A new server for EvE?

markoraos

This is a followup to "No PvP servers" thread.

I too would really like to get into EVE online but frankly I'm a bit put off by harsh death penalties... While I know this appeals to some folks and i respect that, imo the game would profit with a bit less hardcore server.

While I know the CCPs stated aim is everybody on one server, and this is awesome, this does pose some problems for new players:

- When you start playing you have absolutely no chance catching up with the big boys due to time-based skll advancement

- the harsh death penalties are a huge letdown for us carebearish sensitive types. I mean I did play trial and i know you can buy insurance and all that, but still you loose all your gear which can be incredibly painful. My impression was that you PvP very rarely in this game since each time your ship goes you have to refit it all over again.. that is if you have the $$ to do it.

So.. to cut the long story short, I'd definitely play EVE since I do love space operas, trading games and sandbox mmorpgs (and PvP as well, even though i'm carebearish sensitive type). EVE looks like a dream game to me but these two concerns put me off and I'm sure if I get into it I'll end up frustrated as hell.

So what do you think? Is thare a chance of a new EVE server where you could have an even playing field and where you could (for example) insure your gear along with your ship (It would be sweet if you could pick it up already fitted at stations).

 

oramio

Just my opinion here, but that kind of a server will deviate a lot from the soul of Eve, and will be deserted by players.

Harsh penalties? I have 100mil ISK at the moment, and continuing flying my 80 mil costing ship in secure space, and no, I won't bring it into low security space, there are much to be done in low security, but I just need some more skills to get onto stealth ships that you can slip through camped gates in low security area (and they cost 10 million or so )

markoraos

Originally posted by oramio


Just my opinion here, but that kind of a server will deviate a lot from the soul of Eve, and will be deserted by players.
Harsh penalties? I have 100mil ISK at the moment, and continuing flying my 80 mil costing ship in secure space, and no, I won't bring it into low security space, there are much to be done in low security, but I just need some more skills to get onto stealth ships that you can slip through camped gates in low security area (and they cost 10 million or so )

Well you see, that's the problem. You're essentially mining asteroids away from the action... OK, I'm coming out now - I LOVE PVP!!! It's just that these harsh death penalties give you "Bang -  you're dead. Now go grind some asteroids till you can refit your ship" feel which I don't like at all. I'd like more PvP but harsh death penalties make it quite rare unless you fly crap ships (which is pointless) and/or you are a part of corporation paying off your losses. And still you have to refit your ship manually...

Imo the "cheap auto-insurance with fittings" would make PVPing much more common and more palatable for us non-hardcore types.

And ofc the new server, whether classic or carebear won't be empty. The second point of my post is that new players simply don't have any hope of competing with the old timers. And if you kill hope what is left?

singsofdeath

First, taking the harshness of PvP out of EVE would render the game pointless. The whole game is constructed in that it allows players to build and to achieve something with their time...and to lose that when they get careless. That is part of the "realism" of EVE and from my time in the game, that is what most of the players love about it (and I doubt that has changed since I stopped ^^).

 

Secondly, never catching up is true and false all at the same time. It is true, you will never have as many skillpoints as a 3 year old player, but you don't need them. Focuss on a certain ship and you will be able to fly it just as well as -ANY- other player in a given amount of time and for the small ships, that doesn't even take long. And the PvP in EVE is set up so that nearly every ship has it's role to fill in battles....except maybe Shuttles. ^_^

 

Anyway, if you want uncomplicated and loss-free PvP, EVE is not and most probably will never be for you. EVE is a harsh world where you can achieve much one day...and lose it all the next. Such is life.

Sain34

I avoid pvp at all costs, however, I believe EvE would only suffer if it tryed to dumb itself down to please the "LCD" playerbase as WoW has done.

nurgles

here is something i have posted before. i hope it helps.

 

There is an enormous amount of criticism about how inadequate EVE is for new players when compared to older players, I would like to give some hope to n00bs while giving a bit of  a perspective on the game and why it is so different.

 

“EVE-online’s skill progression system doesn’t let me catch up to an older player”. The statement is both incorrect (which I will explain later) but it is also a game killing concept. Why should you be able to catch up to an older player? That implies that the older player themselves have reached a halt in progression, nowhere to go, endgame, so they may as well quit.

 

EVE is structured to both get new players and to also keep older players, that is why there is people still playing from the beta release in ?2003?. So try to keep in mind that when playing the game, you are not heading towards endgame, as there isn’t one.

 

So then the question is “what is the goal?”, the simple answer is “it’s a sandbox, so whatever you want it to be” which I admit sounds hollow. To me, the point of the game is the social aspect, everything drives you towards interacting with others, this leads to the complexity of social organization and politics. So the point is to be involved in the player driven ‘structures’ in the game. These structures can be the items from the manufactured ammo all the way up to stations and titans, or they can be the abstracts like the economy or the political organisation and wars. It is the single server persistent world allows this.

 

Now back to catching up to an older player in skills. Simply put, the skill tree design, the fact that skills have a maximum level, mean that you can have exactly the same number of skill points in an area as an older player. “Hold on a sec, is this not in conflict with what is said above?” Not really, due to the older player being able to have more diversity in what they can do. This allows them to explore more content in the game.

 

“But I can never fight on an equal footing with an older player!” again, why should you be able to? The fact is that the most important aspect of PvP in EVE is knowing the situation that you are in. Skillpoints, ISK are immaterial if you do something stupid. Most battles are won or lost on controlling the intel that each side has. You need to bait people into a fight that they will loose. Some people like a one vs one fight, and some even fight ‘honourably’ in requesting a one vs one, but the majority of fights in the game are unequal. As a social game, a tight team working together can really hit hard. Then there is the fact that each ship is designed to have a weakness as well as a strength, so you should be able to beat it by hitting its weakness, so a younger play can take down an older one. Also a lot of older players don’t actually fight, the highest known skill point character is a scientist/inventor/industrial character.

PegasusJF

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Originally posted by markoraos

Well you see, that's the problem. You're essentially mining asteroids away from the action... OK, I'm coming out now - I LOVE PVP!!! It's just that these harsh death penalties give you "Bang - you're dead. Now go grind some asteroids till you can refit your ship" feel which I don't like at all. I'd like more PvP but harsh death penalties make it quite rare unless you fly crap ships (which is pointless) and/or you are a part of corporation paying off your losses. And still you have to refit your ship manually...
Imo the "cheap auto-insurance with fittings" would make PVPing much more common and more palatable for us non-hardcore types.
And ofc the new server, whether classic or carebear won't be empty. The second point of my post is that new players simply don't have any hope of competing with the old timers. And if you kill hope what is left?

---

There are several easy remedies to this problem.

First, join a like minded PVP corp. That way you can fly with a group, and that is critical for fun EVE pvp. Plus it gives you more choice of what you can fly AND they may be able to provide some sort of support.

Second, you only fly what you can afford to lose. Frigate combat and Frigate raids are still AFAIK a viable way of PVPing because unless you're flying straight at a larger ship it's very likely that the guns they have won't be able to do so much as scratch your paint. This goes, to a somewhat lesser extent, to larger missiles as well.

Plus, every ship class (yes, even frigs) has a useful purpose in fleet PVP.

So you can fly anything that fits your desire of risk and be useful. (In my experience, a nicely t2 fitted Jaguar cost me about 20-25m, not much at all).

The other points you have are already covered.

METALDRAG0N

Originally posted by markoraos


This is a followup to "No PvP servers" thread.
I too would really like to get into EVE online but frankly I'm a bit put off by harsh death penalties... While I know this appeals to some folks and i respect that, imo the game would profit with a bit less hardcore server.
While I know the CCPs stated aim is everybody on one server, and this is awesome, this does pose some problems for new players:
- When you start playing you have absolutely no chance catching up with the big boys due to time-based skll advancement You sound like you HAVE to catch up in order to compete and do well?
- the harsh death penalties are a huge letdown for us carebearish sensitive types. I mean I did play trial and i know you can buy insurance and all that, but still you loose all your gear which can be incredibly painful. THen lean how not to lose your stuff My impression was that you PvP very rarely in this game since each time your ship goes you have to refit it all over again.. that is if you have the $$ to do it.
So.. to cut the long story short, I'd definitely play EVE since I do love space operas, trading games and sandbox mmorpgs (and PvP as well, even though i'm carebearish sensitive type). EVE looks like a dream game to me but these two concerns put me off and I'm sure if I get into it I'll end up frustrated as hell.
So what do you think? Is thare a chance of a new EVE server where you could have an even playing field and where you could (for example) insure your gear along with your ship (It would be sweet if you could pick it up already fitted at stations).
 This will NEVER happen EvE is a PvP game not a carebearish PvE game like WoW. And one of EvE's selling points is that its all on one server.

 

markoraos

Originally posted by singsofdeath


First, taking the harshness of PvP out of EVE would render the game pointless. The whole game is constructed in that it allows players to build and to achieve something with their time...and to lose that when they get careless. That is part of the "realism" of EVE and from my time in the game, that is what most of the players love about it (and I doubt that has changed since I stopped ^^).
 Well you see the problem here is that currently in EVE online you have to do enormous amounts of PVE grind  in order to be able to PVP very rarely. Imho this is quite weird and a big turn off for me. A server ruleset where insurance was 3 times cheaper and you could insure the fittings along with the ship would have AT LEAST three times more PVP! Pure economics, man.
I started my trial account all wired up for some cool space combat (and I simply love how it is done) and what is in for me? Two weeks of PVE grind so I can buy some tugboat that gets blown away in 0.1 nanoseconds. And what happens next? I have to spend another 2 weeks of PVE grind in order to have another shot at another 0.1 nanoseconds of PvP which I am going to surely loose.
Imo lessening the cost of insurance and cutting on downtime won't remove the hardcore element. but it will sure make PvP more common AND, more importantly make being a noob much much easier. Sure, I'll get blown away a lot, but at least I won't have to grind asteroids for weeks just to have another go.


Secondly, never catching up is true and false all at the same time. It is true, you will never have as many skillpoints as a 3 year old player, but you don't need them. Focuss on a certain ship and you will be able to fly it just as well as -ANY- other player in a given amount of time and for the small ships, that doesn't even take long. And the PvP in EVE is set up so that nearly every ship has it's role to fill in battles....except maybe Shuttles. ^_^
Yep, I might be able to fly SMALL ships well one day. This isn't something that will draw new players in the game - "You are a noob, and you will always be a noob because everybody has more skillpoints then you, and you will never be able to get even close to those who are in it from the beginning."
Just imagine how many players wow would have if it was free for all PvP with unlimited leveling? new players would stop coming in less than 6 months from the release...
Anyway, if you want uncomplicated and loss-free PvP, EVE is not and most probably will never be for you. EVE is a harsh world where you can achieve much one day...and lose it all the next. Such is life.
1) I WANT complicated PvP. I'm a game rules freak. I have a pen-and-paper RPG and board game collection you wouldn't believe. I played Advanced Squad Leader in it's day with full rules and if you know what I'm talking bout you'll see what I mean. What attracts me the most to EVE is how awesomely complex ship combat, economy systems and the whole lot are. The game is simply perfect for me.
2) I want EVE to have this loss component - ofc I do. However I don't want to pay for my PvP losses with having to GRIND PvE like a slave! And moreover I don't want to be set in this icorrigible role of a PvE farmer from the very beginning of the game and with no real hope of ever being a top dog simply because I joined the game late.
I'm not saying this decrease in PvP penalty should apply to the existing server cluster. I'm not even saying it should apply to the new one, but I do believe that a new shard should definitely  be created. I can live with harsh penalties if I'm not at least marked as an "eternal noob doomed to loose" (and farm asteroids) at the very beginning of the game.

 

Lordmonkus

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by singsofdeath


First, taking the harshness of PvP out of EVE would render the game pointless. The whole game is constructed in that it allows players to build and to achieve something with their time...and to lose that when they get careless. That is part of the "realism" of EVE and from my time in the game, that is what most of the players love about it (and I doubt that has changed since I stopped ^^).
 Well you see the problem here is that currently in EVE online you have to do enormous amounts of PVE grind  in order to be able to PVP very rarely. Imho this is quite weird and a big turn off for me. A server ruleset where insurance was 3 times cheaper and you could insure the fittings along with the ship would have AT LEAST three times more PVP! Pure economics, man.
This is simply not true in Eve. Yes, you do do have to do some pve content at first to earn enough money for skills and ships to learn how to pvp. This is a much bigger problem in other mmos such as WoW where you actually have to grind far more to take part in pvp or pve.
If insurance cost less and covered modules this would make pvp cost absolutely nothing which would drive the cost of everything up to rediculous amounts and you would have to farm even more to get anything. This would break the economy of the game which is what everything in the game is based upon.
I started my trial account all wired up for some cool space combat (and I simply love how it is done) and what is in for me? Two weeks of PVE grind so I can buy some tugboat that gets blown away in 0.1 nanoseconds. And what happens next? I have to spend another 2 weeks of PVE grind in order to have another shot at another 0.1 nanoseconds of PvP which I am going to surely loose.
2 weeks to save up for a frigate and gear for it ? You clearly don't understand how to play the game yet. A buddy of mine just recently started playing 4 days ago and he already has enough money to spend on frigates to pvp in if he wanted to.
Imo lessening the cost of insurance and cutting on downtime won't remove the hardcore element. but it will sure make PvP more common AND, more importantly make being a noob much much easier. Sure, I'll get blown away a lot, but at least I won't have to grind asteroids for weeks just to have another go.
You don't have to suck roids to make isk in Eve, you can kill npcs or trade if you wanted to among other things. I will agree that roid sucking is boring as hell which is why I will never mine to make isk (level 2 mining skill FTW since it came with the toon when I made him)


Secondly, never catching up is true and false all at the same time. It is true, you will never have as many skillpoints as a 3 year old player, but you don't need them. Focuss on a certain ship and you will be able to fly it just as well as -ANY- other player in a given amount of time and for the small ships, that doesn't even take long. And the PvP in EVE is set up so that nearly every ship has it's role to fill in battles....except maybe Shuttles. ^_^
Yep, I might be able to fly SMALL ships well one day. This isn't something that will draw new players in the game - "You are a noob, and you will always be a noob because everybody has more skillpoints then you, and you will never be able to get even close to those who are in it from the beginning."
Not true. Others may have more skill points than you but most of those skill points won't even have an effect on the particular ship you are flying at the moment. For instance I can fly a battleship fully tech 2 fitted because I have the skills  but since flying a BS doesn't fit my playstyle those BS skills will never effect my frigates or HACs which I do prefer to fly.
Just imagine how many players wow would have if it was free for all PvP with unlimited leveling? new players would stop coming in less than 6 months from the release...
Anyway, if you want uncomplicated and loss-free PvP, EVE is not and most probably will never be for you. EVE is a harsh world where you can achieve much one day...and lose it all the next. Such is life.
1) I WANT complicated PvP. I'm a game rules freak. I have a pen-and-paper RPG and board game collection you wouldn't believe. I played Advanced Squad Leader in it's day with full rules and if you know what I'm talking bout you'll see what I mean. What attracts me the most to EVE is how awesomely complex ship combat, economy systems and the whole lot are. The game is simply perfect for me.
2) I want EVE to have this loss component - ofc I do. However I don't want to pay for my PvP losses with having to GRIND PvE like a slave! And moreover I don't want to be set in this icorrigible role of a PvE farmer from the very beginning of the game and with no real hope of ever being a top dog simply because I joined the game late.
I'm not saying this decrease in PvP penalty should apply to the existing server cluster. I'm not even saying it should apply to the new one, but I do believe that a new shard should definitely  be created. I can live with harsh penalties if I'm not at least marked as an "eternal noob doomed to loose" (and farm asteroids) at the very beginning of the game.
Once again your notion of farming for a long time is way off. There is no person that's 'Top Dog' in Eve. There are top alliances but no top players simply because they have the so called best gear. Best gear in Eve means nothing, especially when you can lose it and the person who just killed you took it. If any player is considered 'Top Dog' in the game it is because they know how the game works better than the next person and happen to play the game better than most everyone else, not because they grinded for isk and bought the top modules.

 

 

kadepsyson

A new server for EVE?  Sure, and why not call it Worlds of EVECraft at the same time.  I think they should make the ships look like carebears too just so the players flocking to that server don't get confused as to their place in EVE.

Copeland

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Originally posted by markoraos
Originally posted by oramio Just my opinion here, but that kind of a server will deviate a lot from the soul of Eve, and will be deserted by players.
Harsh penalties? I have 100mil ISK at the moment, and continuing flying my 80 mil costing ship in secure space, and no, I won't bring it into low security space, there are much to be done in low security, but I just need some more skills to get onto stealth ships that you can slip through camped gates in low security area (and they cost 10 million or so )

Well you see, that's the problem. You're essentially mining asteroids away from the action... OK, I'm coming out now - I LOVE PVP!!! It's just that these harsh death penalties give you "Bang -  you're dead. Now go grind some asteroids till you can refit your ship" feel which I don't like at all. I'd like more PvP but harsh death penalties make it quite rare unless you fly crap ships (which is pointless) and/or you are a part of corporation paying off your losses. And still you have to refit your ship manually...
Imo the "cheap auto-insurance with fittings" would make PVPing much more common and more palatable for us non-hardcore types.
And ofc the new server, whether classic or carebear won't be empty. The second point of my post is that new players simply don't have any hope of competing with the old timers. And if you kill hope what is left?

---

Eve doesn't have harsh death penalties because it's very easy to make isk and fit a new ship. Quit trying to dumb down EvE. We like it the way it is.

natausch

The only, and I repeat only, reason I'd like to see EVE start a new server would be to allow people to start fresh, not only in skill points and economy but also in real estate.

Otherwise, the game plays fine as it is, period.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Copeland


 

Originally posted by markoraos


Originally posted by oramio
 
Just my opinion here, but that kind of a server will deviate a lot from the soul of Eve, and will be deserted by players.

Harsh penalties? I have 100mil ISK at the moment, and continuing flying my 80 mil costing ship in secure space, and no, I won't bring it into low security space, there are much to be done in low security, but I just need some more skills to get onto stealth ships that you can slip through camped gates in low security area (and they cost 10 million or so )

Well you see, that's the problem. You're essentially mining asteroids away from the action... OK, I'm coming out now - I LOVE PVP!!! It's just that these harsh death penalties give you "Bang -  you're dead. Now go grind some asteroids till you can refit your ship" feel which I don't like at all. I'd like more PvP but harsh death penalties make it quite rare unless you fly crap ships (which is pointless) and/or you are a part of corporation paying off your losses. And still you have to refit your ship manually...

Imo the "cheap auto-insurance with fittings" would make PVPing much more common and more palatable for us non-hardcore types.

And ofc the new server, whether classic or carebear won't be empty. The second point of my post is that new players simply don't have any hope of competing with the old timers. And if you kill hope what is left?

---

 

Eve doesn't have harsh death penalties because it's very easy to make isk and fit a new ship. Quit trying to dumb down EvE. We like it the way it is.

Well, the poster is not asking to dumb down YOUR game. He is asking for a new server. Why would you care if there is a "dumb-down" server? It won't impact you and your game anyway.

Lordmonkus

Yes it would actually. A pve type server would take a lot of dev resources away from the current server. A pve server would require a complete rework and tuning of the entire game unviverse where all that time would be much better spent working on the incredible new content that CCP wants to bring in to the game over time.

nariusseldon

That is assuming dev resources remain constant. If a PVE server is successful, it may bring in even MORE resources for the PVP original.

If not, it will siphon off some resource in the beginning but they can close it down fast and shift back to the original.

markoraos

 

Originally posted by Lordmonkus


Yes it would actually. A pve type server would take a lot of dev resources away from the current server. A pve server would require a complete rework and tuning of the entire game unviverse where all that time would be much better spent working on the incredible new content that CCP wants to bring in to the game over time.

 

What PvE server, who's talking about a PvE server? Who's crazy here? I never mentioned anything about  any PvE servers because I'm totally for PvP. I'm talking about a possible rules tweak to make PvP happen more often!

Just copy the server code onto another batch of hardware and that's it. How can this in any way possible take away from devs' time?

If there are any rules changes for the server I'd appreciate it if they made possible buying insurance for modules as well and having the new boat fitted for you instead of straight cash that you have to spend time reconstructing your ship. Economy and insurance rates may easily be tweaked to cover that change.

However, I can live with the game ruleset as it is - if there is a new server so us new players can play the game without getting hopelessly pwned through the time-based skill system, an oold old economy which determines the quality of your gear, and then finally harshly punished by unforgiving death penalties.

I'm a noob here and I only played EvE trial. This post is my own and I'm telling you what's keeping me and a few of my pals from joining up. I might be dumb but this is how I feel and I won't join EVE as it is now - this is mine and my friends' subjective and highly personal opininon. This may not mean much to you but I'm sure that developers wouldn't mind a few hundred thousand new subscribers. A new server wouldn't touch you guys. You can still have your own universe where you accumulated your 3 years of skill points and the corresponding amount of isk.

However, just imagine when you first logged into your fresh new universe called EVE Online... all yours for the taking. How would you feel if you suddenly realized that it's been already completely taken and that you'll never amount to anything since the old sharks have grown some very large teeth there... Just try to imagine how a new player feels upon entering EVE online universe now and how it differs from your first experience.

Lordmonkus

 

Originally posted by nariusseldon


That is assuming dev resources remain constant. If a PVE server is successful, it may bring in even MORE resources for the PVP original.
If not, it will siphon off some resource in the beginning but they can close it down fast and shift back to the original.

CCP never made Eve to make the most money in the world. They made Eve to be a game they wanted to play and make enough money. Eve is a vision not some product to make as much money as possible and then make some more. Eve is a labor of love for CCP and the fact that it actually does make money for them now is the icing on the cake.

 

The new Jumpgate game will probably be the Eve pve that some people are looking for and since it will be designed from the ground up to be that way it will do a far better job at it then just  reworking the Eve universe to fit on a pve server.

Edit: Markos read the post above the one you quoted from me.

Kyleran

OP, I won't lie to you.  You are correct in that you do need to PVE grind to earn the ISK to fund your PVP habits.  That's a core mechanic.  The more efficient you are at earning ISK (there are many ways to make ISK besides mining) the move PVP you can focus on.

Realize this, PVP in EVE means making sure you play smart and to the best of your ability, you make sure you never lose.  This isn't a game for folks who grew up in WOW where it doesn't matter if you throw caution to the wind and kill until you die, then rinse and repeat.

You work very hard to make sure you have superior numbers, skills (and personal skill) and gear to win more than you lose.  It's a different mind-set than many folks are used to, and not for everyone.

You don't have to fly the big ships to have fun, but I assure you, within 6 months you could be in a Sniper Battleship and a major factor in fleet engagements.  True, you want to fly Carriers/Dreadnaughts, expect to play for a year or more, but hey, what else would you shoot for?

You can become an good pilot in smaller ships quite quickly, I have a Corpmate who flies only Interceptors and he averages between 2-8 kills per day.  Most of his fights are in low sec and solo, and he rarely loses.  (Good thing too, because his ship/implants cost about 250m ISK)

And one more thing, if you really don't want to PVE to earn ISK, you don't have to. EVE has a CCP approved method of buying monthly timecards (or 3 months) and trading them for in-game ISK.  I have many friends who do this because they have more cash than time to spend doing PVE.  Purists might hate CCP for making this possible, but I think its an excellent idea for those who just don't want to PVE.

 

 

Sheista

Anyone remember the disaster that was the Chinese server?  It failed because of a metagaming corporation being able to set up structures right off the bat with players still being unable to fly dreadnaughts or other big capital ships to take down the structures.

That's just another reason out of the many why a new server wouldn't work.

Kulthos

 

Originally posted by singsofdeath


First, taking the harshness of PvP out of EVE would render the game pointless. The whole game is constructed in that it allows players to build and to achieve something with their time...and to lose that when they get careless. That is part of the "realism" of EVE and from my time in the game, that is what most of the players love about it (and I doubt that has changed since I stopped ^^). 

If you want to achieve something with your time, stop playing computer games.  Improve your education, put extra time into your career, spend more time wih your children, but don't think that you are going to ACHIEVE anything in a goofy video game. 

 

 

I should mention that Ultima Online, when faced with non-PvP competition that was eating it's lunch, made a non-PvP server.  This crashed the PvP server as everyone flooded to the safe zone to escape the gankers and griefers.  If EVE made a non PvP server everyone huddled in 0.5 space or above would leave it, and the "main" server would be a ghost town, just like with UO. 

For people who want a fun game, just skip EVE and wait for the competitioon to come out.  EVE's devs will never make it into a good game.  Pass EVE by and leave the PvP types to their game.

Lordmonkus

Originally posted by markoraos


 
Originally posted by Lordmonkus


Yes it would actually. A pve type server would take a lot of dev resources away from the current server. A pve server would require a complete rework and tuning of the entire game unviverse where all that time would be much better spent working on the incredible new content that CCP wants to bring in to the game over time.

 

What PvE server, who's talking about a PvE server? Who's crazy here? I never mentioned anything about  any PvE servers because I'm totally for PvP. I'm talking about a possible rules tweak to make PvP happen more often!

Read the post above the one you quoted from me. That is what my post was in response to.

Just copy the server code onto another batch of hardware and that's it. How can this in any way possible take away from devs' time?

If there are any rules changes for the server I'd appreciate it if they made possible buying insurance for modules as well and having the new boat fitted for you instead of straight cash that you have to spend time reconstructing your ship. Economy and insurance rates may easily be tweaked to cover that change.

If insurance was applied to modules as well and if ship loss was nothing then the economy would collapse and inflation would go insane since there was no money lost, thus making the vets truly out of reach and untouchable by the new player. Just in case you don't know, the cost of items have actually come down over the last year because of the way CCP watches and handles the economy. Tech 2 ships and modules are now very affordable.

However, I can live with the game ruleset as it is - if there is a new server so us new players can play the game without getting hopelessly pwned through the time-based skill system, an oold old economy which determines the quality of your gear, and then finally harshly punished by unforgiving death penalties.

As it has been said many times before already, just because you will never catch up in terms of total skillpoints you can easily catch up in skillpoints where they are needed to fit whatever role you wish to play in the game and then from there you can diversify your skill set as you wish.

I'm a noob here and I only played EvE trial. This post is my own and I'm telling you what's keeping me and a few of my pals from joining up. I might be dumb but this is how I feel and I won't join EVE as it is now - this is mine and my friends' subjective and highly personal opininon. This may not mean much to you but I'm sure that developers wouldn't mind a few hundred thousand new subscribers. A new server wouldn't touch you guys. You can still have your own universe where you accumulated your 3 years of skill points and the corresponding amount of isk.

Fine, that's your opinion but I believe your opinion is formed off of mistaken perceptions of how the game universe in Eve actually works. You are right about CCP wishing to have more subscribers but they do not want them at the cost of destroying their vision of Eve.

How much isk do you think that I as a vet of the game have ? Billions ? Currently I have around 400 mil total isk plus assets. To a new player I am sure this sounds like a great deal of money but it really isn't very much at all compared to the players out there that do have billions. The reason I don't have that much isk is because like you I hate to farm, it's the reason I left WoW. The farming in that game is beyond stupid to me.

However, just imagine when you first logged into your fresh new universe called EVE Online... all yours for the taking. How would you feel if you suddenly realized that it's been already completely taken and that you'll never amount to anything since the old sharks have grown some very large teeth there... Just try to imagine how a new player feels upon entering EVE online universe now and how it differs from your first experience.

All a new server (even if it's the exact same rules) would do is just give people a fresh start for a couple of months until the universe is all under control of corps and alliances and then you would be back in the same position as it is now, new players coming in would be feeling the same way you describe now so then what ? Make another server again ? Now we're splitting up the player base too much and thus destroying another thing about Eve that makes it so unique  in the over crowded cookie cutter mmo market, the single universe.

 

markoraos

Originally posted by Kyleran


OP, I won't lie to you.  You are correct in that you do need to PVE grind to earn the ISK to fund your PVP habits.  That's a core mechanic.  The more efficient you are at earning ISK (there are many ways to make ISK besides mining) the move PVP you can focus on.
Realize this, PVP in EVE means making sure you play smart and to the best of your ability, you make sure you never lose.  This isn't a game for folks who grew up in WOW where it doesn't matter if you throw caution to the wind and kill until you die, then rinse and repeat.
You work very hard to make sure you have superior numbers, skills (and personal skill) and gear to win more than you lose.  It's a different mind-set than many folks are used to, and not for everyone.
You don't have to fly the big ships to have fun, but I assure you, within 6 months you could be in a Sniper Battleship and a major factor in fleet engagements.  True, you want to fly Carriers/Dreadnaughts, expect to play for a year or more, but hey, what else would you shoot for?
You can become an good pilot in smaller ships quite quickly, I have a Corpmate who flies only Interceptors and he averages between 2-8 kills per day.  Most of his fights are in low sec and solo, and he rarely loses.  (Good thing too, because his ship/implants cost about 250m ISK)
And one more thing, if you really don't want to PVE to earn ISK, you don't have to. EVE has a CCP approved method of buying monthly timecards (or 3 months) and trading them for in-game ISK.  I have many friends who do this because they have more cash than time to spend doing PVE.  Purists might hate CCP for making this possible, but I think its an excellent idea for those who just don't want to PVE.
 
 

Thaks for the honest response there.

So... according to the purists I'm less of a PvP-er because I don't want earn my PvP time through PvE? I'm less of a PvP-er because I want to spend as much time as possible doing PvP rather than anything else?

There is something mighty fishy with that logic there...

I'll leave you guys to think about what you really mean by "PvP".

Lordmonkus

Originally posted by Kulthos


 
 
Originally posted by singsofdeath


First, taking the harshness of PvP out of EVE would render the game pointless. The whole game is constructed in that it allows players to build and to achieve something with their time...and to lose that when they get careless. That is part of the "realism" of EVE and from my time in the game, that is what most of the players love about it (and I doubt that has changed since I stopped ^^). 

If you want to achieve something with your time, stop playing computer games.  Improve your education, put extra time into your career, spend more time wih your children, but don't think that you are going to ACHIEVE anything in a goofy video game. 

 

 

 

I should mention that Ultima Online, when faced with non-PvP competition that was eating it's lunch, made a non-PvP server.  This crashed the PvP server as everyone flooded to the safe zone to escape the gankers and griefers.  If EVE made a non PvP server everyone huddled in 0.5 space or above would leave it, and the "main" server would be a ghost town, just like with UO. 

For people who want a fun game, just skip EVE and wait for the competitioon to come out.  EVE's devs will never make it into a good game.  Pass EVE by and leave the PvP types to their game.

Rayalist

Originally posted by Kulthos


 
 
Originally posted by singsofdeath


First, taking the harshness of PvP out of EVE would render the game pointless. The whole game is constructed in that it allows players to build and to achieve something with their time...and to lose that when they get careless. That is part of the "realism" of EVE and from my time in the game, that is what most of the players love about it (and I doubt that has changed since I stopped ^^). 

If you want to achieve something with your time, stop playing computer games.  Improve your education, put extra time into your career, spend more time wih your children, but don't think that you are going to ACHIEVE anything in a goofy video game. 

 

 

 

I should mention that Ultima Online, when faced with non-PvP competition that was eating it's lunch, made a non-PvP server.  This crashed the PvP server as everyone flooded to the safe zone to escape the gankers and griefers.  If EVE made a non PvP server everyone huddled in 0.5 space or above would leave it, and the "main" server would be a ghost town, just like with UO. 

For people who want a fun game, just skip EVE and wait for the competitioon to come out.  EVE's devs will never make it into a good game.  Pass EVE by and leave the PvP types to their game.

Yet it has many people who defend it...

It's a game for a niche crowd and I appreciate CCP for continuing to design it for that crowd instead of trying to appeal to the masses.

Lordmonkus

Originally posted by markoraos


 
Originally posted by Kyleran


OP, I won't lie to you.  You are correct in that you do need to PVE grind to earn the ISK to fund your PVP habits.  That's a core mechanic.  The more efficient you are at earning ISK (there are many ways to make ISK besides mining) the move PVP you can focus on.
Realize this, PVP in EVE means making sure you play smart and to the best of your ability, you make sure you never lose.  This isn't a game for folks who grew up in WOW where it doesn't matter if you throw caution to the wind and kill until you die, then rinse and repeat.
You work very hard to make sure you have superior numbers, skills (and personal skill) and gear to win more than you lose.  It's a different mind-set than many folks are used to, and not for everyone.
You don't have to fly the big ships to have fun, but I assure you, within 6 months you could be in a Sniper Battleship and a major factor in fleet engagements.  True, you want to fly Carriers/Dreadnaughts, expect to play for a year or more, but hey, what else would you shoot for?
You can become an good pilot in smaller ships quite quickly, I have a Corpmate who flies only Interceptors and he averages between 2-8 kills per day.  Most of his fights are in low sec and solo, and he rarely loses.  (Good thing too, because his ship/implants cost about 250m ISK)
And one more thing, if you really don't want to PVE to earn ISK, you don't have to. EVE has a CCP approved method of buying monthly timecards (or 3 months) and trading them for in-game ISK.  I have many friends who do this because they have more cash than time to spend doing PVE.  Purists might hate CCP for making this possible, but I think its an excellent idea for those who just don't want to PVE.
 
 

 

Thaks for the honest response there.

So... according to the purists I'm less of a PvP-er because I don't want earn my PvP time through PvE? I'm less of a PvP-er because I want to spend as much time as possible doing PvP rather than anything else?

There is something mighty fishy with that logic there...

I'll leave you guys to think about what you really mean by "PvP".

At this point you are just putting words into peoples mouths to make yourself feel better about your opinions. Who said anything about you being less of a pvp'er ? All was said was that some purists might feel that way. I consider myself a purist but no way would I ever think less of someone who buys isk through selling game time cards in game. To me it's kind of funny that someone would actually spend real world money just to actually lose it in a game, but then again i'm not a gambler with money in the real world where lots of people like to play poker to win or lose real money.