They beta testers aren't being "ignored", they're just being told that changing the game at this point beyond minor adjustments is out of the question.
Funcom is more interested is just getting technical aspects worked out, not so much general comments about how the game map feels to small and how there are too many zones and instances.
I think this is a very good thing. This doesn't make crafting "easier" so much as it makes it "less needlessly aggravating."
Maybe easier isn't the right word then. Maybe something like "needless" is better.
There's just no challenge in the crafting process from what I've seen, other than perhaps getting better socketed jewels to make the more advanced items.
Gathering the resources looks pretty needlessly aggravating though. Seems like you're still going to be harvesting over and over again until you get the special rare drop.
I predict that because the crafting process is so easy, there will be many players who make characters just to craft for themselves, thereby removing any need for players to interact with each other in the long run.
Funcom has already said that players should be able to get to the max level within a few weeks. Seems like it wouldn't take too much effort just to make a character for every crafting class.
And yes, I'm aware you have to be level 40 to start crafting. That's still not going to take people very long.
They beta testers aren't being "ignored", they're just being told that changing the game at this point beyond minor adjustments is out of the question. Funcom is more interested is just getting technical aspects worked out, not so much general comments about how the game map feels to small and how there are too many zones and instances.
Stop scaring me. I like open worlds without a lot of zones and instances.
They beta testers aren't being "ignored", they're just being told that changing the game at this point beyond minor adjustments is out of the question. Funcom is more interested is just getting technical aspects worked out, not so much general comments about how the game map feels to small and how there are too many zones and instances.
Stop scaring me. I like open worlds without a lot of zones and instances.
Don't be scared. There's lots of assuming going on in the communities right now. Much much much assuming and little little facts.
And yes, that goes for almost all games which are currently in development.
Originally posted by Zorvan By typing, you already have broken that NDA. Why stop now? FC needs to start booting some "testers", I think.
I haven't broken anything. I haven't said anything one way or another. Now YOU'RE assuming.
Funcom needs to do a lot of things, booting people would eat up time better spent on making a lot of positive changes.
I don't understand the anger generated on this particular forum in regards to beta testers giving information out. It's happening all over the place. Nothing I've said on these forums hasn't already been posted on either forums that my AoC guild uses, or even on the main AoC forums themselves at some point in time. Much of it is also available from official videos from online news agencies that Funcom has officially sanctioned.
In other words, the information is already out there. I'm just repeating what's already been said. You can take that information and do what you will. I'm just making sure that people have the opportunity to make the most informed opinion possible.
But lets be clear here. I've pre-ordered and fully payed for the $90 collector's edition of AoC. I'm not trying to derail this game. That would just be stupid. I want AoC to be successful. What I absolutely don't want is for people to go into the game eyes wide shut and arms wide open, and then suddenly find themselves out 50-90 dollars only to return here or to other forums and start talking about what a horrible experience they had, further harming the population of the game.
That's why I shared that little piece of info about zones and instances with the individual above.
As much as we want people to get their own informed opinion, no one likes to spend money and regret it later.
I think this is a very good thing. This doesn't make crafting "easier" so much as it makes it "less needlessly aggravating."
Maybe easier isn't the right word then. Maybe something like "needless" is better.
There's just no challenge in the crafting process from what I've seen, other than perhaps getting better socketed jewels to make the more advanced items.
Gathering the resources looks pretty needlessly aggravating though. Seems like you're still going to be harvesting over and over again until you get the special rare drop.
I predict that because the crafting process is so easy, there will be many players who make characters just to craft for themselves, thereby removing any need for players to interact with each other in the long run.
Funcom has already said that players should be able to get to the max level within a few weeks. Seems like it wouldn't take too much effort just to make a character for every crafting class.
And yes, I'm aware you have to be level 40 to start crafting. That's still not going to take people very long.
Your points are valid but there is no rule how crafting has to be. Crafting can be a major and social part of a game, but it doesnt have to. The points you mentioned are the same people wanted from EQ2 devs and Vanguard devs.
Crafting can be extremely useful without the points you mentioned. The crafting process doesnt have to be challanging or anything to make crafting useful and fun. In SoR crafting was one click but ruled the game. Socketed Items bring D2 to mind. Ever played D2 hardcore ? There was no crafting process, but players where able to customize their charaters. Crafting was so "easy" that people created special armor for special encounters. It is about strategy and not about grind, socializing or getting filthy rich. Crafting has to be a tool to support you.
Sure, carfting can be a full game. Ever played the trial island of ATITD ? This is probably crafters heaven and close to perfect. However, this is not how it will be in AoC. According to Avery crafting is the wildcard and not there for its own sake. That doesnt make it bad, just different.
Look at Vanguard. The crafting is a hell of grind, you need a workstation, faction, tools and crafter cloth. The process is long and partly annoying like hell. Some call it even challanging. However, once you are through the pain and capped the crafting is nothing special. Not the crafting rules the game but the catalyst. Catalysts == Gems in AoC. So why go though the silly pain when its just a useless timesink ?
Avery also mentioned four layers of equipment. I am not exactly sure what this means. Is it to change through four sets or is it really four layers like panties->tunic->leather protectors->robe ? However, both means there is a huge demand on items. Since you cant remove jewels you need a new piece of armor once you find an extraordinary gem and your old piece is full with common gems.
Really i see and understand your points. I call myself a crafter and i would be happy to see a logic crafting like ATITD has in an adventuring mmo. But different approaches to crafting can be fun as well.
Part of the fun for me is getting through a challenge, and it's quite clear that AoC's crafting process will be a mixture of the tedious (harvesting over and over to get a rare) and the unrewarding (few items to make, easy to learn and easy to master).
As I've talked about before, I want to play MMOs for longer than a couple of months, and it everything is just sounding so easy to me.
The game is rated for adults, and I was hoping for a more adult play style with the rating.
Originally posted by Fion That proves they do listen. As do other things in other forums.
Yes, they DO listen. And as I've said above, testers aren't being ignored, they're just being told that overhauling the whole system just simply won't work, and only incremental changes would be possible.
If I thought Funcom wasn't interested in listening to people, I wouldn't have bothered with the game at all.
My main issue though is that there are large issues (like zoning and instancing) that testers are screaming about, but are being told that the system really can't be altered to be more seamless and less zoning intensive.
Thankyou Avery! This has really helped me understand how the crafting is going to work, it has been one of the things that I have had little info on. So it has helped alot.
I am really looking forward to your next post on questing. Looks like you have done a awsome job in getting down all that info too.
I think this is a very good thing. This doesn't make crafting "easier" so much as it makes it "less needlessly aggravating."
Maybe easier isn't the right word then. Maybe something like "needless" is better.
There's just no challenge in the crafting process from what I've seen, other than perhaps getting better socketed jewels to make the more advanced items.
Gathering the resources looks pretty needlessly aggravating though. Seems like you're still going to be harvesting over and over again until you get the special rare drop.
I predict that because the crafting process is so easy, there will be many players who make characters just to craft for themselves, thereby removing any need for players to interact with each other in the long run.
Funcom has already said that players should be able to get to the max level within a few weeks. Seems like it wouldn't take too much effort just to make a character for every crafting class.
And yes, I'm aware you have to be level 40 to start crafting. That's still not going to take people very long.
I more meant that you don't need to go somewhere to craft. The reason I can't play WoW is because you spend 80% of your time running around from one place to the other. It sounds like in AoC at least once you have all the stuff you can just craft, which is a step in the right direction imho.
We adventurers have been held hostage to crafters since the days of DAoC and onward. Does crafting have to be in every puking game? Just once I'd like to see a true adventure game that doesn't make people depend on crafting or raiding.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Avery, thank you very much. Once again, you are bringing us information. Once again, Funcom has failed to provide us with a Crafting update. While I enjoyed your read on the update, it is not the same as coming from the devs. Yes, I enjoyed reading a gamers take on the crafting system, but I want to know what the devs were thinking and where we are headed with crafting. It isn't a slight on you, Avery. You do great work. This is just another huge let down on the part of Funcom. They promised an update and they failed to deliver.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
We adventurers have been held hostage to crafters since the days of DAoC and onward. Does crafting have to be in every puking game? Just once I'd like to see a true adventure game that doesn't make people depend on crafting or raiding.
There are thousands of them, and they are available in great quantities at your local best buy and game stop.
You can beat them in a few hours as well, further removing the need for you to interact with other players.
I more meant that you don't need to go somewhere to craft. The reason I can't play WoW is because you spend 80% of your time running around from one place to the other. It sounds like in AoC at least once you have all the stuff you can just craft, which is a step in the right direction imho.
For most things in WoW, you can do just that, you just have to have the right crafting tool in your inventory. That at least gives a small amount of legitimacy to what you're doing.
You're still going to be running around a lot in AoC just to gather resources.
Maybe it's just my generation, but it just seems like with the release of every new game, everyone wants to get as much reward with as little effort as possible.
Then again, WoW has 10 million active subscriptions right now. So clearly most people don't mind having to do a little running around to gather resources.
Comments
Thanks for your report, Avery--great job!
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
I think this is a very good thing. This doesn't make crafting "easier" so much as it makes it "less needlessly aggravating."
They beta testers aren't being "ignored", they're just being told that changing the game at this point beyond minor adjustments is out of the question.
Funcom is more interested is just getting technical aspects worked out, not so much general comments about how the game map feels to small and how there are too many zones and instances.
Maybe easier isn't the right word then. Maybe something like "needless" is better.
There's just no challenge in the crafting process from what I've seen, other than perhaps getting better socketed jewels to make the more advanced items.
Gathering the resources looks pretty needlessly aggravating though. Seems like you're still going to be harvesting over and over again until you get the special rare drop.
I predict that because the crafting process is so easy, there will be many players who make characters just to craft for themselves, thereby removing any need for players to interact with each other in the long run.
Funcom has already said that players should be able to get to the max level within a few weeks. Seems like it wouldn't take too much effort just to make a character for every crafting class.
And yes, I'm aware you have to be level 40 to start crafting. That's still not going to take people very long.
Stop scaring me. I like open worlds without a lot of zones and instances.
Stop scaring me. I like open worlds without a lot of zones and instances.
Don't be scared. There's lots of assuming going on in the communities right now. Much much much assuming and little little facts.And yes, that goes for almost all games which are currently in development.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I wish it was an assumption.
That's absolutely not what AoC is.
Be prepared for many different zones and instances within those zones.
How do you want me to prove it without breaking a certain NDA?
How do you want me to prove it without breaking a certain NDA?
By typing, you already have broken that NDA. Why stop now? FC needs to start booting some "testers", I think.
I haven't broken anything. I haven't said anything one way or another. Now YOU'RE assuming.
Funcom needs to do a lot of things, booting people would eat up time better spent on making a lot of positive changes.
I don't understand the anger generated on this particular forum in regards to beta testers giving information out. It's happening all over the place. Nothing I've said on these forums hasn't already been posted on either forums that my AoC guild uses, or even on the main AoC forums themselves at some point in time. Much of it is also available from official videos from online news agencies that Funcom has officially sanctioned.
In other words, the information is already out there. I'm just repeating what's already been said. You can take that information and do what you will. I'm just making sure that people have the opportunity to make the most informed opinion possible.
But lets be clear here. I've pre-ordered and fully payed for the $90 collector's edition of AoC. I'm not trying to derail this game. That would just be stupid. I want AoC to be successful. What I absolutely don't want is for people to go into the game eyes wide shut and arms wide open, and then suddenly find themselves out 50-90 dollars only to return here or to other forums and start talking about what a horrible experience they had, further harming the population of the game.
That's why I shared that little piece of info about zones and instances with the individual above.
As much as we want people to get their own informed opinion, no one likes to spend money and regret it later.
Maybe easier isn't the right word then. Maybe something like "needless" is better.
There's just no challenge in the crafting process from what I've seen, other than perhaps getting better socketed jewels to make the more advanced items.
Gathering the resources looks pretty needlessly aggravating though. Seems like you're still going to be harvesting over and over again until you get the special rare drop.
I predict that because the crafting process is so easy, there will be many players who make characters just to craft for themselves, thereby removing any need for players to interact with each other in the long run.
Funcom has already said that players should be able to get to the max level within a few weeks. Seems like it wouldn't take too much effort just to make a character for every crafting class.
And yes, I'm aware you have to be level 40 to start crafting. That's still not going to take people very long.
Your points are valid but there is no rule how crafting has to be. Crafting can be a major and social part of a game, but it doesnt have to. The points you mentioned are the same people wanted from EQ2 devs and Vanguard devs.
Crafting can be extremely useful without the points you mentioned. The crafting process doesnt have to be challanging or anything to make crafting useful and fun. In SoR crafting was one click but ruled the game. Socketed Items bring D2 to mind. Ever played D2 hardcore ? There was no crafting process, but players where able to customize their charaters. Crafting was so "easy" that people created special armor for special encounters. It is about strategy and not about grind, socializing or getting filthy rich. Crafting has to be a tool to support you.
Sure, carfting can be a full game. Ever played the trial island of ATITD ? This is probably crafters heaven and close to perfect. However, this is not how it will be in AoC. According to Avery crafting is the wildcard and not there for its own sake. That doesnt make it bad, just different.
Look at Vanguard. The crafting is a hell of grind, you need a workstation, faction, tools and crafter cloth. The process is long and partly annoying like hell. Some call it even challanging. However, once you are through the pain and capped the crafting is nothing special. Not the crafting rules the game but the catalyst. Catalysts == Gems in AoC. So why go though the silly pain when its just a useless timesink ?
Avery also mentioned four layers of equipment. I am not exactly sure what this means. Is it to change through four sets or is it really four layers like panties->tunic->leather protectors->robe ? However, both means there is a huge demand on items. Since you cant remove jewels you need a new piece of armor once you find an extraordinary gem and your old piece is full with common gems.
Really i see and understand your points. I call myself a crafter and i would be happy to see a logic crafting like ATITD has in an adventuring mmo. But different approaches to crafting can be fun as well.
Part of the fun for me is getting through a challenge, and it's quite clear that AoC's crafting process will be a mixture of the tedious (harvesting over and over to get a rare) and the unrewarding (few items to make, easy to learn and easy to master).
As I've talked about before, I want to play MMOs for longer than a couple of months, and it everything is just sounding so easy to me.
The game is rated for adults, and I was hoping for a more adult play style with the rating.
Yes, they DO listen. And as I've said above, testers aren't being ignored, they're just being told that overhauling the whole system just simply won't work, and only incremental changes would be possible.
If I thought Funcom wasn't interested in listening to people, I wouldn't have bothered with the game at all.
My main issue though is that there are large issues (like zoning and instancing) that testers are screaming about, but are being told that the system really can't be altered to be more seamless and less zoning intensive.
Very, very nice. I loved the article. Thanks for the info also!
Thankyou Avery! This has really helped me understand how the crafting is going to work, it has been one of the things that I have had little info on. So it has helped alot.
I am really looking forward to your next post on questing. Looks like you have done a awsome job in getting down all that info too.
Hope you had a great time at Funcom HQ.
Osahar Ismassri
Conscript of King's Guard
http://guild-of-kings-guard.com/
Maybe easier isn't the right word then. Maybe something like "needless" is better.
There's just no challenge in the crafting process from what I've seen, other than perhaps getting better socketed jewels to make the more advanced items.
Gathering the resources looks pretty needlessly aggravating though. Seems like you're still going to be harvesting over and over again until you get the special rare drop.
I predict that because the crafting process is so easy, there will be many players who make characters just to craft for themselves, thereby removing any need for players to interact with each other in the long run.
Funcom has already said that players should be able to get to the max level within a few weeks. Seems like it wouldn't take too much effort just to make a character for every crafting class.
And yes, I'm aware you have to be level 40 to start crafting. That's still not going to take people very long.
I more meant that you don't need to go somewhere to craft. The reason I can't play WoW is because you spend 80% of your time running around from one place to the other. It sounds like in AoC at least once you have all the stuff you can just craft, which is a step in the right direction imho.
We adventurers have been held hostage to crafters since the days of DAoC and onward. Does crafting have to be in every puking game? Just once I'd like to see a true adventure game that doesn't make people depend on crafting or raiding.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Avery, thank you very much. Once again, you are bringing us information. Once again, Funcom has failed to provide us with a Crafting update. While I enjoyed your read on the update, it is not the same as coming from the devs. Yes, I enjoyed reading a gamers take on the crafting system, but I want to know what the devs were thinking and where we are headed with crafting. It isn't a slight on you, Avery. You do great work. This is just another huge let down on the part of Funcom. They promised an update and they failed to deliver.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
There are thousands of them, and they are available in great quantities at your local best buy and game stop.
You can beat them in a few hours as well, further removing the need for you to interact with other players.
For most things in WoW, you can do just that, you just have to have the right crafting tool in your inventory. That at least gives a small amount of legitimacy to what you're doing.
You're still going to be running around a lot in AoC just to gather resources.
Maybe it's just my generation, but it just seems like with the release of every new game, everyone wants to get as much reward with as little effort as possible.
Then again, WoW has 10 million active subscriptions right now. So clearly most people don't mind having to do a little running around to gather resources.