I believe treadmill games will have a larger market share than non-treadmill games for at least two decades, then it will decline. The reason I suspect it will decline is probably too complex to address fully, but I will simply state that it will involve several factors in relation to technology, social reaction to it, and the ultimate synthesis of man and 'his' machines. -- Brede
Aw, come on. Throw some ideas out there. The threads about 5 posts away from degenerating into the usual flame fest anyway...
Im not an MMO developer (obviously) and Im not an MMO expert, but there are two reasons why I feel like the market will eventually move towards the "non-treadmill" games.
Technology. Like you said. Eventually, the tech will be there and VWs and sandbox games wont be nearly as demanding to create.
Niches. Sandbox style MMOs or VWs can have MANY niches for players to settle into. This means, IMO, that a solid sandbox MMO could attract all types of players, since theres plenty of things to do other than combat.
MMOs have improved in graphics and UI but i feel that they have actually degressed in gameplay.
Like someone else said, in 2000 you pretty much had 3 good games to choose from, all three were different and really catered to a different play style. Now you have lots of games that are all the same and try to cater to everyone (Badly).
I was of the EQ variety but perhaps i will try subbing to UO or AC and see if i like them. I cant bring myself to go back to EQ, it is a sad shadow of what it was.
MMORPGs haven't evolved an inch in ten years. The same mechanics we all hated then are the sames one we all hate now. This genre is completely dead in terms of evolution.
I am not going to take the time to read all of the responses to this post but I am compelled to respond myself. I am of the opinion that a lot has changed in the last 10 years.
* Gone are the days of 2D graphics.
* Gone are the days of camping spawns just to get XP (a la EQ).
* Gone are the days of "WTF do I do now?!"
* Gone are the days of horrible travel mechanics where you had to run everywhere. God that was aweful.
In the last 10 years I have seen the following developments in MMOs that make the genre better:
* Quest hubs
* Sophisticated raiding
* Better means of transportation
* Instancing (I know some ppl dont like it but i love it)
* WAY BETTER graphics
* Auction Houses (Honestly I liked the player controlled vendors in UO better)
* Ability to handle large numbers of people in one area (remember portal storms in AC?! HAH)
I have to admit that the new school games are easier to play IMO. I like the direction the genre is headed. You have to take into consideration the fact that there are SO MANY MMOs these days and many of them are horrible. That being said, I share the sentiment of boredom at this point. Honestly, I am glad that I don't have the insatiable need to game anymore. It has given me the opportunity to get reacquainted with other aspects of life. Reflecting back on these last 10 years I have to make an unfortunate confession: the most exciting moment of my MMO career was my first Nefarian kill. .... Stupid WoW.
Anyway, I have recently been able to stamp out my boredom with Tabula Rasa. I went into the game with no expectations and have found the game highly entertaining. Maybe your problem is that you haven't found a game that suites you? With all the top notch games coming up, you should be able to find something you like...
That I'll never believe! I grew up on that stuff and will always love ther 2D games more because there is no emphesis on all the animations that 3d requires to make ppl happy these days! Look at all the complaints against LOTRO animations when its just their style of animations they chose to use!
I'm currently designing and building a 2D MMO, and the ideas I've been tossing around to friends and ppl I meet while playing LOTRO and other MMOs are astounded by what I've designed and created. There is no spending months leading to yrs working on char models and landscape! Overall I have a ton more time working on the design, style and most of all the content and mechanics!
If the content is there regardless of the game being 2D ppl will play it! So no I don't think 2D will ever go away...
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
It's kinda hard to go anywhere when you're chained to a treadmill.... BTW, UO is just as much of a treadmill as anything else out there. The difference is that you get more of a choice between treadmills.
hehe someone necro'd this thread from the abyss but since its alive with fresh comments again:
I believe all games could easily be perceived as a treadmill. One may suggest that one of the points of gaming is to emmerse one self in an illusion. Players start crying about grind (myself included) when the veil is too thin. The fact that the same veil has been reused for a decade means it does not take long, at all, for serialized content to get stale. I beleive its called the law of diminishing returns.
Developers need to stop embracing the serialization of their content and look for ways to make it more "believeable". Suspension of disbelief only goes so far!
(What I mean by serialization is the the idea of repetition of content such as kill 10 red snakes at lvl 14 and kil 40 brown snakes at lvl 50, lame quest hubs where 15 static mobs with a ! over their head have 25 stupid tasks each. GO HERO! Get me some rat meat!)
10 years ago MMO developers had a goal of creating a living breathing virtual fantasy universe. Todays MMO developers have a goal of recreating single player RPG's in team enviroment. Call me crazy but. But even the modern developers goals have taken a huge step back
This is the truth.
Games feel like stepping into the shoes of Gordon Freeman of Black Mesa now.. and you have a chat box so you wont feel all alone
I have been playing MMOs for almost 10 years now. I have to admit Im not as exited now as I was first time I started playing these kinda games - even tho they were a lot more simplistic than they are now. And the graphics were.. well
But tbh - thats not what MMos are about. You can have the best looking MMO in the world with the 100% MMO system but it still would be crap if not for the basic of stability - "buggfree" and fair gameplay. These factors can simply ruin the long term enjoyment of playing MMO and then its really isn't worth it anymore.
So what is a MMO ?
For me it is a long storydriven journey for a character through years of gameplay. Character that makes and lives with the diffrent disissions he makes and keeps improving - evolving and strenthening. This to me is MMO- RPG. Its not like normal RPGs where you log in and play one character one way and next day u play the same character another way. But sadly .... more and more MMOs are failing in this basic of playing.
More and more games come out where u are forced to play multiple characters cause the content isn't strong enough. Or you are forced to switch to new character class to enjoy something diffrent. You would think that games like WoW would be able to maintain exiting gameplay for current characters but instead - they are creating a new class and spent the whole Blizzcon explaining it. But at the same time did not spend one min into what the future was holding for the longterm players focusing on their current character/s.
Same goes for LOTRO - Two diffrent systems for PVE and PVP - meaning two diffrent stories of character/s- that btw is not bad on its own. It prevents the huge mistakes now happening in WoW where the devs have screwed everything up by connecting PVP and PVE through talents - but at the same time build two diffrent system based on items. That leads directly to a game where one aspect is suffering for the other. Where a person in PVP content is having for suffer for some PVE abilities and wise versa. It wont get much worse than that.
Im personally loosing more and more intrest in the MMORPG genre. Cause basicly its no longer providing me with the core of what Im after. At the same time it leads to less enjoyment - and then its better to spend your money on something diffrent if you find it more fun.
That I'll never believe! I grew up on that stuff and will always love ther 2D games more because there is no emphesis on all the animations that 3d requires to make ppl happy these days! Look at all the complaints against LOTRO animations when its just their style of animations they chose to use!
I'm currently designing and building a 2D MMO, and the ideas I've been tossing around to friends and ppl I meet while playing LOTRO and other MMOs are astounded by what I've designed and created. There is no spending months leading to yrs working on char models and landscape! Overall I have a ton more time working on the design, style and most of all the content and mechanics!
If the content is there regardless of the game being 2D ppl will play it! So no I don't think 2D will ever go away...
I stand corrected. I have even dabbled with Dungeon Runners recently. When I was writing that post I was thinking about the cutting edge mass market games like Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Chronicles of the Spellborn, (was going to but PotBS) etc. etc. I don't think it would be going on a limb to say that the 2D niche is fading into obscurity.
Comments
Aw, come on. Throw some ideas out there. The threads about 5 posts away from degenerating into the usual flame fest anyway...
Im not an MMO developer (obviously) and Im not an MMO expert, but there are two reasons why I feel like the market will eventually move towards the "non-treadmill" games.
Technology. Like you said. Eventually, the tech will be there and VWs and sandbox games wont be nearly as demanding to create.
Niches. Sandbox style MMOs or VWs can have MANY niches for players to settle into. This means, IMO, that a solid sandbox MMO could attract all types of players, since theres plenty of things to do other than combat.
I add my agreement to the OPs post.
MMOs have improved in graphics and UI but i feel that they have actually degressed in gameplay.
Like someone else said, in 2000 you pretty much had 3 good games to choose from, all three were different and really catered to a different play style. Now you have lots of games that are all the same and try to cater to everyone (Badly).
I was of the EQ variety but perhaps i will try subbing to UO or AC and see if i like them. I cant bring myself to go back to EQ, it is a sad shadow of what it was.
Anyone knows if there were leveling bots 10years ago? I think we can put that under the "evolution of MMO"
Contest deadline extended to 31 October 2008 ! Just take screenshots and be in the run to win free account key !
MMORPGs haven't evolved an inch in ten years. The same mechanics we all hated then are the sames one we all hate now. This genre is completely dead in terms of evolution.
I am not going to take the time to read all of the responses to this post but I am compelled to respond myself. I am of the opinion that a lot has changed in the last 10 years.
* Gone are the days of 2D graphics.
* Gone are the days of camping spawns just to get XP (a la EQ).
* Gone are the days of "WTF do I do now?!"
* Gone are the days of horrible travel mechanics where you had to run everywhere. God that was aweful.
In the last 10 years I have seen the following developments in MMOs that make the genre better:
* Quest hubs
* Sophisticated raiding
* Better means of transportation
* Instancing (I know some ppl dont like it but i love it)
* WAY BETTER graphics
* Auction Houses (Honestly I liked the player controlled vendors in UO better)
* Ability to handle large numbers of people in one area (remember portal storms in AC?! HAH)
I have to admit that the new school games are easier to play IMO. I like the direction the genre is headed. You have to take into consideration the fact that there are SO MANY MMOs these days and many of them are horrible. That being said, I share the sentiment of boredom at this point. Honestly, I am glad that I don't have the insatiable need to game anymore. It has given me the opportunity to get reacquainted with other aspects of life. Reflecting back on these last 10 years I have to make an unfortunate confession: the most exciting moment of my MMO career was my first Nefarian kill. .... Stupid WoW.
Anyway, I have recently been able to stamp out my boredom with Tabula Rasa. I went into the game with no expectations and have found the game highly entertaining. Maybe your problem is that you haven't found a game that suites you? With all the top notch games coming up, you should be able to find something you like...
This far ...
http://www.gamespot.com/video/extras/ageofconan.html?sid=6183956
http://pc.ign.com/articles/870/870119p1.html
That I'll never believe! I grew up on that stuff and will always love ther 2D games more because there is no emphesis on all the animations that 3d requires to make ppl happy these days! Look at all the complaints against LOTRO animations when its just their style of animations they chose to use!
I'm currently designing and building a 2D MMO, and the ideas I've been tossing around to friends and ppl I meet while playing LOTRO and other MMOs are astounded by what I've designed and created. There is no spending months leading to yrs working on char models and landscape! Overall I have a ton more time working on the design, style and most of all the content and mechanics!
If the content is there regardless of the game being 2D ppl will play it! So no I don't think 2D will ever go away...
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
I believe all games could easily be perceived as a treadmill. One may suggest that one of the points of gaming is to emmerse one self in an illusion. Players start crying about grind (myself included) when the veil is too thin. The fact that the same veil has been reused for a decade means it does not take long, at all, for serialized content to get stale. I beleive its called the law of diminishing returns.
Developers need to stop embracing the serialization of their content and look for ways to make it more "believeable". Suspension of disbelief only goes so far!
(What I mean by serialization is the the idea of repetition of content such as kill 10 red snakes at lvl 14 and kil 40 brown snakes at lvl 50, lame quest hubs where 15 static mobs with a ! over their head have 25 stupid tasks each. GO HERO! Get me some rat meat!)
Games feel like stepping into the shoes of Gordon Freeman of Black Mesa now.. and you have a chat box so you wont feel all alone
I have been playing MMOs for almost 10 years now. I have to admit Im not as exited now as I was first time I started playing these kinda games - even tho they were a lot more simplistic than they are now. And the graphics were.. well
But tbh - thats not what MMos are about. You can have the best looking MMO in the world with the 100% MMO system but it still would be crap if not for the basic of stability - "buggfree" and fair gameplay. These factors can simply ruin the long term enjoyment of playing MMO and then its really isn't worth it anymore.
So what is a MMO ?
For me it is a long storydriven journey for a character through years of gameplay. Character that makes and lives with the diffrent disissions he makes and keeps improving - evolving and strenthening. This to me is MMO- RPG. Its not like normal RPGs where you log in and play one character one way and next day u play the same character another way. But sadly .... more and more MMOs are failing in this basic of playing.
More and more games come out where u are forced to play multiple characters cause the content isn't strong enough. Or you are forced to switch to new character class to enjoy something diffrent. You would think that games like WoW would be able to maintain exiting gameplay for current characters but instead - they are creating a new class and spent the whole Blizzcon explaining it. But at the same time did not spend one min into what the future was holding for the longterm players focusing on their current character/s.
Same goes for LOTRO - Two diffrent systems for PVE and PVP - meaning two diffrent stories of character/s- that btw is not bad on its own. It prevents the huge mistakes now happening in WoW where the devs have screwed everything up by connecting PVP and PVE through talents - but at the same time build two diffrent system based on items. That leads directly to a game where one aspect is suffering for the other. Where a person in PVP content is having for suffer for some PVE abilities and wise versa. It wont get much worse than that.
Im personally loosing more and more intrest in the MMORPG genre. Cause basicly its no longer providing me with the core of what Im after. At the same time it leads to less enjoyment - and then its better to spend your money on something diffrent if you find it more fun.
That I'll never believe! I grew up on that stuff and will always love ther 2D games more because there is no emphesis on all the animations that 3d requires to make ppl happy these days! Look at all the complaints against LOTRO animations when its just their style of animations they chose to use!
I'm currently designing and building a 2D MMO, and the ideas I've been tossing around to friends and ppl I meet while playing LOTRO and other MMOs are astounded by what I've designed and created. There is no spending months leading to yrs working on char models and landscape! Overall I have a ton more time working on the design, style and most of all the content and mechanics!
If the content is there regardless of the game being 2D ppl will play it! So no I don't think 2D will ever go away...
I stand corrected. I have even dabbled with Dungeon Runners recently. When I was writing that post I was thinking about the cutting edge mass market games like Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Warhammer, Chronicles of the Spellborn, (was going to but PotBS) etc. etc. I don't think it would be going on a limb to say that the 2D niche is fading into obscurity.
The big problem nowadays is that games reward you too easily and players want to be rewarded for less effort or skill.
In the past reward was harder to obtain and therefore felt like you actually achieved something, it
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.