I was kind of disappointed to read about the death penalty being nerfed. I like games that come with a bit of risk. Although having not played the game I can't comment on this change too much. I plan on giving the trial a go sometime.
I've been playing D&D for over 20 years, yes I am 'that' old. And when I say that the clerics I have teamed with are elitist snobs that know nothing about playing a support class I mean exactly that. Now it could be that I have had bad luck in the groups I have found, but I'm not an idiot, and not a zerger.
One dwarf cleric I teamed with quit healing completely in one quest I was in because one member of the party refused to wait on him to shrine and went to explore. Now I admit that it was a foolish thing to do, but the guy was like 8 or 10, you could tell from his voice, and the cleric was mad because we didn't do anything to stop him. Which wasn't true because we told him several times not to run off, but the cleric just up and quit healing, causing the whole group to wipe. Then he had the audacity to say that it was our fault for not restraining the kid.
Another time I am making a group, and I invite this cleric, who doesn't tell me up front, but lets me find out part way through the quest that he is a 'battle cleric' and instead of staying back and healing, he feels the need to wade into battle like a second rate tank, once again resulting in a group wipe. Which resulted in me having to ask every time I made a group, whether or not the cleric was a 'healer'.
I don't have to make this stuff up, and I honestly wish I were. Almost every cleric I teamed with had this attitude that the whole party revolved around him, and unfortunately it often did. And when you complain that the healer isn't doing his job, he bitches about wasting spell points, and says that I should have came loaded with healing pots, which are egregiously expensive, and really don't heal for very much at all. When I have to down 10 pots to get through a battle when I am tanking because the healer won't waste sp on me because he's too busy healing the mage who hasn't got the sense to attack the same creature I am and starts spamming AoE attacks and complaining that I am not doing my job...*whew* Here I am with my tower shield and +3 adamantine full plate and I am taking hits like I've fashioned my armor out of used tin cans.
The game isn't group centric, it's healer centric, and there are very few good ones.
I've been playing D&D for over 20 years, yes I am 'that' old. And when I say that the clerics I have teamed with are elitist snobs that know nothing about playing a support class I mean exactly that. Now it could be that I have had bad luck in the groups I have found, but I'm not an idiot, and not a zerger. One dwarf cleric I teamed with quit healing completely in one quest I was in because one member of the party refused to wait on him to shrine and went to explore. Now I admit that it was a foolish thing to do, but the guy was like 8 or 10, you could tell from his voice, and the cleric was mad because we didn't do anything to stop him. Which wasn't true because we told him several times not to run off, but the cleric just up and quit healing, causing the whole group to wipe. Then he had the audacity to say that it was our fault for not restraining the kid. Another time I am making a group, and I invite this cleric, who doesn't tell me up front, but lets me find out part way through the quest that he is a 'battle cleric' and instead of staying back and healing, he feels the need to wade into battle like a second rate tank, once again resulting in a group wipe. Which resulted in me having to ask every time I made a group, whether or not the cleric was a 'healer'. I don't have to make this stuff up, and I honestly wish I were. Almost every cleric I teamed with had this attitude that the whole party revolved around him, and unfortunately it often did. And when you complain that the healer isn't doing his job, he bitches about wasting spell points, and says that I should have came loaded with healing pots, which are egregiously expensive, and really don't heal for very much at all. When I have to down 10 pots to get through a battle when I am tanking because the healer won't waste sp on me because he's too busy healing the mage who hasn't got the sense to attack the same creature I am and starts spamming AoE attacks and complaining that I am not doing my job...*whew* Here I am with my tower shield and +3 adamantine full plate and I am taking hits like I've fashioned my armor out of used tin cans. The game isn't group centric, it's healer centric, and there are very few good ones.
I don't doubt that you've had bad experiences, though I would blame it more on the PUGs than on clerics in general. As a cleric, I would use my sp to heal the tanks first - keeping them above 50% [I've read about tanks that want to be healed full at all times regardless of the condition of the rest of the party], then worry about the rest. The level of the group makes a bit of difference here, though, as a cleric below 9th level won't have raise dead to use on the mage [or whomever] that drops - making keeping the foolish mage alive a priority [until the tank gets close to dropping, then it's decision time!]. Then again, since I don't play in PUGs [I don't group at all since my buddies tried it and left early on], I guess my playstyle doesn't much matter
Clerics aren't the only healers... Bards, rogues with scrolls, potions... there are many ways to heal in DDO [and D&D in general]. IF you build a good party [again, I won't PUG, so I'm not sure if that is truly possible outside of a guild], you shouldn't see the problems that you have.
One other thing that stands out in your post - possibly not intentially - is that you seem to imply that YOUR class is more important, and that the other classes are there only to SUPPORT your class. That may not have been your intention, or be your position, but that seems to come across.
Oh - to the other posters: about the no HoT in instances - Mod 6 notes mentioned that incapacitated characters that stabilized would regain hp at a certain rate. That lead me to believe that HoT either was or would soon be occurring in instances. If not, does it mean that you would regain hp to 0 then need to be healed by a party member, or would you regain to 1 and be able to heal yourself [provided you weren't immediately struck down by whatever dropped you in the first place]? I would ask on the official boards, but am not subbed atm.
EDIT: NM - I found the part in the relase notes: You DO regen to 1 hp after stabilizing!
Support class just refers to a class that uses their abilities to heal/buff/debuff. I'm not saying they are there to support me personally, but the group as a whole. I bash clerics in that game a lot because the party is very dependant on them. I've had a lot of problems with stupid fighters too, don't get me wrong, but it is rare that one fighter being dumb ended up killing the whole group, where as if the cleric didn't know what he was doing, or decided to get up and grab a sandwich without warning, the whole group got wiped. I was using a tower shield and wearing some pretty good armor and the mobs were still hitting me for ungodly amounts of damage. Tank classes are way underpowered in DDO, which was one of the reasons I didn't like the game very much.
I played DDO for a while and got to level 7. It's a good game, but a lot like CoH it's completely group based, and everything is instanced. Many days I sat around trying to find a group, but everyone was too busy standing around at the auctioneer. You have to repeat the same quests so many times that you get sick of them, and I found that the clerics either felt like they were the most important members of the team and you HAD to listen to them, or they were battle clerics and couldn't be bothered to heal anyone. The people all seemed pretty friendly, except for the clerics who, for the most part, were a bunch of elitist snobs. Mages do too much damage for a fighter to keep aggro off of them, and fighter taunts are almost completely ineffective. It's an issue of the GM's trying to make each class capable of soloing, in a game where no one solos, and no one even knows the definition of 'support' class. That and the PvP is a joke. If you aren't a Mage or a Cleric, don't bother. Turbine should have stuck by AC2 rather than ripping it's costumers off, then making a bunch of niche' games. DDO has already done a server merge, and I feel it is headed for the recycle bin with AC2 pretty soon.
Everything you said there is not entirely true, and giving people who might look at it negative thoughts.
DDO was not designed for PvP at all and hopefully never will. I do not believe it is a niche game, over 2 years, it has doubled in content since launch... That's something to be very proud of. Clerics are not needed at all, in fact, most of my Permadeath play is without a cleric or any healing class. DDO focuses on tactics more than roles of classes. Taunting in DDO is a skill (Intimidate) not a given ability like in other MMO's. There are TONS of people who solo in DDO, what are you talking about? Also, level 7 you havent even raided yet.. Raids in DDO take tactics to a new level and everyone must cooperate or else you fail.
Perhaps giving DDO another look with a more optimistic side and hitting raiding levels may change your mind, but even if it doesn't, players that don't appreciate DDO for what it gives that other MMO's have never touched should not be playing, so if that is the case, so be it.
I played DDO for a while and got to level 7. It's a good game, but a lot like CoH it's completely group based, and everything is instanced. Many days I sat around trying to find a group, but everyone was too busy standing around at the auctioneer. You have to repeat the same quests so many times that you get sick of them, and I found that the clerics either felt like they were the most important members of the team and you HAD to listen to them, or they were battle clerics and couldn't be bothered to heal anyone. The people all seemed pretty friendly, except for the clerics who, for the most part, were a bunch of elitist snobs. Mages do too much damage for a fighter to keep aggro off of them, and fighter taunts are almost completely ineffective. It's an issue of the GM's trying to make each class capable of soloing, in a game where no one solos, and no one even knows the definition of 'support' class. That and the PvP is a joke. If you aren't a Mage or a Cleric, don't bother. Turbine should have stuck by AC2 rather than ripping it's costumers off, then making a bunch of niche' games. DDO has already done a server merge, and I feel it is headed for the recycle bin with AC2 pretty soon.
Everything you said there is not entirely true, and giving people who might look at it negative thoughts.
DDO was not designed for PvP at all and hopefully never will. I do not believe it is a niche game, over 2 years, it has doubled in content since launch... That's something to be very proud of. Clerics are not needed at all, in fact, most of my Permadeath play is without a cleric or any healing class. DDO focuses on tactics more than roles of classes. Taunting in DDO is a skill (Intimidate) not a given ability like in other MMO's. There are TONS of people who solo in DDO, what are you talking about? Also, level 7 you havent even raided yet.. Raids in DDO take tactics to a new level and everyone must cooperate or else you fail.
Perhaps giving DDO another look with a more optimistic side and hitting raiding levels may change your mind, but even if it doesn't, players that don't appreciate DDO for what it gives that other MMO's have never touched should not be playing, so if that is the case, so be it.
Yeah. I'm not here to argue, or even defend my position, I just gave what my thoughts were after playing the game for a little over a month. I may not have had the same experience as other people, but I related the experiences I had in my own way, with my own words, so that it may discourage others who are looking at the game from playing it. Not because I have a personal grudge against the game, as much as it may look like I do, but in order to give a balanced critique of the game for others who may be thinking about playing it. Do I have to start all of my sentences with; In my opinion? Yeah, quests have solo settings, but *in my opinion* the xp you get from doing quests solo is pretty weak. Yes, you can do quests solo, or even on easy dif without a cleric, but if you are playing the game to get to the levels where you can 'raid' then you will want to group in order to level faster, and if you are playing on elite without a cleric or a healer and you are surviving, then my hat is off to you, because from my experience it's impossible. Is DDO any worse than most of the games out there? No. If this was the WoW forum I'd be ranting about how much I hate that game. But this is DDO, and I don't hate it, just don't care for it. Maybe had I stuck around long enough to get into a good guild, or any guild at all, I would have had a better time. But I was pretty much just casually trying the game out for something to do in my spare time, and these were the impressions that I got.
Figure I would follow up here sense this was the article after all that got my interest back up. WOW guys what a change! I am very pleased with this game now, the only thing I can say is , if you ever liked it but was like me in the aspects of "its missing that certain something" and "where is the dam solo content!" and finally "whats with all the kids!" now it's great
So far having a blast and have even gotten to places I have never been before, suprisingly allot of people I am meeting are now the older folks, who like me, don't rush the game to level out, but enjoy it for the story, immersion and versititly no other game offers.
With all the new stuff, this will keep me busy for sometime to come, very happy about this because now any interest in my AOC or WAR is out the window. I thought POTBS was good in beta, it just flopped in retail for me, so I am loving this one thou.
You old timers out there, if you ever thought about coming back, this is the time, oh and population? wow allot of people all the time amazingly, actually really fun!
salu!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Comments
Ok that's a better excuse. I'll allow it, haha
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I was kind of disappointed to read about the death penalty being nerfed. I like games that come with a bit of risk. Although having not played the game I can't comment on this change too much. I plan on giving the trial a go sometime.
I've been playing D&D for over 20 years, yes I am 'that' old. And when I say that the clerics I have teamed with are elitist snobs that know nothing about playing a support class I mean exactly that. Now it could be that I have had bad luck in the groups I have found, but I'm not an idiot, and not a zerger.
One dwarf cleric I teamed with quit healing completely in one quest I was in because one member of the party refused to wait on him to shrine and went to explore. Now I admit that it was a foolish thing to do, but the guy was like 8 or 10, you could tell from his voice, and the cleric was mad because we didn't do anything to stop him. Which wasn't true because we told him several times not to run off, but the cleric just up and quit healing, causing the whole group to wipe. Then he had the audacity to say that it was our fault for not restraining the kid.
Another time I am making a group, and I invite this cleric, who doesn't tell me up front, but lets me find out part way through the quest that he is a 'battle cleric' and instead of staying back and healing, he feels the need to wade into battle like a second rate tank, once again resulting in a group wipe. Which resulted in me having to ask every time I made a group, whether or not the cleric was a 'healer'.
I don't have to make this stuff up, and I honestly wish I were. Almost every cleric I teamed with had this attitude that the whole party revolved around him, and unfortunately it often did. And when you complain that the healer isn't doing his job, he bitches about wasting spell points, and says that I should have came loaded with healing pots, which are egregiously expensive, and really don't heal for very much at all. When I have to down 10 pots to get through a battle when I am tanking because the healer won't waste sp on me because he's too busy healing the mage who hasn't got the sense to attack the same creature I am and starts spamming AoE attacks and complaining that I am not doing my job...*whew* Here I am with my tower shield and +3 adamantine full plate and I am taking hits like I've fashioned my armor out of used tin cans.
The game isn't group centric, it's healer centric, and there are very few good ones.
Here is the new Mod 6 Splash Screen. Mod 6 is now live.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I don't doubt that you've had bad experiences, though I would blame it more on the PUGs than on clerics in general. As a cleric, I would use my sp to heal the tanks first - keeping them above 50% [I've read about tanks that want to be healed full at all times regardless of the condition of the rest of the party], then worry about the rest. The level of the group makes a bit of difference here, though, as a cleric below 9th level won't have raise dead to use on the mage [or whomever] that drops - making keeping the foolish mage alive a priority [until the tank gets close to dropping, then it's decision time!]. Then again, since I don't play in PUGs [I don't group at all since my buddies tried it and left early on], I guess my playstyle doesn't much matter
Clerics aren't the only healers... Bards, rogues with scrolls, potions... there are many ways to heal in DDO [and D&D in general]. IF you build a good party [again, I won't PUG, so I'm not sure if that is truly possible outside of a guild], you shouldn't see the problems that you have.
One other thing that stands out in your post - possibly not intentially - is that you seem to imply that YOUR class is more important, and that the other classes are there only to SUPPORT your class. That may not have been your intention, or be your position, but that seems to come across.
Oh - to the other posters: about the no HoT in instances - Mod 6 notes mentioned that incapacitated characters that stabilized would regain hp at a certain rate. That lead me to believe that HoT either was or would soon be occurring in instances. If not, does it mean that you would regain hp to 0 then need to be healed by a party member, or would you regain to 1 and be able to heal yourself [provided you weren't immediately struck down by whatever dropped you in the first place]? I would ask on the official boards, but am not subbed atm.
EDIT: NM - I found the part in the relase notes: You DO regen to 1 hp after stabilizing!
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
Support class just refers to a class that uses their abilities to heal/buff/debuff. I'm not saying they are there to support me personally, but the group as a whole. I bash clerics in that game a lot because the party is very dependant on them. I've had a lot of problems with stupid fighters too, don't get me wrong, but it is rare that one fighter being dumb ended up killing the whole group, where as if the cleric didn't know what he was doing, or decided to get up and grab a sandwich without warning, the whole group got wiped. I was using a tower shield and wearing some pretty good armor and the mobs were still hitting me for ungodly amounts of damage. Tank classes are way underpowered in DDO, which was one of the reasons I didn't like the game very much.
DDO was not designed for PvP at all and hopefully never will. I do not believe it is a niche game, over 2 years, it has doubled in content since launch... That's something to be very proud of. Clerics are not needed at all, in fact, most of my Permadeath play is without a cleric or any healing class. DDO focuses on tactics more than roles of classes. Taunting in DDO is a skill (Intimidate) not a given ability like in other MMO's. There are TONS of people who solo in DDO, what are you talking about? Also, level 7 you havent even raided yet.. Raids in DDO take tactics to a new level and everyone must cooperate or else you fail.
Perhaps giving DDO another look with a more optimistic side and hitting raiding levels may change your mind, but even if it doesn't, players that don't appreciate DDO for what it gives that other MMO's have never touched should not be playing, so if that is the case, so be it.
DDO was not designed for PvP at all and hopefully never will. I do not believe it is a niche game, over 2 years, it has doubled in content since launch... That's something to be very proud of. Clerics are not needed at all, in fact, most of my Permadeath play is without a cleric or any healing class. DDO focuses on tactics more than roles of classes. Taunting in DDO is a skill (Intimidate) not a given ability like in other MMO's. There are TONS of people who solo in DDO, what are you talking about? Also, level 7 you havent even raided yet.. Raids in DDO take tactics to a new level and everyone must cooperate or else you fail.
Perhaps giving DDO another look with a more optimistic side and hitting raiding levels may change your mind, but even if it doesn't, players that don't appreciate DDO for what it gives that other MMO's have never touched should not be playing, so if that is the case, so be it.
Yeah. I'm not here to argue, or even defend my position, I just gave what my thoughts were after playing the game for a little over a month. I may not have had the same experience as other people, but I related the experiences I had in my own way, with my own words, so that it may discourage others who are looking at the game from playing it. Not because I have a personal grudge against the game, as much as it may look like I do, but in order to give a balanced critique of the game for others who may be thinking about playing it. Do I have to start all of my sentences with; In my opinion? Yeah, quests have solo settings, but *in my opinion* the xp you get from doing quests solo is pretty weak. Yes, you can do quests solo, or even on easy dif without a cleric, but if you are playing the game to get to the levels where you can 'raid' then you will want to group in order to level faster, and if you are playing on elite without a cleric or a healer and you are surviving, then my hat is off to you, because from my experience it's impossible. Is DDO any worse than most of the games out there? No. If this was the WoW forum I'd be ranting about how much I hate that game. But this is DDO, and I don't hate it, just don't care for it. Maybe had I stuck around long enough to get into a good guild, or any guild at all, I would have had a better time. But I was pretty much just casually trying the game out for something to do in my spare time, and these were the impressions that I got.
Figure I would follow up here sense this was the article after all that got my interest back up. WOW guys what a change! I am very pleased with this game now, the only thing I can say is , if you ever liked it but was like me in the aspects of "its missing that certain something" and "where is the dam solo content!" and finally "whats with all the kids!" now it's great
So far having a blast and have even gotten to places I have never been before, suprisingly allot of people I am meeting are now the older folks, who like me, don't rush the game to level out, but enjoy it for the story, immersion and versititly no other game offers.
With all the new stuff, this will keep me busy for sometime to come, very happy about this because now any interest in my AOC or WAR is out the window. I thought POTBS was good in beta, it just flopped in retail for me, so I am loving this one thou.
You old timers out there, if you ever thought about coming back, this is the time, oh and population? wow allot of people all the time amazingly, actually really fun!
salu!
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"