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Why would anyone play this?
Sylvarius
Member Posts: 69
I did the trial or something at one point in time, and was extremely disappointed in this game. It is not Dungeons and Dragons in any way whatsoever.
I just dont see why anyone who plays D&D in real life would be satisfied with this game. I am not trying to be a prick or anything, but if someone could provide me with information as to what makes this game good or similar to the pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons please inform me.
Comments
Could you elaborate when that point in "time" was when you tried a free trial?
The game has some innovative features not yet found in online gaming. Puzzles and traps are becoming more and more dynamic with each publish. This is the only online game that I know of where "jumping" has a strategic nescisity to succession; rogue can't jump to teh ledge to reach the control box for the insta-death trap?
Most players are capable of accepting compromise when identifying how some things in a pen&paper game wouldn't work in a scripted world. DDO makes this very accesible in terms of adventuring and character building while staying fairly close to current pnp rules; there are differences and not all will be exact. Remember, "game play" is more important then one person not being able to make and play their dream of a character they created 20 years ago.
While I have not played anything other then the 1st edition rules I will say it is absolutely nothing like the AD&D I had played growing up. The theme does feel like D&D and *most* of the Narrated Dungeon Master voice overs are absolutely superb! Questing with a group of players is fun and the community is mature for the most part. Even then, you can seriously tweak out your character builds to suit a play style that might not have been viable in pnp.
The shortcommings would be things "I" liked with AD&D: Hencemen is out of the question unless you charm NPC's while in a dungeon; inventory space is at a rediculous premium; No castles, keeps or fortresses to build, supply and repair; Quests aren't nearly as dynamic as player DM's would permit.
For the most part, DDO is a great game. Even though I am currently bored with it I will say that Dungeons & Dragons Online is by far one of the best subscription based MMO's on the market. It has not recieved the attention it deserves largely due to short commings made early by Turbine.
i guess my problems with it, when i played it, were that it was extremely linear, and the world felt very very small compared to how it feels to play D&D or even other well made MMO's. To me it seems that they focused to much on combat, and dungeon delving rather than the things that truly make D&D a unique game to play.
Forgive me if i sound rude, but how can you fuck up something thats already done for you? I'm looking at my small collection of only about 10 third edition books, and thats just a small portion of the number of books made for third edition D&D. The number of choices are endless, with over 20 base classes, and hundreds of prestige classes, not to mention the insane ammount of variations out there. Thats just with classes, the game world is another story. An MMO should be huge, and D&D can be as big as you want it to be. Im pretty sure that the world of Eberron is very large, but when i played DDO, i was basically restricted to this one city where i felt like i was being baby sat by the creepy DM voice guy.
How come you cant own your own castle? city? airship? How come i cant become an evil necromancer and bring havoc to the game world while players try to stop me and others want to join me? I understand its a video game, but theres some pretty in depth complex games out there, that come close to D&D PnP freedom.
Please tell me your idea how would they solve a spell OP issue in a sandbox style MMORPG ffa PVP using d20 rules. Imagine a level 20 wizard casting time stop and whatever d6/level AoE damage spell that would wipe off all the level 1-12 players in the area.
Do you remember spells like Horrid Wilting, Meteorm Swarm, Weird, Wail of the Banshee, Imprisonment, Maze, Power Word Kill, etc etc that would instantly kill most of the players around... D20 is simply not possible to use for open PVP world. It can only be cooperation. Of course we all have dreams about that phenomenal sandbox style MMORPG where you could do anything as you described with huge world, tons of cities, and then we all can bitch on how Turbine messed up the best license that they could do the biggest world, with the best char customization, the most NPC's, the most quests etc... Do you actually blame them they didn't spend at least 200mil $ for developing such a game? Or do you think it would be possible to make such a "dream" game for less?
REALITY CHECK
Someone's 'Dream' game will never live up to that person's dream unless they themselves designed it at every level. Other people will always find faults or want to make changes to someone elses idea of a dream game, so basically you will never fully get a game you 100% like everything about and would't want to change it in anyway. Alot of people complain about what DDO isn't. Fair enough. Same arguments could be made for that craptastic D&D live action movie. D&D is based on the pen & paper rpg, which in turn is based on peoples imaginations. It's impossible to make something out of the D&D franchise that would live up to peoples imaginations. We need to stop worrying about what DDO isn't, and start accepting what it is.
2. The story is based out of Stormreach, but now there are travels to the Restless Isles, Menechtauran Desert, Gianthold Tor, Tangleroot Gorge, Sorrowdusk Isle, and on and on. Yes, there's no overworld travel and exploration...thank god. There are many adventure areas though, if that's what you're into, that you can explore through...find landmarks, unique encounters, all of that.
3. The scale of sandbox game you're describing would be about 50 times the scale of Vanguard, would take about 50 times the cost to develop as any MMO on the market, and would be due out around 2020.
I gotta go with the "reality check" thing here as well.
The only thing "linear" about DDO is that quests are directed experiances. Other then that, combat in DDO is by far the most dynamic and engaing experiance currently availble in MMOs; EVE can compare as well with pre-cu SWG in terms of character dynamics.
Seriously, I've NEVER heard someone complain that a developer of an mmo spent too much time perfecting combat. That claim sounds idiotic - would you have prefered no time spent on combat? Keep in mind, the largest aspect of D&D *is* combat!
I am becoming suspect, the game was *not* "fucked up" and I suspect we can admit to being ignorant to some degree.
There's still the single city although many areas exist around it. These areas are wilderness explorative instanced zones that greatly expand upon the gaming environment.
New Dungeon Master voice overs are being added with each content addition. Most are exceptionaly well done and far surpass 99.99% of the children I've ever heard attemtp to be a DM. If you think the voice over's are "creepy" then either you just don't get it or are intent upon bashing it. Have you heard the DM voice overs of Gary Gygax, abosultely laughable!
Actualyl, you can very well Rollplay that you ARE that evil mage with others in your party wanting to join you. Hello Johny Come Lately, it's called RollPlaying for a reason!
The castle/keeps (ie, persitent world) is dynamic game play and much needed. Unfortunately this type of thing requires a tremendous amount of development before it could be instituted. Maybe, just maybe, Turbine will identify how dyanmical persistent environments secure longevity to subscription based models.
The only thing "linear" about DDO is that quests are directed experiances. Other then that, combat in DDO is by far the most dynamic and engaing experiance currently availble in MMOs; EVE can compare as well with pre-cu SWG in terms of character dynamics.
Seriously, I've NEVER heard someone complain that a developer of an mmo spent too much time perfecting combat. That claim sounds idiotic - would you have prefered no time spent on combat? Keep in mind, the largest aspect of D&D *is* combat!
I am becoming suspect, the game was *not* "fucked up" and I suspect we can admit to being ignorant to some degree.
There's still the single city although many areas exist around it. These areas are wilderness explorative instanced zones that greatly expand upon the gaming environment.
New Dungeon Master voice overs are being added with each content addition. Most are exceptionaly well done and far surpass 99.99% of the children I've ever heard attemtp to be a DM. If you think the voice over's are "creepy" then either you just don't get it or are intent upon bashing it. Have you heard the DM voice overs of Gary Gygax, abosultely laughable!
Actualyl, you can very well Rollplay that you ARE that evil mage with others in your party wanting to join you. Hello Johny Come Lately, it's called RollPlaying for a reason!
The castle/keeps (ie, persitent world) is dynamic game play and much needed. Unfortunately this type of thing requires a tremendous amount of development before it could be instituted. Maybe, just maybe, Turbine will identify how dyanmical persistent environments secure longevity to subscription based models.
as far as Castle Keeps, I personally believe guild housing will be in 6.1 on the 2nd anniversary.
i played this game when it first came out, which was a while ago. but from what you guys have said i think that i will go ahead and give it a try again.
Get into a group to help gain exp, or create one and make known you are going to crawl. Let others who join your group know your aren't, or are, wanting to rush. Also be sure to attempt to create a group and advertise "Outdoor Quests only" while mentioing youre a returning player who would like to see of the additions rather then the same old stuff you didn't like the first time.
In all honesty, the content has gotten a hell of a lot better in the higher levels. It's reasonably easy to cap out at level 14 so make that goal based upon your playstyle.
Most importantly, have fun with it.
i ve just come to the end of the free ten day trial on ddo . i found the instanced gameplay a little to limited and by the end of the trial i was starting to get a little bored . its not a bad game but its not something i think is worth subscribing to each month . guild wars offers something similar for free (not that i m overkeen on that either). i would say it proberbly would appeal pretty much exclusivly to people who play the rpg in real life . although having said that i know a few who do and they ve warned me this was a bit disapointing . shame really ,a real missed opertunity .
That's the real rub with DDO imo: the market and the other games that are out there. Other games set lines and standards just by being there, and it's in that sense that DDO fails...
NWN: user created stories and worlds, cooperative roleplay, was 50 bucks + zero/month.
GW: instanced stories, pvp arenas and games, was 50 bucks + zero/month.
DDO: instanced dungeons, cooperative play.... 50 bucks + 15/month ??
That's the real rub with DDO imo: the market and the other games that are out there. Other games set lines and standards just by being there, and it's in that sense that DDO fails...
NWN: user created stories and worlds, cooperative roleplay, was 50 bucks + zero/month.
GW: instanced stories, pvp arenas and games, was 50 bucks + zero/month.
DDO: instanced dungeons, cooperative play.... 50 bucks + 15/month ??
NWN is not an MMO...not even close. What would they charge monthly for???
Guild Wars holds zero interest for me, personally.
Personally, I've taken up DDO (and so has my wife) as a nice alternative to the steady kill X amount of mobs, time sink, time sink, time sink mmo. DDO's great for the casual player since you can log in, do an instance run then log off having accomplished SOMETHING, unlike most MMO's out there.
I've played EQ (hardcore raiding upto Demi), Vanguard, EQ2, L2, CoH/V, EVE, AO, SWG, LoTRO, TR, and several dozen F2P's. DDO's got my interest for now and due to the changes since I last played it in beta, it'll keep it for awhile.
That's the real rub with DDO imo: the market and the other games that are out there. Other games set lines and standards just by being there, and it's in that sense that DDO fails...
NWN: user created stories and worlds, cooperative roleplay, was 50 bucks + zero/month.
GW: instanced stories, pvp arenas and games, was 50 bucks + zero/month.
DDO: instanced dungeons, cooperative play.... 50 bucks + 15/month ??
NWN is not an MMO...not even close. What would they charge monthly for???
Guild Wars holds zero interest for me, personally.
Semantics... definition of 'mmo' doesn't mean anything. Point is, NWN has continuous new content with roleplayers and some grouping/meeting others, user made items, worlds, stories, etc. SO if you are going to charge 15/mo, the 'something' you are charging for has to be more than that. DDO doesn't have that much more than nwn, and in some aspects, has less (i.e. no user-created content).
GW: it's fair I guess. I'm not trying to sell you on it... I don't play GW either. It's just that it has pvp games, and some story, and some grouping / questing.... DDO would need that, and a little more if they want to get away with charging 15/mo. Does DDO have pvp arenas/games/areas? Little wow-like battlefields?
What does DDO have that these other two games don't have? That would justify 15/mo? Granted, it looks better and plays smoother, but in regard to gameplay, I just don't see the justification... not in the same league with wow, eq2, lotro as far as immersion and world openness... not much better than nwn,gw...
TO get that true pnp feel, world needs to be open, and maybe some user-created content in some way.... don't know. The pnp game doesn't map to an mmo that well anyway, (as someone above already pointed out). It may be a no-win attempt to begin with...
That's the real rub with DDO imo: the market and the other games that are out there. Other games set lines and standards just by being there, and it's in that sense that DDO fails...
NWN: user created stories and worlds, cooperative roleplay, was 50 bucks + zero/month.
GW: instanced stories, pvp arenas and games, was 50 bucks + zero/month.
DDO: instanced dungeons, cooperative play.... 50 bucks + 15/month ??
NWN is not an MMO...not even close. What would they charge monthly for???
Guild Wars holds zero interest for me, personally.
Semantics... definition of 'mmo' doesn't mean anything. Point is, NWN has continuous new content with roleplayers and some grouping/meeting others, user made items, worlds, stories, etc. SO if you are going to charge 15/mo, the 'something' you are charging for has to be more than that. DDO doesn't have that much more than nwn, and in some aspects, has less (i.e. no user-created content).
GW: it's fair I guess. I'm not trying to sell you on it... I don't play GW either. It's just that it has pvp games, and some story, and some grouping / questing.... DDO would need that, and a little more if they want to get away with charging 15/mo. Does DDO have pvp arenas/games/areas? Little wow-like battlefields?
What does DDO have that these other two games don't have? That would justify 15/mo? Granted, it looks better and plays smoother, but in regard to gameplay, I just don't see the justification... not in the same league with wow, eq2, lotro as far as immersion and world openness... not much better than nwn,gw...
TO get that true pnp feel, world needs to be open, and maybe some user-created content in some way.... don't know. The pnp game doesn't map to an mmo that well anyway, (as someone above already pointed out). It may be a no-win attempt to begin with...
NWN has user created content, user created persistent worlds. Who exactly would you pay for that? That's my point. There's no dev team working on polished releases on a 10 week schedule, doubling the content of the game over 18 months. There's no team maintaining servers for 50,000+ players all at once.
Personally, I like the combat system in DDO considerably more than NWN. I would like to see more skill/feat usage like in NWN, and more are used all the time.
Most importantly though, it's actually an MMO...and it's not semantics...NWN is not an MMO, it's never been an MMO, and it will most likely never be one.
Semantics... definition of 'mmo' doesn't mean anything. Point is, NWN has continuous new content with roleplayers and some grouping/meeting others, user made items, worlds, stories, etc. SO if you are going to charge 15/mo, the 'something' you are charging for has to be more than that. DDO doesn't have that much more than nwn, and in some aspects, has less (i.e. no user-created content).
GW: it's fair I guess. I'm not trying to sell you on it... I don't play GW either. It's just that it has pvp games, and some story, and some grouping / questing.... DDO would need that, and a little more if they want to get away with charging 15/mo. Does DDO have pvp arenas/games/areas? Little wow-like battlefields?
What does DDO have that these other two games don't have? That would justify 15/mo? Granted, it looks better and plays smoother, but in regard to gameplay, I just don't see the justification... not in the same league with wow, eq2, lotro as far as immersion and world openness... not much better than nwn,gw...
TO get that true pnp feel, world needs to be open, and maybe some user-created content in some way.... don't know. The pnp game doesn't map to an mmo that well anyway, (as someone above already pointed out). It may be a no-win attempt to begin with...
Regarding GW and DDO... (nwn was one of my worst gaming experineces, not commenting on that)
DDO has monthly subscribtion, but it has free content updates. GW has free monthly, but sells you expansion packs as content updates. While GW might be cheaper, you get more fr your money regarding content per month in DDO.
DDO have over GW? hmmm I dont know much about GW, so correct me if totally off base
My limited knowledge of GW gameplay is scary...maybe others can fill out more ..
Semantics... definition of 'mmo' doesn't mean anything. Point is, NWN has continuous new content with roleplayers and some grouping/meeting others, user made items, worlds, stories, etc. SO if you are going to charge 15/mo, the 'something' you are charging for has to be more than that. DDO doesn't have that much more than nwn, and in some aspects, has less (i.e. no user-created content).
GW: it's fair I guess. I'm not trying to sell you on it... I don't play GW either. It's just that it has pvp games, and some story, and some grouping / questing.... DDO would need that, and a little more if they want to get away with charging 15/mo. Does DDO have pvp arenas/games/areas? Little wow-like battlefields?
What does DDO have that these other two games don't have? That would justify 15/mo? Granted, it looks better and plays smoother, but in regard to gameplay, I just don't see the justification... not in the same league with wow, eq2, lotro as far as immersion and world openness... not much better than nwn,gw...
TO get that true pnp feel, world needs to be open, and maybe some user-created content in some way.... don't know. The pnp game doesn't map to an mmo that well anyway, (as someone above already pointed out). It may be a no-win attempt to begin with...
Regarding GW and DDO... (nwn was one of my worst gaming experineces, not commenting on that)
DDO has monthly subscribtion, but it has free content updates. GW has free monthly, but sells you expansion packs as content updates. While GW might be cheaper, you get more fr your money regarding content per month in DDO.
DDO have over GW? hmmm I dont know much about GW, so correct me if totally off base
My limited knowledge of GW gameplay is scary...maybe others can fill out more ..
I have bought 4 GW products at 50 x3 and 1x30 that comes out to $180.This is about the same as the iniitial purchase and 10 subsequent months in of subs in DDO. But it would also be over about 1.5 -2 years.
DDO has other more traditional things GW will never have such as an auction house and mail system. Of course GW has its own unique things that no MMORPG can do. Any GW player can play with any other, you need never worry about picking a server.
People like to say GW and DDO have the same model but they are wrong. GW has a unique structure and a unique purpose to its structure. The is shown by its serverless architecture.
EQ2 is completely instanced bit no ones says its the same as GW. DDO and EQ2 are probably much closer than DDO and GW. Expecet that DDO has free content and EQ2 has tons of expansions they sell.
Content wise GW has somewhat more PvE content for that price but also has the PvP content, which is the best match play on the market on the market.
Do you get more for your money? That depends. I just started DDO so currently I am getting a decent deal content wise because I wasn't paying while waiting for content, but if I had been paying since release I would say GW comes out ahead quite comfortably.
What I would actually say is the GW model is more fair, not necessarily cheaper. New DDO subscribers get a better deal than older players in a way. But in GW you pay for exactly what you use. There is no difference between old and new as far as expense.
So for new players keep in mind the older players have been subsidizing you and making DDO a better buy with each new Module
.
Thanks for the help...Nicely Summarized
DDO is a great game, no it isn't PnP, but it is DnD. The game itself is amazing, but just looking at the dev team's progress and commitment is enough for me to get my DDO sub back on its feet. I'm playing it as I type and let me tell you, it was totally worth it. No other MMO has dynamics like this, there aren't disable'able traps, boss battles that need complete cooperation with EVERY raid member. Strategy plays the biggest roll in DDO, not equipment. The community is outstanding, with mostly mature players. Permadeath is just another story. If you have played PD on PnP, you know what I'm talking about. The rush not to die just makes the game change, no 'twinking,' you are with a group that uses strategy more than swinging and you must all cooperate, if not, you are doomed.