These kind of posts have to be my favorite kind there are on this website. You can go into any other games forums and see a ton of posts just like this one. Sometimes I think thats all this website is good for, but it's not the websites fault its the need of people to bash something and feel good about themselves. Well kudos to you, you don't like ffxi go join all the others that have played and quit i'll still keep playing until I find something else but isnt that how most MMOs are I mean jeez I'm not playing EQ anymore but it was a fun game it was just time to move on when i did.
These kind of posts have to be my favorite kind there are on this website. You can go into any other games forums and see a ton of posts just like this one. Sometimes I think thats all this website is good for, but it's not the websites fault its the need of people to bash something and feel good about themselves. Well kudos to you, you don't like ffxi go join all the others that have played and quit i'll still keep playing until I find something else but isnt that how most MMOs are I mean jeez I'm not playing EQ anymore but it was a fun game it was just time to move on when i did.
Sadder still, there are people like that even off these forums. Someone I used to know a couple years back had played FFXI and loved it. Put who knows how many hours into it and never had a bad thing to say. He stopped playing not because he stopped enjoying it, but because he had to take a break from it for a while and found that in his time away he'd "fallen behind" his friends and wouldn't be able to catch up (in my opinion, he completely missed the point of playing this or any game in the first place - but that's neither here nor there).
In any case, once he stopped playing and went on to another MMO (one we all know of; the 300 lb. gorilla in the genre) he immediately took a completely anti-FFXI stance. He would make fun of anyone who played it, would make fun of the game incessantly and, like the OP, used his "experience" in the game as proof that he was "right". He'd even suggest customers *not* buy it but buy another one instead.
That was pretty much his stance.
Of course he wasn't "right" and, knowing what his real reason was for stopping, I didn't hesitate a moment to call him out on it - in front of those same customers when I was there. He eventually stopped doing it - at least when I was there heheh.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
seriously i dont know what your talking about getting booted for immediatly if you dont certain gear. 95% of people on every server dont have OMGWTG gear. Have you ever thought it might be just you? Unless your a PuP there really isn't a reason to kick someone based on certain gear they're wearing. Every job can perform well even with minimal gear. Sometimes when I level my lower jobs i dont even buy equipment for certain slots unless it has beneficial stats. Even then I dont always "pimp out" my lower jobs. So have you ever thought that maybe you have a made a bad name for yourself and people just dont want to invite you? Or how about trying to ask why you were abruptly kicked from a party for "not wearing a SH".
As for the crafting comments, this game is a high risk higher reward game. Even if you are very smart and have high crafting skills you can still mess up (the risk). Now look at every crafter on your server who has 90-100 skill in a single craft, these people have A Lot of gil. And you can understand that although they fail sometimes they generally and for the most part profit. Crafting is also a severe grind and strain on the pocket because of the same issues and the very nice result when a player finally is able to craft consistant HQ gear.
Seriously, why do we care if you dont want to play our game anymore? Do you honestly need to tell us? You mention how SE fails to conform to what players want, so why then do we still have a 200-300k member base after so long?
Congratulations on going to WoW, I hope the enjoyment and fun lasts. But from my personal experiences, I hope you haven't gave away all your gil/armor.
Aye it does encourage it , but there is a problem there. As you get higher, the older players start acting like morons because the expect you to have a certain piece of gear or somethin and if you dont then they drop you. I ran into this alot when i was lvling dragoon. <This was before and after the big changes that made it accetable to be one>. If you didnt have a scorpion harness you would get kicked from parties no matter the fact that you were outdamaging others in the party or if your skillchain with another member would rock a mob. Even I got pissed at older palyers i had played with for a while becasue the way they treated new players. Theyve all forgotten what it was like to be struggling to figure out what your supposed to be doing or where your going. The community has grown arrogant. I defended this game the whole time i played it, loved the party system but now im done, i cant stand the bs that squenix has made of this game its so lame. From the lame attempts to stop gold sellers to the fake pokemon-esq new content.
Yep that is sad hakken,but you are correct,the community isn't near as good as when the game first came out.
SQUARE made a huge mistake in making there drop loot/gil drop to kill ratio so bad it's not funny.There is no way without wasting tons of hours farming [nowadays]to get anywhere in the game.At one time when the game was heavily populated with new players everyday,the economy flourished,but with a stagnant population,the chance of a new player making any gil with his 5-15 gil drop a kill is ridiculous.
To give square the benefit of the doubt i guess they never figured on RMT activity that drives any economy outa whack.New players trying to sell low level items have no one to sell to,and once they get mid levels the demand for gil is extremely heavy.There is nothing in the game that would allow a new player the ease of playing everyday without farming for pocket change.
Even if an experienced player tries to guide a noob into the harsh economy of FFXI,they tend to never listen or figure on it not being THAT bad!.Most .i should say pretty much all games can sustain themselves because the drop rates are decent enough to sell to NPC's and allow any new player to survive decently as he levels.As time went along the RMT got even smarter and have invaded crafting and crafting items,so now they control the market on boss drops and crafting.The ones that are not RMT use cheats such as bots/ POS and timers that let them know when each NM will pop.Even so wasting many hours a day not playing the game so you can afford to play the game is dumb.
All of this remains a mystery to any new player as they level along thinking everything is fine.Once they start to really dwelve into the game economy and learn more about the game ,it becomes foul in there mouth,and shows the true mistakes square made.I know i have seen square admit to making several mistakes,so i will be looking forward to there next gen game,wich i am sure will be a much better product.Funny saying this too,because FFXI is already the best product out there,sad they made a few glaring errors and that the game was limited by the PS2 system.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
After WoW came out, it had a pretty substantial effect on other MMOs' populations. FFXI's population stayed pretty stable. Many, many people I know who went to WoW thinking it was "the greener grass", came back before long. In all, FFXI's population has stayed between 500-600k throughout it's existence - including around the time of WoW's launch.
Are you smoking crack rock?
No way in hell FF has 5-600k playing your on drugs. #2 game next to WoW is EQ2 or LotRO it is still up in the air on which is actually higher.... EQ2 has less than 200k and so does LotRO.... so to say FF has 3 times the #2 game next to wow is retarded.
Do not make ridiculous statements.... I don't care HOW much you love FF.
*EDIT* I will also add this, I played FF 2 years, WoW 3 Years, EQ2 1 year and LotR about a month.
WoW is ok at first then begins to blow at 70. WAYYYY to guild raid centered, and boring when you realize its ALL a huge grind for some armor that will be garbage as soon as the next expansion hits.
FF is ok at first then blows when you realize you can never afford anything on the auction house without giving some chinese guy $20 bucks so you can afford your scorpion harness to actually get into a group without being booted out. I pretty much agree with most of the OPs concerns on FF. Way to group centered. I understand that is a focus of the game.... but hell you can't do ANYTHING solo unless you play the solo classes like BST. What if someone doesnt want to play a BST and despises BST... he is pretty much assed out. Grouping is fine, but people should have some kind of choice. FF offers little to no choices.
Its play this class with this sub and heaven forbid if it isn't EXACTLY half of what your main job is... have EXACTLY the gear the group THINKS you should have on or get lost. Kinda lame.....
I agree FF is not for PvP never was intended to be, if you want PvP you shouldn't be in FF. Its for the RP people who like story and immersion. Both good things.
EQ2 is ok not great, just wasn't for me.
LotRO also ok not great, made for Tolkien fans and thats about it.
I have played all these games, and currently play none of them.
But I played them enough to know the pops of them all... and WoW is king of Pop kinda like michael jackson back in the day.
Next EQ2 and LotRO would follow it up as back up dancers.
FF fans are out in front of the stage dancing to the king of pop.
After WoW came out, it had a pretty substantial effect on other MMOs' populations. FFXI's population stayed pretty stable. Many, many people I know who went to WoW thinking it was "the greener grass", came back before long. In all, FFXI's population has stayed between 500-600k throughout it's existence - including around the time of WoW's launch.
Are you smoking crack rock?
No way in hell FF has 5-600k playing your on drugs. #2 game next to WoW is EQ2 or LotRO it is still up in the air on which is actually higher.... EQ2 has less than 200k and so does LotRO.... so to say FF has 3 times the #2 game next to wow is retarded.
Do not make ridiculous statements.... I don't care HOW much you love FF.
How amusing that you would make a post about numbers based on your instincts rather than research. You have no idea what you are talking about. FFXI does indeed have over 500K subs, but you should note that this is worldwide, not just North America. Those other games have tiny player bases outside the US, whereas FFXI is huge in Asia.
I apologize for copy-pasting a previous reply from a similar thread:
According to the last estimate on MMOGData, FFXI has half a million players. Although I feel the number is slightly lower nowadays, FFXI should still have more players world-wide than EQ2, EVE, or LotRO.
I have characters in several WoW servers (RP and PvP) and two FFXI worlds. A quick check showed that the FFXI worlds I'm in all had more logged-in players than the three WoW servers that I frequent. However, this can just be due to WoW keeping their servers regional.
After WoW came out, it had a pretty substantial effect on other MMOs' populations. FFXI's population stayed pretty stable. Many, many people I know who went to WoW thinking it was "the greener grass", came back before long. In all, FFXI's population has stayed between 500-600k throughout it's existence - including around the time of WoW's launch.
Are you smoking crack rock?
No way in hell FF has 5-600k playing your on drugs. #2 game next to WoW is EQ2 or LotRO it is still up in the air on which is actually higher.... EQ2 has less than 200k and so does LotRO.... so to say FF has 3 times the #2 game next to wow is retarded.
Do not make ridiculous statements.... I don't care HOW much you love FF.
*EDIT* I will also add this, I played FF 2 years, WoW 3 Years, EQ2 1 year and LotR about a month.
WoW is ok at first then begins to blow at 70. WAYYYY to guild raid centered, and boring when you realize its ALL a huge grind for some armor that will be garbage as soon as the next expansion hits.
FF is ok at first then blows when you realize you can never afford anything on the auction house without giving some chinese guy $20 bucks so you can afford your scorpion harness to actually get into a group without being booted out. I pretty much agree with most of the OPs concerns on FF. Way to group centered. I understand that is a focus of the game.... but hell you can't do ANYTHING solo unless you play the solo classes like BST. What if someone doesnt want to play a BST and despises BST... he is pretty much assed out. Grouping is fine, but people should have some kind of choice. FF offers little to no choices.
Ninja, Black Mage, Blue Mage are some of the classes other than beastmaster that can solo consistently. Dragoon also/ Gil although tough can be acquired if you have consistency. There are ways to make Gil but it needs at least a bit research and not just mindless gridding.
Its play this class with this sub and heaven forbid if it isn't EXACTLY half of what your main job is... have EXACTLY the gear the group THINKS you should have on or get lost. Kinda lame.....
Although true for some cases really it's not always the case. Some jobs in FF are very rigid and only work with specific combos in a pt situation. Others are flexible but need a lot of tweaking.
Very few groups actually make you sub specific things unless it's something non-party useful.
For example red mage *can* sub ninja and be useful, but that doesn't mean that it's the best choice in a part situation. FF is all about adapting to situations that arise during many different things.
As for the equipment thing. The only thing that i have seen people complain are about a couple of items and usually those are for the damage dealers which makes sense though since seeing a damage dealer hitting air in a pt situation is no fun for anyone.
I agree FF is not for PvP never was intended to be, if you want PvP you shouldn't be in FF. Its for the RP people who like story and immersion. Both good things.
EQ2 is ok not great, just wasn't for me.
LotRO also ok not great, made for Tolkien fans and thats about it.
I have played all these games, and currently play none of them.
But I played them enough to know the pops of them all... and WoW is king of Pop kinda like michael jackson back in the day.
Next EQ2 and LotRO would follow it up as back up dancers.
FF fans are out in front of the stage dancing to the king of pop.
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
I am fully aware that FF is bigger in asia than in NA. (which for NA players blows to). I don't care what you say tho, you will never convince me that FF has over 500k players. Despite what wiki news reel you try and throw at me. Also you just did the same thing, that you just said I shouldn't do. Where you play WoW and compare it to your FF server.
WoW has like 80! servers, all at or about max capacity why do you think they had to make 80 of them.
Does FF have 80 servers? Ummm not even close...
Save it, FF is an ok game, but 500k ok.... I don't think so.
Sniper I get what your saying I really do, but it is a proven fact that not all FF servers and the players on them are the same. Asura which is the server I am from is HORRIBLE.
It is horrible player base wise, it is horrible elitist wise and it is horrible economy wise.
When I played I had a Taru BM and a Elvaan Ninja.
It is ALWAYS the case that you must have what they want you have or your not playing.
Both my brothers still play FF, in the AMICITIA LS and I cannot even begin to think of joining this LS unless I have everything needed gear wise and skill wise to play for them.
You have any idea what some of the ninja crap cost on Asura???
I couldn't afford a Haubergeon because it was over 2 MILLION gil... get tha hell outta here.
I was forced to quit the game because I couldn't afford to gear the characters.....
I am fully aware that FF is bigger in asia than in NA. (which for NA players blows to). I don't care what you say tho, you will never convince me that FF has over 500k players. Despite what wiki news reel you try and throw at me. Also you just did the same thing, that you just said I shouldn't do. Where you play WoW and compare it to your FF server. WoW has like 80! servers, all at or about max capacity why do you think they had to make 80 of them. Does FF have 80 servers? Ummm not even close... Save it, FF is an ok game, but 500k ok.... I don't think so.
Sniper I get what your saying I really do, but it is a proven fact that not all FF servers and the players on them are the same. Asura which is the server I am from is HORRIBLE. It is horrible player base wise, it is horrible elitist wise and it is horrible economy wise. When I played I had a Taru BM and a Elvaan Ninja. It is ALWAYS the case that you must have what they want you have or your not playing. Both my brothers still play FF, in the AMICITIA LS and I cannot even begin to think of joining this LS unless I have everything needed gear wise and skill wise to play for them. You have any idea what some of the ninja crap cost on Asura??? I couldn't afford a Haubergeon because it was over 2 MILLION gil... get tha hell outta here. I was forced to quit the game because I couldn't afford to gear the characters.....
So yeah that's how it is.
You're never forced to quit, you adapt and just make your own parties. Most people don't care what you have on, they just care you're inviting them. Especially, when its a less than desired job. I've saved up money for gear before. I've been through it all, not having any gil and needing better gear. Those people that might boot you, you just don't party with them anymore. Like I said, you make your own party, you'd be better off. You just have to be smart about making gil, it's really not all that difficult. You don't have to be some max level crafter or anything. Just have to spend some time and invest a few gil really.
I've been playing this game from the start of NAPC. Haven't touched endgame as I don't really see a need for it besides any background story. I just do other stuff. I still haven't been through all of the story yet either. This game is far from dying.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best. FFXI Character: Satimasu FFXI Server: Valefor FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
I am fully aware that FF is bigger in asia than in NA. (which for NA players blows to). I don't care what you say tho, you will never convince me that FF has over 500k players. Despite what wiki news reel you try and throw at me. Also you just did the same thing, that you just said I shouldn't do. Where you play WoW and compare it to your FF server. WoW has like 80! servers, all at or about max capacity why do you think they had to make 80 of them. Does FF have 80 servers? Ummm not even close... Save it, FF is an ok game, but 500k ok.... I don't think so.
There will be no convincing because I have to agree with most of what you have said.
I do not think that FFXI has more than half a million subscribers right now. With around 185,000 EQ2 subscribers total, there will not be three times as many FFXI players as there are EQ2 players - worldwide or specifically in North America.
From what I remember reading: WoW has around 224 North American servers (probably a total of over 800 realms worldwide), FFXI has 32 international servers, EQ2 has 25 servers, and LotRO has 11 North American servers (11 more in Europe). Indeed, FFXI does not have nearly as many servers as WoW.
I like the analogy that compared to the king-of-pop WoW, EQ2 and LotRO are like back-up dancers in the North American stage! However, I don't think that FFXI caters to a preference similar to the other three. I would see it as FFXI standing in a smaller side-panel playing some other type of music - elevator?
As I was not the one who said that you should not compare FFXI to WoW, I did include a quick comparison between FFXI worlds and WoW servers in my copy-pasted reply from another "Is FFXI dying?" thread which shares similar subjects with this one. Although total subscriber count is a good way to measure a game's business success, I find "active player count per server" to be a better measure of its livelihood - players won't have much in-game interaction with the other millions in community who aren't playing in the same server. Seeing higher numbers of players logged in per server, I don't think that FFXI is in a dying state.
It is possible for FFXI to have slightly more players than EQ2 or LotRO in North America - I put FFXI at 180,000 to 200,000 players, EQ2 at 185,000 (by MMOGdata) but including Station Access members, and LotRO at 140,000 to 180,000 players. Nonetheless, as long as your brothers continue to enjoy elevator music, FFXI will have a chance to live on!
I never said FF will die. I would 100% agree that FF has more like 200-250k players. I wouldnt even attempt to deny that as fact. but 5-600k, noone should be that naive.
FF has a HUGE following in Japan as well as NA. My 2 brothers are DIEHARD FF fans and would never quit FF unless they closed all the servers completely. I also LOVE FF and all of its games... except FF Online.
I have them all Ive beat them all, Square Enix IMO is the BEST maker and producer of RPG's in the world.
I also know that FF is for niche group centric players, I would be fine with this if I could justify the money I am spending to play.
I quit a long time ago, before the corsair and blue mages.
I was paying a fee of 14.99 to sit and wait for hours on end to be invited to a party as a BM. To me the time I spent wasted doing nothing could not justify the cost of the fee. That is only 1 part of why I no longer play as stated there was the gil and armor issues.
FFOnline players can come in here and take up for "themselves" each as individuals, but they are just 1 player of 250 thousand players spread across all servers. Just because they seemed to excel does not mean most players can. Gil is NOT as easy to make as some would think. It isn't like I did not try to make the gil for the armor. It took me 3 weeks of AH selling to make enough money for a scorpion harness which at the time I played was between 2-3 million gil. 3 weeks.... that is along time. I basically spent 14.99 that month to play the AH in hope I could afford 1 piece of armor. That is 1 piece of the 5 or 6 I would need to be considered "good" enough to party with.
In the 2 years I played, NOT 1 TIME... not 1 did I join a party that they did not expect you to be equipped or skill/ subbed a certain way. I even tried the "start my own party thing" and as soon as the people would join if 1 person out of party wasn't what the others thought should be ideal the group would split and members would leave. This game is basically for the hardcore FF fan and elitist player. It caters NONE what so ever to the casual, I cant spend half my life farming gil or playing the stock market to fit in player.
I am 30 years old with 3 kids, my brothers in thier 20's with no kids, they excel because they have the time to waste their life to excel. They have tried to catch me up to them but even with their combined power can never seem to get me where I need to be for the other elitist players of asura to accept me.
So I am currently without a game until a more casual friendly game comes along that is worth a crap.
I play DAoC now but that is because I have played DAoC for 7 years, I had 50's back before my kids. I can play that game without the help of others.
So anyway, I wasn't trying to piss anyone off, just accept the fact that FF isn't for everyone, and FF caters only to a very specific type of player. Which would be the minority of players as WoW clearly shows which type is the more dominant with it's 9 million players vs FF's 250k.
I never said FF will die. I would 100% agree that FF has more like 200-250k players. I wouldnt even attempt to deny that as fact. but 5-600k, noone should be that naive.
No one should be that naive? Why? Because you come in here with all your personal, unsupported opinions and say so? Perhaps you shouldn't be so willfully ignorant and accept that you're just wrong?
If you search enough, you'll find similar going back some years. The numbers have always been around the same. You can choose not to believe it. You call us naive all you want. If you don't want to believe it's doing that well, then that's your right. But I'm going to go with numbers given in black and white, year after year, alot more than some random person on a forum trying to force their opinion on everyone. I know it'll be hard for you to swallow but hard numbers > opinion or "gut instinct". FFOnline players can come in here and take up for "themselves" each as individuals, but they are just 1 player of 500+ thousand players spread across all servers (there I fixed that for you). Just because they seemed to excel does not mean most players can (well with that kind of defeatist attitude, no wonder you didn't do well in it). Gil is NOT as easy to make as some would think. Sure it is, there are many ways to do it - just gotta actually use your head to find them, instead of complaining about it on forums.
It isn't like I did not try to make the gil for the armor. It took me 3 weeks of AH selling to make enough money for a scorpion harness which at the time I played was between 2-3 million gil Scorpion Harness is down to around 200-300k on Pandemonium, and has come way down on all servers. Even the +1 version is under 1 mil now. All prices have come wayyyy down as SE has been seriously fighting RMT for some months now. You obviously didn't actually do any research to find that out for yourself before posting your tirades here. If you don't believe me, check ffxiah.com, and search to your heart's content. The data there is pretty close to real-time. If you don't believe it then, I'll happily take a screenshot to help alleviate your ignora.. err.. doubt.
If you relied solely on 1 tactic to make money then of course it's going to take longer - that's your fault, not the game's.
3 weeks.... that is along time. I basically spent 14.99 that month to play the AH in hope I could afford 1 piece of armor. Your fault - there's other things you could have been doing with that time - such as using your head and finding additional means to make money. That is 1 piece of the 5 or 6 I would need to be considered "good" enough to party with.
I'm a DRG - for a long time one of the least popular jobs. I don't have a Scorpion Harness. I've never had a Scorpion Harness. I get invites all the time and I'm not kicked from parties for it. I'll go one further, I've never owned a Ochiudo's Kote, I've never owned an Emperor Hairpin or a Peacock Charm or any of those "must have" items that so many feel are mandatory. I've always gotten parties. I got two invites yesterday and I wasn't even seeking. But then again, I don't share your defeatist attitude.
In the 2 years I played, NOT 1 TIME... not 1 did I join a party that they did not expect you to be equipped or skill/ subbed a certain way. I call BS on that. I've commented on how rigid people can be with party setups, but even I've found myself in a good share of "non-standard" setups within 2 years time
. I even tried the "start my own party thing" and as soon as the people would join if 1 person out of party wasn't what the others thought should be ideal the group would split and members would leave. This game is basically for the hardcore FF fan and elitist player.
There are elitist players and I've griped about them, too. But the game doesn't cater to them. People are elitist by a flaw in their nature; they'd be elitist no matter what game they were playing (I know at least one guy personally who demonstrates this to a T - he's a self-described "god" in any game he plays). A game doesn't make them that way.
It caters NONE what so ever to the casual, I cant spend half my life farming gil or playing the stock market to fit in player. FFXI isn't a casual game, has never been a casual game and likely never will be a casual game. That said, I don't have half my life to spend on farming gil... nor do I. And I'm doing fine - along with many many others. I haven't done a thing to make money in the last, oh... 3 weeks, and I'm doing just fine. Mind you, I seldom have much over 100k gil on me. So don't think I must be rolling in money. I am 30 years old with 3 kids, my brothers in thier 20's with no kids, they excel because they have the time to waste their life to excel. They have tried to catch me up to them but even with their combined power can never seem to get me where I need to be for the other elitist players of asura to accept me. So FFXI isn't suited to you and it is to them. Nothing is for everyone. Welcome to the real world. And "they excel because they have the time to waste their life..." Wow... Wasting their life? That's an awfully bitter thing to say about your own children/family. A bit "sour-grapes", to be honest.
So I am currently without a game until a more casual friendly game comes along that is worth a crap. I dunno what you're looking for - a MMO where you can succeed on 2 hours a day maybe? Don't know if such a thing exists. You can succeed in many games on 2 hours a day - if you set your expectations realistically. You won't play casually while progressing at the rate of a non-casual player in any game. It just ain't gonna happen. I play DAoC now but that is because I have played DAoC for 7 years, I had 50's back before my kids. I can play that game without the help of others. LOL. Wow. First you're talking about them "wasting their life" to be able to do better than you in FFXI, now you're gloating that you've had 50's before your kids did. Apparently they're "elitist players" too, since according to you that's what FFXI is for. Are you this bitterly competitive with your own children in everything? So anyway, I wasn't trying to piss anyone off, just accept the fact that FF isn't for everyone, and FF caters only to a very specific type of player. Which would be the minority of players as WoW clearly shows which type is the more dominant with it's 9 million players vs FF's 500k+ (fixed that for you again) And it also shows that despite WoW's run-away success as a simplified MMO with training wheels, SE has stayed the course with what they envision FFXI to be and has continued to succeed regardless. 500k+ players is nothing to scoff at. WoW's success is more an anomaly; certainly not a "standard". Oh and to call WoW a "casual-friendly" game is a misnomer... even if you can get through the game faster, people still spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing it... just like they do in FFXI.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I am fully aware that FF is bigger in asia than in NA. (which for NA players blows to). I don't care what you say tho, you will never convince me that FF has over 500k players. Despite what wiki news reel you try and throw at me. Also you just did the same thing, that you just said I shouldn't do. Where you play WoW and compare it to your FF server. WoW has like 80! servers, all at or about max capacity why do you think they had to make 80 of them. Does FF have 80 servers? Ummm not even close... Save it, FF is an ok game, but 500k ok.... I don't think so.
It's on the official site. I don't care if you believe it.
Also, WoW has over 220 servers in the US alone, which I only mention because it shows how little you know about the subject of games and their populations.
But there is not an exact correlation between server numbers and overall populations. Because games are designed so differently, a full server on one game could hold far more (or fewer) players than a full server on another game.
I never said FF will die. I would 100% agree that FF has more like 200-250k players. I wouldnt even attempt to deny that as fact. but 5-600k, noone should be that naive.
No one should be that naive? Why? Because you come in here with all your personal, unsupported opinions and say so? Perhaps you shouldn't be so willfully ignorant and accept that you're just wrong?
If you search enough, you'll find similar going back some years. The numbers have always been around the same. You can choose not to believe it. You call us naive all you want. If you don't want to believe it's doing that well, then that's your right. But I'm going to go with numbers given in black and white, year after year, alot more than some random person on a forum trying to force their opinion on everyone. I know it'll be hard for you to swallow but hard numbers > opinion or "gut instinct". You tell me right now that you know EXACTLY how many players FF has subbed right now.... you can't. because they do not tell the public that info, NO MMO company does. So stfu cause you don't know anything, hell we JUST had a FF player post saying subs are more than likely NOT at 500k more like 200k which ill agree with. FFOnline players can come in here and take up for "themselves" each as individuals, but they are just 1 player of 500+ thousand players spread across all servers (there I fixed that for you). Just because they seemed to excel does not mean most players can (well with that kind of defeatist attitude, no wonder you didn't do well in it). Gil is NOT as easy to make as some would think. Sure it is, there are many ways to do it - just gotta actually use your head to find them, instead of complaining about it on forums. Your quick to call someone stupid under the mask of "use your head". Listen dumbass ANYONE who plays knows that if your only playing CASUAL your not coming up with millions of gil in any reasonable amount of time. If your gonna sit here and try to say otherwise, I will say you do not play FFonline and never have.
It isn't like I did not try to make the gil for the armor. It took me 3 weeks of AH selling to make enough money for a scorpion harness which at the time I played was between 2-3 million gil Scorpion Harness is down to around 200-300k on Pandemonium, and is so on all servers. All prices have come wayyyy down as SE has been seriously fighting RMT for some months now. You obviously didn't actually do any research to find that out for yourself before posting this. If you relied solely on 1 tactic to make money then of course it's going to take a while - that's your fault, not the game's). If you don't believe me, check ffxiah.com, and search to your heart's content. The data there is pretty close to real-time. As I quit FF long ago, I don't care if a scorpion harness is now at 300k or not when I played it was 3 million. You try to sit her and say these armors have never hit the 3 million mark, I will also say you have never played the game, cause you would be a liar.
3 weeks.... that is along time. I basically spent 14.99 that month to play the AH in hope I could afford 1 piece of armor. Your fault - there's other things you could have been doing with that time - such as using your head and finding additional means to make money. I pay money to PLAY a game. not sit on a dock with a fishing pole in my hand waiting 3 hours with my flag up for someone to invite me to a group. As I have explain to my brother MANY times, I only HAVE 3 hours a night I might could play. If i'm spending ALL of it waiting... why pay to play the game. That is 1 piece of the 5 or 6 I would need to be considered "good" enough to party with.
I'm a DRG - for a long time one of the least popular jobs. I don't have a Scorpion Harness. I've never had a Scorpion Harness. I get invites all the time and I'm not kicked from parties for it. I'll go one further, I've never owned a Ochiudo's Kote, I've never owned an Emperor Hairpin or a Peacock Charm or any of those "must have" items that so many feel are mandatory. I've always gotten parties. I got two invites yesterday and I wasn't even seeking. But then again, I don't share your defeatist attitude. You assume to much, You don't play where I played, your community is not the same as mine, so unless you spent the last 2 years on Asura, stfu cause you have no clue what you are talking about.
In the 2 years I played, NOT 1 TIME... not 1 did I join a party that they did not expect you to be equipped or skill/ subbed a certain way. I call BS on that. I've commented on how rigid people can be with party setups, but even I've found myself in a good share of "non-standard" setups within 2 years time Call it what you want, but it is the truth, calling people a liar with no proof of what your saying is ridiculous.
. I even tried the "start my own party thing" and as soon as the people would join if 1 person out of party wasn't what the others thought should be ideal the group would split and members would leave. This game is basically for the hardcore FF fan and elitist player.
There are elitist players and I've griped about them, too. But the game doesn't cater to them. People are elitist by a flaw in their nature; they'd be elitist no matter what game they were playing (I know at least one guy personally who demonstrates this to a T - he's a self-described "god" in any game he plays). A game doesn't make them that way. Yes.... It.... Does.....
It caters NONE what so ever to the casual, I cant spend half my life farming gil or playing the stock market to fit in player. FFXI isn't a casual game, has never been a casual game and likely never will be a casual game. That said, I don't have half my life to spend on farming gil... nor do I. And I'm doing fine - along with many many others. I haven't done a thing to make money in the last, oh... 3 weeks, and I'm doing just fine. Mind you, I seldom have much over 100k gil on me. So don't think I must be rolling in money. I am 30 years old with 3 kids, my brothers in thier 20's with no kids, they excel because they have the time to waste their life to excel. They have tried to catch me up to them but even with their combined power can never seem to get me where I need to be for the other elitist players of asura to accept me. So FFXI isn't suited to you and it is to them. Nothing is for everyone. Welcome to the real world. And "they excel because they have the time to waste their life..." Wow... Wasting their life? That's an awfully bitter thing to say about your own children/family. A bit "sour-grapes", to be honest. My brothers will both admit they have no life. If you play a game longer than you work in a week.... you have no life. Fresh air, a girlfriend, a movie from time to time NOT on youtube might do you some good. I could care less how long they play as they are not me, but wasting life is exactly what they do, I can even have one login to MMORPG and tell you himself he has NO LIFE.
So I am currently without a game until a more casual friendly game comes along that is worth a crap. I dunno what you're looking for - a MMO where you can succeed on 2 hours a day maybe? Don't know if such a thing exists. You can succeed in many games on 2 hours a day - if you set your expectations realistically. You won't play casually while progressing at the rate of a non-casual player in any game. It just ain't gonna happen. Did not say I would. What I said was FF is not for casual players of any kind, at least a casual player who likes to set goals that do not takes years to accomplish. I play DAoC now but that is because I have played DAoC for 7 years, I had 50's back before my kids. I can play that game without the help of others. LOL. Wow. First you're talking about them "wasting their life" to be able to do better than you in FFXI, now you're gloating that you've had 50's before your kids did. Are you this bitterly competitive with your own children in everything? You really need to learn to read. I said I had 50's before I HAD KIDS. As in before my kids ( were born). My kids are all to young to play games. Just learn to read before looking like an ass. So anyway, I wasn't trying to piss anyone off, just accept the fact that FF isn't for everyone, and FF caters only to a very specific type of player. Which would be the minority of players as WoW clearly shows which type is the more dominant with it's 9 million players vs FF's 500k+ (fixed that for you again) And it also shows that despite WoW's run-away success as a simplified MMO with training wheels, SE has stayed the course with what they envision FFXI to be and has continued to succeed regardless. 500k+ players is nothing to scoff at. WoW's success is more an anomaly; certainly not a "standard". Oh and to call WoW a "casual-friendly" game is a misnomer... even if you can get through the game faster, people still spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing it... just like they do in FFXI. I do have 70's in wow, several of them . It is a casual game, just a very crappy one. You obviously have problems with WoW, that is your problem, I don't defend or praise wow, but it is a fact WoW craps all over ANY game yes even your precious FF in subs... Like takes a HUGE dump on it. Even if FF had 500k players (which it doesn't) still 500k to 9 million you do the math since your so good at using your head, and even better at reading comprehension.
Matter of fact dude your just all the way around an idiot, I'm not even going to sit here and play stupid troll games with you. FF is a ok game for the players it is pitched to. FF has it's place in the MMO community. FF is not in any danger of dying tho your 500k players is way off base if you want to admit it or not. FF is not for everyone. FF wasn't for me. Now go play stupid troll games with someone else.
I'm playing stupid troll games? LMAO
That's rich.
Everything I post is based on current and/or verifiable information. I've been playing the game since NA PC launch, I've seen it at its worst and I've seen it at its best. I personally know people who have 2-3 hours, maybe a few nights a week, to play and do just fine. I know people who have many hours a week to play and aren't doing as well as those without.
The game has 500k+ players. You and Mr. "I'm bitter because I suck at FFXI and my kids are better than me" up there can come up with arbitrary unsupported numbers all you want. Again, hard numbers, consistent from one year to the next, are a lot more dependable than what someone "thinks" they are.
Oh and calling people a "troll" or a "dumbass" or whatever other names you and your buddy want to throw at me doesnt' make you seem more right. Does make you seem a tad defensive, though.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Matter of fact dude your just all the way around an idiot, I'm not even going to sit here and play stupid troll games with you. FF is a ok game for the players it is pitched to. FF has it's place in the MMO community. FF is not in any danger of dying tho your 500k players is way off base if you want to admit it or not. FF is not for everyone. FF wasn't for me. Now go play stupid troll games with someone else.
I'm playing stupid troll games? LMAO
That's rich.
Everything I post is based on current and/or verifiable information. I've been playing the game since NA PC launch, I've seen it at its worst and I've seen it at its best. I personally know people who have 2-3 hours, maybe a few nights a week, to play and do just fine. I know people who have many hours a week to play and aren't doing as well as those without.
The game has 500k+ players. You and Mr. "I'm bitter because I suck at FFXI and my kids are better than me" up there can come up with arbitrary unsupported numbers all you want. Again, hard numbers, consistent from one year to the next, are a lot more dependable than what someone "thinks" they are.
Oh and calling people a "troll" or a "dumbass" or whatever other names you and your buddy want to throw at me doesnt' make you seem more right. Does make you seem a tad defensive, though.
Hmmm, I am new to MMORPG and wanted to start playing FFXI.
After reading all this which has gotten off topic by a huge margin.
WSIMike your kinda coming off as a know-it-all type.
The guy is not being defensive your very rude comments are making them act that way.
Ever take into consideration that you may not know as much as you think you do. That would be a notion huh?
If this is the caliber of players I would be looking foward to in playing FFXI. I think I will pass. Thanks WSIMike for being a completely rude know-it-all.
You tell me right now that you know EXACTLY how many players FF has subbed right now.... you can't. because they do not tell the public that info, NO MMO company does. So stfu cause you don't know anything, hell we JUST had a FF player post saying subs are more than likely NOT at 500k more like 200k which ill agree with. I don't know how many are playing right now. Neither do you. Has that stopped *you* from making *your* assertions? Nope. Don't be a hypocrite, bub.
Only difference is, I'm getting my numbers directly from a verifiable and reliable source. You're pulling yours out of.. well.. somewhere... and citing someone else on the same forum who just happens to agree with you. Go figure.
If you believe that a game that has had consistently over 500k players for years running has suddenly dropped to half of that, or less, in less than one year.. well.. I guess you'd have to believe that to make such an assertion. Ignorance is bliss.
Your quick to call someone stupid under the mask of "use your head". Listen dumbass ANYONE who plays knows that if your only playing CASUAL your not coming up with millions of gil in any reasonable amount of time. If your gonna sit here and try to say otherwise, I will say you do not play FFonline and never have. First: I never said you were stupid. Don't put words in my mouth. Saying someone isn't using their head is assuming they have one to use (ie. they're not stupid) - and simply aren't. Comprende? You, on the other hand came right out and called me a dumbass. Again... don't be a hypocrite.
Next: You don't need millions of gil in FFXI. I have never had millions of gil. I've had more than 1 million gil *once* and it was gone soon after. I'm doing fine. So, your rant about it taking so long to make millions really isn't relevant - not now, nor back when prices were jacked.
As for your challenge that I either don't or never have played FFXI:
As I quit FF long ago, I don't care if a scorpion harness is now at 300k or not when I played it was 3 million. You try to sit her and say these armors have never hit the 3 million mark, I will also say you have never played the game, cause you would be a liar. And I was pointing out that it was no longer the case. Also, I'm not sitting 'her' [sic] saying anything. In fact.. if you read what I said more closely, instead of looking for some "juicy bit" to try and debunk, you'd notice that I stated they've *come down*... which would seem to indicate that they were higher at one point. So... once again.. do not put words in my mouth.
I pay money to PLAY a game. not sit on a dock with a fishing pole in my hand waiting 3 hours with my flag up for someone to invite me to a group. As I have explain to my brother MANY times, I only HAVE 3 hours a night I might could play. If i'm spending ALL of it waiting... why pay to play the game. Speak for yourself. To some people, standing on a dock fishing is part of playing the game. By design, it's an optional part of playing the game. No one's forcing you to do it. It isn't fun to you, okay fine. Don't presume to think for everyone else. I personally enjoy fishing, it's a nice way to pass the time when I'm waiting to do something else, and make some money while I'm at it... You *do* know that fishing can be profitable, right? It was when you played and it is now.
You assume to much, You don't play where I played, your community is not the same as mine, so unless you spent the last 2 years on Asura, stfu cause you have no clue what you are talking about. Yes, because the FF community is so *drastically* different from one server to the next that it's almost unrecognizable. Come on, who are you trying to fool. I don't assume anything. I read the forums, I talk to people who either do play or have played on other servers, Asura included. By and large, it's the same way everywhere. People on every server have the same gripes and follow the same trends. Your "community" was not special nor unique.
Call it what you want, but it is the truth, calling people a liar with no proof of what your saying is ridiculous. Fair enough. Maybe your bitter attitude had something to do with it? That's a question, by the way - a guess. Not a statement.
Yes.... It.... Does.....
lol! What's with the ellipses? Going for dramatic effect or something? No, it doesn't. People are pre-disposed to that kind of personality. The game just happens to be one thing that brings it out. Every person I've ever known with that kind of attitude in-game, or out of game, have displayed it in various areas - not just games. You can tell this just by talking to them for any amount of time. Also, there are many people in FFXI without that attitude. I am friends with many of them myself and particularly can't stand elitists myself. Yet, I get by in the game just fine. Oh wait.. maybe that's just because I dont know what it was like on Asura... Maybe that's where all the elitist people gravitate to. (yes, that was sarcasm)
My brothers will both admit they have no life. If you play a game longer than you work in a week.... you have no life. Fresh air, a girlfriend, a movie from time to time NOT on youtube might do you some good. Wait... was that last statement aimed at me? Are you being presumptuous of someone else you don't know anything about because they happen to disagree with you? You really should stop that.
I could care less how long they play as they are not me, but wasting life is exactly what they do, I can even have one login to MMORPG and tell you himself he has NO LIFE. Okay... some people choose to watch TV all day. Some choose to hang out at bars and drink. Some choose to play video games. Some play golf all day. Some are independantly wealthy and are making 20x more than the average person while doing 1/10th the work and have that kind of time to "waste" - I've met a couple of them too. To each their own. Then again, I'm not one to go around categorizing or labeling people... makes ya look presumptuous and arrogant.
Did not say I would. What I said was FF is not for casual players of any kind, at least a casual player who likes to set goals that do not takes years to accomplish. Fact: A good personal friend of mine is married with a full-time-job and a child. He's also a drummer and dedicates some of his time to that. He started FFXI at NA PC release with me. He spends 2-3 hours - a few nights a week - playing FFXI. He's got 2 jobs at 75 both with full AF. He's got all storylines for FFXI, Zilart and CoP done with most of ToAU done. He's doing just fine gil-wise. Does Dynamis runs on the weekends, at the end of the night, when his wife and child are sleeping and there's nothing else he would be doing, other than watching TV. He doesn't neglect other responsibilities to play the game, ever. I'd say he's a casual player and still has managed to get alot done in the game. Difference between you and him is this... He realized he wouldn't get that far as quickly as others, was fine with that because he enjoys the game, and didn't complain about it. You in turn complained, blamed the game and all the elitist players and gave up. In short, you *can* be a casual player in FFXI and still make progress - if you have the right attitude/expectations. So forgive me if I have absolutely no sympathy for your "plight". You really need to learn to read. I said I had 50's before I HAD KIDS. As in before my kids ( were born). My kids are all to young to play games. Just learn to read before looking like an ass. No... actually you said - and I quote - "back before my kids". I'm sure you'll agree that "I had 50s back before my kids" is alot more open to interpretation than "I had 50s before I had kids". That is assuming you want to be intellectually honest about it. I can read perfectly well, thank you and read what you wrote word for word. Perhaps you should learn to express yourself more clearly. Or at least learn to quote yourself better. You obviously have problems with WoW, that is your problem, I don't defend or praise wow, but it is a fact WoW craps all over ANY game yes even your precious FF in subs... Like takes a HUGE dump on it. Even if FF had 500k players (which it doesn't) still 500k to 9 million you do the math since your so good at using your head, and even better at reading comprehension. lol. You forgot to add "so neener neener" at the end of that.
I'm guessing I'm supposed to feel "pwned" by that. I don't, sorry. I've said before WoW is an anomaly, not the norm. I'm not into playing "my MMO can beat up your MMO", so I really don't care who has more. I don't play games for a popularity contest, I play them because I enjoy them. I enjoy FFXI. I don't enjoy WoW. Simple.
Also, I think for what it is, WoW is a very good game, very polished and typical of a Blizzard title. It is a very simplified MMO with alot more hand-holding than others. Blizzard themself said they were aiming to make an easier, more accessible MMO. Which is what they did and which, personally, feels like having training wheels and feels to easy to me. Nice try at shutting me down but.. umm.. nah... didn't work.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I played ffxi for almost 3 years and am finally done. Squenix has no idea what players want anymore. All theyre new content is aimed at players who have been there forever so no one really wants to start playing a new character casue nothing has changed in the early lvls in years. Now with the adding of the pic/monster system theyve effectively made it into an mmo pokemon and its a poor attempt at that also. no new races, badly designed new jobs and no real pvp. Plus soloing in this game sucks. I made fun of everyone that played wowo when it came out as they all left ff to go play it but i finally saw the light and have left to go play it as well. If you know me on ff i was hakken on remora. Ill now be on gnomeragan server for wow as shaggar. see you soon probably.
just another person who is pissed for no reason after they quit. besides me being a longtime player, and now not playing much at all, (knowing this a a giant troll post) il tell you the real downlow
1) yes they dont listen as much these days, i can easly agree.. like where is the geomancer everyone wanted, or a new tank job (sience were very limited to only 2)
2)yes there is rarely new low lvl player contenet added, sience there is the fact u can play every job on 1 guy, whats the point of a new guy?
3) the games geting old, and its one of the few games of its style (more hardcore grind/forced group) so of course whats the poit of adding low lvl contenet when there isnt alot of new ppl around, they arent wow where they advertise all the time and A TON. they basicly give endgame stuff because at this point its mostly ppl who have at least 1 75 job.
4) the new jobs, now you half wrong, Dancer is very uniqe and everyone likes it. being the first upfront TP using main heals was orginal and a good fresh idea for the game. scholar on the other hand feels like a repeat job with 1 or 2 nice upgrades.
5)from day 1 SE said "we intend FFXI to be a very community based game, we want people to have to rely on one another to accomplish goals" so you babbling about it not being WoW simple and solo, well you obviously dont look up shit about a game. its targeted twords a certain style of play, and its not changing.
so basicly enjoy wow, after playing a game like this or oldschool EQ, WoW its a newbie friendly solo fest to me. and bitching about subs, it has probly well over 500k subs and isnt advertised to hell and beyond like WoW or anything, its purposfully made a certain way. also they are midest of a new MMO and a brand new "white engine" they are using for it. its been worked on sience 05 when they introduced the 3rd expansion. not only does it look amazing but if its anything like this, just improved, il play it in a heartbeat.
Matter of fact dude your just all the way around an idiot, I'm not even going to sit here and play stupid troll games with you. FF is a ok game for the players it is pitched to. FF has it's place in the MMO community. FF is not in any danger of dying tho your 500k players is way off base if you want to admit it or not. FF is not for everyone. FF wasn't for me. Now go play stupid troll games with someone else.
I'm playing stupid troll games? LMAO
That's rich.
Everything I post is based on current and/or verifiable information. I've been playing the game since NA PC launch, I've seen it at its worst and I've seen it at its best. I personally know people who have 2-3 hours, maybe a few nights a week, to play and do just fine. I know people who have many hours a week to play and aren't doing as well as those without.
The game has 500k+ players. You and Mr. "I'm bitter because I suck at FFXI and my kids are better than me" up there can come up with arbitrary unsupported numbers all you want. Again, hard numbers, consistent from one year to the next, are a lot more dependable than what someone "thinks" they are.
Oh and calling people a "troll" or a "dumbass" or whatever other names you and your buddy want to throw at me doesnt' make you seem more right. Does make you seem a tad defensive, though.
Hmmm, I am new to MMORPG and wanted to start playing FFXI.
After reading all this which has gotten off topic by a huge margin.
WSIMike your kinda coming off as a know-it-all type.
The guy is not being defensive your very rude comments are making them act that way.
Ever take into consideration that you may not know as much as you think you do. That would be a notion huh?
If this is the caliber of players I would be looking foward to in playing FFXI. I think I will pass. Thanks WSIMike for being a completely rude know-it-all.
*Claps*
The rude tone seems to have started before the more recent replies, when the title of the thread was "this game needs to die". It is very unfortunate for a new MMORPG.com person to find these arguments - there are many more in among the other forum categories. You must have had a lot of interest in FFXI to make this your first post (what a shame!).
I clicked on your name and saw that you are from IN! One of my linkshell friends is also from a Willow Springs, but it's in Illinois. Sadly, that was the best I could do to start up a lighter subject - it won't work if you two are from different states!
You go from one horrible game to an even worse one. WoW is the top of the list shitty games. Go play something that isn't as crappy while you wait for Darkfall Online.
Matter of fact dude your just all the way around an idiot, I'm not even going to sit here and play stupid troll games with you. FF is a ok game for the players it is pitched to. FF has it's place in the MMO community. FF is not in any danger of dying tho your 500k players is way off base if you want to admit it or not. FF is not for everyone. FF wasn't for me. Now go play stupid troll games with someone else.
I'm playing stupid troll games? LMAO
That's rich.
Everything I post is based on current and/or verifiable information. I've been playing the game since NA PC launch, I've seen it at its worst and I've seen it at its best. I personally know people who have 2-3 hours, maybe a few nights a week, to play and do just fine. I know people who have many hours a week to play and aren't doing as well as those without.
The game has 500k+ players. You and Mr. "I'm bitter because I suck at FFXI and my kids are better than me" up there can come up with arbitrary unsupported numbers all you want. Again, hard numbers, consistent from one year to the next, are a lot more dependable than what someone "thinks" they are.
Oh and calling people a "troll" or a "dumbass" or whatever other names you and your buddy want to throw at me doesnt' make you seem more right. Does make you seem a tad defensive, though.
Hmmm, I am new to MMORPG and wanted to start playing FFXI.
After reading all this which has gotten off topic by a huge margin.
WSIMike your kinda coming off as a know-it-all type.
The guy is not being defensive your very rude comments are making them act that way.
Ever take into consideration that you may not know as much as you think you do. That would be a notion huh?
If this is the caliber of players I would be looking foward to in playing FFXI. I think I will pass. Thanks WSIMike for being a completely rude know-it-all.
*Claps*
A comletely rude know-it-all. Now that's a first. I back up my arguments with actual sources - they pull numbers out of thin air. But I'm the know-it-all.
I know what I know.. and I make sure I can back it up before I say anything. You don't have to take my word for it. You can look up and verify every piece of objective information I've provided here. In fact, I invite you to.
Despite that trend, with everything broken down into granular detail, these guys would have you believe that somehow that's all false, and their claim, pulled out of thin air, that it's 250k or less is more spot-on.
And I'm the Know-it-all? Hardly.
As for the "caliber of people you'd be looking forward to"...
So you'd prefer folks like the guy who posts a message with an obvious flame-bait title like "This game needs to die"?
You'd sooner play a game with someone who repeatedly cites out-dated or otherwise incorrect information to "prove their point"?
You'd prefer to play with someone who would sooner believe a population that "seems more realistic to him", without a single source to base it on.
You'd prefer to play with someone who puts words in others' mouths and uses outright name-calling in place of a reasoned argument?
If that's the case then.. frankly.. FFXI is better off without you.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
These kind of posts have to be my favorite kind there are on this website. You can go into any other games forums and see a ton of posts just like this one. Sometimes I think thats all this website is good for, but it's not the websites fault its the need of people to bash something and feel good about themselves. Well kudos to you, you don't like ffxi go join all the others that have played and quit i'll still keep playing until I find something else but isnt that how most MMOs are I mean jeez I'm not playing EQ anymore but it was a fun game it was just time to move on when i did.
Sadder still, there are people like that even off these forums. Someone I used to know a couple years back had played FFXI and loved it. Put who knows how many hours into it and never had a bad thing to say. He stopped playing not because he stopped enjoying it, but because he had to take a break from it for a while and found that in his time away he'd "fallen behind" his friends and wouldn't be able to catch up (in my opinion, he completely missed the point of playing this or any game in the first place - but that's neither here nor there).
In any case, once he stopped playing and went on to another MMO (one we all know of; the 300 lb. gorilla in the genre) he immediately took a completely anti-FFXI stance. He would make fun of anyone who played it, would make fun of the game incessantly and, like the OP, used his "experience" in the game as proof that he was "right". He'd even suggest customers *not* buy it but buy another one instead.
That was pretty much his stance.
Of course he wasn't "right" and, knowing what his real reason was for stopping, I didn't hesitate a moment to call him out on it - in front of those same customers when I was there. He eventually stopped doing it - at least when I was there heheh.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
seriously i dont know what your talking about getting booted for immediatly if you dont certain gear. 95% of people on every server dont have OMGWTG gear. Have you ever thought it might be just you? Unless your a PuP there really isn't a reason to kick someone based on certain gear they're wearing. Every job can perform well even with minimal gear. Sometimes when I level my lower jobs i dont even buy equipment for certain slots unless it has beneficial stats. Even then I dont always "pimp out" my lower jobs. So have you ever thought that maybe you have a made a bad name for yourself and people just dont want to invite you? Or how about trying to ask why you were abruptly kicked from a party for "not wearing a SH".
As for the crafting comments, this game is a high risk higher reward game. Even if you are very smart and have high crafting skills you can still mess up (the risk). Now look at every crafter on your server who has 90-100 skill in a single craft, these people have A Lot of gil. And you can understand that although they fail sometimes they generally and for the most part profit. Crafting is also a severe grind and strain on the pocket because of the same issues and the very nice result when a player finally is able to craft consistant HQ gear.
Seriously, why do we care if you dont want to play our game anymore? Do you honestly need to tell us? You mention how SE fails to conform to what players want, so why then do we still have a 200-300k member base after so long?
Congratulations on going to WoW, I hope the enjoyment and fun lasts. But from my personal experiences, I hope you haven't gave away all your gil/armor.
SQUARE made a huge mistake in making there drop loot/gil drop to kill ratio so bad it's not funny.There is no way without wasting tons of hours farming [nowadays]to get anywhere in the game.At one time when the game was heavily populated with new players everyday,the economy flourished,but with a stagnant population,the chance of a new player making any gil with his 5-15 gil drop a kill is ridiculous.
To give square the benefit of the doubt i guess they never figured on RMT activity that drives any economy outa whack.New players trying to sell low level items have no one to sell to,and once they get mid levels the demand for gil is extremely heavy.There is nothing in the game that would allow a new player the ease of playing everyday without farming for pocket change.
Even if an experienced player tries to guide a noob into the harsh economy of FFXI,they tend to never listen or figure on it not being THAT bad!.Most .i should say pretty much all games can sustain themselves because the drop rates are decent enough to sell to NPC's and allow any new player to survive decently as he levels.As time went along the RMT got even smarter and have invaded crafting and crafting items,so now they control the market on boss drops and crafting.The ones that are not RMT use cheats such as bots/ POS and timers that let them know when each NM will pop.Even so wasting many hours a day not playing the game so you can afford to play the game is dumb.
All of this remains a mystery to any new player as they level along thinking everything is fine.Once they start to really dwelve into the game economy and learn more about the game ,it becomes foul in there mouth,and shows the true mistakes square made.I know i have seen square admit to making several mistakes,so i will be looking forward to there next gen game,wich i am sure will be a much better product.Funny saying this too,because FFXI is already the best product out there,sad they made a few glaring errors and that the game was limited by the PS2 system.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Are you smoking crack rock?
No way in hell FF has 5-600k playing your on drugs. #2 game next to WoW is EQ2 or LotRO it is still up in the air on which is actually higher.... EQ2 has less than 200k and so does LotRO.... so to say FF has 3 times the #2 game next to wow is retarded.
Do not make ridiculous statements.... I don't care HOW much you love FF.
*EDIT* I will also add this, I played FF 2 years, WoW 3 Years, EQ2 1 year and LotR about a month.
WoW is ok at first then begins to blow at 70. WAYYYY to guild raid centered, and boring when you realize its ALL a huge grind for some armor that will be garbage as soon as the next expansion hits.
FF is ok at first then blows when you realize you can never afford anything on the auction house without giving some chinese guy $20 bucks so you can afford your scorpion harness to actually get into a group without being booted out. I pretty much agree with most of the OPs concerns on FF. Way to group centered. I understand that is a focus of the game.... but hell you can't do ANYTHING solo unless you play the solo classes like BST. What if someone doesnt want to play a BST and despises BST... he is pretty much assed out. Grouping is fine, but people should have some kind of choice. FF offers little to no choices.
Its play this class with this sub and heaven forbid if it isn't EXACTLY half of what your main job is... have EXACTLY the gear the group THINKS you should have on or get lost. Kinda lame.....
I agree FF is not for PvP never was intended to be, if you want PvP you shouldn't be in FF. Its for the RP people who like story and immersion. Both good things.
EQ2 is ok not great, just wasn't for me.
LotRO also ok not great, made for Tolkien fans and thats about it.
I have played all these games, and currently play none of them.
But I played them enough to know the pops of them all... and WoW is king of Pop kinda like michael jackson back in the day.
Next EQ2 and LotRO would follow it up as back up dancers.
FF fans are out in front of the stage dancing to the king of pop.
Are you smoking crack rock?
No way in hell FF has 5-600k playing your on drugs. #2 game next to WoW is EQ2 or LotRO it is still up in the air on which is actually higher.... EQ2 has less than 200k and so does LotRO.... so to say FF has 3 times the #2 game next to wow is retarded.
Do not make ridiculous statements.... I don't care HOW much you love FF.
How amusing that you would make a post about numbers based on your instincts rather than research. You have no idea what you are talking about. FFXI does indeed have over 500K subs, but you should note that this is worldwide, not just North America. Those other games have tiny player bases outside the US, whereas FFXI is huge in Asia.
I apologize for copy-pasting a previous reply from a similar thread:
According to the last estimate on MMOGData, FFXI has half a million players. Although I feel the number is slightly lower nowadays, FFXI should still have more players world-wide than EQ2, EVE, or LotRO.
I have characters in several WoW servers (RP and PvP) and two FFXI worlds. A quick check showed that the FFXI worlds I'm in all had more logged-in players than the three WoW servers that I frequent. However, this can just be due to WoW keeping their servers regional.
Are you smoking crack rock?
No way in hell FF has 5-600k playing your on drugs. #2 game next to WoW is EQ2 or LotRO it is still up in the air on which is actually higher.... EQ2 has less than 200k and so does LotRO.... so to say FF has 3 times the #2 game next to wow is retarded.
Do not make ridiculous statements.... I don't care HOW much you love FF.
*EDIT* I will also add this, I played FF 2 years, WoW 3 Years, EQ2 1 year and LotR about a month.
WoW is ok at first then begins to blow at 70. WAYYYY to guild raid centered, and boring when you realize its ALL a huge grind for some armor that will be garbage as soon as the next expansion hits.
FF is ok at first then blows when you realize you can never afford anything on the auction house without giving some chinese guy $20 bucks so you can afford your scorpion harness to actually get into a group without being booted out. I pretty much agree with most of the OPs concerns on FF. Way to group centered. I understand that is a focus of the game.... but hell you can't do ANYTHING solo unless you play the solo classes like BST. What if someone doesnt want to play a BST and despises BST... he is pretty much assed out. Grouping is fine, but people should have some kind of choice. FF offers little to no choices.
Ninja, Black Mage, Blue Mage are some of the classes other than beastmaster that can solo consistently. Dragoon also/ Gil although tough can be acquired if you have consistency. There are ways to make Gil but it needs at least a bit research and not just mindless gridding.
Its play this class with this sub and heaven forbid if it isn't EXACTLY half of what your main job is... have EXACTLY the gear the group THINKS you should have on or get lost. Kinda lame.....
Although true for some cases really it's not always the case. Some jobs in FF are very rigid and only work with specific combos in a pt situation. Others are flexible but need a lot of tweaking.
Very few groups actually make you sub specific things unless it's something non-party useful.
For example red mage *can* sub ninja and be useful, but that doesn't mean that it's the best choice in a part situation. FF is all about adapting to situations that arise during many different things.
As for the equipment thing. The only thing that i have seen people complain are about a couple of items and usually those are for the damage dealers which makes sense though since seeing a damage dealer hitting air in a pt situation is no fun for anyone.
I agree FF is not for PvP never was intended to be, if you want PvP you shouldn't be in FF. Its for the RP people who like story and immersion. Both good things.
EQ2 is ok not great, just wasn't for me.
LotRO also ok not great, made for Tolkien fans and thats about it.
I have played all these games, and currently play none of them.
But I played them enough to know the pops of them all... and WoW is king of Pop kinda like michael jackson back in the day.
Next EQ2 and LotRO would follow it up as back up dancers.
FF fans are out in front of the stage dancing to the king of pop.
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
I am fully aware that FF is bigger in asia than in NA. (which for NA players blows to). I don't care what you say tho, you will never convince me that FF has over 500k players. Despite what wiki news reel you try and throw at me. Also you just did the same thing, that you just said I shouldn't do. Where you play WoW and compare it to your FF server.
WoW has like 80! servers, all at or about max capacity why do you think they had to make 80 of them.
Does FF have 80 servers? Ummm not even close...
Save it, FF is an ok game, but 500k ok.... I don't think so.
Sniper I get what your saying I really do, but it is a proven fact that not all FF servers and the players on them are the same. Asura which is the server I am from is HORRIBLE.
It is horrible player base wise, it is horrible elitist wise and it is horrible economy wise.
When I played I had a Taru BM and a Elvaan Ninja.
It is ALWAYS the case that you must have what they want you have or your not playing.
Both my brothers still play FF, in the AMICITIA LS and I cannot even begin to think of joining this LS unless I have everything needed gear wise and skill wise to play for them.
You have any idea what some of the ninja crap cost on Asura???
I couldn't afford a Haubergeon because it was over 2 MILLION gil... get tha hell outta here.
I was forced to quit the game because I couldn't afford to gear the characters.....
So yeah that's how it is.
So, you're basically saying you don't believe there are that many players when it's a fact? Okay, don't believe the wiki, here is the original. http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/07/index.html
You're never forced to quit, you adapt and just make your own parties. Most people don't care what you have on, they just care you're inviting them. Especially, when its a less than desired job. I've saved up money for gear before. I've been through it all, not having any gil and needing better gear. Those people that might boot you, you just don't party with them anymore. Like I said, you make your own party, you'd be better off. You just have to be smart about making gil, it's really not all that difficult. You don't have to be some max level crafter or anything. Just have to spend some time and invest a few gil really.
I've been playing this game from the start of NAPC. Haven't touched endgame as I don't really see a need for it besides any background story. I just do other stuff. I still haven't been through all of the story yet either. This game is far from dying.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best.
FFXI Character: Satimasu
FFXI Server: Valefor
FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
I do not think that FFXI has more than half a million subscribers right now. With around 185,000 EQ2 subscribers total, there will not be three times as many FFXI players as there are EQ2 players - worldwide or specifically in North America.
From what I remember reading: WoW has around 224 North American servers (probably a total of over 800 realms worldwide), FFXI has 32 international servers, EQ2 has 25 servers, and LotRO has 11 North American servers (11 more in Europe). Indeed, FFXI does not have nearly as many servers as WoW.
I like the analogy that compared to the king-of-pop WoW, EQ2 and LotRO are like back-up dancers in the North American stage! However, I don't think that FFXI caters to a preference similar to the other three. I would see it as FFXI standing in a smaller side-panel playing some other type of music - elevator?
As I was not the one who said that you should not compare FFXI to WoW, I did include a quick comparison between FFXI worlds and WoW servers in my copy-pasted reply from another "Is FFXI dying?" thread which shares similar subjects with this one. Although total subscriber count is a good way to measure a game's business success, I find "active player count per server" to be a better measure of its livelihood - players won't have much in-game interaction with the other millions in community who aren't playing in the same server. Seeing higher numbers of players logged in per server, I don't think that FFXI is in a dying state.
It is possible for FFXI to have slightly more players than EQ2 or LotRO in North America - I put FFXI at 180,000 to 200,000 players, EQ2 at 185,000 (by MMOGdata) but including Station Access members, and LotRO at 140,000 to 180,000 players. Nonetheless, as long as your brothers continue to enjoy elevator music, FFXI will have a chance to live on!
I never said FF will die. I would 100% agree that FF has more like 200-250k players. I wouldnt even attempt to deny that as fact. but 5-600k, noone should be that naive.
FF has a HUGE following in Japan as well as NA. My 2 brothers are DIEHARD FF fans and would never quit FF unless they closed all the servers completely. I also LOVE FF and all of its games... except FF Online.
I have them all Ive beat them all, Square Enix IMO is the BEST maker and producer of RPG's in the world.
I also know that FF is for niche group centric players, I would be fine with this if I could justify the money I am spending to play.
I quit a long time ago, before the corsair and blue mages.
I was paying a fee of 14.99 to sit and wait for hours on end to be invited to a party as a BM. To me the time I spent wasted doing nothing could not justify the cost of the fee. That is only 1 part of why I no longer play as stated there was the gil and armor issues.
FFOnline players can come in here and take up for "themselves" each as individuals, but they are just 1 player of 250 thousand players spread across all servers. Just because they seemed to excel does not mean most players can. Gil is NOT as easy to make as some would think. It isn't like I did not try to make the gil for the armor. It took me 3 weeks of AH selling to make enough money for a scorpion harness which at the time I played was between 2-3 million gil. 3 weeks.... that is along time. I basically spent 14.99 that month to play the AH in hope I could afford 1 piece of armor. That is 1 piece of the 5 or 6 I would need to be considered "good" enough to party with.
In the 2 years I played, NOT 1 TIME... not 1 did I join a party that they did not expect you to be equipped or skill/ subbed a certain way. I even tried the "start my own party thing" and as soon as the people would join if 1 person out of party wasn't what the others thought should be ideal the group would split and members would leave. This game is basically for the hardcore FF fan and elitist player. It caters NONE what so ever to the casual, I cant spend half my life farming gil or playing the stock market to fit in player.
I am 30 years old with 3 kids, my brothers in thier 20's with no kids, they excel because they have the time to waste their life to excel. They have tried to catch me up to them but even with their combined power can never seem to get me where I need to be for the other elitist players of asura to accept me.
So I am currently without a game until a more casual friendly game comes along that is worth a crap.
I play DAoC now but that is because I have played DAoC for 7 years, I had 50's back before my kids. I can play that game without the help of others.
So anyway, I wasn't trying to piss anyone off, just accept the fact that FF isn't for everyone, and FF caters only to a very specific type of player. Which would be the minority of players as WoW clearly shows which type is the more dominant with it's 9 million players vs FF's 250k.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/07/index.html
Also, WoW has over 220 servers in the US alone, which I only mention because it shows how little you know about the subject of games and their populations.
But there is not an exact correlation between server numbers and overall populations. Because games are designed so differently, a full server on one game could hold far more (or fewer) players than a full server on another game.
(FFXI had 33 servers last time I checked.)
Matter of fact dude your just all the way around an idiot, I'm not even going to sit here and play stupid troll games with you.
FF is a ok game for the players it is pitched to.
FF has it's place in the MMO community.
FF is not in any danger of dying tho your 500k players is way off base if you want to admit it or not.
FF is not for everyone.
FF wasn't for me.
Now go play stupid troll games with someone else.
I'm playing stupid troll games? LMAO
That's rich.
Everything I post is based on current and/or verifiable information. I've been playing the game since NA PC launch, I've seen it at its worst and I've seen it at its best. I personally know people who have 2-3 hours, maybe a few nights a week, to play and do just fine. I know people who have many hours a week to play and aren't doing as well as those without.
The game has 500k+ players. You and Mr. "I'm bitter because I suck at FFXI and my kids are better than me" up there can come up with arbitrary unsupported numbers all you want. Again, hard numbers, consistent from one year to the next, are a lot more dependable than what someone "thinks" they are.
Oh and calling people a "troll" or a "dumbass" or whatever other names you and your buddy want to throw at me doesnt' make you seem more right. Does make you seem a tad defensive, though.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'm playing stupid troll games? LMAO
That's rich.
Everything I post is based on current and/or verifiable information. I've been playing the game since NA PC launch, I've seen it at its worst and I've seen it at its best. I personally know people who have 2-3 hours, maybe a few nights a week, to play and do just fine. I know people who have many hours a week to play and aren't doing as well as those without.
The game has 500k+ players. You and Mr. "I'm bitter because I suck at FFXI and my kids are better than me" up there can come up with arbitrary unsupported numbers all you want. Again, hard numbers, consistent from one year to the next, are a lot more dependable than what someone "thinks" they are.
Oh and calling people a "troll" or a "dumbass" or whatever other names you and your buddy want to throw at me doesnt' make you seem more right. Does make you seem a tad defensive, though.
Hmmm, I am new to MMORPG and wanted to start playing FFXI.
After reading all this which has gotten off topic by a huge margin.
WSIMike your kinda coming off as a know-it-all type.
The guy is not being defensive your very rude comments are making them act that way.
Ever take into consideration that you may not know as much as you think you do. That would be a notion huh?
If this is the caliber of players I would be looking foward to in playing FFXI. I think I will pass. Thanks WSIMike for being a completely rude know-it-all.
*Claps*
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
1) yes they dont listen as much these days, i can easly agree.. like where is the geomancer everyone wanted, or a new tank job (sience were very limited to only 2)
2)yes there is rarely new low lvl player contenet added, sience there is the fact u can play every job on 1 guy, whats the point of a new guy?
3) the games geting old, and its one of the few games of its style (more hardcore grind/forced group) so of course whats the poit of adding low lvl contenet when there isnt alot of new ppl around, they arent wow where they advertise all the time and A TON. they basicly give endgame stuff because at this point its mostly ppl who have at least 1 75 job.
4) the new jobs, now you half wrong, Dancer is very uniqe and everyone likes it. being the first upfront TP using main heals was orginal and a good fresh idea for the game. scholar on the other hand feels like a repeat job with 1 or 2 nice upgrades.
5)from day 1 SE said "we intend FFXI to be a very community based game, we want people to have to rely on one another to accomplish goals" so you babbling about it not being WoW simple and solo, well you obviously dont look up shit about a game. its targeted twords a certain style of play, and its not changing.
so basicly enjoy wow, after playing a game like this or oldschool EQ, WoW its a newbie friendly solo fest to me. and bitching about subs, it has probly well over 500k subs and isnt advertised to hell and beyond like WoW or anything, its purposfully made a certain way. also they are midest of a new MMO and a brand new "white engine" they are using for it. its been worked on sience 05 when they introduced the 3rd expansion. not only does it look amazing but if its anything like this, just improved, il play it in a heartbeat.
I'm playing stupid troll games? LMAO
That's rich.
Everything I post is based on current and/or verifiable information. I've been playing the game since NA PC launch, I've seen it at its worst and I've seen it at its best. I personally know people who have 2-3 hours, maybe a few nights a week, to play and do just fine. I know people who have many hours a week to play and aren't doing as well as those without.
The game has 500k+ players. You and Mr. "I'm bitter because I suck at FFXI and my kids are better than me" up there can come up with arbitrary unsupported numbers all you want. Again, hard numbers, consistent from one year to the next, are a lot more dependable than what someone "thinks" they are.
Oh and calling people a "troll" or a "dumbass" or whatever other names you and your buddy want to throw at me doesnt' make you seem more right. Does make you seem a tad defensive, though.
Hmmm, I am new to MMORPG and wanted to start playing FFXI.
After reading all this which has gotten off topic by a huge margin.
WSIMike your kinda coming off as a know-it-all type.
The guy is not being defensive your very rude comments are making them act that way.
Ever take into consideration that you may not know as much as you think you do. That would be a notion huh?
If this is the caliber of players I would be looking foward to in playing FFXI. I think I will pass. Thanks WSIMike for being a completely rude know-it-all.
*Claps*
The rude tone seems to have started before the more recent replies, when the title of the thread was "this game needs to die". It is very unfortunate for a new MMORPG.com person to find these arguments - there are many more in among the other forum categories. You must have had a lot of interest in FFXI to make this your first post (what a shame!).I clicked on your name and saw that you are from IN! One of my linkshell friends is also from a Willow Springs, but it's in Illinois. Sadly, that was the best I could do to start up a lighter subject - it won't work if you two are from different states!
You go from one horrible game to an even worse one. WoW is the top of the list shitty games. Go play something that isn't as crappy while you wait for Darkfall Online.
Hilarious to see kids argue.
Fellas, these are just games. Relax.
If the game isn't fun for you, don't play it.
Different people like different things, THAT is why there are SO MANY GAMES!
Enjoy that and stop the sobbing.
I'm playing stupid troll games? LMAO
That's rich.
Everything I post is based on current and/or verifiable information. I've been playing the game since NA PC launch, I've seen it at its worst and I've seen it at its best. I personally know people who have 2-3 hours, maybe a few nights a week, to play and do just fine. I know people who have many hours a week to play and aren't doing as well as those without.
The game has 500k+ players. You and Mr. "I'm bitter because I suck at FFXI and my kids are better than me" up there can come up with arbitrary unsupported numbers all you want. Again, hard numbers, consistent from one year to the next, are a lot more dependable than what someone "thinks" they are.
Oh and calling people a "troll" or a "dumbass" or whatever other names you and your buddy want to throw at me doesnt' make you seem more right. Does make you seem a tad defensive, though.
Hmmm, I am new to MMORPG and wanted to start playing FFXI.
After reading all this which has gotten off topic by a huge margin.
WSIMike your kinda coming off as a know-it-all type.
The guy is not being defensive your very rude comments are making them act that way.
Ever take into consideration that you may not know as much as you think you do. That would be a notion huh?
If this is the caliber of players I would be looking foward to in playing FFXI. I think I will pass. Thanks WSIMike for being a completely rude know-it-all.
*Claps*
A comletely rude know-it-all. Now that's a first. I back up my arguments with actual sources - they pull numbers out of thin air. But I'm the know-it-all.
I know what I know.. and I make sure I can back it up before I say anything. You don't have to take my word for it. You can look up and verify every piece of objective information I've provided here. In fact, I invite you to.
Here's two to help you out :
Prices of Items: http://ffxiah.com
Population of FFXI over the past few years:
2005 Census: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/05/02main_job.html
2006 Census: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/06/index.html
2007 Census: http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/07/
Despite that trend, with everything broken down into granular detail, these guys would have you believe that somehow that's all false, and their claim, pulled out of thin air, that it's 250k or less is more spot-on.
And I'm the Know-it-all? Hardly.
As for the "caliber of people you'd be looking forward to"...
So you'd prefer folks like the guy who posts a message with an obvious flame-bait title like "This game needs to die"?
You'd sooner play a game with someone who repeatedly cites out-dated or otherwise incorrect information to "prove their point"?
You'd prefer to play with someone who would sooner believe a population that "seems more realistic to him", without a single source to base it on.
You'd prefer to play with someone who puts words in others' mouths and uses outright name-calling in place of a reasoned argument?
If that's the case then.. frankly.. FFXI is better off without you.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops