Warning: SOE and your money

markyturnip

deleted as it ended up in a bunch of flames which I can't be bothered with.

narakuu

I went back to wow for a month about 9 months ago and discovered just a few weeks ago that I was still being billed, but I'm willing to admit that I forgot to properly cancel my subscription. Now I think I read in your thread that you said it was some fault on their side? And since it is Vanguard we are talking about here I dont find that impossible... but is it really not just a mistake on your side of not cancelling properly like another person on here >.> ....

Fadedbomb

Originally posted by markyturnip


Let me preface this by saying I have no history of being an SOE hater, and I wish FLS the best. But a deeply irritating experience with SOE is the reason why I will not even try this game.
I often buy games, play a month, then leave - I am looking very much for a new MMO home, and am willing to invest in any brave new effort that comes along. I was certainly planning on paying for Pirates and trying it out.
The reason I will not is this:
I bought Vanguard earlier this year (when it was still full price, near release),  tried it out, saw the train wreck it was, and decided I did not want to waste my time on it. I  cancelled.
Now I am not the best person with my accounts, so I discovered to my horror the other day that I had continued to be charged for this game on a monthly basis for several months. Needless to say, I have not even looked at the game all that time.
I wrote a complaint of SOE's deeply impersonal forum... asked for my money back. When they eventually replied, it was with a boilerplate message saying I had to write to some fella called etuttle. I wrote, and needless to say its been tumbleweed ever since. I tried again, received another "keep waiting" response saying I would be dealt with, then nothing again.
As far as I can tell, if you have a problem with SOE, you simply cannot get through to a human being. You get form replies, and then nothing. And if you need your money back because of a mistake, no hope. I still have no idea whether anyone has even looked at my complaints and emails. I suspect no-one is home.
So, by all means, try this pirates game. Just know that if there is a problem with your account, and they keep charging you for services not rendered, chances are you will never get it back. I will never risk putting my money in this company's hands again.
 

 

If you really want to stick it to those money grubbing bastards, and you used a CC for Vanguard. Just claim those charges were fraudulant and that SOE will not return the money even though you canceled. Your CC company will then remove them from your billing history and place them in a "Fraudulant" bin. Hopefully, or at least what mine did in a similar situation to yours, is they refunded my "fraudulant" charges via a future bill by deducting what I owed them inot the fraud bin I had.

Down side to this is they send you a letter or some crap (since I had a real phone number on my account they called me with an automated thing) saying you owe them money (even though I tried just like you to get to a real person before I did this) and that if I did not pay them my account would become inaccessable or "in bad standing" with their company.

Bottom line if you really don't give a crap about that account anymore and want to stick it to SOE, in any form or way possible, just try what I did . 

 

FIGHT THA POWA!

Scorchien

     Sounds like your fault entirly make sure you get a confirmation email when you cancel a sub....

markyturnip

I cancelled.

I am willing to swallow the initial insult  that I bought  a broken game, although the simple fact is I was sold something that was rubbish, and Sony knew it. That is really disappointing from a major game company, given how great so many games are these days. Anyway, that's the nature of this industry I guess; we game addicts just have to suck it and wait for the good ones.

But the real insult is the total lack of any response to my complaints at paying for a service I did not use after I cancelled and uninstalled. Nada. Zip.

There are no humans at the other end of the line.

I hate that enough from my telephone company, but from my hobby? Meh.

It is not the end of my world. But I will not give any money to this company again. Simple. And this is nothing to do with what they did or did not do with other games. I played EQ 2 and had no complaints.  But I will not risk dealing with a company that  will not communicate with its clients. Once bitten...

 

 

Gyrus

To support what an earlier poster has said here, if you get no joy from the vendor within a 'reasonable' amount of time - go to your Credit Card company.

(Note: This applies to ANY vendor, not just SOE)

Credit Card companies trade on trust and good faith (and extortionate interest charges! - but that is a whole different subject...;-) )

They take it VERY seriously if a vendor continues to bill you without your express permission. 

Ultimately (if things are bad enough) they may refuse to service a vendor.  For a company that trades online that would be a disaster.

So, yes, approach the vendor's customer service first - then go to your Credit Card provider.

And I would NOT condsider a forum posting appropriate in such a case.  There should be a proper customer service department with real customer service reps to contact via email and / or phone.

Orphes

 

Originally posted by Fadedbomb


 
If you really want to stick it to those money grubbing bastards, and you used a CC for Vanguard. Just claim those charges were fraudulant and that SOE will not return the money even though you canceled. Your CC company will then remove them from your billing history and place them in a "Fraudulant" bin. Hopefully, or at least what mine did in a similar situation to yours, is they refunded my "fraudulant" charges via a future bill by deducting what I owed them inot the fraud bin I had.
Down side to this is they send you a letter or some crap (since I had a real phone number on my account they called me with an automated thing) saying you owe them money (even though I tried just like you to get to a real person before I did this) and that if I did not pay them my account would become inaccessable or "in bad standing" with their company.
Bottom line if you really don't give a crap about that account anymore and want to stick it to SOE, in any form or way possible, just try what I did . 
 
FIGHT THA POWA!

 

Try? As in take a chance and see if it works?

If one would report a fraud. Like this company draw money from my account without my consent, and then it turns out I actually did. Isn't that a fraud in itself?

I'm not shure here but I don't it's a general good advice to do it without discussing with the bank first and see what they think is a proper solution. If they would agree it's a fraud, ok.

I don't know what you have to do. But for me I would have a paper showing that I have reported the fraud to authorities before the bank will do anything. If I would make a falseclaim it is me the bank will turn to as I'm responsible for making a falseclaim. Ofcourse one can be wrong do a mistake with this, but if I intentionally made mistake then it would most certainly show in the end.

Platon2x

I preordered Vanguard and when I found out SOE was involved,.. well the game is still in its sealed state

Same goes for this game, was about to preorder and saw station.soe.com in the url and ran for my life.

Back to topic, complain to Your creditcard issuer and problem solved. The MC and Visa demands the vendor to prove that You didnt cancel.

 

John Smelly allready stated that those kinds of complains have costed his company way beyond 1mill allready or yearly

 

Go for it!!!

Annekynn

---

I cancelled.

---

Any time you cancel something you receive an email confirmation in my experience. If you have that original email, print it off and give it to your credit card company, along with an insistence on a charge reversal. CC company should give you the money back and then bill SOE for the fraudulent amount.

Dracus

Confirmation Emails are not always sent out, be intentional, designed in such mater, or there was an error in transmission.  So never rely on such messages.

As stated above, best to contact the Credit Card company and inform them that you would like to challenge the payments towards SOE as they were invalid (you had canceled the service).  Also you may want to call up SOE and be a stubborn mule in demanding to talk to a customer representative that has the ability to help you (may take some time).  If you do this, log down when you called, who you spoke too (ask for them to tell you their full name, again if needed to insure that the name was written down properly; also this does make the representative take notice), and how things were resolved.  By so doing, you have reference to work with, should your credit card company ask you of the actions you took.

Netzoko

 

Originally posted by markyturnip


Let me preface this by saying I have no history of being an SOE hater, and I wish FLS the best. But a deeply irritating experience with SOE is the reason why I will not even try this game.
I often buy games, play a month, then leave - I am looking very much for a new MMO home, and am willing to invest in any brave new effort that comes along. I was certainly planning on paying for Pirates and trying it out.
The reason I will not is this:
I bought Vanguard earlier this year (when it was still full price, near release),  tried it out, saw the train wreck it was, and decided I did not want to waste my time on it. I  cancelled.
Now I am not the best person with my accounts, so I discovered to my horror the other day that I had continued to be charged for this game on a monthly basis for several months. Needless to say, I have not even looked at the game all that time.
I wrote a complaint of SOE's deeply impersonal forum... asked for my money back. When they eventually replied, it was with a boilerplate message saying I had to write to some fella called etuttle. I wrote, and needless to say its been tumbleweed ever since. I tried again, received another "keep waiting" response saying I would be dealt with, then nothing again.
As far as I can tell, if you have a problem with SOE, you simply cannot get through to a human being. You get form replies, and then nothing. And if you need your money back because of a mistake, no hope. I still have no idea whether anyone has even looked at my complaints and emails. I suspect no-one is home.
So, by all means, try this pirates game. Just know that if there is a problem with your account, and they keep charging you for services not rendered, chances are you will never get it back. I will never risk putting my money in this company's hands again.
 

 

So, you failed to properly cancel and are whining for your money back?

Regardless, how come you missed it on your monthly statements? If I saw a sub on there I would go cancel it.

 

Shoal

Some notes :

*  With SoE, after you cancel, if you check the status of your account it will show that the subscription is no longer renewing.

*  If you use your CC to get your money back, you will NEVER be able to use that card with SoE again and all your accounts related to it will be canceled and deleted !

*  I have been playing SoE games from the early days of EQ1 and have  never had a single issue canceling or restarting accounts.

Just my experience.

winter

Originally posted by markyturnip


Let me preface this by saying I have no history of being an SOE hater, and I wish FLS the best. But a deeply irritating experience with SOE is the reason why I will not even try this game.
I often buy games, play a month, then leave - I am looking very much for a new MMO home, and am willing to invest in any brave new effort that comes along. I was certainly planning on paying for Pirates and trying it out.
The reason I will not is this:
I bought Vanguard earlier this year (when it was still full price, near release),  tried it out, saw the train wreck it was, and decided I did not want to waste my time on it. I  cancelled.
Now I am not the best person with my accounts, so I discovered to my horror the other day that I had continued to be charged for this game on a monthly basis for several months. Needless to say, I have not even looked at the game all that time.
I wrote a complaint of SOE's deeply impersonal forum... asked for my money back. When they eventually replied, it was with a boilerplate message saying I had to write to some fella called etuttle. I wrote, and needless to say its been tumbleweed ever since. I tried again, received another "keep waiting" response saying I would be dealt with, then nothing again.
As far as I can tell, if you have a problem with SOE, you simply cannot get through to a human being. You get form replies, and then nothing. And if you need your money back because of a mistake, no hope. I still have no idea whether anyone has even looked at my complaints and emails. I suspect no-one is home.
So, by all means, try this pirates game. Just know that if there is a problem with your account, and they keep charging you for services not rendered, chances are you will never get it back. I will never risk putting my money in this company's hands again.
 

Ok thanks for the warning, though personally I'm a adult and try and keep track of my money. When I don't, I generally own up to the fact it was indeed my fault for not paying attention to my finances rather then trying to blame someone else. Hey what can I say it would be nice if everyone in the world looked out for each other, but they don't and blaming a company for ones own irresponsibility seems a weak.

  its a tough world kid get used to it. Companies are out to make money. If you don't watch your finances really your the one to blame not them. this of coursae applies to everyone (myself as well) not just you.

 

Unknown

The best solution is to call your bank and have a chargeback issued against SOE for the amount.  SOE will then have to justify their charge and they won't be able to.

Don't even deal with SOE CS.

 

winter

 

 

Orphes

 

Originally posted by salvaje


The best solution is to call your bank and have a chargeback issued against SOE for the amount.  SOE will then have to justify their charge and they won't be able to.
Don't even deal with SOE CS.
 

 

Solution - yes.

Best solution - no.

Idiot solution - yes.

 

You seem to be a real good friend with suggesting that, really.

dimmit77

       If you really want to help fellow players , instead of advising them to not play a game because of a mistake you made , you  could just advise them to 1. Always make sure you actually cancelled a subscription and not just thought you did. 2. Always check you monthly credit card bill to see what charges are on it. Problem solved.

         Or ofcourse you can go on and blame other for your stupidity. That works too.       

  

alakram

To avoid this kind of things I use a virtual credit card. It has no money until I charge it and I charge only what Iexpect to pay, if you forgot to cancel an account at least you don't loose the money.

Antarious

I really simply am sorry but....

I HAVE a history of being an SOE hater.  Unfortunately my GF does not and likes EQ2..

I have played SOE games since EQ1... have never been charged for a "canceled" account.

I had an issue with an account and when I call them I not only get a human.. but one that seems to have English as a primary language as well.  The issue was fixed in under 5 minutes... In fact I've called them a few times on account related matters.

When you cancel an account they also send you an email that confirms the fact you canceled.  Which is a nice thing to have in case they do bill you somehow.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience... Their fault or yours.. doesn't really matter.  Its not the norm...

Telling people to do charge backs is really a bad idea.  Why?

Every MMO company out there has one policy.... You do a charge back.. your accounts are perma banned.

Of course if you don't ever want to go back.. I guess that's not a problem.

Vincenz

most...asinine...complaint...ever.

 

I hate SOE, I don't like this game, but this post is about worthless.  Please don't fear this game because of this OP's inability to deal with his finances properly.

markyturnip

tough crowd

anyway, take it anyway you like - I prefer to give companies my money when they talk to me. When they ignore me I tend not to want to give them my money. Simple. Point is - I am saying that you should not expect SOE to talk to you if you have an issue with them.

Decent people, way I see it, don't charge you for services not rendered. If you decide to take an "it's dog eat dog" attitude to business, well, good luck. No doubt anything is justified under that philosphy. But plenty of business don't work like that, and gain a solid clientele on the back of approachability, decency, consistency.

"Most assinine complaint ever?" Interested to hear you think that SOE has behaved decently in this case. Glad I am not your customer is all I can say.

 

 

Vincenz

Originally posted by markyturnip


tough crowd
anyway, take it anyway you like - I prefer to give companies my money when they talk to me. When they ignore me I tend not to want to give them my money. Simple. Point is - I am saying that you should not expect SOE to talk to you if you have an issue with them.
Decent people, way I see it, don't charge you for services not rendered. If you decide to take an "it's dog eat dog" attitude to business, well, good luck. No doubt anything is justified under that philosphy. But plenty of business don't work like that, and gain a solid clientele on the back of approachability, decency, consistency.
"Most assinine complaint ever?" Interested to hear you think that SOE has behaved decently in this case. Glad I am not your customer is all I can say.
 
 

You know what would be a great MMO?  One that had a single developer for every single player they signed up.  That way, everytime you cried your little girl tears, you'd have someone close at hand with a box of kleenex to wipe it from your little gamer eye.

markyturnip

Originally posted by Vincenz


 
Originally posted by markyturnip


tough crowd
anyway, take it anyway you like - I prefer to give companies my money when they talk to me. When they ignore me I tend not to want to give them my money. Simple. Point is - I am saying that you should not expect SOE to talk to you if you have an issue with them.
Decent people, way I see it, don't charge you for services not rendered. If you decide to take an "it's dog eat dog" attitude to business, well, good luck. No doubt anything is justified under that philosphy. But plenty of business don't work like that, and gain a solid clientele on the back of approachability, decency, consistency.
"Most assinine complaint ever?" Interested to hear you think that SOE has behaved decently in this case. Glad I am not your customer is all I can say.
 
 

You know what would be a great MMO?  One that had a single developer for every single player they signed up.  That way, everytime you cried your little girl tears, you'd have someone close at hand with a box of kleenex to wipe it from your little gamer eye.

 

hehe - you are funny! (and a wee bit grumpy, but we'll let that pass)

twhint

Welcome to the world of business. You must not do a lot of business with companies if you require someone to actually physically speak with you, because as I understand, most won't.

You have been told how to resolve the problem, by several people. It's up to you, at this point, to follow through with their solution. My guess is, is that you are withholding certain things, such as the lack of 'cancel subscription' email, and your real reason is that you are embittered to find out /you/ screwed up during the cancellation process and didn't really cancel like you thought you did, and now you don't want to take responsibility for /your/ screwup and are blaming SOE, the convenient scapegoat.

But it doesn't matter. Just go through your CC company and let them deal with SOE. That's what they're there for.[

bezado

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by markyturnip


Let me preface this by saying I have no history of being an SOE hater, and I wish FLS the best. But a deeply irritating experience with SOE is the reason why I will not even try this game.
I often buy games, play a month, then leave - I am looking very much for a new MMO home, and am willing to invest in any brave new effort that comes along. I was certainly planning on paying for Pirates and trying it out.
The reason I will not is this:
I bought Vanguard earlier this year (when it was still full price, near release),  tried it out, saw the train wreck it was, and decided I did not want to waste my time on it. I  cancelled.
Now I am not the best person with my accounts, so I discovered to my horror the other day that I had continued to be charged for this game on a monthly basis for several months. Needless to say, I have not even looked at the game all that time.
I wrote a complaint of SOE's deeply impersonal forum... asked for my money back. When they eventually replied, it was with a boilerplate message saying I had to write to some fella called etuttle. I wrote, and needless to say its been tumbleweed ever since. I tried again, received another "keep waiting" response saying I would be dealt with, then nothing again.
As far as I can tell, if you have a problem with SOE, you simply cannot get through to a human being. You get form replies, and then nothing. And if you need your money back because of a mistake, no hope. I still have no idea whether anyone has even looked at my complaints and emails. I suspect no-one is home.
So, by all means, try this pirates game. Just know that if there is a problem with your account, and they keep charging you for services not rendered, chances are you will never get it back. I will never risk putting my money in this company's hands again.
 

 

If you really want to stick it to those money grubbing bastards, and you used a CC for Vanguard. Just claim those charges were fraudulant and that SOE will not return the money even though you canceled. Your CC company will then remove them from your billing history and place them in a "Fraudulant" bin. Hopefully, or at least what mine did in a similar situation to yours, is they refunded my "fraudulant" charges via a future bill by deducting what I owed them inot the fraud bin I had.

Down side to this is they send you a letter or some crap (since I had a real phone number on my account they called me with an automated thing) saying you owe them money (even though I tried just like you to get to a real person before I did this) and that if I did not pay them my account would become inaccessable or "in bad standing" with their company.

Bottom line if you really don't give a crap about that account anymore and want to stick it to SOE, in any form or way possible, just try what I did . 

 

FIGHT THA POWA!

Yeah and all the time later your credit history takes a hit from it. No thanks, if the person didn't cancel the sub correctly it is the users fault. I doubt that anyone canceling pays that much attention to the screen and email after that says you successfully canceled. So many claim it is the companies fault when really the consumer is just ignorant.

And remember, if the CC company does settle the dispute then you still owe and these game companies do report to the credit bureau when they have outstanding unpaid charges from situations like this. Once the charges are reversed the game companies still holds you liable and feeds that to credit reporting agency for collections. Not that it happened to me but I know this is true from other forums I read about this happening to people.

grimboj

SOE is a member of the better business bureaux. Keep evidence of your enquiries and log a complaint with the BBB. If SOE refuse to reply they lose BBB membership.