I was invited to that damn beta more times than I want to remember. I tried it once, realized the combat aspect of it was absolutely ridiculous, uninstalled it and will NEVER look back. If you are enjoying it, great! I hear many people are, but it is not my cup of tea...
actually bioware's mmorpg is slated for 2009, or so i read...so as of right now..AoC i cancelled the preorder....too many things i didnt like about it, WAR is hanging by a thread for me...i am still hoping on the Bioware mmorpg....and anything star warsy
I was invited to that damn beta more times than I want to remember. I tried it once, realized the combat aspect of it was absolutely ridiculous, uninstalled it and will NEVER look back. If you are enjoying it, great! I hear many people are, but it is not my cup of tea...
Definitely not a game for everyone. This game is for people who like sailing and strategy games, I think. The combat can be slow and strategic, which won’t be for everyone, but I think some people will dig it very much.
I was invited to that damn beta more times than I want to remember. I tried it once, realized the combat aspect of it was absolutely ridiculous, uninstalled it and will NEVER look back. If you are enjoying it, great! I hear many people are, but it is not my cup of tea...
Definitely not a game for everyone. This game is for people who like sailing and strategy games, I think. The combat can be slow and strategic, which won’t be for everyone, but I think some people will dig it very much.
You bring up a valid point. I do not like RTS games because it forces you to have "patience!" I have patience to an extent, but slow combat intertwined with some strategy to me is just boring. I know people in my guild who have played it, most did not like it...but the people who did like it said it was awesome! Best of luck in your sailing adventures!
To the OP, I think you have to understand is that game development is probably just as slow, if not slower, than general software development. It's hard to imagine why, but it's pretty obvious when you consider that computers themselves although being very new have some basic assumptions attached. In this case, MMOs are the most sluggish due to the assumption that each and every MMO must reflect the prevailing 'standard,' in this case, WoW is the prevailing standard.
How do developers break out of that without a significant degree of alienation (because if you've ever played older MMOs and noticed how their mechanics even their UIs are different from so-called modern MMOs, you'll notice they're very different from one and other (DAOC from AC, EQ1 from UO, Entropia Universe from AO, and so on...))? One way is to accept that UI mechanics should stay a certain way, but that under-the-hood changes are needed from the WoW 'standard.' For example, the dps model that WoW uses is an *old* one (I can bet you 50 USD that half the code references THAC and other old die roll mechanics that were ported to MUDs almost three decades ago even in WoW), which needs to be *totally removed* or *redesigned* with *significant* modifications such as real time 'interruption' or aiming (as AoC is doing with their aiming system and hit boxes, and WAR is doing with the translation of morale to their game).
All in all, both AoC and WAR are breaking the under-the-hood mold of WoW (which is the real child of EQ1 with respect to the dps model and PVE focus) in significant ways even beyond their modification of the dps model for combat. In this case, AoC plans to bring player contested territories to make end game not focused on raiding (although there are raid zones from the videos I've seen on GameTrailers), and WAR is making PVP the fulcrum of the PVE experience (raids and all) along with their RVR model for PVP.
It is no secret that MMORPG's didnt get much love since that fate defining 2004 when WOW launched.
Love it or hate it - it shaped the future of MMOs for years to come. 4 years have passed and some people , including me - that do not like WOW are patiently waiting. Not for MMO that will kill WOW. I do not care. WOW has its own subscriber base, and it certanly appeals to lot of people. Not for MMO that will have larger subscriber base , or will steal WOW subscriber base...no. I am waiting for a MMO that will be BETTER than WOW - MMO that will do word MMORPG justice! But for 4 years, all we have seen are meager attempts GW that was not really MMO, AA that was to niche, DDO that was not really a MMO.Not to count various MMOs that turned out to be simply not functioning as promised....
But the biggest fail of MMOs was VANGUARD For Vanguard was everything MMO player could wish for: Hugamonguous world , plethora of races and classes , sandboxy gameplay , building ,crafting ,trading ,pvp, and all this made by the original great minds of MMOs When Vanguard turned to be just another "failure" - many people here were furious. But i think actually just heart broken. Because their dream was shattered.
But we kept looking to future releases, and hoping AOC and WAR proved to be the next contendants on "Give me a quality MMO" throne But they got delayed and delayed... 2007 passed...promise of 2008...delay again
My question is what if AOC and WAR prove to be yet another failed promise ?
All the delays upon delays "for polishing" do not sound good for AOC. Merged classes , ommited features , completely re-done original combat system. It sounds to me that something is very wrong internally. They got good idea but it didnt work well in action. And what about WAR ? Some people doubt that it will be released in 2008 at all. The videos show very static gameplay , graphic more akin to 2004. And not to forget a game that is leaning towards being just a big WOW BG. I HOPE NOT!
But I ask you. What if AOC and WAR prove to be simply meager games ?
What do we MMO players have to look forward to ? Another 4 years of waiting ? Because i do not see any other serious MMO announced before 2012..
www.play-earthrise.com
Thats the next mmo you should wait for if AoC and WAR dont deliver.
All the delays upon delays "for polishing" do not sound good for AOC. Merged classes , ommited features , completely re-done original combat system. It sounds to me that something is very wrong internally. They got good idea but it didnt work well in action. And what about WAR ? Some people doubt that it will be released in 2008 at all. The videos show very static gameplay , graphic more akin to 2004. And not to forget a game that is leaning towards being just a big WOW BG.
first of all: Funcom is a company that never cared much about mainstream or mainstreaming and that chooses vision over safe bet.
AO was one of the greatest MMORPGs ever made and the direction they go with AoC is all but standard approach.
better merged classes than imbalanced ones. why do you play AoC? because of a certain class? why do you think they have a beta test? maybe they figured out that this might work better. it has nothing to do with broken promises.
and to WAR: yes, I am very disappointed in the graphics, but they really seem to work hard on making the game balanced and especially to merge PvE and PvP in some fashion... I think WAR will be very polished when it comes out.
people always complain about rushed products and then they complain when games are not rushed.
My money is on the DC MMO, which I will wager releasee in 2008/2009.
My theory is that SWG tested out a new physics and gameplay style with their NGE. SOE knew the SWG license wasn't going anywhere, so they figured they would use the live SWG as a testing mechanism for how they will pull off their superhero MMO.
Mark my words, this will be probably the best MMO released in a long time because it is getting a lot of resource and attention from SOE, and because SOE is doing things the right way, by not saying squat about it until release.
Thats right, ol' Smed learned himself a lesson. This will give him a great opportunity to test out his 'pay for exclusive content' theory, as the comic book world is ripe for it. I also predict that this will be heads and shoulders above the Marvel MMO, and release way ahead of it too. Marvel Online will be a carbon copy of CoH/CoV with new features while the DC MMO will be designed from the ground up and probably be the first actual "next-gen" MMO.
My money is on the DC MMO, which I will wager releasee in 2008/2009. My theory is that SWG tested out a new physics and gameplay style with their NGE. SOE knew the SWG license wasn't going anywhere, so they figured they would use the live SWG as a testing mechanism for how they will pull off their superhero MMO. Mark my words, this will be probably the best MMO released in a long time because it is getting a lot of resource and attention from SOE, and because SOE is doing things the right way, by not saying squat about it until release. Thats right, ol' Smed learned himself a lesson. This will give him a great opportunity to test out his 'pay for exclusive content' theory, as the comic book world is ripe for it. I also predict that this will be heads and shoulders above the Marvel MMO, and release way ahead of it too. Marvel Online will be a carbon copy of CoH/CoV with new features while the DC MMO will be designed from the ground up and probably be the first actual "next-gen" MMO.
sounds nice but do you realize how every big out-of-gaming licence based MMORPG ends up in ruins (NGE) or already sarts out as a pure catastrophic failure like DDO, The matrix online, and so on?
the best games are based on, well, games. on gaming world concepts. Ultima -> Ultima online. Everquest -> Everquest 2, Warcraft - WoW, and so on, or are simply newly developed, like Guild Wars or EVE online.
nobody needs licenses. They "guarantee" sales and are therefore prone to poor development and cost cutting. They guarantee instant interest in the product and are therefore prone to poor features or anything that would make people really interested in them. They also stand for total lack of originality because , well, they are ripoffs by definition.
A license distracts from the content and the design.
look at solo games. almost every game based on a movie/comic license sucks.
and another thing: Marvel's world is at least filled with a lot of cartoon caracters (I find the term superheroes just ridiculous). DC has Batman and Superman. big deal. I don't want to talk about quality here. DC is just as bad or good as Marvel. But MMORPG games need diversity. CoV / CoH did a very good job with that. I think the DC universe is probably the worst possible for a game background.
For me, the MMOs doesn't have to be that much, I never ask for that much. I only ask for a game which, focus on grouping-PvE...and recently I add which never, never, never nerf me.
See, to have a chance to get your hopes accomplished, you need to have hopes which are realistic.
When I left EQ, the only thing I was asking was EQ-without raiding enforcement. I never ask for more. I got City of Heroes/Villains, which fills in nicely. Now that I left CoV, I don't ask for the moon or something impossible, I just ask for a CoV-without the nerfing. (nerfs are really bad for achievers in the long run, especially if the game..."lack" achievements)
The game could just be an EQ without raiding and without nerfing, I would be just as happy. I am that nice and that simple.
I never really believe in AoC or WAR, so if they are good, well, it would be a pleasant surprised. But AoC is just alien. WAR is like those ex-slaves, they free themselves and now they made slaves of everyone else...I rather be with the original master, he is less cruel. But, I can also just run away until I find a neat little MMO to play.
I will likely falls in love with a MMO I would barely have accept to try eventually, out of boredom. Or maybe with BioWare, if they are not completely corrupted by the influence of Mass Effect and Jade Empire.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
To the OP, very good post. Feels like you're reading my mind or something.
Vanguard should have been the next big game I think. It had all the ingredients and then failed at execution. Very frustrating.
I think it's very possible that the next big game that is an actual success in terms of gameplay and fun value might just come out of left field. That is to say, a game that hasn't been so agressively hyped and perhaps a bit low on the radar. That's the way of things in life sometimes.
Comments
I was invited to that damn beta more times than I want to remember. I tried it once, realized the combat aspect of it was absolutely ridiculous, uninstalled it and will NEVER look back. If you are enjoying it, great! I hear many people are, but it is not my cup of tea...
actually bioware's mmorpg is slated for 2009, or so i read...so as of right now..AoC i cancelled the preorder....too many things i didnt like about it, WAR is hanging by a thread for me...i am still hoping on the Bioware mmorpg....and anything star warsy
Definitely not a game for everyone. This game is for people who like sailing and strategy games, I think. The combat can be slow and strategic, which won’t be for everyone, but I think some people will dig it very much.
Definitely not a game for everyone. This game is for people who like sailing and strategy games, I think. The combat can be slow and strategic, which won’t be for everyone, but I think some people will dig it very much.
You bring up a valid point. I do not like RTS games because it forces you to have "patience!" I have patience to an extent, but slow combat intertwined with some strategy to me is just boring. I know people in my guild who have played it, most did not like it...but the people who did like it said it was awesome! Best of luck in your sailing adventures!
To the OP, I think you have to understand is that game development is probably just as slow, if not slower, than general software development. It's hard to imagine why, but it's pretty obvious when you consider that computers themselves although being very new have some basic assumptions attached. In this case, MMOs are the most sluggish due to the assumption that each and every MMO must reflect the prevailing 'standard,' in this case, WoW is the prevailing standard.
How do developers break out of that without a significant degree of alienation (because if you've ever played older MMOs and noticed how their mechanics even their UIs are different from so-called modern MMOs, you'll notice they're very different from one and other (DAOC from AC, EQ1 from UO, Entropia Universe from AO, and so on...))? One way is to accept that UI mechanics should stay a certain way, but that under-the-hood changes are needed from the WoW 'standard.' For example, the dps model that WoW uses is an *old* one (I can bet you 50 USD that half the code references THAC and other old die roll mechanics that were ported to MUDs almost three decades ago even in WoW), which needs to be *totally removed* or *redesigned* with *significant* modifications such as real time 'interruption' or aiming (as AoC is doing with their aiming system and hit boxes, and WAR is doing with the translation of morale to their game).
All in all, both AoC and WAR are breaking the under-the-hood mold of WoW (which is the real child of EQ1 with respect to the dps model and PVE focus) in significant ways even beyond their modification of the dps model for combat. In this case, AoC plans to bring player contested territories to make end game not focused on raiding (although there are raid zones from the videos I've seen on GameTrailers), and WAR is making PVP the fulcrum of the PVE experience (raids and all) along with their RVR model for PVP.
If WAR or AoC suck, I'm done with the genre.
Thats the next mmo you should wait for if AoC and WAR dont deliver.
first of all: Funcom is a company that never cared much about mainstream or mainstreaming and that chooses vision over safe bet.
AO was one of the greatest MMORPGs ever made and the direction they go with AoC is all but standard approach.
better merged classes than imbalanced ones. why do you play AoC? because of a certain class? why do you think they have a beta test? maybe they figured out that this might work better. it has nothing to do with broken promises.
and to WAR: yes, I am very disappointed in the graphics, but they really seem to work hard on making the game balanced and especially to merge PvE and PvP in some fashion... I think WAR will be very polished when it comes out.
people always complain about rushed products and then they complain when games are not rushed.
2009/2010 release of Warhammer 40k MMO and we should be seeing some more media releases about it this year
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
My money is on the DC MMO, which I will wager releasee in 2008/2009.
My theory is that SWG tested out a new physics and gameplay style with their NGE. SOE knew the SWG license wasn't going anywhere, so they figured they would use the live SWG as a testing mechanism for how they will pull off their superhero MMO.
Mark my words, this will be probably the best MMO released in a long time because it is getting a lot of resource and attention from SOE, and because SOE is doing things the right way, by not saying squat about it until release.
Thats right, ol' Smed learned himself a lesson. This will give him a great opportunity to test out his 'pay for exclusive content' theory, as the comic book world is ripe for it. I also predict that this will be heads and shoulders above the Marvel MMO, and release way ahead of it too. Marvel Online will be a carbon copy of CoH/CoV with new features while the DC MMO will be designed from the ground up and probably be the first actual "next-gen" MMO.
sounds nice but do you realize how every big out-of-gaming licence based MMORPG ends up in ruins (NGE) or already sarts out as a pure catastrophic failure like DDO, The matrix online, and so on?
the best games are based on, well, games. on gaming world concepts. Ultima -> Ultima online. Everquest -> Everquest 2, Warcraft - WoW, and so on, or are simply newly developed, like Guild Wars or EVE online.
nobody needs licenses. They "guarantee" sales and are therefore prone to poor development and cost cutting. They guarantee instant interest in the product and are therefore prone to poor features or anything that would make people really interested in them. They also stand for total lack of originality because , well, they are ripoffs by definition.
A license distracts from the content and the design.
look at solo games. almost every game based on a movie/comic license sucks.
and another thing: Marvel's world is at least filled with a lot of cartoon caracters (I find the term superheroes just ridiculous). DC has Batman and Superman. big deal. I don't want to talk about quality here. DC is just as bad or good as Marvel. But MMORPG games need diversity. CoV / CoH did a very good job with that. I think the DC universe is probably the worst possible for a game background.
I entirely agree with the OP here.
---
Waiting for: GW2
*thumbs up*: GW, Eve(, WoW)
*thumbs down*: MO, GA, FE
Vanguard never hold any high hopes for me.
I will never stop dreaming and hoping.
For me, the MMOs doesn't have to be that much, I never ask for that much. I only ask for a game which, focus on grouping-PvE...and recently I add which never, never, never nerf me.
See, to have a chance to get your hopes accomplished, you need to have hopes which are realistic.
When I left EQ, the only thing I was asking was EQ-without raiding enforcement. I never ask for more. I got City of Heroes/Villains, which fills in nicely. Now that I left CoV, I don't ask for the moon or something impossible, I just ask for a CoV-without the nerfing. (nerfs are really bad for achievers in the long run, especially if the game..."lack" achievements)
The game could just be an EQ without raiding and without nerfing, I would be just as happy. I am that nice and that simple.
I never really believe in AoC or WAR, so if they are good, well, it would be a pleasant surprised. But AoC is just alien. WAR is like those ex-slaves, they free themselves and now they made slaves of everyone else...I rather be with the original master, he is less cruel. But, I can also just run away until I find a neat little MMO to play.
I will likely falls in love with a MMO I would barely have accept to try eventually, out of boredom. Or maybe with BioWare, if they are not completely corrupted by the influence of Mass Effect and Jade Empire.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
To the OP, very good post. Feels like you're reading my mind or something.
Vanguard should have been the next big game I think. It had all the ingredients and then failed at execution. Very frustrating.
I think it's very possible that the next big game that is an actual success in terms of gameplay and fun value might just come out of left field. That is to say, a game that hasn't been so agressively hyped and perhaps a bit low on the radar. That's the way of things in life sometimes.
Hello Kitty Online Adventures
That's what they originally said, but after the take-over by EA it seems that the Bioware MMORPG is getting delayed.
And by the way, Tabula Rasa is already out, and also a somewhat different game. Not the biggest success maybe, but still doing quite well.