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EVE Online: Review Part Two
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com Community Manager Laura Genender has written a review of CCP's EVE Online that we've split into two parts. Part one looked at some of the background of the game and the different aspects of its gameplay. Today's part two will focus on the traditional review aspects of the game and produce a score.
EconomicsLastly for the gameplay talk we have economy. I haven’t done much in the way of manufacturing, trading, or market jockeying, but I’m fair impressed with what I know of the system. While there isn’t a complicated crafting mini-game like you find in games like Vanguard or A Tale in the Desert, EVE has its own level of complication in a player-generated market in a shardless world – this is to say that there is only one EVE server, where everyone plays and trades together. It’s interesting to watch natural trade-hubs form (Jita, anyone?) and to watch how the market fluctuates when new technology becomes available.
One of my favorite parts of the economy is the contract system, a completely unique trade system. While there’s a normal market system which allows players to buy/sell common items, the contract system allows players to create auctions, sell uncommon items, or sell items in groups. In addition, players can set up courier contracts where player A puts up a collateral and carries player B’s goods from one place to another.
;)
Read it all here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Not a bad review IMO given that its quite a short article for a game which has such complex depth. I think the real special aspect of this game is its ability to be so popular whilst being a distinct genre and where the economy and game is largly player influenced.
I really enjoyed my time with Eve, especially as it forced me to think about how i wanted to play rather than just grind a level after a level. The community are excellent and I made many new friends in this game.
The game will not appeal to huge sections of the MMO community, in its curent guise, due to its over-riding PVP focus and the lack of easy pick up and play charachetristics. I hope that it continues to grow and develop, especially the planet side avatar aspects that are coming soon.
Truly this is a true success story for the genre and the developers.
Well done.
To err is human....to play is divine
Enjoyed reading this review which I though feelt fresh and also did the game justice. Especially part1 which I forwarded to several none-EvE playing MMO-playing friends to try to make them understand what makes EvE such a special experience. It's a year I quit playing, but I'm always tempted to go back.
Playing: Xbox360.
Played: NC, WoW, EvE, WAR, LOTRO.
Waiting: Dust 514, SW:TOR, Infinity:TQFE, et al.
while I agree with what you wrote, I do not agree on your choice of words when talking about "griefing".
because all the things you are describing are part of EVE by design, it is not griefing.
griefing is, at least in other MMORPGs, if you exploit a design flaw or a hole in the system to cause grief to other people, just for the heck of it.
in EVE, as you rightfully state, it is usually to earn money and a conscious part of the game design
As pieces by underqualified reviewers go, very pleasant. If that 8.5 becomes MMORPG.COM's new official rating, it should appear with an asterisk, because it's meaningless.
If you are going to review a five year old game with a slow development path, it's not enough to roll a toon and play for a few months, then cheerily admit "I didn't try" half of the game's mechanisms. You look over the shoulders of one or two veteran players who can demonstrate the advanced features and zones that your noob toon isn't ready for.
While I see your point in what you are trying to say here, your comments are at BEST insulting. Laura Genender is in no way under qualified to write this review. She has been working with this site for over 3 years and serves as MMORPG.com's Community Manager. She has a wide variety of play experience and has a strong understanding of MMORPGs both as games and as a business.
Obviously MMORPG reviews are never going to nclude every possible aspect of the game, every nook and cranny. While I would personally love to be able to give someone an assignment that says: "Play this game for five years, then write a complete review." The logistics of such an endeavor would be insane.
As time goes on, we have our reviews add to their original review through update features.
Again, I see your point, but don't you think perhaps you could have found another way to express it that didn't attempt to belittle someone with a great deal of MMORPG journalism experience?
Hope that clears things up for you.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
No, it doesn't clear up anything at all. Her qualifications to review the game have nothing to do with her term of service here at MMORPG.COM. They have everything to do with whether she has experienced and evaluated the core features of the game. For a serious review, if some features take time to access, it is customary to get help. In this case, to take one example, rarely has a true MMO been as PvP-centric as EVE. So if the reviewer says "I haven't really tried PvP but I hear it's great," that's not really a review. Similarly, the whole world of blueprints and manufacturing is an enormous subgame within EVE. So when she says that EVE doesn't really have a complex crafting minigame - but she hasn't tried manufacturing - it's clearly a partial review. That's why the score is meaningless. Basically I stand by my remarks above, and I think your perception of them as insulting is off base.
On manufacturing - The difference between the ATITD/Vanguard systems (which I cited) and the EVE system is that, in ATITD/VG, you actually have a minigame for each item you craft. You have to cut the gems, you have to smith the items, etc. In EVE, you get a blueprint, have the skills/materials, and start your research/production at a station from what I understand. No, the trade system is not SIMPLE, but there's no minigame of complications or gem and blade angles, etc.
In terms of my experience with the game, there is a big difference between reviewing an MMO and reviewing a single player title. In single player games, I absolutely agree that the reviewer needs to finish the game and have complete knowledge of its functions, however, single player games are also FINITE. MMO worlds have a plethora of experiences; at best it would take years to complete them all, at worst it's actually impossible. I've never seen a review of LOTRO written by someone who has taken every class/race to max level, AND ever PVP race to max skill.
Personally, I'd rather say "I haven'treally tried PvP but I hear it's great" then publish hearsay under my name. I intend to continue playing EVE and will probably move into 0.0 very shortly. In the meantime, if you'd like to do a manufacturing or PVP-centered article, check out our Opportunities page
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
Did you see part 1?!
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
to be in control and not the game to be in control of you, you make your own destiny.
I enjoyed reading the review and agree with what much was said.
I think EVE is the most innovative and interesting MMORPG out there right now, but it does have large glaring flaws. I am waiting the day that a fantasy MMO with similar economics and the territorial warfare systems comes out.
Clattuc,
I think Laura wrote a nice review that overviews the game briefly. It's impossible to write a full scale depth overview of a game in way. Even a game like Unreal Tournament 3 cannot be reviewed by simply playing 1 day. It's simple, you have people that play at a competitive level, while you have the average user and then the modders. Each of these people will have a different view and perspective. The game will take a different shape in the eyes of a user by the day. Her approach was honest and fair and should be good enough for any new players out there.
Take my approach and read the full review again.
I enjoyed the review. I have been playing for 6 or 7 months now, and have experienced just about as much as the author. Yes she has much more of the game to explore to finish the review (as do I), but I never felt like she passed her review off as complete.
About crafting, the complexity of the system in terms of total information required to be effective at it easily trumps any game that I have ever played. The author's statement about the actual crafting process is true, as it is as simple as your typical WoW select number and combine.
In fact, that could be said about many aspects of EVE. The actual moment of glory is simple, a few clicks and you are done. The prep time, information needed before hand, ectra is what really makes the system complex. Just think about how simple blowing up a rat is. You target and hit shoot. But getting to that point takes a lot, and I think that is the part most of us enjoy. The explosion is just justification for the time.
As to the poster who made such negative comments. I look forward to your unbiased review of the game. I hope that you have not forgotten what it feels like to be a 5 month old player, as that is the target audience. I mean, reviews usualy are intended for those not yet playing the game, not the 2 year old vet who knows every aspect of game play.
You may be thinking more along the lines of a guide. Something that lists all sorts of activities you can get involved in and a little snippet about what its about, why it is fun, and how to get started.
Thank you again ?Laura for the review, and I look forward to using you as income. . err, meeting you in game in the near future.
I actually read the whole thing again carefully after Jon erupted earlier. I think her take on the subset of the game she's actually seen is pretty good, which is why I called the review nice. Nor do I begrudge anyone the opportunity to write a careful partial review of a five-year-old game. My only concern is that MMORPG.COM might possibly use her 8.5 as its site-wide rating of the game. At least for established games, the rating should be based on evaluating the full game.
Ok... Now how about writting reviews of, let's say, other games that we care this time around, hmm? You guys already have done a review of this game. TWICE. Where is our review of ArchLord, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Hellgate, Fury, 2Moons, Dungeon Runners, Perfect World and/or Tabula Rasa?
I mean, it must not be THAT difficult / long to write a review of a mmorpg! I seriously hope you guys won't do re-re-review of anything else anymore. I don't want a re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-review of WoW either and strangely, I can see it coming in 2 years. Come on, even the polls are showing that the (second) reason why peoples a going on your website is for the reviews (the forum being reason number one).
I'm not a fan of mmorpg reviews because they always seem to be very biased like giving WOW: TBC graphics a 5/10 and yet Vanguard got a 9/10 or something. I just think the reviewer's there are pretty biased because they clearly don't understand artistic graphics and it's something that makes WOW look 10 times better than most on the market. Yet games like Vangaurd may have a more powerful engine but everything looks very bland and boring and empty.........
However I thought this review was much better and rpetty much on the money to what new players should expect. Sure veterans will moan and say you missed out lots of content but tbh no new player is going to see any of that for a year or two..
Not a bad review at all.
Will you be sticking around in EVE, Taera, or are you pretty much done and moving on to the next game? If you're staying, what are the chances that you'll be getting involved in a little pew-pew in the not-so-distant future (aka when can we pod you/get podded by you?).
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
This!
Also, good review. But i expect the 8.5 to be reduced one you get into fleets. Because they suck.
This!
Also, good review. But i expect the 8.5 to be reduced one you get into fleets. Because they suck.
I really really hope that CCP will get a lot of new customers with the steam launch and will then have enough money to buy even more superior hardware to make big fleet battles, like 400 vs 400 and so on, less laggy...
in the long run, they will have to switch from one-system-one-node to a more flexible version... then Jita or any fleets would cease to be any problem
Being a veteran of the harshest crafting system in any MMO which is FFXI and tried other MMO's crafting systems, I can honestly say this system isn't as easy as the OP makes it sound. You need to research Capital Component manufacturing and Capital Ship manufacturing. Tech II Ship and Complex Compounds are additional examples of items that are more than just click and "poof". The system isn't near as difficult as FFXI but isn't as easy as the OP makes it sound.
I did enjoy the review but......
Making statements based on hearsay is a dangerous thing to do and can be very misleading.
I was wondering if other MMOs had a similar buy/order system. It seems like most MMOs use an auction system which is essentially like the contracts in EVE.
I also like how there are player made escrow systems as well.
I do not read the forums that much also not in eve. And i have played the game for almost five years now.
My highest account has an sp of over 75 mil. And never did any pvp or pve. I do misions with this character and i mine a lot with this character. My second character is over 50 mil sp and is also a miner.
Problem with the big battles from over 100 people that system becomes so laggy that normal play in that system is almost not to do. In pve or pvp you loose a real lot of ships.
I choose this game because you have not be on online too get skilled. You can do your own thing also in a corperation.
And grinding you can do every where also in eve which a whole lot people do but what if have lots of isks and you can fly the ship or use the equipment you want.
Also there are ore thiefs, the cooperation stealers and all sort of spies.
And the best part are jumpclones you do not fly through enemysystems too get where you want to be. Problem you need then 24 hours then you can jump back again.
The tractorbeams to get you cans in a lot easier. The rigs too get your ship more upgradable.
And with every patch or expansion you get more sort of ships.
Eve started with only a frigate, a cruiser, battlecruiser and a hauler all T1 and now 10 times more ships more equipment a better contracting system and better market place.
Jita(caldari) is place where all sales take place but not during the weekend. But also rens(minmater) and oursalat(galente). And in amar space there would such a place.
AK
Your review is WAY off about preformance.
You need to change EVERY other MMO lower then 7 considering eve is able to have EVERYONE on 1 server. EVE outpreforms EVERY other MMO for handeling mass amounts of people clustered.
You also say it is a 7 because 400 vs 400 gives lag? You tell me ANY game that 800 people are all together that would give no lag. You also greatly exadurate the 3 min wait. I doubt you ever were involved in a large fleet to see what your assuming and passing on as fact.
Jita? theres usually 600-1000 (sometimes more) people all clustered and it still don't crash the system.
City of Heros scored higher in preformance and they needed to cap the freedom server because of overload issues on the double exp weekend and they only had like 3000 ON THE WHOLE SERVER. EVE has had this many in ONE AREA before!
EVE has about 40,000 at most times and still runs fine.
Missions do not lag, they are smooth as silk. Gangs also. The only lag I get is those super huge fleets of hundreds all globbed in the same area, and still the lag has improved 10 times over.
EVE is superior to all other current MMO in terms of it's amount of people it can handle and still preform well.
The community is way low too. EVE has the most mature player base I ever delt with on a MMO. Your examples of gankers is true, but when you get into one of the many corps you see different. There is also a player corp dedicated to training new players called EVE University.
Eve has a much better preformance and community then 7.
SHOHADAKU
Your opinion about performance is waaaaaaaaaaaay off, actually the 7 from a 0.0 point of view is waaaay to high, and from an empire perspective a little bit low so the 7 she gave seems to a good middle point allthough too high imho.
30 versus 30 battles allready give 5 minute gridload lag and dysync issues in some parts of 0.0, where as 100 vs. 150 completly crash nodes, ow and all losses related to these experiences are NOT reimbursable. Really great fun when you are putting your caps on the line.... NOT. 10 minute to 1 hour gridloading is factual. Performance is a 3 for these environments at a maximum.
Eve has a mechanic where GM's can reinforce nodes if they expect HUGE fights but then they can still do only as much. It has come to the point that fleet engagements are all about who's FC masters lag best and skill, setups and ships have nothing to do with it at all.
If you claim that EVE doesnot have a lag problem then you are most definetly not taking part in the pvp aspect of Eve.
And your Jita remark is silly, where as Jita can handle around 700 with heavy lag, you'll get stuck for hours if it goes above that and you are trying to dock/undock/jump into Jita. I'd advise you to try entering Jita on sunday around 22:00 gametime and come back here to post about jita performance.
Dark Age of Camelot handles 400 vs 400, be it laggy, it handles it to a decree that is still playable and is caused by client sided gfx lag, whereas when lag hits Eve it most def. is not playable anymore and serversided...
Three minutes waiting is hardly exaggerated. Sunday -monday night, I jumped into 4u9-system in Deklein at 01.11 local time. The system finished loading (for me) at around 02.16 local time, although I was able to warp around before that, that was the time I finally started seeing anything else other then my own ship, and that was because local had dropped and we'd won the fight. And that was with 300 people in-system, something that's standard for Jita.
Jita is a reinforced node, because it has so much people always in it. I bet there are several dozen players who never actually leave Jita, but live their whole lives there, trading, scamming, suicide-hunting and wardeccing.
In the outer reaches of 0.0 space, a single node can handle traffic in dozens of systems, but when there's a fight, the node gets a lot more action then in 'normal' mode, and that's when the hampsters start to die.
I agree that what CCP has managed with EVE is technically a miracle, and a very impressive feat of system engineering, but don't try to say that EVE isn't at the very limits of its system capability. It shows to the players, it shows to reviewers, and thus it lowers the grade for performance.
You should also note that the grades in reviews are not absolute, nor are they mathemathically comparable to each other between different reviewers. A reviewers view is also only of the 'outside', the clientside workability of the design, while a long-term player has an eye 'inside', seeing the very worst of lags (LOTRO, center of Bree in beta, anyone?) and near-crashes of the server. Demanding that every grade on a site be changed because they are not in accordance with your feelings on what game has best performance shows a great deal of hubris.
Mmmm I am a long time EVE player and I do like the game, obviously.... but I am really tired of seeing things like
Cons: Community and performance
And then the score is a 7 (on a 1-10 scale)
I'd rate EVE's performance at a 5 or a 6
I'd rate EVE's community at a 5 as well.
7 is just too high for BOTH of those categories. Rest is spot-on though. Love the game... but really tired of seeing reviewrs list a 'negative' about a game and then turn around and give the same game, no matter what the title is, an "above average" rating in that very category.
Oh and the score of 10 on graphics is a bit over the top. The new graphics are much nicer than the old ones but, frankly, the graphics don't deserve a 10. A solid 8 or 9 though.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell