Collision detection question

sparkyx

I was watching an RvR video and showed it to a friend,and he brought up a good question.

Will casters be able to cast through say...a tank at a target behind him?

vaizard

I think the collision detection is got to do with bodies not spells. So people just can't RUN through the person. Doesn't affect spell casting and or projectiles.

xray00

Yes, it does not block line of sight, just movement through.  It would actually be a waste of resources to have it block LoS as the caster would simply need to move a meter to the left of right.

SpiritofGame

 

Originally posted by sparkyx


I was watching an RvR video and showed it to a friend,and he brought up a good question.
Will casters be able to cast through say...a tank at a target behind him?

 

WarCry: With collision detection in the game, how do other players affect line of sight, if at all? Can I still shoot at a player I have targeted if they are standing behind someone else? Also how does Line of Sight work? If I start to cast a spell at someone, and they move behind a large rock, will my spell still go off and hit?

WAR Community Team: Line of sight is most definitely affected by other players; if you can't see them, you can't cast at them. Line of sight is determined when the spell goes off, so if they're not still in your line of site at the end of the casting timer, you won't be able to cast on them.

 

 

Warhammer Online Exclusive Interview #7 with WarCry:

www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/2284-Warhammer-Online-Exclusive-Interview-7

Pheace

Originally posted by SpiritofGame


 
Originally posted by sparkyx


I was watching an RvR video and showed it to a friend,and he brought up a good question.
Will casters be able to cast through say...a tank at a target behind him?

 

WarCry: With collision detection in the game, how do other players affect line of sight, if at all? Can I still shoot at a player I have targeted if they are standing behind someone else? Also how does Line of Sight work? If I start to cast a spell at someone, and they move behind a large rock, will my spell still go off and hit?

WAR Community Team: Line of sight is most definitely affected by other players; if you can't see them, you can't cast at them. Line of sight is determined when the spell goes off, so if they're not still in your line of site at the end of the casting timer, you won't be able to cast on them.

 

 

Warhammer Online Exclusive Interview #7 with WarCry:

www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/2284-Warhammer-Online-Exclusive-Interview-7

 

That sounds incredibly annoying with the long casting bars I've seen in some video. I would've preferred you get the shot off at least but you hit whatever is in the way

SpiritofGame

 

Originally posted by Pheace


 
 
That sounds incredibly annoying with the long casting bars I've seen in some video. I would've preferred you get the shot off at least but you hit whatever is in the way

I was also thinking that shooting through other players would be advantageous, but I believe Mythic wants players to utilize CD and LoS to tactical advantage.

 

This way you WILL be able to "hide" behind a tough tank (or terrain) to break LoS.

Also, I think the LoS check that comes at the end of the progress bar, when the shot is actually fired, is a good way to determine LoS.  In some other games, the LoS check was done as soon as you pressed your button to fire the shot, which resulted in players complaining of "no-fair!" shots which would pass directly through solid objects two or three seconds AFTER you had taken cover to break LoS.

What this means to me is:

~ Use of terrain will be important.

~ Use of tactical battle formations will be important.

~ "Shield Walls" (or just plain old "Meat Shields"  ) will be important.

~ Taking the high ground -- as in real warfare -- will be important.

Overall, I think the use of CD and LoS is going to make for a game of strategic maneuvering and proper battle formations.

In the beginning we will all be newbies, but as time passes we will understand how large-scale combat works and just what needs to be done to effectively position our forces.

To me this means ... we'll have to use strategies with more depth than just, "Charge!" in order to win the day.

Pheace

 

Originally posted by SpiritofGame


 
Originally posted by Pheace


 
 
That sounds incredibly annoying with the long casting bars I've seen in some video. I would've preferred you get the shot off at least but you hit whatever is in the way

I was also thinking that shooting through other players would be advantageous, but I believe Mythic wants players to utilize CD and LoS to tactical advantage.

 

This way you WILL be able to "hide" behind a tough tank (or terrain) to break LoS.

Also, I think the LoS check that comes at the end of the progress bar, when the shot is actually fired, is a good way to determine LoS.  In some other games, the LoS check was done as soon as you pressed your button to fire the shot, which resulted in players complaining of "no-fair!" shots which would pass directly through solid objects two or three seconds AFTER you had taken cover to break LoS.

What this means to me is:

~ Use of terrain will be important.

~ Use of tactical battle formations will be important.

~ "Shield Walls" (or just plain old "Meat Shields"  ) will be important.

~ Taking the high ground -- as in real warfare -- will be important.

Overall, I think the use of CD and LoS is going to make for a game of strategic maneuvering and proper battle formations.

In the beginning we will all be newbies, but as time passes we will understand how large-scale combat works and just what needs to be done to effectively position our forces.

To me this means ... we'll have to use strategies with more depth than just, "Charge!" in order to win the day.

 

 

I'm not sure on one part of that yet. I wouldn't be surprised that you wouldn't still get the "go through object" things if an item fires and between it reaching the target you duck behind something, you'll probably still get hit.

 

I wasn't saying we should shoot through players, but if something got in the way we should hit *that* instead, not just lose the cast alltogether. Maybe add a -50% damage modifier to that hit  for missing the intended target.

Sornin

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I wasn't saying we should shoot through players, but if something got in the way we should hit *that* instead, not just lose the cast alltogether.

---

This is what I was thinking as well. It would make sense for "bolt" spells to hit whatever gets in their way first, as long as it is an enemy - I do not even think a negative damage modifier is needed. I do not think hitting friendlies who got in the way would work out well, and collision detection is not applied to them, anyway.

If there were "shock" type spells, ones that originate at the target and thus do not have to travel, obviously LOS should not really matter for those. I think so long as you can see the target when you first start casting, that should be enough, since you already have a bead on them and are not directing the spell to them, but merely focusing on them.

I always have favoured a system where bolt spells are cumbersome but powerful, if executed well, and shock spells are simple but weaker. This was sort of true in EverQuest 1, to an extent, but I would love to see a system completely built around it. That way, if you want to lay down the 3,000 damage nuke from hell, you need to make sure the bolt can get to the target unimpeded, but if you want to settle for the 1,000 damage nuke, you can pull that off easily.

It would be funny if there was a bolt that travelled really slowly (like, running speed, at best), but did a tremendous amount of damage if it actually struck the intended target. The catch would of course be that it could be dodged or maybe deflected by an ally paying attention - give those tanks with shields a purpose.

Sadly, it is much simpler to implement a system that checks LOS at some specified point and then either flags the cast a success or fail, which is likely what WAR will do, I suppose.

SpiritofGame

 

Originally posted by Pheace
I'm not sure on one part of that yet. I wouldn't be surprised that you wouldn't still get the "go through object" things if an item fires and between it reaching the target you duck behind something, you'll probably still get hit.
I wasn't saying we should shoot through players, but if something got in the way we should hit *that* instead, not just lose the cast alltogether. Maybe add a -50% damage modifier to that hit  for missing the intended target.

Let me update this.  I just did a bit more research.

 

Over on the Only-WAR.com message boards there is a thread discussing this situation and many of the posters said that CD will only involve ENEMY players.

If this is the case, then perhaps LoS will also only be affected by ENEMY players -- and not those on your own side.  If that is so, then I suppose you will not only be able to pass through friendlies but also to shoot through them as if they weren't even there -- I think that would make sense.

Also, you make a good point that it still may be possible to get hit by shots even though you have taken cover since the LoS is checked as the spell or shot is fired (and not when it hits).  So, yes, there probably still will be those "WTF?!" shots.  Oh well.

If the CD and LoS is not affected by friendies, this might be a bit more workable from a tactical point of view allowing you to fire through the frontlines at enemies without friendlies blocking LoS.

 

Whiskeyjack1

 

Originally posted by SpiritofGame


 
Originally posted by Pheace
I'm not sure on one part of that yet. I wouldn't be surprised that you wouldn't still get the "go through object" things if an item fires and between it reaching the target you duck behind something, you'll probably still get hit.
I wasn't saying we should shoot through players, but if something got in the way we should hit *that* instead, not just lose the cast alltogether. Maybe add a -50% damage modifier to that hit  for missing the intended target.

Let me update this.  I just did a bit more research.

 

Over on the Only-WAR.com message boards there is a thread discussing this situation and many of the posters said that CD will only involve ENEMY players.

If this is the case, then perhaps LoS will also only be affected by ENEMY players -- and not those on your own side.  If that is so, then I suppose you will not only be able to pass through friendlies but also to shoot through them as if they weren't even there -- I think that would make sense.

Also, you make a good point that it still may be possible to get hit by shots even though you have taken cover since the LoS is checked as the spell or shot is fired (and not when it hits).  So, yes, there probably still will be those "WTF?!" shots.  Oh well.

If the CD and LoS is not affected by friendies, this might be a bit more workable from a tactical point of view allowing you to fire through the frontlines at enemies without friendlies blocking LoS.

 

That's how to my knowledge that it works ( in the built i've tried at gamesday anyway).  If not , CD is useless. You could just shoot at the squishies thru the opposing tanks . That's why in the few Bright wizards and other ranged classes videos ,  they go up on rocks and structures . Using terrain to maximize there LOS on the battlefield and maximising there target acquisition. 

It even make sense in a realistic kind way. Hiding behind someone , you could  shoot over his shoulder pretty easy , While enemies could not really get a clear shot at you,  having a much bigger target blocking there LOS.