How much economics have you studied? If you've taken even an introductory level macroeconomics course you'd realize, the MMO industry is indeed following a specifically american approach. There's an excellent essay by a former harvard economist named John Kenneth Galbraith called "The Affluent Society". The premise is, our economy is operating under 19th century european theories of production over everything. This is fine when you have an impoverished population who are more concerned the basic necessities of life, such as food, clothing, and shelter. Since those commodities are in demand and essential for life, little was invested in innovative approaches. The devices that ushered in the industrial revolution (the cotton gin and the steam engine for 2 specific instances) were not developed by or with the support of the industries that benefited most from them, they we're developed by normal workers with flashes of brilliance who wanted to ease their workload. In a society that's struggling to clothe, feed, adn house it's population, this is fine.. but we're beyond that stage and our economic strategies have failed to develop beyond that. Production remains king while innovation falls by the way side. The WoW model has shown success and that's why you will see WoW clone after WoW clone. Innovation is not rewarded the way production is, so developers take the path of least resistance and copy successful business models, with merely derivative products. Take the american auto industry. Our cars continue to get awful gas mileage, the body model may change, but there hasn't been anything truly innovative in years. Each year, our auto industry falls further and further behind foriegn auto makes for this very reason. They are locked into a production mindset and refuse to embrace innovation. It's industry that refuses to innovate once they find a successful business model, not consumers.
Spoken like someone whose read a few articles, maybe even take a class or two from some liberal professor.
You are right, to some extent, but that's only a small piece of the pie. The rabbit whole goes much, much deeper.
The MMO industry is one that is unlike every other sector of the economy except for the movie business.
Massive front end investment means that the investors need some guarantee that they'll get their money back and make a profit. Same is true in the movie and MMO business.
How does Hollywood handle this problem? Big name directors, big name actors, big name productions. The MMO industry is the same way. Big name companies, big name developers, big name IPs.
But, in the movie biz, occasionally we get a product that has limited production costs, but ends up a huge hit due to innovation / creativity. Or a huge, expensive production that lives up to the hype. Same in MMOs.
Do these innovative / creative writers/directors/actors sit down and say "I'm going to do something innovative/creative today!" Sometimes, if they are cocky a-holes. But most of the time, it's something that "just happens." Like Boondock Saints. Cult phenomenon.
WoW is an example of something that "just happen" that got bigger and more successful then anything else around. But Blizzard was smart, they got some great devs, a great IP, and the backing of a great company to tilt the odds in their favor that they'd strike it rich.
You can't force the next big thing. You can't beg for it. You can't even ask for it. It's futile.
You just have to wait for it.
Spoken by someone who is self-aggrandizing with absolutely no clue about my background or fields of study. So, what exactly was the point of your condescending tone? I mean, clarify it for me since I've only "read a few articles"? Why did you feel the need to idiotically associate me with "liberal college professors""? Give me a break, I'm 35 years old. I'm not some hippie college student spouting socialist rhetoric, so spare me your vapid analysis, you fail.
You go right ahead and tell me where I was incorrect and justify your arrogance. Clearly, an intellectual giant like yourself can explain this clearly without making us mere mortals chase him down a "whole". You argue a negative assumption and put words in my post that I never typed. I pointed out the disincentive of varying from a proven succesful business model in a production based economy in america and how that hampers innovation. I said nothing about forcing anyone to do anything. Maybe you just skipped the entire part where I explained the humble origins of the cotton gin and steam engine? Things like that "just happen" because research and development in production based economies focuses on improving existing production techniques rather than true innovation.
It's amazing to me how people expect exponential growth, complexity, innovation, and depth release after release. Nothing works that way, folks. Truly innovative, genre-challenging, unique products (in any sector) are VERY rare. Don't hold your breath for this stuff. It comes along once every 5-10 years.
I agree. Examples:
Doom ----> Half-Life ----->Battlefield Games
Command and Conquer ----> Starcraft ----> World in Conflict
Everquest -----> WoW -----> ???
Although you can disagree with the game choices, the point is valid. I picked those because of the genre redefining elements and sales figures.
It seems as though the American theme of Mediocrity has infilitrated the MMO gaming industry. I was hoping that it would end with the music and television industries, but apparently the MMO industry has jumped on the bandwagon. Nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases. It seems like they will eventually be dumbed down to the likes of network-based first person shooters. I think that most older players would agree with me, but many younger players are content with the garbage that is being shoved down their throats for their instant gratification. I want an MMO that will keep me enthralled for more than 2 weeks. Is their anything on the horizon that will accomplish this? I think not. My hopes for a TRUE MMO has been squashed like a bug under the boot of the MMO factories.
I have to agree with you.
And for those who tout WOW's success: yeah, WOW is a better game if you're TWELVE YEARS OLD.
But for the mature sandbox MMO gamer, the current crop of games falls way short.
It seems as though the American theme of Mediocrity has infilitrated the MMO gaming industry. I was hoping that it would end with the music and television industries, but apparently the MMO industry has jumped on the bandwagon. Nothing released in the past 3-4 years has been on par with previous MMO releases. It seems like they will eventually be dumbed down to the likes of network-based first person shooters. I think that most older players would agree with me, but many younger players are content with the garbage that is being shoved down their throats for their instant gratification. I want an MMO that will keep me enthralled for more than 2 weeks. Is their anything on the horizon that will accomplish this? I think not. My hopes for a TRUE MMO has been squashed like a bug under the boot of the MMO factories.
I have to agree with you.
And for those who tout WOW's success: yeah, WOW is a better game if you're TWELVE YEARS OLD.
But for the mature sandbox MMO gamer, the current crop of games falls way short.
And Eve is a "success" if you can even call it that, because its the ONLY space MMO out there and only if you're a Trekkie nerd with no life. Who else would roleplay and argue over virtual space politics? How freakin sad=) Eve has less subscribers than UO when it released and its pretty well accepted that a large portion of Eve's playerbase consists of the same people with multiple accounts.
Eve falls way short in whats most important when playing a game...FUN.
And for those who tout WOW's success: yeah, WOW is a better game if you're TWELVE YEARS OLD.
I like WoW because it delivers what it promises. When you play WoW / guild wars / lineage, you get what you pay for.
I hate unfinished promises like Vanguard, God's of Heroes, D&N etc. SoE is particularly good at them. I hope for the fans WAR isn't another one like those.
WoW is finished, maybe it's run of the mill, but it's a finished product, and not some hype driven vapoware.
Spoken by someone who is self-aggrandizing with absolutely no clue about my background or fields of study. So, what exactly was the point of your condescending tone? I mean, clarify it for me since I've only "read a few articles"? Why did you feel the need to idiotically associate me with "liberal college professors""? Give me a break, I'm 35 years old. I'm not some hippie college student spouting socialist rhetoric, so spare me your vapid analysis, you fail.
You go right ahead and tell me where I was incorrect and justify your arrogance. Clearly, an intellectual giant like yourself can explain this clearly without making us mere mortals chase him down a "whole". You argue a negative assumption and put words in my post that I never typed. I pointed out the disincentive of varying from a proven succesful business model in a production based economy in america and how that hampers innovation. I said nothing about forcing anyone to do anything. Maybe you just skipped the entire part where I explained the humble origins of the cotton gin and steam engine? Things like that "just happen" because research and development in production based economies focuses on improving existing production techniques rather than true innovation.
Whoa whoa whoa chill out.
It's the internet, you are judged by your words. Judged by your text. That's all. That's the only thing you get to present to this world.
If you're really 35, I'd expect a little more maturity.
Comparing the auto industry to the MMO industry is comparing apples and oranges. The US auto industry can't compete with the foreign markets because we have this problem, American's like to get paid fair wages for their work. Hence, all the "American" cars are now made over seas.
Brands like Toyota are now opening US manufacturing plants. Why? They don't "need" the plants to produce their cars. I'd bet a million bucks that they are only opening US plants to convince American's to buy "foreign" cars.
The US auto industry is not being killed due to lack of innovation. NOBODY is innovating in the auto world, if they were, we'd all be driving fuel cell and/or electric cars 10 years ago. The technology is there, it has been there, it's FINALLY starting to catch some momentum due to 3.00$+ gas at the pump in America. 100$ a barrel oil. Etc. Gas prices are finally starting to "hurt" enough for innovation in the auto world to be forced.
Every "US" manufacturer has been improving gas mileage over the past 4-5 years. They are passing laws in Congress to raise fuel standards even higher in the next 10-20 years.
The "US" auto industry is being killed due to competition. Pay your workers next to nothing, or even better, outsource all laber overseas and be able to sell your product a LOT cheaper in the US, and you'll beat US industry every time. It's the Wallmart effect.
Nearly every once solely US industry is hurting due to unfair competition in the global market economy. We're being outsourced to Hell in a handbasket. Take a look around, what percent of things in your field of vision were manufactured overseas? 90%? 95%? Wanna bet they were made by cheaper labor then you could get in the US? And the politicians are brought into power by money, we have a pay-to-play system of government. You have to have money to run for office in order to run for office. It's true. Who fronts the bill? Special interest groups i.e. Big Business who don't care that US workers are suffering, as long as they make their billions a year, and they do that easier through outsourcing. Bought-and-paid-for Government writes the laws, Big Business picks up the tab an reaps the reward.
It's fact.
Your argument sounded like the same dribble I've heard time and time again from hippy drum circle politics and angst-filled teenie blogs. I'm sorry to offend you, but it's true.
You've gotta see the bigger picture to understand it.
Your points had nothing to do with the MMO industry, at all. Mine, about comparing the MMO industry to the movie business, did. Read it again, if you wish. (big front end investment in product means blah blah blah so you go with what works i.e. big actors/directors blah blah blah etc.)
Every form of media entertainment has become mediocre. It especially got worse right after 9/11 happened. People just need distractions in the world now, even if they aren't all that good- and all the no talent hacks that never would have made it 5 or 10 years ago are cashing in.
Give it time. It'll pass.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Comments
Spoken like someone whose read a few articles, maybe even take a class or two from some liberal professor.
You are right, to some extent, but that's only a small piece of the pie. The rabbit whole goes much, much deeper.
The MMO industry is one that is unlike every other sector of the economy except for the movie business.
Massive front end investment means that the investors need some guarantee that they'll get their money back and make a profit. Same is true in the movie and MMO business.
How does Hollywood handle this problem? Big name directors, big name actors, big name productions. The MMO industry is the same way. Big name companies, big name developers, big name IPs.
But, in the movie biz, occasionally we get a product that has limited production costs, but ends up a huge hit due to innovation / creativity. Or a huge, expensive production that lives up to the hype. Same in MMOs.
Do these innovative / creative writers/directors/actors sit down and say "I'm going to do something innovative/creative today!" Sometimes, if they are cocky a-holes. But most of the time, it's something that "just happens." Like Boondock Saints. Cult phenomenon.
WoW is an example of something that "just happen" that got bigger and more successful then anything else around. But Blizzard was smart, they got some great devs, a great IP, and the backing of a great company to tilt the odds in their favor that they'd strike it rich.
You can't force the next big thing. You can't beg for it. You can't even ask for it. It's futile.
You just have to wait for it.
Spoken by someone who is self-aggrandizing with absolutely no clue about my background or fields of study. So, what exactly was the point of your condescending tone? I mean, clarify it for me since I've only "read a few articles"? Why did you feel the need to idiotically associate me with "liberal college professors""? Give me a break, I'm 35 years old. I'm not some hippie college student spouting socialist rhetoric, so spare me your vapid analysis, you fail.You go right ahead and tell me where I was incorrect and justify your arrogance. Clearly, an intellectual giant like yourself can explain this clearly without making us mere mortals chase him down a "whole". You argue a negative assumption and put words in my post that I never typed. I pointed out the disincentive of varying from a proven succesful business model in a production based economy in america and how that hampers innovation. I said nothing about forcing anyone to do anything. Maybe you just skipped the entire part where I explained the humble origins of the cotton gin and steam engine? Things like that "just happen" because research and development in production based economies focuses on improving existing production techniques rather than true innovation.
I agree. Examples:
Doom ----> Half-Life ----->Battlefield Games
Command and Conquer ----> Starcraft ----> World in Conflict
Everquest -----> WoW -----> ???
Although you can disagree with the game choices, the point is valid. I picked those because of the genre redefining elements and sales figures.
And for those who tout WOW's success: yeah, WOW is a better game if you're TWELVE YEARS OLD.
But for the mature sandbox MMO gamer, the current crop of games falls way short.
And for those who tout WOW's success: yeah, WOW is a better game if you're TWELVE YEARS OLD.
But for the mature sandbox MMO gamer, the current crop of games falls way short.
And Eve is a "success" if you can even call it that, because its the ONLY space MMO out there and only if you're a Trekkie nerd with no life. Who else would roleplay and argue over virtual space politics? How freakin sad=) Eve has less subscribers than UO when it released and its pretty well accepted that a large portion of Eve's playerbase consists of the same people with multiple accounts.
Eve falls way short in whats most important when playing a game...FUN.
I like WoW because it delivers what it promises. When you play WoW / guild wars / lineage, you get what you pay for.
I hate unfinished promises like Vanguard, God's of Heroes, D&N etc. SoE is particularly good at them. I hope for the fans WAR isn't another one like those.
WoW is finished, maybe it's run of the mill, but it's a finished product, and not some hype driven vapoware.
It's the internet, you are judged by your words. Judged by your text. That's all. That's the only thing you get to present to this world.
If you're really 35, I'd expect a little more maturity.
Comparing the auto industry to the MMO industry is comparing apples and oranges. The US auto industry can't compete with the foreign markets because we have this problem, American's like to get paid fair wages for their work. Hence, all the "American" cars are now made over seas.
Brands like Toyota are now opening US manufacturing plants. Why? They don't "need" the plants to produce their cars. I'd bet a million bucks that they are only opening US plants to convince American's to buy "foreign" cars.
The US auto industry is not being killed due to lack of innovation. NOBODY is innovating in the auto world, if they were, we'd all be driving fuel cell and/or electric cars 10 years ago. The technology is there, it has been there, it's FINALLY starting to catch some momentum due to 3.00$+ gas at the pump in America. 100$ a barrel oil. Etc. Gas prices are finally starting to "hurt" enough for innovation in the auto world to be forced.
Every "US" manufacturer has been improving gas mileage over the past 4-5 years. They are passing laws in Congress to raise fuel standards even higher in the next 10-20 years.
The "US" auto industry is being killed due to competition. Pay your workers next to nothing, or even better, outsource all laber overseas and be able to sell your product a LOT cheaper in the US, and you'll beat US industry every time. It's the Wallmart effect.
Nearly every once solely US industry is hurting due to unfair competition in the global market economy. We're being outsourced to Hell in a handbasket. Take a look around, what percent of things in your field of vision were manufactured overseas? 90%? 95%? Wanna bet they were made by cheaper labor then you could get in the US? And the politicians are brought into power by money, we have a pay-to-play system of government. You have to have money to run for office in order to run for office. It's true. Who fronts the bill? Special interest groups i.e. Big Business who don't care that US workers are suffering, as long as they make their billions a year, and they do that easier through outsourcing. Bought-and-paid-for Government writes the laws, Big Business picks up the tab an reaps the reward.
It's fact.
Your argument sounded like the same dribble I've heard time and time again from hippy drum circle politics and angst-filled teenie blogs. I'm sorry to offend you, but it's true.
You've gotta see the bigger picture to understand it.
Your points had nothing to do with the MMO industry, at all. Mine, about comparing the MMO industry to the movie business, did. Read it again, if you wish. (big front end investment in product means blah blah blah so you go with what works i.e. big actors/directors blah blah blah etc.)
the big companies won't take chances. And the small companies don't have the resources to pull it off.
So yes, we are very much doomed.
Every form of media entertainment has become mediocre. It especially got worse right after 9/11 happened. People just need distractions in the world now, even if they aren't all that good- and all the no talent hacks that never would have made it 5 or 10 years ago are cashing in.
Give it time. It'll pass.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.