yalmahas (personal flying vehicles) in AO. The aggro-mechanism of AO was also superb and really allowed for true Tanks, true DPS, true Support. The active combat system of DDO is unparalleled in my experience so far.
And Darktide. What a great world. As long as the devs resisted doing ANY balancing for the sake of PvP, a world like Darktide was and will be an amazing sociological experiment.
I think in time, it'll rise again. The Fifth Generation MMO's are out of ideas. They're trying to spice up the gravy, but forgetting the meat underneath. Eventually, a great developer will arise and harness a great graphics engine (someone license Crysis Engine please) to a great, open-ended game engine and we'll have the game that will redefine the MMORPG genre.
And I suspect it'll be a LOT like Asheron's Call.
/gren
Oh man this post brings back fond memories, things we'll probably never get to experience again in a MMORPG.
I Agree, AC was the best game ever, period.
I played into the Throne of Destiny expansion and would still be playing today if there was any kind of population still there.
As other posters said, one of the best aspects of AC was the ability to completely customize your character, picking your own combination of skills, creating something unique.
AC also had the best player base I've ever seen in a game. People were always willing to help you retrieve your corpse, or form pick-up groups for quests/dungeons. Hell, you could have fun with AC people just hanging at the mansion and having jumping contests to see who could jump from one part of the mansion roof to another, etc.
And just being able to take off in any direction and explore and actually find something worth seeing, ah, how I miss that.
No other game even comes close.
Imo, there is no and has never been any mmog that comes close to AC1 in the matter of fun factor and even the loot system is the best ever.You do not have to join the same raid 68 times and hope that the boss will drop the item you need(and that item is never unic) but you can find something unic every time you fight a mob grouped or solo. Asherons Call is a unic game and I'm afraid we will never see anything like it ever again.
I too loved all the features already mentioned, but random lewt was another one of my favorites (a feature that you essentially never see in other MMORPGs). It was great fun rummaging through dozens of items after a long days hunt, and sometimes finding that true gem. And even hanging around the NPC shops waiting for the stuff the higher level players were dumping could be a rewarding past time in AC1.
But...SWG came very close to recreating the quality of the AC1 experience for me. However I took a sabbatical waiting for those screwball Sony devs to get their act together and quit nerfing my Creature Handler, only to be thinking about coming back right when the NGE hit. So I never did get a second chance. Though that may be changing soon. But at this site I'm not allowed to talk about why. So I won't.
In AC the ratio was perfect and people wouldnt mind so much dying in PvP so they happily engaged in it even though they knew they would probably lose. And if you was skillfull you could single handedly kill several less skilled people, even if they were the same level. It was truly the perfect PvP MMORPG.
My gaming blog
hehe, good question. Personally i've tried about every game on this site that has at least a 6 rating and up. And i always give a game its just do, and i play them for a good 40+ hours a piece in the very least to get a good feal for the game. EQ, EQ2, WoW, AO, Eve, SWG, COH/COV, DAoC, Auto Assault, sword of the new world, many korean games.
But there is absolutely no game to date that even compares. and sadly i've recently been going back to AC and trying to play. but it would seem that my system is way to far upgraded now and i end up with wierd graphical glitches. so i will play it for my one month paid period and then probably quit again for awhile.
But for 4 years that has been the greatest game i've ever played.
The closest so far was Silkroad as far as having a good blend of pvp/pve content. it also has a similar skill based system. Just nothing open ended really like Darktide.
I did play SWG during beta and after it first came out and it truly seemed like a good replacement for AC, but after the CU i seen it going downhill from there. To much time spent changing the game around and not enough putting in content that was well past due and sorely needed.
I mostly played on Morningthaw myself because of one friend that introduced me to the game. but i'm sure all the folks on darktide loved it when one of the other servers was down... because then it became the invasion of the "carebears" day. I never really cared for the looting etc, so PKL is more of my style i prefer.
CoV/COH is really fun for the character customization and lots of nice content. PVP aspects are also fun. still not nearly as exciting as the combat in AC tho.
The Chronicles of Spellborn maybe the next best thing to AC tho.
personally i'm looking at TCoS or Hero's Journey being that next big thing. no real telling tho...
maybe if turbine can get off their sorry butts and make a real AC2 for a change :P
I've yet to find a game that compares with AC, there have been many times I've considered going back, but never did because none of my old friends play it anymore. I did try to go back one (a little before AC2) but the game wasn't quite the same without my old guild mates and friends.
Games I've played,for at least two months.
TheRealm,UO,Everquest,EQ2,DOAC,AC,AC2,Aol,SWG,
WoW,Lotro.
For all around gameplay and content,SWG came sort of close,untill Sony gutted it.
I played Ac from closed beta and for 3-11/2 years after release
Only game to-date that had char's that you could really make the way YOU wanted.from skills to..well even run speed.Open seamless world.
A mage system the way it should be,if you wanted to be good,it was hard,but rewarding.
The same could be said for most classes.
But if you wanted an unarmed char with a couple schools of magic..you could have it.Or like Nightwolf,one that could run about 150mph
.
Why am I not playing it now.
Three biggest reasons..Friends left,plug-ins like Decal and the Allegence exp chains.The second two were why a lot of my friends left.
Too many good times to recount from AC,every game after has been sorely lacking.
Realistic list off MMO's ive played since my first time logging into AC,
EQ1/2 - DaoC - WoW - CoX - AO - LotRO - GW - FFXI - D&DO - EVE - MTXO - Ryzom and litterally 80% of mmorpg.com's free game list. Not one was better than AC1.
I will admit DaoC in its own right is top 2 best mmo ive ever played behind only AC. DaoC's RvR system is still rivaled only by AC's twitch based PvPing. No other game can touch the level of excitement that DaoC as a whole brought me. DaoC and EQ1 were really the only games ive put more then 2 years of work in on in some way or another. As a total I would say I actually played DaoC for about 4+ years. I did play WoW for 2+ but its like an empty feeling of playtime. Feels like i was a lvl 1 orc the whole time(although my 70 shaman would beg to differ).
I for one am acutally getting frustrated away from the computer at the lack of mmo quality these days. I find myself somewhere else saying "jesus are there any good games worth playing right now". I miss the days of AC that i can never have back.
First time i walked into The Hall of Metos. Those iron golems let me have it. Oh man how many trips to the lifestone. Then i found a BD IV acid broadsword and it was closing time for the golems. My first mote. Finding out what motes did. Making my sword. Inserting acid stone and getting more golem revenge. Questing for a focusing stone. Getting my Amuli pants stolen in old Arwic. Getting one shotted by the first panumbris i ever saw. Getting on shotted by the first big Tusker i ever saw. If im not mistaken the first Shad LT i saw 2 shotted me. The first time i ever made the "run" to Ayan.
Since AC was first i am bias when comparing it to other games. Its not a fair comparison as no game will ever have those "first time" feelings. Now we are all pros and play like pros. We play without awe for we dont have anything new to gawk at. There wont be that feeling anymore and that i have accepted. Im just dissapointed with the effort devs put forth nowadays in making these games that are truly loved.
All i ask for AC is that they do a full graphic overhaul like AO is doing now. If they stopped with the AC2, DDO and LotR blah blah blah and just get back to what works. If they revamped the graphics I would resub in an instant, and I know im not alone in that.
Oh and i was actually in the middle of trial dling AC1. I played Hardcore for about 5 years and have trialed or resubbed in some way ever since.
Why cannot we just say AC1 was a good game. Other games are also good games. Why does one have to be 'better' to be good?
For me, I passed AC1 by due to the 'Perfect-Build' syndrom that had got into the design.
I have really enjoyed (at different times and for different reasons) :
EQ1
DAoC
AO
WoW
LoTRO (Current)
I have tried, and somewhat enjoyed, but left sooner rather than later :
EQ2
CoH/CoV
EVE
Planetside
GW
I have tried, and did not like at all :
SoR
V:SoH
MXO
DDO
TR
E&B
AC1 & AC2
That is not to say that those titles are 'good' or 'bad' or 'better' or 'worse'.
It is just my likes and dislikes.
Your milage may vary.
Enjoy what you play and forget the rest.
Really that good? May be I will have a try....
I used to play WOW and recently are looking for a new game. Maybe AC cannot be called new, but to me, it is!
I can not find solus in any other game the grind the lake of adventure lack of communtiy all drive me away soon I hope to find a good home for my mind at the end of a days work. Soon I hope they open thier eyes for older generation has no intrest in poor design.
Actually, for those that have posted above saying that they might try AC... don't do it now
It is dead.
It was absolutely the greatest game to have been made, but it was outdated graphically and such by about 2001. I played in post launch 99 up through about a year or so later. I came back when Winter's Ebb opened hoping that the XP chains and garbage would be left behind on the older servers. For the most part it was and WE was a fabulous place to play for another year. (I was in the Astral Dragons, a really fun group and I miss that type of play these days)
Turbine made a great game... and then did NOTHING with it. The idiots at that company didn't and still don't know what they had. AC was different and better than the only other real MMORPG game out at the time - EQ. However, EQ had marketing and advertizing and Turbine stunk at the concept of actually taking a product to market and pleasing its customer. Guess what? Though turbine fell in to making a great game, we are paying the price for Tubrine being a crappy company in every other way to this very day.
The people that were introduced to MMORPGs through EQ have a much different taste than AC players. WoW and all the rest of the games are based on the restrcitive slot-car playstyle of EQ. Everyone talks about WoW, but WoW isn't anything new, it is just a dumb EQ clone.
We may never truely recover from the path that the MMOs are now on. Turbine had the chance, but blew it. The mistakes of Turbine not killing the cheater-add-on programs, killing the macroing and killing the XP chains and the fact that they didn't even market the game to the world is exactly why we have the crap-tastic computer games today.
Had AC been the standard instead of EQ, MMOs today would be lightyears ahead of where they are now. And worse... it is likely too late because they are now so far down the EverCrap/World of Worthless path, that gamers are not going to come back to sandbox games.
Freedom in MMOs died with AC. It likely will never be seen again.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
AC was a brilliant game far, far ahead of its time. It was simply too ahead for people to really notice, and had a lack of hype and advertising to go along wit it. Not to mention MMO's were still pretty fledgling before the WoW hype. Its a shame we probably wont see a game close to the genius of AC in a long time. Sandbox is sort of a dream word in the MMO industry, and sadly the innovation would have been catapulted miles and miles if AC became standard. Give the industry 20-40 years and we may see a change in skills, character customization etc similar to the brilliance of AC, but I wouldnt count on anything coming close to the freedom that players had in AC anytime until publishers smarten up - and we all know publishers are stubborn bastards that will only mold and change with time. I'd give it at least 2030 until we see anything close to AC's caliber. WoW has set a huge trend and nothing except Darkfall shows any hints of true sandbox freedom play. Very pessimistic, but sadly, probably very true.
Exactly what I want to say. Wow keepks me the longest interest.
I used to play WOW for about 2 years. Really in support of it. And AC is my second choice:) Sorry to say so.