The grind, it has to be SIGNIFICANT, it has to be enjoyable, it has to ask you to do what you like to do (grouping).
At first I agreed with you until I realized that you didn't really write "no grouping".
Grouping is the part I hate most about MMOs. If I have 90 minutes of playtime I don't want to spend more than half of it looking for partners until I can start actually playing. I spend a lot of my limited playtime merrily soloing and only group when it's necessary or I have larger chunks of time to devote to the game.
It always amazes me that so many people think their way of playing is THE way.
If you look at his posting history you can see that grouping is what HE enjoys the most and all he is asking for is that grouping is there for people who like to group, not to be the only form of advancement.
Basicly he is asking for a game to cater to at least 3 groups, soloers, groupers and raiders, each with it's own playstyle and award system, as balanced as possible. That would be great, but only if someone could actualy understand why certain people prefer certain playstyle and provide THAT for them.
Interesting, I find one of the things I really hate about most of these MMO's is there implementation of stealth. Not one has ever implemented it correctly, only a few have made it viable by not making it overpowering. Stealth is supposed to be hiding in shadows, not running around invisible in a field in full daylight. Kudos to Mythic if they don't have stealth in WAR.
I think your prognosess that a major title will fail and an unknown will achieve some successes is a golden one. Past experience says that is almost a given.
I do think you will see some major fallout in the free to play marketplace. It is being inundated with a lot of contentless junk and eventually people are just going to realize that fact and avoid it. There are a few good titles in that mess, hopefully people can wade through long enough to find them.
I am still waiting for Sony to wake up to the fact that SOE is underperforming immensely and finally dump Smedley. The worst CEO in the business by a wide margin, he has a penchant for picking out losers and making lots of dumb decisions. It is beyond belief that Sony can ignore this up till now.
You guys are trying to express what a MMORPG should be to be healthy and attract players. The game has already been made. FFXI has everything you could want and more.......except........there is a massive horde of RMT that have ruined the game. If Square Enix took care of the RMT problem once and for all and opened new servers I would resub in a heartbeat and not look back for at least 4 years. It was that good pre expansion. Immense variety in character classes and skills, Exciting gameplay. And pretty good PVP. (Nothing screams "Kill it now" like a rampaging Galka monk) Progression was very slow but there was so much you needed to do it really didn't matter. It has an awsome macro interface that allows you to set up easy combos that makes the grinding much easier. And you don't solo grind, you grind with 5 ppl. The game progression is slow enough to discourage griefing or idiotic behavior...because one who is known as an idiot is known by all and will soon find themselves frustrated and having to reroll again. And lastly.....you HAVE to group up in order to accomplish anything, which is what a MMO is all about, Making friends and relying on others.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying this type of game, but it certainly does not apply to everyone's style. Now, that doesn't mean that any one style is "correct", just that different people get enjoyment from games in different ways. Specifically;
PvP: I never, ever participate in PvP in any MMO. I dislike losing, and get no pleasure from winning.
Progression: I hate slow progression. I can live with it for the last 10 levels, maybe, but that's it.
Grind: You need 5 ppl to grind? That there gives me reason to never play the game.
Forced grouping: Totally sucks for me in any game. Group when you want, not cause you have to.
Challenge: So often I see people saying they want challenge from their game. I only want a little challenge in my games. I'm an immersion player. Dying simply gets in the way of letting me experience the story. For example, I love HL games, but I always play them on the easiest setting to minimize story interruption.
So, from your description, FFXI has NOTHING in a game that I want. Not saying it's a bad game, but it's definitely not for all gamers.
You guys are trying to express what a MMORPG should be to be healthy and attract players. The game has already been made. FFXI has everything you could want and more.......except........there is a massive horde of RMT that have ruined the game. If Square Enix took care of the RMT problem once and for all and opened new servers I would resub in a heartbeat and not look back for at least 4 years. It was that good pre expansion. Immense variety in character classes and skills, Exciting gameplay. And pretty good PVP. (Nothing screams "Kill it now" like a rampaging Galka monk) Progression was very slow but there was so much you needed to do it really didn't matter. It has an awsome macro interface that allows you to set up easy combos that makes the grinding much easier. And you don't solo grind, you grind with 5 ppl. The game progression is slow enough to discourage griefing or idiotic behavior...because one who is known as an idiot is known by all and will soon find themselves frustrated and having to reroll again. And lastly.....you HAVE to group up in order to accomplish anything, which is what a MMO is all about, Making friends and relying on others.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying this type of game, but it certainly does not apply to everyone's style. Now, that doesn't mean that any one style is "correct", just that different people get enjoyment from games in different ways. Specifically;
PvP: I never, ever participate in PvP in any MMO. I dislike losing, and get no pleasure from winning.
Progression: I hate slow progression. I can live with it for the last 10 levels, maybe, but that's it.
Grind: You need 5 ppl to grind? That there gives me reason to never play the game.
Forced grouping: Totally sucks for me in any game. Group when you want, not cause you have to.
Challenge: So often I see people saying they want challenge from their game. I only want a little challenge in my games. I'm an immersion player. Dying simply gets in the way of letting me experience the story. For example, I love HL games, but I always play them on the easiest setting to minimize story interruption.
So, from your description, FFXI has NOTHING in a game that I want. Not saying it's a bad game, but it's definitely not for all gamers.
No pun intended, but are you sure you like mmorpgs?
you don't like competition, you dont like playing with others in group for pve, then, basicaly, you just want to play alone and know nothing about what the others do?
You could play "inmersion" on any console game. Most of the mmorpg players do like grouping and pvp, its just that devs leave way too much freedom for suggestions to make games available for a wider market. People who don't like mmorpgs, but want them to be like this or like that making some small switches on the game play are destroying the essence in my humble opinion.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying this type of game, but it certainly does not apply to everyone's style. Now, that doesn't mean that any one style is "correct", just that different people get enjoyment from games in different ways. Specifically; PvP: I never, ever participate in PvP in any MMO. I dislike losing, and get no pleasure from winning. Progression: I hate slow progression. I can live with it for the last 10 levels, maybe, but that's it. Grind: You need 5 ppl to grind? That there gives me reason to never play the game. Forced grouping: Totally sucks for me in any game. Group when you want, not cause you have to. Challenge: So often I see people saying they want challenge from their game. I only want a little challenge in my games. I'm an immersion player. Dying simply gets in the way of letting me experience the story. For example, I love HL games, but I always play them on the easiest setting to minimize story interruption. So, from your description, FFXI has NOTHING in a game that I want. Not saying it's a bad game, but it's definitely not for all gamers.
No pun intended, but are you sure you like mmorpgs?
you don't like competition, you dont like playing with others in group for pve, then, basicaly, you just want to play alone and know nothing about what the others do?
You could play "inmersion" on any console game. Most of the mmorpg players do like grouping and pvp, its just that devs leave way too much freedom for suggestions to make games available for a wider market. People who don't like mmorpgs, but want them to be like this or like that making some small switches on the game play are destroying the essence in my humble opinion.
Let's blame wow for that.
I solo more than anything in all mmorpgs, but even I have to agree with Ephimero. Mmorpgs are apparently not for you, SwampRob.
And lastly.....you HAVE to group up in order to accomplish anything, which is what a MMO is all about, Making friends and relying on others.
I disagree. MMOs are about persistant online worlds and social interactions with others. You don't have to be in a group to interact with others. Forced grouping sucks as much as no grouping. Playstyle options and freedom of choice FTW!
Comments
So many people have mentioned "wait until polished" before~~~
I agree too~~
I will wait and see~~
Let's look forward to a good and fruitful 2008~
Grouping is the part I hate most about MMOs. If I have 90 minutes of playtime I don't want to spend more than half of it looking for partners until I can start actually playing. I spend a lot of my limited playtime merrily soloing and only group when it's necessary or I have larger chunks of time to devote to the game.
It always amazes me that so many people think their way of playing is THE way.
If you look at his posting history you can see that grouping is what HE enjoys the most and all he is asking for is that grouping is there for people who like to group, not to be the only form of advancement.
Basicly he is asking for a game to cater to at least 3 groups, soloers, groupers and raiders, each with it's own playstyle and award system, as balanced as possible. That would be great, but only if someone could actualy understand why certain people prefer certain playstyle and provide THAT for them.
Interesting, I find one of the things I really hate about most of these MMO's is there implementation of stealth. Not one has ever implemented it correctly, only a few have made it viable by not making it overpowering. Stealth is supposed to be hiding in shadows, not running around invisible in a field in full daylight. Kudos to Mythic if they don't have stealth in WAR.
I think your prognosess that a major title will fail and an unknown will achieve some successes is a golden one. Past experience says that is almost a given.
I do think you will see some major fallout in the free to play marketplace. It is being inundated with a lot of contentless junk and eventually people are just going to realize that fact and avoid it. There are a few good titles in that mess, hopefully people can wade through long enough to find them.
I am still waiting for Sony to wake up to the fact that SOE is underperforming immensely and finally dump Smedley. The worst CEO in the business by a wide margin, he has a penchant for picking out losers and making lots of dumb decisions. It is beyond belief that Sony can ignore this up till now.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying this type of game, but it certainly does not apply to everyone's style. Now, that doesn't mean that any one style is "correct", just that different people get enjoyment from games in different ways. Specifically;
PvP: I never, ever participate in PvP in any MMO. I dislike losing, and get no pleasure from winning.
Progression: I hate slow progression. I can live with it for the last 10 levels, maybe, but that's it.
Grind: You need 5 ppl to grind? That there gives me reason to never play the game.
Forced grouping: Totally sucks for me in any game. Group when you want, not cause you have to.
Challenge: So often I see people saying they want challenge from their game. I only want a little challenge in my games. I'm an immersion player. Dying simply gets in the way of letting me experience the story. For example, I love HL games, but I always play them on the easiest setting to minimize story interruption.
So, from your description, FFXI has NOTHING in a game that I want. Not saying it's a bad game, but it's definitely not for all gamers.
There's nothing wrong with enjoying this type of game, but it certainly does not apply to everyone's style. Now, that doesn't mean that any one style is "correct", just that different people get enjoyment from games in different ways. Specifically;
PvP: I never, ever participate in PvP in any MMO. I dislike losing, and get no pleasure from winning.
Progression: I hate slow progression. I can live with it for the last 10 levels, maybe, but that's it.
Grind: You need 5 ppl to grind? That there gives me reason to never play the game.
Forced grouping: Totally sucks for me in any game. Group when you want, not cause you have to.
Challenge: So often I see people saying they want challenge from their game. I only want a little challenge in my games. I'm an immersion player. Dying simply gets in the way of letting me experience the story. For example, I love HL games, but I always play them on the easiest setting to minimize story interruption.
So, from your description, FFXI has NOTHING in a game that I want. Not saying it's a bad game, but it's definitely not for all gamers.
No pun intended, but are you sure you like mmorpgs?
you don't like competition, you dont like playing with others in group for pve, then, basicaly, you just want to play alone and know nothing about what the others do?
You could play "inmersion" on any console game. Most of the mmorpg players do like grouping and pvp, its just that devs leave way too much freedom for suggestions to make games available for a wider market. People who don't like mmorpgs, but want them to be like this or like that making some small switches on the game play are destroying the essence in my humble opinion.
Let's blame wow for that.
No pun intended, but are you sure you like mmorpgs?
you don't like competition, you dont like playing with others in group for pve, then, basicaly, you just want to play alone and know nothing about what the others do?
You could play "inmersion" on any console game. Most of the mmorpg players do like grouping and pvp, its just that devs leave way too much freedom for suggestions to make games available for a wider market. People who don't like mmorpgs, but want them to be like this or like that making some small switches on the game play are destroying the essence in my humble opinion.
Let's blame wow for that.
I solo more than anything in all mmorpgs, but even I have to agree with Ephimero. Mmorpgs are apparently not for you, SwampRob.
2008 - my predictions
AOC and WAR - Theirs to lose. If they release polished, fun games, no one else touches them.
AION, Chronicles of Spellborn - Darkhorses that could pull an upset if they are truely something different (or the first two stumble)
Stargate Worlds - Seriously, does anyone really see this game being released sooner than mid-2009, regardless the ravings of the development team.
Pirates of the whatever (too many of those damn games) - Has a great early opportunity, and would really benefit if AOC delayed another 3 months.
Wrath of the Lich King - Will bring millions of WOW players rushing back when its released.
Darkfall - yeah right (just thrown in for comedic effect)
Who the hell are you, and why should I care?
Congrats! You are a victim of Trollstar!
I disagree. MMOs are about persistant online worlds and social interactions with others. You don't have to be in a group to interact with others. Forced grouping sucks as much as no grouping. Playstyle options and freedom of choice FTW!