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Flying Mounts will be endgame mouts *sigh*
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
Recently there is a series of interviews on TenTonHammer, the first 2 parts about riftway and flying mounts. Its funny to make such a long series and give almost zero info. Almost every single question is answered with "we'll have to evaluate this". lol
Anyway, ONE info does surface. Flying Mounts will be high level, likely meaning you start with lv 45 and get it when your max level or so. While they say it will be for people without raid guilds in their back, they way they say it sounds like "ya you can, technically." I mean, otherwise there wouldnt BE any emphasis on raid guild in the first place.
I just dont see this is right. While I sure would not give it out for free to level 1 players, it sounds like one more step in the wrong direction. Owning Houses and Boats isnt level bound either, basic mounts can be attained with lv 10. Wasnt the idea of VG "set yourself free"? It wasnt "wait until lv 50 to set yourself free". I dont need a flying mount when I am lv 50 anymore, because then I am in game over mode and start a new character. For what do I need a flying mount then?? I see that as one more step away from the freedom of choice VG was supposed to be, like the old SWG also was. Being no friend of levels and always having preferred skill based MMOs I dont like level based access to things like mounts, houses, whatsoever, either.
I always thought giving the first flying mount for say lv 30 for the price of a sloop, about 40 gold, would be a fair compromise. What do I need a flying mount when I am lv 50? For nothing. Save for those jerks whose only pleasure in the game is placing their lv 50 toon in Tursh with their Griffon 24/7 for show-off. Meh.
It would have been one of the big chances to attract players, presenting VG as the game where you can have houses, ships and flying mounts, not as some far away on the horizon, but where you can get a basic version in mid game, not close to when you send your hero to old-age pension, like some kind of golden watch for goodbye.
I supported VG with my money since day 1, despite the problems, because I hoped and believed, but the direction and the slowness of change recently make me consider to leave once and for all.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
What they need to do is having a flying mount quest in the noob zones and a player housing quests and a player boat quest and quests for all the kool things the game has to offer. New players have no idea that any of this stuff is in the game.
Its interesting, since day 1, I always knew/had the feeling that Flying Mounts were going to be high level only.
I don't know why you are complaining about.
I wish, they wouldn't add flying mounts, they dump down the game even more, when you don't have to kill most mob groups.
Look at the reindeer time, lots of reindeers were flying over RI from one named to the next, that was boring.
Sounds just like the WoW mounts. And EVERYONE has a flying mount in WoW!
Errm, I wrote why I complain about it.
You can get basic mount with lv 10. You can get house and ship with lv 1, when you can afford it. I just dont see this limiting flying mounts to high end fits to the idea of "freedom" VG was supposed to be. I had hoped VG would be free of such linear restrictions, like the old SWG was. Now they follow the linear game mechanics of WOW and EQ2.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The thing is if you get a flying mount then what are the "ground" mounts good for? To be perfectly honest, I actually agree with the decision to make flying mounts something that you get at a higher level. There's already a variety of ground mounts.
Perhaps L45+ is a bit too much, but at level 40 that would be something that I would support seeing, below L40 it would be for me a game breaker, I don't want to see hundreds of people flying around.
For the last year and a half the Devs have said the flying mount quest will be around a minimum of level 45 and it fits the games design. You can start the Shadowhound and Unicorn quests at 24 and finish them at 30. Putting in a flying mount would cause these quests to be bypassed and also would allow players to by pass much content by flying over it as we saw with Randolph.
Leveling in Vanguard is super fast and easy. Leveling speed is comparable to WoW. If you really want a flying mount it will not take you long to get to level 45.
The bigger issue you bring up is the game is over for you once you reach level 50, When Vanguard was originally designed by Sigil the end game was not about raiding but about a variety of activities with Raiding only being a small part. While APW is very good it os essentially the only end game activity. Yes there is RI, ToT and swamp armor but that content is limited and can be completed in weeks. While I enjoy the raiding I think players who don;t raid should not find the game over for them at 50.
On another note Vanguard was designed for 100 levels with level cap to gradually increase as the game ages. Level 45 will gradually become lower level as the cap increases over the next few years.
Its just another big dissapointment for me. I didnt have the playtime for unicorn mount, thats just not in my spare time now anymore, being no student now. It just will widen the gap between those with much time and those with average time, and thats exactly what pissed me off in WOW and EQ2. Either you have MUCH time and a BIG guild and you get uber gear or you always walk behind the rest with trash. I dont like to be made 2nd class player by more and more mechanics which access valuabes only to ppl with much time. I already preferred no-gear centered games like CoH, but the more they widen gap between uber gear rich and powa players and casual ones the less I like to be there.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
If you do not have the time to do play the game why should you expect to be rewarded the same as people that actually play the game.
You say you do not have time to do the Unicorn or Shadowhound quest. They each take about 10 hours total to complete and can take a player from level 24 to 30 if you do both. They are simply game content like any quest in the game. You ca choose to skip land mount quests or the HL quests because they are time consuming and forego the mount or armor and weapon rewards. But you can always get better armor and weapons later. If you choose to skip the land mount quests you can always simply buy a comparable mount at a vendor.
Its hard for me to fathom a player saying its to time consuming so I will not do it. So they should give it to me instead. Why don't we just remove all the games content then and let you hit a button and get level 50 and all the gear. Because essentially your asking that the games content be removed so you can have your items without any work. Now if your going to argue that the land mount quests are boring or poorly designed and that they can be improved to be more enjoyable. I might agree with you.
Vanguard is already a super easy game where players are greatly overpowered compared to mobs, there is little challenge killing mobs, leveling speed is super fast and you want to gasp make the game even easier and even mroe trivial just because you can't be bothered to play the game in the first place.
What you seem to be saying si you want what everyone in the game has but you think its unfair they all play more than you and can it get it faster than you. Quite simply you will never be able to compete with these other players. Either you have to play the game at your own pace or tyou will have to resort to playing the forum board game and complaining how unfair the game is to you. Simply asking that that the game be set up so you can get rewards without putting in the work makes no sense. If you make it easier the rest of the players will still move thru content at 10 times your pace so you will be just even worse off.
L2 had an idea that you might like. It had a special korean server where players were limited to an average of 4 hours gameplay a day for the entire week. While it seems to be that you would be advocating a 4 minut per day server rather than 4 hours the idea is still moot. Unfortunatly such a server would only work in a game with a population to support such idea which could only be WoW and they have yet to explore any alternative server ideas.
Flying mounts really ruined all the over-land areas/dungeons. They were designed to be difficult to get at over land. Thelaseen and Tregal Keep were a joke with randolf compared to without.
I dunno why some ppl feel flying mounts "ruin" a game. In CoH you could fly as normal skill with lv... 20 or so. And did that ruin the game? Well, of course not. The idea how an alternative way of travel "ruins" a game is beyond me.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I have no problems with flying mounts getting you from Point A to Point B. (like WoW pre-Burning Crusade)
I think flying mounts ruin the game because it modifies the game in respect to the Terain.
Vanguard was designed with mountains and hills... not mountains to lock you into zones like Guild Wars, but mountains to climb and experience. Giving a flying mount bypasses content and give the user an easy button to complete quests and gather resources.
Not sure who said that flying mounts ruin a game. What I said is that the above ground quests and dungeons that were designed for overland travel were de-fanged by flying mounts. If some other game was designed with flying mounts in mind, then there wouldn't be a problem with exploiting them.
Here's the problem I see with the answers in the TTH interview. What about crafters and diplomats? Are they relegated to only ground mounts for travel simply because they don't adventure? I mean, I don't craft or diplo, but I really admire the ones that can stomach either.
Wait! I got an answer! Let the source of air travel be Hot-Air Balloons! They could be slower than the comparable tier ground mount but you will be able to make a straight shot to your destination.
I totally agree!
This reasoning is right on and it is a perfect example of why there's only 1 way to skin a cat in an MMO. If you can find a better or smarter way to complete a quest or mission, you are accused of exploiting. Who says clearing the way to a boss is the only way it should be done or even the right way? The people who choose to do it get more xp and more chances for something nice to drop. The people who don't, don't.
This is why things like stealth gets nerfed so hard in so many games too. Heaven forbid any character be smart enough to actually sneak past a guard or fly over an army to get to his or her objective. That would make too much sense. MMO mentality requires that you slice and dice everything in your path every time.
If you do not have the time to do play the game why should you expect to be rewarded the same as people that actually play the game.
You say you do not have time to do the Unicorn or Shadowhound quest. They each take about 10 hours total to complete and can take a player from level 24 to 30 if you do both. They are simply game content like any quest in the game. You ca choose to skip land mount quests or the HL quests because they are time consuming and forego the mount or armor and weapon rewards. But you can always get better armor and weapons later. If you choose to skip the land mount quests you can always simply buy a comparable mount at a vendor.
Its hard for me to fathom a player saying its to time consuming so I will not do it. So they should give it to me instead. Why don't we just remove all the games content then and let you hit a button and get level 50 and all the gear. Because essentially your asking that the games content be removed so you can have your items without any work. Now if your going to argue that the land mount quests are boring or poorly designed and that they can be improved to be more enjoyable. I might agree with you.
Vanguard is already a super easy game where players are greatly overpowered compared to mobs, there is little challenge killing mobs, leveling speed is super fast and you want to gasp make the game even easier and even mroe trivial just because you can't be bothered to play the game in the first place.
What you seem to be saying si you want what everyone in the game has but you think its unfair they all play more than you and can it get it faster than you. Quite simply you will never be able to compete with these other players. Either you have to play the game at your own pace or tyou will have to resort to playing the forum board game and complaining how unfair the game is to you. Simply asking that that the game be set up so you can get rewards without putting in the work makes no sense. If you make it easier the rest of the players will still move thru content at 10 times your pace so you will be just even worse off.
L2 had an idea that you might like. It had a special korean server where players were limited to an average of 4 hours gameplay a day for the entire week. While it seems to be that you would be advocating a 4 minut per day server rather than 4 hours the idea is still moot. Unfortunatly such a server would only work in a game with a population to support such idea which could only be WoW and they have yet to explore any alternative server ideas.
That is the most lame comment I have ever heard. Reason being because he is paying the same ammount as they are... reguardless of wether he plays for days at a time or hours.
Instead of pushing everything out of reach leaving it to higher lvl players, maybe they could add flying enemies all over in areas they don't want new players to skip to... ya think of that? Their are many things they can do to keep it balanced, what they are doing by pushng the level up is taking the easiest road, pathetic.
Also you say that new players will skip the zones and take out the bosses on their flying mounts... but you are mistaken. More than likley they will not even be strong enough to take the boss out without grinding through that zone. But guess who will. High lvl players that are bored and have already gone through all the good content. They will just fly to the bosses they know and kill them for the good loot so they can sell it.
Ah well, I'll reply with what I replied on the official forums: They should make Flying Mounts attainable only at lvl 50 at the end of a long expensive quest chain....BUT you should be able to unlock them on your alts at any time once you've completed the lvl 50 quest chain on your main. This would make them a REWARD and also give them actual use for people who don't like lvl 50 endgame.
Currently Playing: Tabula Rasa
Gaming History: EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, Anarchy Online, CoX, GW, SRO, Rakion, Ryzom, WoW, Rappelz, Shadowbane, 9Dragons, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, DnD Online, Space Cowboy, LotRO, Vanguard, Fury, Hellgate
Wanting to Play: WAR, TCoS, Darkfall, Aion
Not OK for having tons of level 10's flying around just because they had one level 50 alt who already unlocked the mount. Thats really stupid.
The point of these games is progression! you need to feel that you achieved that goal and not just paid money for it. If we could all access any area at any time we would lose all that. To me thats the whole point of the game, ...to achieve the right to be able to fly over an area that was previously inacessable or very diificult to get to. Now i have reached a high level and learned the skills to ride a charmed flying beast i can gain access to that area easily! but i had to earn it
Imagine the effect on economy if bosses were so easy to get to. ok at high level this will be a problem for some still...but dont forget at high level i dont need to farm level 30 bosses to earn cash when i have higher level bosses to farm. maybe they could make certain areas inacessable to flying mounts? maybe as you fly across RI the grand magician or whatever sees your mount and casts a wind spell to knock you back..that way bosses that are meant to be worked to still retain that process.
Remember that some areas are designed that way. they were designed from the start to be hard to reach, not to be trivialised by just dive bombing too.One thing i do think is a bit of a let down is the fact that there are no area's that can only be accessed by flying mounts.
Oh ye another point. flying mounts are already in game and available to low levels in the form of rentable mounts. so no one is saying that there wont be any available to lower levels
Flying mounts make the game world smaller by trivializing it. Much like teleporters can and space ships did in SWG. No matter how hard they are to get or how long they take to get, everyone will eventually have them.
There is also a certain social aspect to games when you run by people on streets, stop to buff someone, help someone in trouble with a fight or just simply ride through town and maybe stop because you see a gaggle of people.
I flew through ever zone in the game last weekend just because I wanted to see them before randolph was gone and took a series of screen shots. I'm not saying travel should be tedious, but it shouldn't be as the crow flies either. Maybe I'm just stuck on old ideas.
As to the debate about "we both pay the same amount". Yes everyone does and feel free to log on as much as they want to, which is the only thing that fee ensures. No one is entitled to loot/items or any other reward just because another player puts in more hours a month. There is nothing wrong with waiting to get something, especially when it takes everyone the same amount of effort.
This thread shows yet another thing that WoW did to ruin the MMORPG genre. Before you had to actually do something hard to be able to get something special. But now everything should be handed to us on golden platter and as soon as possible.
You know if everythingis easy to get and everyone got it, then nothing would be special and there wouldnt be anything worth striving for. Wasnt Vanguard supposed to be the opposite of WoW where everything is easy and casual?
Imo this newly introduced claim that every player should be able to do everything just because I paid for the game needs to be removed from MMORPGs. You are supposed to live in a virtual world and it should be like the real world where not everyone should have the right to fly in a Concorde or drive a Ferarri. You have to earn it...
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It has nothing to do with difficulty. It has to do with linearity and nonlinearity. Level requirement is the worst and easiest trick for devs to ensure the content is being explored in a linear way.
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