to me thats perfect. swg was my epitome of perfect and that didnt have more than 2k maybe per server, and my home on valcyn was smaller, but it made the community that much better imho. 1-2k per server is ideal for me
SWG had about 5 times that many total subs though, if not more. What's ideal to you isn't necessarily ideal to the people who intend to make a profit on this game.
but as a consumer, what is ideal to me is what i buy the product for. Would you spend $XXX on an item you despise just because everyone else bought it?Every consumer item is made for a target consumer, it's the law of supply and demand. If one person has a need for a centrifuge, a company will make it, it does not mean the mass amount of people need it.
but as a consumer, what is ideal to me is what i buy the product for. Would you spend $XXX on an item you despise just because everyone else bought it?Every consumer item is made for a target consumer, it's the law of supply and demand. If one person has a need for a centrifuge, a company will make it, it does not mean the mass amount of people need it.
...huh? The point isn't that I think there should be more pops per server, it's that there needs to be more servers with that pop number. I don't think 50k subs at launch would be considered remotely successful for an MMO with this much time in development.
the point i was making is this is a niche game, and no....i think with 1-2k per serve, FLS will be financially well off. The game is not made to be the next wow killer. Far from it....but it does fill a role nicely for me as a consumer buying a product. so if the game only has 50k...so what? FLS will have money coming in, continue developement, etc. They don't have to pay anyone for the rights of the IP, they have a small/medium number of launch servers to keep their maintenance costs low.....etc.
No I ment 100.000 per server. The most important thing is that you have enough population server wise. Not how many alltogether it playing one game.
I'm pretty sure FLS and SOE would disagree with that as strongly as I would...
How many servers (in other mmos) do you usually play on, is it not enough for you that the server youre on is healthy? The game you enjoy must be the most popular one, or atleast be amongst the top ones.
Why even bother with what FLS thinks isn't it kind of moot thinking they would want just one or two servers running. Why would they not want many subscribers.
How many servers (in other mmos) do you usually play on, is it not enough for you that the server youre on is healthy? The game you enjoy must be the most popular one, or atleast be amongst the top ones.
Why even bother with what FLS thinks isn't it kind of moot thinking they would want just one or two servers running. Why would they not want many subscribers.
...I think you're now actually arguing with yourself. Yes, they would want many subscribers. 11 servers X 1000 players X 4 = 44,000 subs. This is what they said they are basing their calculations on for the number of servers at launch (the X 4 part).
No, I don't think a 40-50k sub launch will be considered remotely successful...by anyone...particularly SOE or FLS.
p.s. Most MMO's see a HUGE downspike from launch to 6 months later in number, BTW. There is zero room for that kind of drop off if you launch with 50k.
but as a consumer, what is ideal to me is what i buy the product for. Would you spend $XXX on an item you despise just because everyone else bought it?Every consumer item is made for a target consumer, it's the law of supply and demand. If one person has a need for a centrifuge, a company will make it, it does not mean the mass amount of people need it.
...huh? The point isn't that I think there should be more pops per server, it's that there needs to be more servers with that pop number. I don't think 50k subs at launch would be considered remotely successful for an MMO with this much time in development.
THat's not a consumer-end decision.
Time and amount of money.
As FLS have stated alot of times they have financed it sound, in some sence that can show pretty on the time it took to make the game.
Let's see.
I'm going to build something. I have two choices.
1. I borrow all the cash needed and can both start and be finished earlier.
2. I borrow less cash, and add some as time goes by, can start just as early but will finish later.
Both with same amount of work put into it but just different timelines. But financial more independent. Ofcourse both option will cost just as much, but just as with FLS, I have a option to selffinance it. In my case it would mean I can use money that I get from my paycheck.
Time and amount of money. As FLS have stated alot of times they have financed it sound, in some sence that can show pretty on the time it took to make the game.
Let's see. I'm going to build something. I have two choices. 1. I borrow all the cash needed and can both start and be finished earlier. 2. I borrow less cash, and add some as time goes by, can start just as early but will finish later. Both with same amount of work put into it but just different timelines. But financial more independent.
Time and amount of money. As FLS have stated alot of times they have financed it sound, in some sence that can show pretty on the time it took to make the game.
Let's see. I'm going to build something. I have two choices. 1. I borrow all the cash needed and can both start and be finished earlier. 2. I borrow less cash, and add some as time goes by, can start just as early but will finish later. Both with same amount of work put into it but just different timelines. But financial more independent.
...
So you are saying that FLS don't have it financial good even though they state it time after another?
So you are saying that FLS don't have it financial good even though they state it time after another?
...I'm saying that if POTBS launches with less than 100k subs, yes...that FLS doesn't have it financially good. Since all they've done so far is spend money on a project, they are doing so because of certain forecasts of income and sales...I believe that less than 100k subs at launch would be well under those forecasts.
How many servers (in other mmos) do you usually play on, is it not enough for you that the server youre on is healthy? The game you enjoy must be the most popular one, or atleast be amongst the top ones.
Why even bother with what FLS thinks isn't it kind of moot thinking they would want just one or two servers running. Why would they not want many subscribers.
...I think you're now actually arguing with yourself.
No...
Yes, they would want many subscribers.
Which is moot discussing, because why would they not.
So why would there be are reason think that is what I'm talking about?
Did I even mention something earlier about it. I was talking about something from my perspective. My perspective is serverwise, there is no reason to think otherwise.
11 servers X 1000 players X 4 = 44,000 subs. This is what they said they are basing their calculations on for the number of servers at launch (the X 4 part).
Ok... Great to know. Interesting. Hey, you have a nice weather out now?
No, I don't think a 40-50k sub launch will be considered remotely successful...by anyone...particularly SOE or FLS.
p.s. Most MMO's see a HUGE downspike from launch to 6 months later in number, BTW. There is zero room for that kind of drop off if you launch with 50k.
It's read between the lines. See what is not there. But also not that if something is stated is not equalling that it is so, not even equalling that it is not.
It still is enough with a healthy population on the server one is playing on. Why, would my gameplay suffer if there is server that is not healthy.
It still is enough with a healthy population on the server one is playing on. Why, would my gameplay suffer if there is server that is not healthy.
Because if the game isn't profitable overall, less money is spent on developing new content (if any at all), on employing GMs for in game assistance, on advertising (meaning it doesn't get better), etc. etc. etc.
And if it's really a losing proposition, your gameplay will become a memory all together...
So you are saying that FLS don't have it financial good even though they state it time after another?
...I'm saying that if POTBS launches with less than 100k subs, yes...that FLS doesn't have it financially good. Since all they've done so far is spend money on a project, they are doing so because of certain forecasts of income and sales...I believe that less than 100k subs at launch would be well under those forecasts.
Ofcourse they are doing this to make an income out of it. If they break even and earn money on 10k subscribers it is succesfull. If is a keyword there, note that I wrote it. It would imply that the random number I gave can be higher and even less. The numbers of subscribers they need is something that they know, not we, but they have been hinting that that do not need that many subs to break even and be succesfull.
Succesfull is not only compared to what subscriber base other games have.
And time put in is something else the time period it have been under development.
How many actual work hours are there in this game? It not that easy to just look at when did they start and when did they finish.
It still is enough with a healthy population on the server one is playing on. Why, would my gameplay suffer if there is server that is not healthy.
Because if the game isn't profitable overall, less money is spent on developing new content (if any at all), on employing GMs for in game assistance, on advertising (meaning it doesn't get better), etc. etc. etc.
And if it's really a losing proposition, your gameplay will become a memory all together...
I'd call that "suffering gameplay".
Is that not obvious?
But, sorry, I'm not up for writing more disclaimers.
If you think for even a moment that POTBS will be around with 10k subs, you're delusional. I think the number of servers at launch, compared with the dev stated formula for coming up with that number, indicates a serious lack of pre-order and interest in the game.
In this day and age, that can spell disaster. This game has been hyped to the hilt, been delayed, had a long dev cycle (read money spent), and, IMO, absolutely needs to deliver close to the 200k subs mark at launch to be considered a win.
If it launches with 50k, I hate to say it, but don't get too attached.
If you think for even a moment that POTBS will be around with 10k subs, you're delusional. I think the number of servers at launch, compared with the dev stated formula for coming up with that number, indicates a serious lack of pre-order and interest in the game. IF was a keyword. IF. I did not say that 10k would be the number for their. I took a low number intentionally to prove my point. If you missed my point, sorry. In this day and age, that can spell disaster. This game has been hyped to the hilt, been delayed, had a long dev cycle (read money spent), and, IMO, absolutely needs to deliver close to the 200k subs mark at launch to be considered a win. Long dev cycle (read money spent) ,the long dev cycle can be because they did not spend to much cash. For all what I know they can have this project running in someones living room the first years, time spent when they could. They could even have own saved money put into the project initially. Don't know about that. All I know is that they have stated they was selffinanced. Do you know?
If it launches with 50k, I hate to say it, but don't get too attached. You don't know what number they need to be succesfull.
Originally posted by Vincenz If you think for even a moment that POTBS will be around with 10k subs, you're delusional. I think the number of servers at launch, compared with the dev stated formula for coming up with that number, indicates a serious lack of pre-order and interest in the game.
In this day and age, that can spell disaster. This game has been hyped to the hilt, been delayed, had a long dev cycle (read money spent), and, IMO, absolutely needs to deliver close to the 200k subs mark at launch to be considered a win.
If it launches with 50k, I hate to say it, but don't get too attached.
First the formula they posted used made up numbers. They clearly stated that. We dont know the pre-order numbers. Second, if the game does only 50k, thats not bad as long as the numbers keep going up month by month, and not down. If the game is growing, it will be around for a while to come.
First the formula they posted used made up numbers. They clearly stated that. We dont know the pre-order numbers. Second, if the game does only 50k, thats not bad as long as the numbers keep going up month by month, and not down. If the game is growing, it will be around for a while to come.
Actually, they used MOSTLY made up numbers. They also used one "real" number (20-25% of online players average=total number of subs). Which is where I'm getting those numbers.
can i ask vicenz...does it really matter to you if people are playing a game they enjoy? how does it relate to you exactly. Your not going to play it, fine thats your right as a consumer....but why put down a game that the players of said games enjoy? whether it be wow, potbs, eq2, lotr, etc...does it really matter or affect you if someone enjoys a game in their past time?
can i ask vicenz...does it really matter to you if people are playing a game they enjoy? how does it relate to you exactly. Your not going to play it, fine thats your right as a consumer....but why put down a game that the players of said games enjoy? whether it be wow, potbs, eq2, lotr, etc...does it really matter or affect you if someone enjoys a game in their past time?
Because as a beta tester, I feel I can bring a perspective to the game for people coming to this forum for information prior to buying it. The same reason you're here talking about how good it is, attempting to convince others of the same.
Also, discussing games you've played is pretty much the entire purpose of this forum...see, it's a game forum, which dosen't mean a FAN forum.
Hope you see the difference.
A forum is a discussion...it's not a very interesting discussion if it's "I like POTBS a lot"..."oh no, I like it MORE!"..."OH NO, I LIKE IT MORE!"
ok...just wanted to make sure you werent some raging hate monger who was here cause you wanted your mmo to be the king of all.
Just frankly, i prefer to leave people alone. if they enjoy it, then great...if they don't i don't go out of my way to bash a game which i don't like...for the shear reason that i know my likes and dislikes differ from yours
ok...just wanted to make sure you werent some raging hate monger who was here cause you wanted your mmo to be the king of all.
Just frankly, i prefer to leave people alone. if they enjoy it, then great...if they don't i don't go out of my way to bash a game which i don't like...for the shear reason that i know my likes and dislikes differ from yours
You should do a better job reading posting history, I'm not bashing anything. I give, IMO, a pretty subjective but fair appraisal of it.
my likes are different then yours. So your fair objective opinion is differentthan mine. Is this game going to be the best mmo i ever played? no. is it good for me, being a change from elves and orcs? is it something different, sea based combat? Other than the avatar combat, i got no real complaints about the game. Avatar combat needs work, i agree....but would i tell someone NOT to buy this game or wow or eq2? No. Why? My opinion means jack when it comes to what a person likes. Only once did i let someone else opinion sway my purchase..that was when i tried wow...and thats 30 bucks i want want back (price i paid when i bought it). Noones opinions matter, no matter how many millions or how good a game is to one person, to another, might as well flush the money down a drain
my likes are different then yours. So your fair objective opinion is differentthan mine. Is this game going to be the best mmo i ever played? no. is it good for me, being a change from elves and orcs? is it something different, sea based combat? Other than the avatar combat, i got no real complaints about the game. Avatar combat needs work, i agree....but would i tell someone NOT to buy this game or wow or eq2? No. Why? My opinion means jack when it comes to what a person likes. Only once did i let someone else opinion sway my purchase..that was when i tried wow...and thats 30 bucks i want want back (price i paid when i bought it). Noones opinions matter, no matter how many millions or how good a game is to one person, to another, might as well flush the money down a drain
First of all, opinions aren't really objective...by definition. That's the whole point. Lots of people DO come here to read up on a game prior to purchase, and look for the good AND the bad from people who've played it. My posts are never "this game sucks" or "don't buy it", my posts are "this is what I didn't like...and here's why", with specifics.
In other words, the purpose of the forum in the first place.
Comments
SWG had about 5 times that many total subs though, if not more. What's ideal to you isn't necessarily ideal to the people who intend to make a profit on this game.
but as a consumer, what is ideal to me is what i buy the product for. Would you spend $XXX on an item you despise just because everyone else bought it?Every consumer item is made for a target consumer, it's the law of supply and demand. If one person has a need for a centrifuge, a company will make it, it does not mean the mass amount of people need it.
THat's not a consumer-end decision.
I'm pretty sure FLS and SOE would disagree with that as strongly as I would...
the point i was making is this is a niche game, and no....i think with 1-2k per serve, FLS will be financially well off. The game is not made to be the next wow killer. Far from it....but it does fill a role nicely for me as a consumer buying a product. so if the game only has 50k...so what? FLS will have money coming in, continue developement, etc. They don't have to pay anyone for the rights of the IP, they have a small/medium number of launch servers to keep their maintenance costs low.....etc.
I'm pretty sure FLS and SOE would disagree with that as strongly as I would...
How many servers (in other mmos) do you usually play on, is it not enough for you that the server youre on is healthy? The game you enjoy must be the most popular one, or atleast be amongst the top ones.
Why even bother with what FLS thinks isn't it kind of moot thinking they would want just one or two servers running. Why would they not want many subscribers.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
...I think you're now actually arguing with yourself. Yes, they would want many subscribers. 11 servers X 1000 players X 4 = 44,000 subs. This is what they said they are basing their calculations on for the number of servers at launch (the X 4 part).
No, I don't think a 40-50k sub launch will be considered remotely successful...by anyone...particularly SOE or FLS.
p.s. Most MMO's see a HUGE downspike from launch to 6 months later in number, BTW. There is zero room for that kind of drop off if you launch with 50k.
...huh? The point isn't that I think there should be more pops per server, it's that there needs to be more servers with that pop number. I don't think 50k subs at launch would be considered remotely successful for an MMO with this much time in development.THat's not a consumer-end decision.
Time and amount of money.
As FLS have stated alot of times they have financed it sound, in some sence that can show pretty on the time it took to make the game.
Let's see.
I'm going to build something. I have two choices.
1. I borrow all the cash needed and can both start and be finished earlier.
2. I borrow less cash, and add some as time goes by, can start just as early but will finish later.
Both with same amount of work put into it but just different timelines. But financial more independent. Ofcourse both option will cost just as much, but just as with FLS, I have a option to selffinance it. In my case it would mean I can use money that I get from my paycheck.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
...
...
So you are saying that FLS don't have it financial good even though they state it time after another?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
...I'm saying that if POTBS launches with less than 100k subs, yes...that FLS doesn't have it financially good. Since all they've done so far is spend money on a project, they are doing so because of certain forecasts of income and sales...I believe that less than 100k subs at launch would be well under those forecasts.
...I think you're now actually arguing with yourself.
No...
Yes, they would want many subscribers.
Which is moot discussing, because why would they not.
So why would there be are reason think that is what I'm talking about?
Did I even mention something earlier about it. I was talking about something from my perspective. My perspective is serverwise, there is no reason to think otherwise.
11 servers X 1000 players X 4 = 44,000 subs. This is what they said they are basing their calculations on for the number of servers at launch (the X 4 part).
Ok... Great to know. Interesting. Hey, you have a nice weather out now?No, I don't think a 40-50k sub launch will be considered remotely successful...by anyone...particularly SOE or FLS.
p.s. Most MMO's see a HUGE downspike from launch to 6 months later in number, BTW. There is zero room for that kind of drop off if you launch with 50k.
It's read between the lines. See what is not there. But also not that if something is stated is not equalling that it is so, not even equalling that it is not.
It still is enough with a healthy population on the server one is playing on. Why, would my gameplay suffer if there is server that is not healthy.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Because if the game isn't profitable overall, less money is spent on developing new content (if any at all), on employing GMs for in game assistance, on advertising (meaning it doesn't get better), etc. etc. etc.
And if it's really a losing proposition, your gameplay will become a memory all together...
I'd call that "suffering gameplay".
...I'm saying that if POTBS launches with less than 100k subs, yes...that FLS doesn't have it financially good. Since all they've done so far is spend money on a project, they are doing so because of certain forecasts of income and sales...I believe that less than 100k subs at launch would be well under those forecasts.
Ofcourse they are doing this to make an income out of it. If they break even and earn money on 10k subscribers it is succesfull. If is a keyword there, note that I wrote it. It would imply that the random number I gave can be higher and even less. The numbers of subscribers they need is something that they know, not we, but they have been hinting that that do not need that many subs to break even and be succesfull.
Succesfull is not only compared to what subscriber base other games have.
And time put in is something else the time period it have been under development.
How many actual work hours are there in this game? It not that easy to just look at when did they start and when did they finish.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Because if the game isn't profitable overall, less money is spent on developing new content (if any at all), on employing GMs for in game assistance, on advertising (meaning it doesn't get better), etc. etc. etc.
And if it's really a losing proposition, your gameplay will become a memory all together...
I'd call that "suffering gameplay".
Is that not obvious?
But, sorry, I'm not up for writing more disclaimers.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
If you think for even a moment that POTBS will be around with 10k subs, you're delusional. I think the number of servers at launch, compared with the dev stated formula for coming up with that number, indicates a serious lack of pre-order and interest in the game.
In this day and age, that can spell disaster. This game has been hyped to the hilt, been delayed, had a long dev cycle (read money spent), and, IMO, absolutely needs to deliver close to the 200k subs mark at launch to be considered a win.
If it launches with 50k, I hate to say it, but don't get too attached.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
First the formula they posted used made up numbers. They clearly stated that. We dont know the pre-order numbers. Second, if the game does only 50k, thats not bad as long as the numbers keep going up month by month, and not down. If the game is growing, it will be around for a while to come.
First the formula they posted used made up numbers. They clearly stated that. We dont know the pre-order numbers. Second, if the game does only 50k, thats not bad as long as the numbers keep going up month by month, and not down. If the game is growing, it will be around for a while to come.
Actually, they used MOSTLY made up numbers. They also used one "real" number (20-25% of online players average=total number of subs). Which is where I'm getting those numbers.
can i ask vicenz...does it really matter to you if people are playing a game they enjoy? how does it relate to you exactly. Your not going to play it, fine thats your right as a consumer....but why put down a game that the players of said games enjoy? whether it be wow, potbs, eq2, lotr, etc...does it really matter or affect you if someone enjoys a game in their past time?
Because as a beta tester, I feel I can bring a perspective to the game for people coming to this forum for information prior to buying it. The same reason you're here talking about how good it is, attempting to convince others of the same.
Also, discussing games you've played is pretty much the entire purpose of this forum...see, it's a game forum, which dosen't mean a FAN forum.
Hope you see the difference.
A forum is a discussion...it's not a very interesting discussion if it's "I like POTBS a lot"..."oh no, I like it MORE!"..."OH NO, I LIKE IT MORE!"
ok...just wanted to make sure you werent some raging hate monger who was here cause you wanted your mmo to be the king of all.
Just frankly, i prefer to leave people alone. if they enjoy it, then great...if they don't i don't go out of my way to bash a game which i don't like...for the shear reason that i know my likes and dislikes differ from yours
You should do a better job reading posting history, I'm not bashing anything. I give, IMO, a pretty subjective but fair appraisal of it.
my likes are different then yours. So your fair objective opinion is differentthan mine. Is this game going to be the best mmo i ever played? no. is it good for me, being a change from elves and orcs? is it something different, sea based combat? Other than the avatar combat, i got no real complaints about the game. Avatar combat needs work, i agree....but would i tell someone NOT to buy this game or wow or eq2? No. Why? My opinion means jack when it comes to what a person likes. Only once did i let someone else opinion sway my purchase..that was when i tried wow...and thats 30 bucks i want want back (price i paid when i bought it). Noones opinions matter, no matter how many millions or how good a game is to one person, to another, might as well flush the money down a drain
First of all, opinions aren't really objective...by definition. That's the whole point. Lots of people DO come here to read up on a game prior to purchase, and look for the good AND the bad from people who've played it. My posts are never "this game sucks" or "don't buy it", my posts are "this is what I didn't like...and here's why", with specifics.
In other words, the purpose of the forum in the first place.