This game is a challenge but the issue I have is with the aggro. The rat dugeon especially. You attack one rat and before you know it the whole dugeon full of rats wants a peice of you. The only way out od that is death or a super power character. And if you are super powerful, then you do not need to do this dugeon. Oh well I plan on being on again this weekend and dieing.
Here is another concern of mine. If you are 3 lvls greated than the one mob you are attacking then you should be able to kill it no matter what class you are playing but in VG I was finally able to kill a lvl 14 mob that drops the sapphire powder. I am now lvl 17 so it is either I do not know how to play or the game is challenging or sometimes impossible. Also I am beginning to notice lvl 26 and 27 mobs in 15-18 lvl sections. Does anyone know why this is occurring? When I see one of those I run as fast as my elf feet will carry me.
I still like the game and I hope to reach lvl 20 by the end of the weekend. I travel so I do not get to play as much.
Folks you know this old legend about the 3 blind men and the Elephant? There were 3 blind men, and none in their village had ever seen an elephant, so when the 3 blind men found one and came back they described him thus: The first said an elephant is like long, wiggling tube with holes at the end, the second said no, an elephant is like a big barrel and the third said, no an elephant is a small, thin rope with a bush at the end.
Now thats what you do. You tell me VG isnt hard because your class/playstyle/areas-you-play-in are not hard.
The point is, I know well you can slip through the easy zones with a strong character and if you craft or harvest get money for good gear.
However, I am an adventurer so I dont craft and harvest, so I only get the quest drops. And boys, they are NOT uber! There are a few group-centered questlines you can follow which drops uber gear, but even the complicated, longwinded TK questline gives only trash reward - as SO many quests and drops! Lets be honest here, compared to other MMOs VGis quite a miser. You get little coin and shabby rewards for most things. Period.
Second, yeah a Necro or Disc may solo way better, and guess what I HAVE a Disc, but I stuck that lv 29 wall with him where mysteriously I wait WAY longer suddenly to get a group for my quests than before. For whatever reason. So when ppl tell me they played to 20 or what and died 3 times, they either played in baby-mode only againt WAY lower mobs or have many close friends playing VG to group all the time with people they know. I dont think those people EVER saw a dungeon from the inside, btw.
I mean go to Kraghnors End (sp?) and follow the first ramp down. Go with a duo into Ksaravi Caves (they are 2 dot, so manything more isnt really worth it IMO and I get TELLS anytime I ask for a second to accompany me "hey you can solo this" AS IF I ASKED THAT.)
Last night I duoed with a Shaman and my Ranger, he 13 I 14 this spider cave near Veskals. The 2 dot things are easy stuff, no complain. But the lv 13 3 dot area... I mean it SHOULD me managable with a healer/dps duo. But here add from around the corner DEATH, there repop 2 seconds after kill DEATH, running almost BLIND into a big mob because of the MF SNOW IN THE NIGHT - DEATH. Never seen beforre names pops right when I try to recover my tombstone (5 dot) DEATH. Mysteriously some lv 11 2dot sees through my sneak and 5 jump on me DEATH. Spider sunk into a boulder so I didnt see her DEATH. Spiders following me more than the 45 sprint lasts DEATH.
Thats the report of the FACTS.
I mean sure I can stay on the safe meadows around Veskals soloing easy 2 dots in safety instead of wanting to see new places. Sure I can get a group of 5 into this place and dont care about XP income. Sure I can ignore all the stories behind the quest and just grind. But you know `what? For me that feels like a waste? Why should I play a MMO and then only stay in the narrow safe roads? I dont think its too much to ask that this game is playable in all areas by all classes in a BIT more stratetically meaningful way. Where you are NOT overpowered by insta repop, tons of roamers, unpredictable invis breaks, mobs who pursue you ENDLESS and plain bugs to round up the fun.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Like another poster said the HL quest gear will be good for 20 levels into your 40's. Quest gear is easy to get and greatly overpowered.
Another poster said the problem is getting to level 20 solo. One can get to level 20 in about 1 day played without a single death solo just buy following the questlines. It is impossible to do even half of the 1-20 solo quests without them becoming grey. There are 4 quest areas at every level throughout the game. To get to 20 do the following. 1-10 in your starter area. 10-14 in VoH and Racetrack. You can also add Themwar's sheild and QA riverbank to that mix. At 14 move to the quests at the tower south of racetrack then to the quests in tod and taurathian delta area. That will get you to 16. From there move on to the URT quests at Renton Keep. These will give you 5 yellow armor pieces. You can do the weapon quest to but last time I did it was very time consuming and not worth the effort IMO. This should get you to 19. Now you can head to Misthaven and get to 21 or head over to qalia and do the HL quest series. That will get you to 23-25 and will outfit you into your 40's. CIS, the mount quest, TK or any optional areas will get you easily to 30. Wardship will get you to 40. Dargun's Tomb weapon quest, Graystone weapon quest and your close to 45. NN and RI 50.
Now your 50 you can think about twinking yourself with crafted gear as you will need it for APW. But for leveling 1-50 there are no challenging mobs or encounters. Vanguard is simply easy leveling which is so fast one outlevels most quest areas and one has to skip 90% of the games content. Every class with the exception of Rogue and Warrior (might have changed with their revamp last patch) can solo easily. Players are simply much to powerful for the mobs they are fighting. All mobs with the exception of 2 dots need their power greatly increased,
Zippy .. you have to understand it's a huge difference between being an experienced VG player and a new player. Yes for me the content is easy. I get used to the fast respawn and can pull effectively mobs from a larger groups and might be able to get to level 50 within 2 weeks. But the learning curve is not as fast as you remember it. I recall dying a lot on my first characters. I was dying every 10 minutes with my psionicist.
And you don't skip 90% content, you skip like 50% as you level up. That's a GOOD thing. It is another motivation to level up an alt going a different route next time. And also you can actually choose which quests you want to do, and gives an option to roleplay and help only some races or help only female NPC's or whatever.
To OP: yes the game is more challenging for a start. The spider cave is pretty nasty, but it's the same with every dungeon. One mistake and it's a wipe for the whole party. But after you get into the system you will find out paths how to die less often, how to maximize your effeciency etc.
And to be honest.. I have not met a person that would tell me if I asked him to join for something "you can do it by yourself" There are lots of people that will jon a group, because it's faster no matter whether you're grinding or questing. The group XP bonus is huge.
I feel the leveling is not too fast at all, nor do I think it's too slow. If you become hardcore about gaining fast lvls you'll find ways to do it. If you prefer to solo and grind, it'll take you longer than if your grouping often with the questlines. I've bitten the dust a few times, and many times I just charged in without thinking or I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings. It can keep you on your toes. It's not that it's hard or easy, it's just how you approach your situation, and what strategy is needed. Grinding 2 dots is easy, but manvuering thru 3/4 dots can be tricky. I do think that some dungeons could be more strategic (not necessarily harder). More problem solving and less grinding.
Zippy .. you have to understand it's a huge difference between being an experienced VG player and a new player. Yes for me the content is easy. I get used to the fast respawn and can pull effectively mobs from a larger groups and might be able to get to level 50 within 2 weeks. But the learning curve is not as fast as you remember it. I recall dying a lot on my first characters. I was dying every 10 minutes with my psionicist.
Thank you for summing that up Thillian. I can remember dying repeatedly in Achtalan, Ksaravi, Khegor's, Kalendra's, ToD, pretty much any dungeon area with level 10-20s. I think anyone saying these areas are not harsh to newcomers might not have the most accurate recollection of their low levels. Either that, or perhaps they stuck to the overland areas and away from all the exciting content.
And to be honest.. I have not met a person that would tell me if I asked him to join for something "you can do it by yourself" There are lots of people that will jon a group, because it's faster no matter whether you're grinding or questing. The group XP bonus is huge.
I have to disagree with this. I see it almost every time I'm in game. Someone will /region "lvl 10 Psion LFG", and without fail someone will /region "Solo at lvl 10, there's no need to group that low". What's worse, is it's somewhat regular for a player to /region "These quests are hard though, and I can't find the mobs". To which someone will respond "Go back to WoW then"
Zippy .. you have to understand it's a huge difference between being an experienced VG player and a new player. Yes for me the content is easy. I get used to the fast respawn and can pull effectively mobs from a larger groups and might be able to get to level 50 within 2 weeks. But the learning curve is not as fast as you remember it. I recall dying a lot on my first characters. I was dying every 10 minutes with my psionicist. Thank you for summing that up Thillian. I can remember dying repeatedly in Achtalan, Ksaravi, Khegor's, Kalendra's, ToD, pretty much any dungeon area with level 10-20s. I think anyone saying these areas are not harsh to newcomers might not have the most accurate recollection of their low levels. Either that, or perhaps they stuck to the overland areas and away from all the exciting content. And to be honest.. I have not met a person that would tell me if I asked him to join for something "you can do it by yourself" There are lots of people that will jon a group, because it's faster no matter whether you're grinding or questing. The group XP bonus is huge. I have to disagree with this. I see it almost every time I'm in game. Someone will /region "lvl 10 Psion LFG", and without fail someone will /region "Solo at lvl 10, there's no need to group that low". What's worse, is it's somewhat regular for a player to /region "These quests are hard though, and I can't find the mobs". To which someone will respond "Go back to WoW then"
I see this all the time too. I saw it EVERYNIGHT on Xeth and I recently transfered my mains to Seradon( supposedly where the population is GREAT!) and Im seeing it there too. The a lot of the VG community is Nasty and they alienate people.
Watch your thoughts; they become words. Watch your words; they become actions. Watch your actions; they become habits. Watch your habits; they become character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny. Lao-Tze
Thats bull#$$% ive seen that said maybe twice in vanguard and both times the person was been a whining little baby in general chat , despite the fact that i dont blame people for telling the guy to shut up it not the approach that i would take ,games have an ignore feature for a reason
Name one game where people that play it will put up with a person verbally whining about the game in general chat . Ive never seen anyone be rude to anyone no matter what thier level for asking a question or looking for a group
Oh and i play on seradon to and theres people all over ,guess you bashers just go out of your way not to find them. I get more /tells asking me if i want to group or go here than anygame ive ever played and am not even looking for a group
Name one game where people that play it will put up with a person verbally whining about the game in general chat . Ive never seen anyone be rude to anyone no matter what thier level for asking a question or looking for a group
I'll name for you a game where the community was gracious and helpful. A game where the player base was very tolerant of new players with a mountain of questions. A game where judgements of people on a personal level were extremely uncommon in region chat.
Vanguard, in August of 2007.
The VG community has changed for the worse since I left in September.
The comminty of vanguard is awesome but your right there is a few idiots in general chat from time to time. but its no worse than any game out there and your not kidding anybody by pretending it is.
These forums are full of people that know nothing, pretending they know everything
The community is still great. The quality level of PUGS is high. 75% of people that ran past you will buff you with all buffs they have. Most of the people will help you if they see you dying with a hard mob. Actually I have not played a MMORPG yet where so many people buff you anywhere you meet them.
The general chat is a different story. Especially during the christmas when it's free for old-players. There was some silly talks recently, but it's always like what.. between 5-6 people? And it usually stops in a few minutes. And it's never really an argue, it's more like the silly talk you see in other games, that you do not expect to see in VG.
In addition, you say the people are not able to find groups using general chat. Yes. Because the parties in VG are not formed throught general chat!. Most of the people do not read it or have turned off. You have a special social bar where you can see all the players around your level that you can send a private message and ask them if they want to join you. And believe me, most of the time they will, because as I said. The group XP bonus is worthy and it is much faster to do anything in the game (even 2-dotted quests) in 3-4 man groups.
I'm not the kind of guy that would play with tons of friends. I usually don't play the same games as my friends and I'm coming to MMORPG alone. But everytime I want to do some dungeon or some group quest in VG. It never takes more than 10-15 minutes to form some.
Yes the game looks empty... it's like what.. 3-4 times bigger than WoW? and 10 times bigger than Lotro? And hundred of times bigger than EQ2? It has .. around 15 huge capital towns, and another 40-50 smaller towns with own auction house, banks, crafting halls. The amount of players online at any time is pretty high (around 800-1500 on Halgar that is the least populated) which gives around 20-30 players at each level. So that's always around 200 people online that you can party with and that is close to your level.
Zippy .. you have to understand it's a huge difference between being an experienced VG player and a new player. Yes for me the content is easy. I get used to the fast respawn and can pull effectively mobs from a larger groups and might be able to get to level 50 within 2 weeks. But the learning curve is not as fast as you remember it. I recall dying a lot on my first characters. I was dying every 10 minutes with my psionicist. Thank you for summing that up Thillian. I can remember dying repeatedly in Achtalan, Ksaravi, Khegor's, Kalendra's, ToD, pretty much any dungeon area with level 10-20s. I think anyone saying these areas are not harsh to newcomers might not have the most accurate recollection of their low levels. Either that, or perhaps they stuck to the overland areas and away from all the exciting content.
Oh yes I remember dying like 50 times in the 14-18 spider cave near Veskal Exchange. Or in the gardens in Kojan.
But still, I can't understand why people keep saying VG is not harder than other games? Yes basically the once you're in combat fightning one or two 2dotted mobs, it's pretty easy. But manage to understand the patrol routes, right pulling, respawn rate, crafting system&quests, combat weakness, all the factors like combat awaraness, reasoning, utility skills,... makes the game more difficult!
Difficult game is not only a game that forces you to be online 20 hours a day and where you have to spent 40 played days to get to max level. Difficult game might also be a game that requires you to use your brain to understand and especially to learn all its mechanics and use your knowledge to improve your effeciency.
The comminty of vanguard is awesome but your right there is a few idiots in general chat from time to time. but its no worse than any game out there and your not kidding anybody by pretending it is. These forums are full of people that know nothing, pretending they know everything
I never implied that the VG community was worse than any other game out there. I simply stated that the VG community (in my experiences) is now average in comparison, whereas back in August I held it in a higher esteem.
Comments
This game is a challenge but the issue I have is with the aggro. The rat dugeon especially. You attack one rat and before you know it the whole dugeon full of rats wants a peice of you. The only way out od that is death or a super power character. And if you are super powerful, then you do not need to do this dugeon. Oh well I plan on being on again this weekend and dieing.
Here is another concern of mine. If you are 3 lvls greated than the one mob you are attacking then you should be able to kill it no matter what class you are playing but in VG I was finally able to kill a lvl 14 mob that drops the sapphire powder. I am now lvl 17 so it is either I do not know how to play or the game is challenging or sometimes impossible. Also I am beginning to notice lvl 26 and 27 mobs in 15-18 lvl sections. Does anyone know why this is occurring? When I see one of those I run as fast as my elf feet will carry me.
I still like the game and I hope to reach lvl 20 by the end of the weekend. I travel so I do not get to play as much.
Folks you know this old legend about the 3 blind men and the Elephant? There were 3 blind men, and none in their village had ever seen an elephant, so when the 3 blind men found one and came back they described him thus: The first said an elephant is like long, wiggling tube with holes at the end, the second said no, an elephant is like a big barrel and the third said, no an elephant is a small, thin rope with a bush at the end.
Now thats what you do. You tell me VG isnt hard because your class/playstyle/areas-you-play-in are not hard.
The point is, I know well you can slip through the easy zones with a strong character and if you craft or harvest get money for good gear.
However, I am an adventurer so I dont craft and harvest, so I only get the quest drops. And boys, they are NOT uber! There are a few group-centered questlines you can follow which drops uber gear, but even the complicated, longwinded TK questline gives only trash reward - as SO many quests and drops! Lets be honest here, compared to other MMOs VGis quite a miser. You get little coin and shabby rewards for most things. Period.
Second, yeah a Necro or Disc may solo way better, and guess what I HAVE a Disc, but I stuck that lv 29 wall with him where mysteriously I wait WAY longer suddenly to get a group for my quests than before. For whatever reason. So when ppl tell me they played to 20 or what and died 3 times, they either played in baby-mode only againt WAY lower mobs or have many close friends playing VG to group all the time with people they know. I dont think those people EVER saw a dungeon from the inside, btw.
I mean go to Kraghnors End (sp?) and follow the first ramp down. Go with a duo into Ksaravi Caves (they are 2 dot, so manything more isnt really worth it IMO and I get TELLS anytime I ask for a second to accompany me "hey you can solo this" AS IF I ASKED THAT.)
Last night I duoed with a Shaman and my Ranger, he 13 I 14 this spider cave near Veskals. The 2 dot things are easy stuff, no complain. But the lv 13 3 dot area... I mean it SHOULD me managable with a healer/dps duo. But here add from around the corner DEATH, there repop 2 seconds after kill DEATH, running almost BLIND into a big mob because of the MF SNOW IN THE NIGHT - DEATH. Never seen beforre names pops right when I try to recover my tombstone (5 dot) DEATH. Mysteriously some lv 11 2dot sees through my sneak and 5 jump on me DEATH. Spider sunk into a boulder so I didnt see her DEATH. Spiders following me more than the 45 sprint lasts DEATH.
Thats the report of the FACTS.
I mean sure I can stay on the safe meadows around Veskals soloing easy 2 dots in safety instead of wanting to see new places. Sure I can get a group of 5 into this place and dont care about XP income. Sure I can ignore all the stories behind the quest and just grind. But you know `what? For me that feels like a waste? Why should I play a MMO and then only stay in the narrow safe roads? I dont think its too much to ask that this game is playable in all areas by all classes in a BIT more stratetically meaningful way. Where you are NOT overpowered by insta repop, tons of roamers, unpredictable invis breaks, mobs who pursue you ENDLESS and plain bugs to round up the fun.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Like another poster said the HL quest gear will be good for 20 levels into your 40's. Quest gear is easy to get and greatly overpowered.
Another poster said the problem is getting to level 20 solo. One can get to level 20 in about 1 day played without a single death solo just buy following the questlines. It is impossible to do even half of the 1-20 solo quests without them becoming grey. There are 4 quest areas at every level throughout the game. To get to 20 do the following. 1-10 in your starter area. 10-14 in VoH and Racetrack. You can also add Themwar's sheild and QA riverbank to that mix. At 14 move to the quests at the tower south of racetrack then to the quests in tod and taurathian delta area. That will get you to 16. From there move on to the URT quests at Renton Keep. These will give you 5 yellow armor pieces. You can do the weapon quest to but last time I did it was very time consuming and not worth the effort IMO. This should get you to 19. Now you can head to Misthaven and get to 21 or head over to qalia and do the HL quest series. That will get you to 23-25 and will outfit you into your 40's. CIS, the mount quest, TK or any optional areas will get you easily to 30. Wardship will get you to 40. Dargun's Tomb weapon quest, Graystone weapon quest and your close to 45. NN and RI 50.
Now your 50 you can think about twinking yourself with crafted gear as you will need it for APW. But for leveling 1-50 there are no challenging mobs or encounters. Vanguard is simply easy leveling which is so fast one outlevels most quest areas and one has to skip 90% of the games content. Every class with the exception of Rogue and Warrior (might have changed with their revamp last patch) can solo easily. Players are simply much to powerful for the mobs they are fighting. All mobs with the exception of 2 dots need their power greatly increased,
Zippy .. you have to understand it's a huge difference between being an experienced VG player and a new player. Yes for me the content is easy. I get used to the fast respawn and can pull effectively mobs from a larger groups and might be able to get to level 50 within 2 weeks. But the learning curve is not as fast as you remember it. I recall dying a lot on my first characters. I was dying every 10 minutes with my psionicist.
And you don't skip 90% content, you skip like 50% as you level up. That's a GOOD thing. It is another motivation to level up an alt going a different route next time. And also you can actually choose which quests you want to do, and gives an option to roleplay and help only some races or help only female NPC's or whatever.
To OP: yes the game is more challenging for a start. The spider cave is pretty nasty, but it's the same with every dungeon. One mistake and it's a wipe for the whole party. But after you get into the system you will find out paths how to die less often, how to maximize your effeciency etc.
And to be honest.. I have not met a person that would tell me if I asked him to join for something "you can do it by yourself" There are lots of people that will jon a group, because it's faster no matter whether you're grinding or questing. The group XP bonus is huge.
REALITY CHECK
I feel the leveling is not too fast at all, nor do I think it's too slow. If you become hardcore about gaining fast lvls you'll find ways to do it. If you prefer to solo and grind, it'll take you longer than if your grouping often with the questlines. I've bitten the dust a few times, and many times I just charged in without thinking or I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings. It can keep you on your toes. It's not that it's hard or easy, it's just how you approach your situation, and what strategy is needed. Grinding 2 dots is easy, but manvuering thru 3/4 dots can be tricky. I do think that some dungeons could be more strategic (not necessarily harder). More problem solving and less grinding.
I see this all the time too. I saw it EVERYNIGHT on Xeth and I recently transfered my mains to Seradon( supposedly where the population is GREAT!) and Im seeing it there too. The a lot of the VG community is Nasty and they alienate people.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Thats bull#$$% ive seen that said maybe twice in vanguard and both times the person was been a whining little baby in general chat , despite the fact that i dont blame people for telling the guy to shut up it not the approach that i would take ,games have an ignore feature for a reason
Name one game where people that play it will put up with a person verbally whining about the game in general chat . Ive never seen anyone be rude to anyone no matter what thier level for asking a question or looking for a group
Oh and i play on seradon to and theres people all over ,guess you bashers just go out of your way not to find them. I get more /tells asking me if i want to group or go here than anygame ive ever played and am not even looking for a group
I'll name for you a game where the community was gracious and helpful. A game where the player base was very tolerant of new players with a mountain of questions. A game where judgements of people on a personal level were extremely uncommon in region chat.
Vanguard, in August of 2007.
The VG community has changed for the worse since I left in September.
The comminty of vanguard is awesome but your right there is a few idiots in general chat from time to time. but its no worse than any game out there and your not kidding anybody by pretending it is.
These forums are full of people that know nothing, pretending they know everything
The community is still great. The quality level of PUGS is high. 75% of people that ran past you will buff you with all buffs they have. Most of the people will help you if they see you dying with a hard mob. Actually I have not played a MMORPG yet where so many people buff you anywhere you meet them.
The general chat is a different story. Especially during the christmas when it's free for old-players. There was some silly talks recently, but it's always like what.. between 5-6 people? And it usually stops in a few minutes. And it's never really an argue, it's more like the silly talk you see in other games, that you do not expect to see in VG.
In addition, you say the people are not able to find groups using general chat. Yes. Because the parties in VG are not formed throught general chat!. Most of the people do not read it or have turned off. You have a special social bar where you can see all the players around your level that you can send a private message and ask them if they want to join you. And believe me, most of the time they will, because as I said. The group XP bonus is worthy and it is much faster to do anything in the game (even 2-dotted quests) in 3-4 man groups.
I'm not the kind of guy that would play with tons of friends. I usually don't play the same games as my friends and I'm coming to MMORPG alone. But everytime I want to do some dungeon or some group quest in VG. It never takes more than 10-15 minutes to form some.
Yes the game looks empty... it's like what.. 3-4 times bigger than WoW? and 10 times bigger than Lotro? And hundred of times bigger than EQ2? It has .. around 15 huge capital towns, and another 40-50 smaller towns with own auction house, banks, crafting halls. The amount of players online at any time is pretty high (around 800-1500 on Halgar that is the least populated) which gives around 20-30 players at each level. So that's always around 200 people online that you can party with and that is close to your level.
REALITY CHECK
Oh yes I remember dying like 50 times in the 14-18 spider cave near Veskal Exchange. Or in the gardens in Kojan.
But still, I can't understand why people keep saying VG is not harder than other games? Yes basically the once you're in combat fightning one or two 2dotted mobs, it's pretty easy. But manage to understand the patrol routes, right pulling, respawn rate, crafting system&quests, combat weakness, all the factors like combat awaraness, reasoning, utility skills,... makes the game more difficult!
Difficult game is not only a game that forces you to be online 20 hours a day and where you have to spent 40 played days to get to max level. Difficult game might also be a game that requires you to use your brain to understand and especially to learn all its mechanics and use your knowledge to improve your effeciency.
REALITY CHECK
I never implied that the VG community was worse than any other game out there. I simply stated that the VG community (in my experiences) is now average in comparison, whereas back in August I held it in a higher esteem.