The nodes showing on minimap were in Asheron's Call 2 already. And I'm glad they are not in Vanguard. It's part of the fun to look around for it. In addition the nodes in VG are spread intelligently and logically. If you go out into a plain you will find cotton plants, if you go into forest you will find trees to cut, if you go below ground you will find iron...
There a so many reasons Vanguard failed but here are a few off the top of my head:
The game was broken at release. Performance was terrible. Quest chains were broken. Hitching due to chunking and general poor engine development. All these are still true by the way. The game was only about 25% complete at release. It is now about 50% done.
XP is tedious and way too slow. The double XP weekends were about right. VG has so few people playing it that everyone should be about the same level in order for grouping. Otherwise the game is simply too dull and boring for solo play.
The Vanguard fanbase are made up of old school Players who can not adapt to changes in the marketplace. They are very hostile also and really hate WoW and other games and those that play other games.
The game has a gap at around level 20 or so where there is no good solo content or way to advance. It picks up with some mindless quests in Southwatch around level 30 but that gap is major. My guess is this is where most people quit the game.
The game has no central meeting place. All the races are spread out. When I started with some of my old EQ buddies we started in totally different areas and could not easily get to each other. This was the start of our negative impression on the game.
The world is too big. Yes, MMORPGs are great when the world is big and you can explore but VG is simply big for no good reason. There is no design. It is just big. You always feel like you are playing alone.
Tedious crafting. I guess people just watch tv while they craft. Not sure but it is certainly not compelling gameplay.
The game was hyped to be the "anti-WoW". WoW has 9 million sub for a reason. They are doing something right. That is like General Motors saying "We are the anti-Toyota". Failure will soon follow.
The game was released at the same time as The Burning Crusade. Who releases a game at the same time as anything from Blizzard? Blizzard is king. Keep that in mind no matter who you are.
The bottom line is that VG is simply not any fun. It is work. Although there are some people who want to replace real life with the game and like to not have fun. The majority of people play video games to have fun. Vanguard is not fun, hence it is a failure.
There a so many reasons Vanguard failed but here are a few off the top of my head:
XP is tedious and way too slow. The double XP weekends were about right. VG has so few people playing it that everyone should be about the same level in order for grouping. Otherwise the game is simply too dull and boring for solo play.
The Vanguard fanbase are made up of old school Players who can not adapt to changes in the marketplace. They are very hostile also and really hate WoW and other games and those that play other games.
The game has a gap at around level 20 or so where there is no good solo content or way to advance. It picks up with some mindless quests in Southwatch around level 30 but that gap is major. My guess is this is where most people quit the game.
The game has no central meeting place. All the races are spread out. When I started with some of my old EQ buddies we started in totally different areas and could not easily get to each other. This was the start of our negative impression on the game.
The world is too big. Yes, MMORPGs are great when the world is big and you can explore but VG is simply big for no good reason. There is no design. It is just big. You always feel like you are playing alone.
Tedious crafting. I guess people just watch tv while they craft. Not sure but it is certainly not compelling gameplay.
The game was hyped to be the "anti-WoW". WoW has 9 million sub for a reason. They are doing something right. That is like General Motors saying "We are the anti-Toyota". Failure will soon follow.
The game was released at the same time as The Burning Crusade. Who releases a game at the same time as anything from Blizzard? Blizzard is king. Keep that in mind no matter who you are.
Thanks for saying what is the utlimate fun and what is not.
Not enough content between 20-35? The game has not most content for those levels. There are more than ten different areas for levels between 25-35, that each can give you 2-3 levels. Yet not talking about dungeons where you can practically level up from 1-50 if you enjoy grouping.
Tedious crafting, I realize you enjoy more set up "do 15" then watch casting bar and wait. This one in VG actually demands more attention from player and more input. There are people playing VG mostly for the crafting.
The world is too big lacking detail? That is simply not true. The world is filled up with questing hubs, towns, camps, dungeons, beatiful sceneries ... Yes you must explore a little more, but explorating is part of the fun for me.
Yes we can't adopt to changes that were set by Asheron's Call 2 and brought into general public by WoW. Just like people that enjoy music from 70s, there are people that enjoy the old features of MMORPGames. What's wrong about that?
I played vanguard beta and left just after playing 10 minutes, 6 months later (June) i bought the game and started playing, it was better but yet broken, left the game. I returned to the game starting December and i must say im very glad with the result now. The last 3 patches have increased a lot performance and have fixed many many errors, balanced classes in a small degree and they improved crafting and diplomacy.
The game failed cause it was designed to be the WoW-killer, the game should have been designed to be great in terms of playing not focusing it to be another game killer.
The community of Vanguard has learnt a lot on how to respect other players, myself when arrived in december came from WoW expansion, and the community asked me how the game was and they were interested in what things should be improved. WoW is not the F word in chat anymore, of course there are some jerks that always will press the FLAME ON button when they hear it but just ignore them, they are minority.
The last 3 patches have been CRUCIAL in fixing the game greatly in performance and they are replacing the old textures that ate ur computer by new and fixed ones. Im not saying the game is perfect, the game is very far from perfect or being what the game promised to be, but slowly is getting better. Next patch flying mounts? Well i would like but we will see.
I truly think that when SOE releases a trial, many ppl will get hooked. The game simply failed cause it was poorly designed, was bad, broken and community was completely rude, nowadays the game has improved and i really think this game is starting to get some interesting things.
I am a solo player, not hardcore cause i work and have a life, i have a rogue (bad class to solo) but i enjoy it a lot and im doing perfect lonely, i am lvl 27 and yesterday was the first time i teamed, i also am crafter lvl 25 and yea crafting can be repetitive but if you plan the skills and do crafting missions u get many rewards, and armors look awesome. Havent touched diplomacy cause i dont like the card game, its just boring to me, but many ppl likes it and you can get stat,exp,status bonuses with it.
The game is complex, it has many things that are hard to get, but they have some nice ideas, i love the fighting system with the chain attacks, reactions,defensive,sympathetic and opportunity attacks.
Im not bashing WoW, is the top 1 and it has something special to be there thats out of discussion, i have done many good friends in there, but reading this thread i have found many statements that are not true about Vanguard and ppl who is talking about how the game was 6 months ago, the game has improved a lot since October-November that was the time when the heavy performance-content fixing started.
I played vanguard beta and left just after playing 10 minutes, 6 months later (June) i bought the game and started playing, it was better but yet broken, left the game. I returned to the game starting December and i must say im very glad with the result now. The last 3 patches have increased a lot performance and have fixed many many errors, balanced classes in a small degree and they improved crafting and diplomacy.
The game failed cause it was designed to be the WoW-killer, the game should have been designed to be great in terms of playing not focusing it to be another game killer. The community of Vanguard has learnt a lot on how to respect other players, myself when arrived in december came from WoW expansion, and the community asked me how the game was and they were interested in what things should be improved. WoW is not the F word in chat anymore, of course there are some jerks that always will press the FLAME ON button when they hear it but just ignore them, they are minority.
The last 3 patches have been CRUCIAL in fixing the game greatly in performance and they are replacing the old textures that ate ur computer by new and fixed ones. Im not saying the game is perfect, the game is very far from perfect or being what the game promised to be, but slowly is getting better. Next patch flying mounts? Well i would like but we will see.
I truly think that when SOE releases a trial, many ppl will get hooked. The game simply failed cause it was poorly designed, was bad, broken and community was completely rude, nowadays the game has improved and i really think this game is starting to get some interesting things.
I am a solo player, not hardcore cause i work and have a life, i have a rogue (bad class to solo) but i enjoy it a lot and im doing perfect lonely, i am lvl 27 and yesterday was the first time i teamed, i also am crafter lvl 25 and yea crafting can be repetitive but if you plan the skills and do crafting missions u get many rewards, and armors look awesome. Havent touched diplomacy cause i dont like the card game, its just boring to me, but many ppl likes it and you can get stat,exp,status bonuses with it.
The game is complex, it has many things that are hard to get, but they have some nice ideas, i love the fighting system with the chain attacks, reactions,defensive,sympathetic and opportunity attacks.
Im not bashing WoW, is the top 1 and it has something special to be there thats out of discussion, i have done many good friends in there, but reading this thread i have found many statements that are not true about Vanguard and ppl who is talking about how the game was 6 months ago, the game has improved a lot since October-November that was the time when the heavy performance-content fixing started.
QFT. My wife and I just cancelled our WoW accounts after resubbing to VG.
Its *now* a great game in spite of it's obvious flaws. There are problems, yes, but now there are just few enough to earn my time and money.
p.s. The Pegasus mount rocks! I can't wait for it to be permanent.
For purposes of discussion, let's define "success" in financial terms. To be a success a game must be profitable, and that means the game must maintain at least a moderately large player base. I realize that fans of the game may have other measures to define success, but please keep comments limited to financial success and failure. Vanguard has only a fraction of the players it had on release. I believe the current subscription numbers are very low. Therefore, Vanguard is a financial failure. Why did Vanguard fail? There are bound to be multiple reasons, but is there one reason that really sticks out? Here's my opinion: In the days leading up to release, Vanguard marketed itself as friendly to the "core" gamer. The core gamer is a gamer that would like to be a hardcore gamer, but simply doesn't have time to play 24/7. The core gamer takes the long view, and ends up getting to level 50 by playing a few hours per week over the course of a year. The problem is that many of the core gamers courted by Vanguard didn't have a good enough computer system to run the game. It shouldn't be a surprise, then, that the population Vanguard was counting on to act as a backbone to the game wasn't interested in giving Vanguard a shot.
It is true that this game has had a rough start but it is now starting to work fine as the first year comes to an end. Yes they have to make back 30 million dolloars but I feel it is do-able in the long run.
It is a game that gave a wakeup call to all devs and has already made many changes and delays in the overall online gaming industry
A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.
I will wait after the second relaunch they plan this year before I state anything about Vanguard being really a financial failure, or not.
But the reasons why the initial release failed are obvious. Too early release, too little QA, much creativity but not enough order in the original development.
Also, the fight against goldsellers and hackers has been lost. Duplication bugs, ewww.
Perfect example of a Vanguard fanatic. Flying mounts are RENTABLE, I KNOW THIS. You can't buy one, THUS NOT IN THE GAME. Oh really, so there is a mini-map that will allow one to see where harvesting nodes are and the like?
And yeah, I didn't like the community because I must be an idiot. Constant WoW babble has nothing to do with it. Keep on trucking in your unfinished game.
Correct me if I'm wrong but not even wow shows the nodes on the mini map do they without using an addon? And if you really want it there is a very nice map addon for VG that does indeed show the resource nodes, many npcs and various other mappable objects.
You also seem to be really cutting hairs on the flying mounts issue. First you say that that flying mounts aren't in the game but then you say you know there are rentable ones in the game but they don't count... Now they are either in the game or not and if you can't buy one perminently but can rent one that does kinda imply that they ARE in the game. You just want one perminently, which I think many people do but just because you can't buy it doesn't mean that functionality is missing. I think that in another update or two we will see a quest for a perminent flying mount and thus your point is really lost.
Yes WOW mini map showed harvestables , dont know why it was so easy to remember where things spawned in that game, so simplistic i could almost harvest with my eyes closed
Sigil attempted too much, this was the biggest problem because it pushed a philosophy of quantity over quality. Eventually, they had to release because they were out of money. The game they released was full of bugs, performance issues and above all else, the game was not approachable for the mass amount of players (only the few hardcore people liked the punishing nature of the game). Several parts were tedious and just not fun. The community was also pretty bad at launch, they were horrible to anyone who voiced a concern in any aspect of the game. Those who were ready to follow that sinking ship to hell. It also didn't help that they released next to WoW's expansion.
But... I think they are in a different position now. When I left, the game was a flaming wreckage and now they are picking up the pieces and I am actually having quite a bit of fun. My only concern is getting to attached to such a financially unsuccessful game, to have it pulled out from under me (I also keep hearing the game sucks after lvl 30). I hope with their trial set to launch in '08, they also launch an ad campaign and almost relaunch the game in its entirety.
This post is 100% spot on. They wanted to build "the biggest" and "the best" new game. They should have instead been practical and just made a great game. The cliche, size doesn't matter is true here. As long as the landscape is compelling; it doesn't have to be massive.
I disagree with most opinions on here; so I guess we each have our reasons for unsubscribing to VG. For me, the ONLY reason I unsubscribed was because the game mechanics (that everyone has asked for years) are in retrospect not what we players really wanted. We don't want an easy xp joy-ride, keeping us so busy that we don't have time to chat with new friends.
We wanted interactive combat and no down time; but the byproduct of this is you don't have any time at all to type "hello!" We wanted better quest xp; but as a result quests became mandatory, and no one wanted to group with you unless you could help them finish their quest.
We wanted crafting as a valid profession; not limited to those rich from adventuring. Now I'm not so sure.
We wanted an easy way to buy and sell our gear; but using the town broker quickly got boring; human interaction is far more interesting.
And so on...
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Actually, the size of the landscape is what initially attracted me to this game.
Compared to what I hoped for, I can assure you, the game is VERY SMALL.
But still, its the biggest you can get at the moment - and the game is wonderful in many other respects. All I really miss is more challenge (the game is simply too easy) and a civilized form of PvP that is not about the other guys purse (I'm darkelf, not a petty bandit, thank you very much).
The fact that it was rushed out the door full, 6 months early at least, of bugs and un-optimized game engine. Coupled with the fact that you had to have a monster machine to even run the game. Those facts alone killed it for a lot of people.
Comments
If you have the gathering skill in wow, you can track the resource on your minimap. Only one type of tracking can be active at a time.
The nodes showing on minimap were in Asheron's Call 2 already. And I'm glad they are not in Vanguard. It's part of the fun to look around for it. In addition the nodes in VG are spread intelligently and logically. If you go out into a plain you will find cotton plants, if you go into forest you will find trees to cut, if you go below ground you will find iron...
REALITY CHECK
Pretty damn accurate...
Not enough content between 20-35? The game has not most content for those levels. There are more than ten different areas for levels between 25-35, that each can give you 2-3 levels. Yet not talking about dungeons where you can practically level up from 1-50 if you enjoy grouping.
Tedious crafting, I realize you enjoy more set up "do 15" then watch casting bar and wait. This one in VG actually demands more attention from player and more input. There are people playing VG mostly for the crafting.
The world is too big lacking detail? That is simply not true. The world is filled up with questing hubs, towns, camps, dungeons, beatiful sceneries ... Yes you must explore a little more, but explorating is part of the fun for me.
Yes we can't adopt to changes that were set by Asheron's Call 2 and brought into general public by WoW. Just like people that enjoy music from 70s, there are people that enjoy the old features of MMORPGames. What's wrong about that?
REALITY CHECK
I played vanguard beta and left just after playing 10 minutes, 6 months later (June) i bought the game and started playing, it was better but yet broken, left the game. I returned to the game starting December and i must say im very glad with the result now. The last 3 patches have increased a lot performance and have fixed many many errors, balanced classes in a small degree and they improved crafting and diplomacy.
The game failed cause it was designed to be the WoW-killer, the game should have been designed to be great in terms of playing not focusing it to be another game killer.
The community of Vanguard has learnt a lot on how to respect other players, myself when arrived in december came from WoW expansion, and the community asked me how the game was and they were interested in what things should be improved. WoW is not the F word in chat anymore, of course there are some jerks that always will press the FLAME ON button when they hear it but just ignore them, they are minority.
The last 3 patches have been CRUCIAL in fixing the game greatly in performance and they are replacing the old textures that ate ur computer by new and fixed ones. Im not saying the game is perfect, the game is very far from perfect or being what the game promised to be, but slowly is getting better. Next patch flying mounts? Well i would like but we will see.
I truly think that when SOE releases a trial, many ppl will get hooked. The game simply failed cause it was poorly designed, was bad, broken and community was completely rude, nowadays the game has improved and i really think this game is starting to get some interesting things.
I am a solo player, not hardcore cause i work and have a life, i have a rogue (bad class to solo) but i enjoy it a lot and im doing perfect lonely, i am lvl 27 and yesterday was the first time i teamed, i also am crafter lvl 25 and yea crafting can be repetitive but if you plan the skills and do crafting missions u get many rewards, and armors look awesome. Havent touched diplomacy cause i dont like the card game, its just boring to me, but many ppl likes it and you can get stat,exp,status bonuses with it.
The game is complex, it has many things that are hard to get, but they have some nice ideas, i love the fighting system with the chain attacks, reactions,defensive,sympathetic and opportunity attacks.
Im not bashing WoW, is the top 1 and it has something special to be there thats out of discussion, i have done many good friends in there, but reading this thread i have found many statements that are not true about Vanguard and ppl who is talking about how the game was 6 months ago, the game has improved a lot since October-November that was the time when the heavy performance-content fixing started.
Its *now* a great game in spite of it's obvious flaws. There are problems, yes, but now there are just few enough to earn my time and money.
p.s. The Pegasus mount rocks! I can't wait for it to be permanent.
Life of an MMORPG "addict"
For 7 years, proving that if you quote "fuck" you won't get banned.
It is a game that gave a wakeup call to all devs and has already made many changes and delays in the overall online gaming industry
A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.
I will wait after the second relaunch they plan this year before I state anything about Vanguard being really a financial failure, or not.
But the reasons why the initial release failed are obvious. Too early release, too little QA, much creativity but not enough order in the original development.
Also, the fight against goldsellers and hackers has been lost. Duplication bugs, ewww.
Correct me if I'm wrong but not even wow shows the nodes on the mini map do they without using an addon? And if you really want it there is a very nice map addon for VG that does indeed show the resource nodes, many npcs and various other mappable objects.
You also seem to be really cutting hairs on the flying mounts issue. First you say that that flying mounts aren't in the game but then you say you know there are rentable ones in the game but they don't count... Now they are either in the game or not and if you can't buy one perminently but can rent one that does kinda imply that they ARE in the game. You just want one perminently, which I think many people do but just because you can't buy it doesn't mean that functionality is missing. I think that in another update or two we will see a quest for a perminent flying mount and thus your point is really lost.
Yes WOW mini map showed harvestables , dont know why it was so easy to remember where things spawned in that game, so simplistic i could almost harvest with my eyes closed
This post is 100% spot on. They wanted to build "the biggest" and "the best" new game. They should have instead been practical and just made a great game. The cliche, size doesn't matter is true here. As long as the landscape is compelling; it doesn't have to be massive.
I disagree with most opinions on here; so I guess we each have our reasons for unsubscribing to VG. For me, the ONLY reason I unsubscribed was because the game mechanics (that everyone has asked for years) are in retrospect not what we players really wanted. We don't want an easy xp joy-ride, keeping us so busy that we don't have time to chat with new friends.
We wanted interactive combat and no down time; but the byproduct of this is you don't have any time at all to type "hello!" We wanted better quest xp; but as a result quests became mandatory, and no one wanted to group with you unless you could help them finish their quest.
We wanted crafting as a valid profession; not limited to those rich from adventuring. Now I'm not so sure.
We wanted an easy way to buy and sell our gear; but using the town broker quickly got boring; human interaction is far more interesting.
And so on...
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Actually, the size of the landscape is what initially attracted me to this game.
Compared to what I hoped for, I can assure you, the game is VERY SMALL.
But still, its the biggest you can get at the moment - and the game is wonderful in many other respects. All I really miss is more challenge (the game is simply too easy) and a civilized form of PvP that is not about the other guys purse (I'm darkelf, not a petty bandit, thank you very much).
The fact that it was rushed out the door full, 6 months early at least, of bugs and un-optimized game engine. Coupled with the fact that you had to have a monster machine to even run the game. Those facts alone killed it for a lot of people.