We want balance, but do we WANT it?

Xanrae

Something posted over at the TR forums got me thinking. People complained that the weapons are all the same in power, so weapon choice does not matter. Its greatest competitor to the bottom, Hellgate London actually has a very similar issue in that it does not matter which skills you take.

One could say those games have achieved balance: all possible weapons, or skills, are equally viable.

If they were not, people would most likely complain that their weapons/skills suck and demand better balance! Many ask for respecs in an RPG so they can change their build to the currently most powerful one.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that most players of any game ask for improved balance, but when a game is balanced, they complain that their choices have no impact?

Silluete

people always call the game imbalance when they can't be the "best" or get owned by others. thats why in single player games there is no such thing called imbalance because in single player games u r is the best

Xanrae

I believe balance is more important in single player and PvM.

In these modes, you are not playing against other people - the game itself is meant to provide enough of a challenge to be fun. And unlike in a competitive multiplayer environment, only you can abuse the balance issues, the monsters cannot. As a result, things get too easy and boring.

ZarVex

There should be ups and downs to every choice a player makes...

Example: class,race, weapons, armor.

They should each have there own ups and downs.

Rayalist

Everyone wants a game that's mostly balanced, but then there's those few that whine because they don't want to change tactics when faced with a counter to their current build. Either the whiners accept that they can't win every time or we just ignore them!

Sramota

Everyone wants to be able to beat everyone
that doesn't mean everyone has to have the same playstyle

Some prefer sneaking, some prefer running head first in and look their enemies in the eye, som prefer to sit as far as way as possible and some prefer to let others to the work for them..

That doesn't mean all weapons have to be exactly the same now does it?

I for one WANT balance, but by that I don't WANT equal opportunity at all times.

Meltdown

People may disagree, but I think WoW has one of the most fair PvP systems. I won't say "balanced" because it is the rock paper scissors approach. Not everyone has the same strengths and weakness, but just because you are rock, doesn't mean you don't stand a chance against paper, it just means it won't be a breeze =p

One thing that has always bothered me is that with this system any slight change to a class causes a "flavor of the week" swing in the class balance and causes every Tom, Dick and Harry in the world to reroll as that class because they are powerful now. Currently what comes to mind was the changes they made to Hunters to make them viable in the arenas.

PvM class balance "should" be a lot easier to implement. But I agree with OP, complete "balance" is LAME, we want "fair" not "balanced".

SioBabble

Originally posted by Rayalist


Everyone wants a game that's mostly balanced, but then there's those few that whine because they don't want to change tactics when faced with a counter to their current build. Either the whiners accept that they can't win every time or we just ignore them!

All too often in SWG during the preCU days, as the devs eventually got around to fixing things that were broken, they'd create situations where screaming crybabies would get pwned, which immediately resulted in cries for nerfs.

Then you had the defense stackers who invested every last skill point in defense stacking boxes, and when they got totally pwned by a combat medic, they'd scream louder than a pack of fambaa in the streets of Theed.

ladyattis

---

Originally posted by Sramota
Everyone wants to be able to beat everyone
that doesn't mean everyone has to have the same playstyleSome prefer sneaking, some prefer running head first in and look their enemies in the eye, som prefer to sit as far as way as possible and some prefer to let others to the work for them..That doesn't mean all weapons have to be exactly the same now does it?I for one WANT balance, but by that I don't WANT equal opportunity at all times.

---

This.

k9wazere

I think devs should largely ignore people who complain about balance.

 

The only true guarantee of balance is absolute equality. And I would hope that few people are in favour of this, as it would kill class diversity.

 

People will always find new ways to play their class; new ways to use their skills. Sometimes this will result in someone, somewhere being unprepared and taking a beating. Unfortunately, some people will immediately start talking about imbalance - hell, I've been guilty of it myself on one occasion.

 

So of course forums get more than their fair share of complaints about imbalance. And because people post all sorts of stuff when they're angry, that is good reason for devs to largely ingore such posts.

Godliest

Being the same in power isn't the same as being balanced. A weapon can have it's ups and downs that affect how they work, if this is balanced it's a balanced game. For that sake it doesn't mean that if all weapons are the same they are balanced. They are kind of balanced but it's all just one weapon so it's not really anything to balance.

k9wazere

Originally posted by Godliest


Being the same in power isn't the same as being balanced. A weapon can have it's ups and downs that affect how they work, if this is balanced it's a balanced game. For that sake it doesn't mean that if all weapons are the same they are balanced. They are kind of balanced but it's all just one weapon so it's not really anything to balance.

People don't always see it that way. A knight may have high defense and low DPS, a berserker may have low defense and high DPS. That doesn't stop some people complaining that they are not balanced, because they want more DPS from their knight.

 

I've seen it too many times. People will always complain about the perceived deficiencies of their class, while conveniently ignoring the strengths.

HYPERI0N

I think there is a difference between balance and BALANCE.

 

balance is where every weapon is more or less the same strength but different in appearance and animated effect, which is fine i suppose but means it doesnt matter what weapon you use as they are all the same.

 

BALANCE however is where for example all weapons are SIMILAR in power except for example one weapon is say 3 times more powerful and has an insanely long range BUT it has a low ammo count say 3 rounds and takes say 5 seconds between shots. While the other weapon is standard damage strength but has a shorter range than normal but also fires say once every 0.2 seconds with a 27% chance of a damage hit of say 5 times strength.

 

Then what you have is one weapon that's good for long range combat and the other weapon is good for close range combat. In other words a system where you have varying strengths and weaknesses in the weapons themselves that also create different combat styles in the same class [assuming your game has classes].

BuzWeaver

If it works to your advantage its a balance, if it works to your disadvantage its a nurf.

Shibley911

First of all, I like being able to use different weps, no mater the goodness of it. So, here are some characteristics of weapons that could help you.....range of a wepon, speed, power, weight (in some games), and that is all I can think of. Hope i helped!

Munkyman1

Lol no one wants balance, everyone wants to be on top.  But what i look/hope for in a game soon is a game that makes it so that no matter how you build your character ( you know withing reason of course) there is a purpose and use for your character in PVE/PVP/Group content.  my lil rant. peace