A plea from a long time gamer

BulletLoco

I dont post much here but im on mmorpg.com everyday. I have played mmo's for roughly 8 years now. Ive played everything under the sun, from AC1 to WoW and just about everything in between. Im not saying im the most 'hardcore' gamer, not by any stretch of the imagination. I do however play ALOT of mmo's and although i wont try to speak for the entire community, i can speak for myself.

I'll try to keep my examples mainstream games that i have played just because the majority have played them all too. WoW, EQ 1 and 2, DaoC,GW, CoX(many more apply but ill stick with those) are all great games in some way. They all bring something to the table that I enjoy. Of that list in my heart of hearts DaoC was and is still the best of that list. EQ1 would follow very very close second.

DaoC's RvR system was one of the great game ideas of my time. The excitement of 3 realm battles at once kept me coming back for more, i was subbed until about 2 months ago after years of hardcore and on/off playing. Now that it is so underpopulated i feel it really is time i just shut it down. Also the fact ive played it for about 5 years so just realistically im bored of it.

EQ was well, EQ. It was one of the first i played and i was in awe at simply the scale of the buildings and areas as opposed to your toon. The game was just mindblowingly huge. My first Necro couldnt even find his way out of Nektulos. You have to run. If you wanted to get somewhere and didnt have a druid handy you were footing it. Even with a port you still have a ways to go most of the time. You had to travel. You have to see the landscape and explore new places. You DID NOT have a choice. Choices are good, but EQ was made before ppl knew what choices they wanted to have in an mmo. EQ did everything right when there was no comparison on how to do it wrong.

I loved DaoC and EQ for their own reasons, played both for years but my real love was realized when i played Asherons Call. Better than DaoC, better than EQ, better then WoW, just hands down the best mmorpg i have ever played period. The game wasnt perfect by any means, but what it did right it did RIGHT.

Armor was a look, not a way of life. -- Other then looking good armor meant nothing. You buffed it yourself, most likely the spells that came on the armor were too low lvl for you to use anyway. You had to put the right spells on your armor(or just full buff for any element you face)to survive. There were NO tier sets, and at one point the buffs only lasted for 15 mins. They have since upped the timer on buffs, but if you got caught at the wrong time, with the wrong vuln on you, and your buffs started to wear off, night night. It kept you on your toes. You always had to keep your eyes open. The gear you had on had no bearing on you PvE or PvP. Pure player skill.

No instanced dungeons, no instanced anything. -- While some would think this was a shitty way of life, i thought it was great. I didnt really understand how great until i started playing games where almost nothing isnt instanced(see Guild Wars). You had your spots to hunt. Sometimes it was all yours, sometimes it wasnt. Sometimes no one else even knew about your spot. But it was get there first or move somewhere else. If you never experienced a pack or 30+ nublets all bunched together waited for the next luggy spawn because you knew it would be war, then you missed some fun fun stuff. Plus multiple ppl always died just about every spawn so the comedy factor was second to none.

Now this next feature in my opinion is the one thing AC did that no one else wants to touch, and its why the combat and PvP are still unmatched by any game.

Avoidable Projectiles. -- Its what made AC so different from all these other mmos we get now. Its why armor really didnt mean squat. Most importantly, NO I WIN BUTTONS. If it could be thrown it could be avoided, from arrows to lightning bolts to rocks mobs throw. Staying on your toes and moving was way of life in AC for this reason, especially PvP. Oh and 1 2 and 3 shot kills. Get caught slippin and it was dirt naps. It just made the char more you. It allowed ppl to be recognized by skill, not gear. And the ppl who were good at PvP, were damn good. Lvl 80's could run toe to toe with lvl 150's, if you were good enough. Its this very thing that no one used in these new mmos, and while until someone does i wont find what im looking for. I just cant do the click on you and push this button kill stuff anymore.

My plea is just this. Someone give me back my avoidables. I would play an AC remake without a doubt but thats not what im asking for. I do enjoy newer mmo's but its a 1-2 week kind of enjoyment. Everyone claims their game is revolutionary and different but they all go with this gameplay. I just like the sense of accomplishment that YOU killed that mob, or that person. Not that sense that your TOON killed that person. Im just this tired of button mashing. I mean ive got a 70 shaman on WoW, whats more button mashing then that?

Can someone make a game where your hand isnt held, were lvl and gear dont have more bearing on the outcome then if you are good enough or not.

 

 

Sharajat

The Chronicles of Spellborn is making noise like it might be what you're looking for.  I don't want to say anything about a game that hasn't been released yet, but it has some promise. 

Other than that, Fallen Earth is promising a twitch-based combat system, though we'll see.  Once again, game in development, no promises, etc. etc.  Anyone who tells you a game in development will have a single feature at this point is either crazy or a liar - we've seen so many bungled releases, its impossible to say for sure what any non-released game will have.

28days

Originally posted by BulletLoco


I dont post much here but im on mmorpg.com everyday. I have played mmo's for roughly 8 years now. Ive played everything under the sun, from AC1 to WoW and just about everything in between. Im not saying im the most 'hardcore' gamer, not by any stretch of the imagination. I do however play ALOT of mmo's and although i wont try to speak for the entire community, i can speak for myself.
I'll try to keep my examples mainstream games that i have played just because the majority have played them all too. WoW, EQ 1 and 2, DaoC,GW, CoX(many more apply but ill stick with those) are all great games in some way. They all bring something to the table that I enjoy. Of that list in my heart of hearts DaoC was and is still the best of that list. EQ1 would follow very very close second.
DaoC's RvR system was one of the great game ideas of my time. The excitement of 3 realm battles at once kept me coming back for more, i was subbed until about 2 months ago after years of hardcore and on/off playing. Now that it is so underpopulated i feel it really is time i just shut it down. Also the fact ive played it for about 5 years so just realistically im bored of it.
EQ was well, EQ. It was one of the first i played and i was in awe at simply the scale of the buildings and areas as opposed to your toon. The game was just mindblowingly huge. My first Necro couldnt even find his way out of Nektulos. You have to run. If you wanted to get somewhere and didnt have a druid handy you were footing it. Even with a port you still have a ways to go most of the time. You had to travel. You have to see the landscape and explore new places. You DID NOT have a choice. Choices are good, but EQ was made before ppl knew what choices they wanted to have in an mmo. EQ did everything right when there was no comparison on how to do it wrong.
I loved DaoC and EQ for their own reasons, played both for years but my real love was realized when i played Asherons Call. Better than DaoC, better than EQ, better then WoW, just hands down the best mmorpg i have ever played period. The game wasnt perfect by any means, but what it did right it did RIGHT.
Armor was a look, not a way of life. -- Other then looking good armor meant nothing. You buffed it yourself, most likely the spells that came on the armor were too low lvl for you to use anyway. You had to put the right spells on your armor(or just full buff for any element you face)to survive. There were NO tier sets, and at one point the buffs only lasted for 15 mins. They have since upped the timer on buffs, but if you got caught at the wrong time, with the wrong vuln on you, and your buffs started to wear off, night night. It kept you on your toes. You always had to keep your eyes open. The gear you had on had no bearing on you PvE or PvP. Pure player skill.
No instanced dungeons, no instanced anything. -- While some would think this was a shitty way of life, i thought it was great. I didnt really understand how great until i started playing games where almost nothing isnt instanced(see Guild Wars). You had your spots to hunt. Sometimes it was all yours, sometimes it wasnt. Sometimes no one else even knew about your spot. But it was get there first or move somewhere else. If you never experienced a pack or 30+ nublets all bunched together waited for the next luggy spawn because you knew it would be war, then you missed some fun fun stuff. Plus multiple ppl always died just about every spawn so the comedy factor was second to none.
Now this next feature in my opinion is the one thing AC did that no one else wants to touch, and its why the combat and PvP are still unmatched by any game.
Avoidable Projectiles. -- Its what made AC so different from all these other mmos we get now. Its why armor really didnt mean squat. Most importantly, NO I WIN BUTTONS. If it could be thrown it could be avoided, from arrows to lightning bolts to rocks mobs throw. Staying on your toes and moving was way of life in AC for this reason, especially PvP. Oh and 1 2 and 3 shot kills. Get caught slippin and it was dirt naps. It just made the char more you. It allowed ppl to be recognized by skill, not gear. And the ppl who were good at PvP, were damn good. Lvl 80's could run toe to toe with lvl 150's, if you were good enough. Its this very thing that no one used in these new mmos, and while until someone does i wont find what im looking for. I just cant do the click on you and push this button kill stuff anymore.
My plea is just this. Someone give me back my avoidables. I would play an AC remake without a doubt but thats not what im asking for. I do enjoy newer mmo's but its a 1-2 week kind of enjoyment. Everyone claims their game is revolutionary and different but they all go with this gameplay. I just like the sense of accomplishment that YOU killed that mob, or that person. Not that sense that your TOON killed that person. Im just this tired of button mashing. I mean ive got a 70 shaman on WoW, whats more button mashing then that?
Can someone make a game where your hand isnt held, were lvl and gear dont have more bearing on the outcome then if you are good enough or not.
 
 

your plea has fallen on deaf ears

popinjay

I feel your pain,

But Id just settle for someone actually making a MMO ON Time, optimized and promising what they said itll do. Dont have to give me expansions off the bat. Just make the game solid to begin with, with decent (not exceptional) questing  and accurate mob pathing, skills that work as intended and neither an artificially high set level so you have to grind needlessly (any asian grinder) or a level set so low, that you reach level cap max in one month and are twiddling thumbs while devs try and think up how to make new dungeons and high end content that works properly (hello? Lotro, are you listening?)

As many games that have been released since the original EQ, why is it so hard to copy and bite the successful things games have done, and put it into one game? If a game has a great questing tree, use it. If a game has fantastic pvp, take it. If it has incredible graphics engine, steal it. Acknowledge where you got it, but bite the hell out of them and use it.

Devs, try to pretend you are car designers for a brand new Japanese car company and the first Ford was just delivered secretly into the R&D department in Japan. Just take that puppy and reverse engineer the hell out of it and make something that beats the world.

 

You can do it! If you cant, the world will slowly turn into asian grinder games with all cash shops. *sniif*

 

Aelfinn

AoC, that simple.

 

The game is almost literally based on most of the points you raised, including being able to actively avoid projectiles. The only thing that really jars is the fact that it's GvG, not RvR.

rikilii

Wow, that's one hell of a wall of text to get to the point that you want "avoidable projectiles".

But I agree.  I wish more MMOs would break the "select target/mash buttons" approach to combat.

 

IMHO, MMOs should be moving toward FPS style ranged combat with more of a "Mortal Combat" sort of approach to melee.  As far as I know, AoC is at least attempting this sort of thing.

Hvymetal

FYI, DDO is based upon the AC engine as far as I can tell, spells, missiles & melee attacks are all avoidable and dodgeable. But sorry it's 100% instances, personally I prefer it to uninstanced areas of 100 people all minding their own buisness and basically soloing in the same area....