If jump gate follows its roots pvp wise or follows EVEs example I will probably fall in love with the game, I loved the original but it got old, but if it ends up as a massive carebear fest I will most likely avoid it as I like to play games for the challenge of fighting real intelligent and adaptive opponents, ie other people.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with PVE or carebearism and each to their own but fighting the same pre programmed bots over and over just doesn't interest me and that's why I don't play MMOs in general I only play EVE. If i want to fight blobs of NPCs in space there is always the X series or Darkstar one but they didn't occupy my interest for long and the same will go for jump gate if there is not decent semi FFA pvp.
EVE is the minimum example they should follow imo.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
2nd to the comment EVE is a "epic fail" Are you living in some bazzaro universe or something?......
Fanboy much? I hate to be the wise-guy here, but if you read the post you are trying to flame, Eve was NEVER called an 'epic fail'. In contrary, the 'epic fail' comment was that if a developer is working on a space MMO, without fully understanding the Eve model, then that developer is failing. In easy-to-follow words, that comment was complimenting Eve for being the 'role-model' for any new space-based MMOs.
But, you obviously would rather jump to the defense of Eve rather than understand what was actually said.
And for the record, many people, myself included, have played Eve for a long time, and recognize it as one of the most unbalanced and exploitable games in MMO history. 95% of its PVP is blob or be blobbed. Seriously, it has the worst balance of risk vs reward I've seen in any title.
Perhaps JGE will find something truly unique to balance the PVP/PVE equation. I hope for solid outlets for both. While I trend to favor PVP for, I commonly opt to take the role of Industrialist for the sake of my guild/clan in whatever game we play, so I do enjoy a nice balance that I can do both at some time or another.
Can't use JGC as a useful measuring stick for a good way to do PvP. An all PvE server COULD work in JGE. An all PvP server would be JGC, limiting the game to the tiny community that JGC has. PvE + PvP obviously is the way to go, with *safe* PvE areas. That has the broadest appeal. Humors me to see people say things like "I can't understand why people would want to play a MMO only to PvE?" Talk about a narrow mind. Its easily reversible to: "I can't understand why people would want to play a MMO only to PvP?" After all, any number of games (such as freelancer and JGC!) already fill the space PvP niche quite well, and if all else fails, could always play Eve and live in 0.0 space.
Im not.. Im basing my arguments on the Storyline(atleast what we got so far) of JGE. The 3 nations are designed to compete and fight each other. If they wanted a fully PVE game then they wouldnt need 3 different playable factions that hold grudges to eachother. Netdevil even had a contest on JGE forums, Smack talking other nations. Its just a little hint that they arent designed to hold hands and sing song while fighting against conflux together.. They would need one faction only, and you could fight the conflux. Thats Full PVE game. Also it was stated by the producer, that the player will eventually choose foes and friends to their liking. So you wont have to be enemies of other factions.
I ofcourse only want 1 servertype aswell.. But it will come down to what kind of safezones they implement. Freelancer is not a mmo.. Eve is not twitch based.. JGC is just to old. And we have been waiting for an upgrade for years.
Anyway.. PVP will be the heart of JGE. Theres nothing like competing against a real human being.. No NPC can replace that. Atleast I hope so.
Anyway.. PVP will be the heart of JGE. Theres nothing like competing against a real human being.. No NPC can replace that. Atleast I hope so.
NPC AI could easily be written to wipe the floor with any player in a space game. But their egos aren't bruised when they die, and that takes the "fun" out of killing them for some people. You can never make the AI give up in frustration and cancel its subscription. Where's the fun in killing them then?
...
Because it'd be more of a challenge than kllling any player would. But then, PvP in JGC and the rest of the games isn't about challenge for the most part, its about imposing your will on others. 6 on 1 battles require no effort or skill. Whether the victim is player or NPC, they have little to no chance of winning. So why is it important that the victim be a player?
As far as JGE story line goes, the 3 nations are not at war with each other in JGE. That right there says something to me. Quants won't be automatic victims of sol's, etc. Some players WANT all other players to always be legit targets, but that's not what the devs are going for.
Originally posted by admiralnlson Making a game oriented for PvE players and adding just the minimum to make PvP players play the games is not the suitable solution. OK, PvE players may play the game if it's good enough. But PvP players are just too picky ^^ and will get sick of the lack of liberty rather quickly.
Adding the minimum so that PvE players can play the game is also not good enough. As a PvE player, I bypassed the new games in the last 2 years because the PvE content appeared to be limited. In some worlds PvE players had no access to the higher level content, equipment or resources.
Games really need to cater for both PvP and PvE if you do not want to limit your customer base. The challenge for developers is to do this in a way that does not handicap one style of play at the expense of the other.
I havent played JG in 6 years but didnt the server assign a bounty for players that killed non PvP flagged ships? I really like that system I would like to think that anything can happend in the MMO world. Granted I would think newb zones should have more protection from grievers like more security forces around hometown stations. Either way I think having a tough Bounty system in place would make griever think twice and give the good players a incintive to track down and destroy the bad guys and get a nice reward in the end. Griever should hurt financially and perhaps be put in some kind of timeout if they kill a non pvp ship and someone collects their bounty.
But of course a bounty system is highly exploitable and very easy to abuse. The moment a player has a bounty worth the trouble on his/her head, just switch to an expendable ship, get a buddy to blow you up, collect bounty, divide credits. Voilá, instant cash.
If anything, I see this as further encouragement for the gank squad.
I agree, the article holds very little hard facts on what JGE will be like, it remains very vague. It is very nice to read that they plan to accommodate both PvE and PvP players in an environment both will be in favor of. But I would require some more hard facts on how exactly they plan to pull that miracle off, before I can work up some enthusiasm.
If game designers decision are based in community thoughts, finally you will gave another EvE with small improvements. The problem is that you can't be better than EvE if you don't invest more money than them. There are so many faulty WoW like games that I'm a little upset with that filosofy "I copy and improve a successful idea".
What would be the best option to obtain a success game? Please, forget previous games and do a funny game, dont try to build a world similar to.... Just create a game where hardcore and casuals users enjoy the daily 30 minutes or three hours dedicated to the game. One example of this is CoD4 I only play two or three times per week during one hour or two and I can be the first of my round, it's funny for everyone. Ok it's not realistic everybody respawn inmediatly but... is funny.
I dont want a real game, I have the real world for that, I want a imaginarium place to enjoy playing alone at times or against others humans players others times.
My ideal game could be for PvE fulfil my childhood fantasies xDDD, be alone in the space with my personal ship and my IA NPCs and do incredible and beautiful missions, I prefer short but fantastic pve game (please dont send me to the next galaxy just to take a piece of engine and come back). And for the PvP stances where I can demonstrate that I'm the best pilot of the space and kill that stupid boy that is telling me in the voice channel that girls aren't good pilot
Please designers surprise me with this game, do a funny game.
Anyway.. PVP will be the heart of JGE. Theres nothing like competing against a real human being.. No NPC can replace that. Atleast I hope so.
NPC AI could easily be written to wipe the floor with any player in a space game. But their egos aren't bruised when they die, and that takes the "fun" out of killing them for some people. You can never make the AI give up in frustration and cancel its subscription. Where's the fun in killing them then?
...
Because it'd be more of a challenge than kllling any player would. But then, PvP in JGC and the rest of the games isn't about challenge for the most part, its about imposing your will on others. 6 on 1 battles require no effort or skill. Whether the victim is player or NPC, they have little to no chance of winning. So why is it important that the victim be a player?
As far as JGE story line goes, the 3 nations are not at war with each other in JGE. That right there says something to me. Quants won't be automatic victims of sol's, etc. Some players WANT all other players to always be legit targets, but that's not what the devs are going for.
"Hard" AI usually cheats and uses abilities a player cannot use, in most cases you can learn how to beat them or find a game mechanic that allows you to defeat them or if the AI is truly bonkers you cannot do anything and then its not a case of player skill its just impossibly scripted AI.
Some people probably do like pvp to make people miserable but the truth is why do people play games with pvp and then bawl their eyes out when they get killed? it just doesn't make sense.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Originally posted by Maurauder I am interested in the PvE and not the PvP.
PvP is one of the reasons that Eve Online is not as large as it could be.
PvE is one of the reasons why WoW is as successful as it is.
Earth and Beyond was very successful because it was PvE and if EA had not bought Westwood I am willing to bet that it would still be around today.
If you want to have PvP in the game make it optional. That is the best way. The next choice is to have certain high reward areas that would draw people to them as PvP only areas. Not as effective but at least middle ground. If this game is going to be major PvP then I am not interested in it anymore.
Still more then 50% of the WoW players play on PvP servers. This means at least something.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Originally posted by afroburzing Originally posted by eric_w66 Originally posted by Viramor As a long time EVE player I'm eagerly following Jumpgate's development.
Eve Online (CCP), presently the most successful online space-genre game, possesses wholly safe zones, where the mere beginnings of a PvP attack result in artificially effective obliteration for the attacker.
EVE does not possess 'wholly safe' zones. While pvp'ers in those zones sacrifice their ships if they attack anyone, it's much more common than one would believe. Suicide ganking in high security space is a very profitable profession in eve; by catching lazy empire haulers laden with high end minerals, loot, manufacturing materials its possible to make billions off a single kill, which is certainly worth suiciding a ship for.
I suspect that type of "gaming the game" will be squashed in Eve, much like all the other high sec exploits of the past were. Hardly.. And yeah.. the developers of a space MMO not 100% understanding eve is pretty epic fail in my books
To me, empire space is pretty safe. Unless you are already a semi verteran player and fly in very very expensive ships with very very expensive fittings, or hauling loads of stuff in a T1 transport, you wont be targetted. Besides that, I have not yet heard of player suiciding in 0.7 0.8 0.9 or 1.0 ( well it can happen, but they dont actually gain anything cause they need a very strong ship, cause concord is alot stronger in here then in 0.5 ) I hear about 0.5 suicide ganks, maybe even 0.6 So yah, normally empire space is pretty safe, especially for newbie players.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Just want to add that there are enough PvE games, the need for a good polished twitch based PvP sandbox is there.
One of the main reasons why EVE does not get THAT much players is because of the boring combat mechanics, not the PvP system.
That does not mean that there should be total unrestricted PvP, there should be safe zones, and layered security, with factional reprecussions, etc.
I also want 1 server for all, like EVE, it is the most interesting solution.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Well I'm one of those polarised types that has a strong view toward one camp that being PvE. I'm a PvE player and have played EnB and loved it, I have also played Eve and thats a love hate relationship for me. I love the game but hate the PvP and what its done to the game. The one server for all idea is a pipe dream, Eve can't even get it to work. Tried a Fleet Battle lately, it doesn't work and in a game where ship inputs are coming from a joystick it won't work at all. You'll need multiple separate servers, which means limiting numbers per server.
If you want to draw me to JGE then you have to provide me a PvE varient, consensual PvP only regardless of the zone I'm in. I don't want to be restricted to "Safe" zones because obviously the good stuff will be out where I would have to subject myself to PvP players. Use this method and PvE players are relegated to being second class inhabitants of the game, I'll be paying to play the game like any other subscriber so I should be able to enjoy the entire map area to play in. That doesn't mean making myself the entertainment for the PvP player base, if they want to get their jollies ganking players then they can do so with each other and I'll be more than happy to sell them the ammo to do so, just don't expect me to participate in it.
I have an account on JGC and am a member of a PvE Squad, I haven't built up the funds to build my own station yet but I'm getting there, I hope this aspect of the game carries over. I would also like to see mobile avatars since it would add an element that is currently lacking in other space sims. JGC has some of the classiest subscribers in the gaming Verse. I'm certain with JGE that won't be the case since the object is to draw in new players so a PvE server or consensual only PvP is going to be an absolute must to get me and those like me to be long term residents.
Perhaps try to make the 50% PvP-Players happy or the 50% PVE-Players.So dont try to make all of us happy cause this is not possible.
As a PvP-Player i want meaningful PvP... fights over resources stations etc. PvE Players dont want this. Decide but please dont make some mixed crap. The reason i dont play wow anymore is cause they fucked it up that way. PvP-Server with Arena PvP sucks. I started WoW hoping being able to fight against the undeads in their capital.
I loved Shadowbane... and this game wouldnt even be worth a look if you would take the pvp away. Why cant there be an developer studio having the balls to make a real PvP game without having bad graphics or nothing beyond this?
I played JGC in beta and after it went gold for a while...
In beta for example, I remember the epic battles between Solrain Guard and friends -vs - Cruentious Legio.. Amazingly fun PvP with the RP to back it up.. Territory claimed and incredible battles to reclaim that space.... Pirates with PoD (Pay or Die).. demanding credits to allow you to pass. They gave you a chance and maybe you would get lucky and a patrol of "good guys" would jump into sector.. chasing off the Pirate.
Win or lose it was pure fun.. and for those who have never played JGC... a loss can be an extreme set back in finances, time and capability it was still great fun and no one blinked or whined for the most part as it was RP, Mostly consensual PvP vs warring squads or combatants and in a way honorable combat.
That was beta and early Gold..
Once the game went gold and the little Johnnies of the world joined the game and leveled a bit.. the tempo, the flavor of the game changed.. PvP became tube camping and gate camping.. Newb bashing and taunting.. people left in droves
I too was disappointed and chose to leave JGC.. PvP is fine.. but like many if not most games with open PvP, it became for the most part griefing.
I make no statements or judgements about the current JGC PvP community as I havent played in a long while but for JGE to become a commercial success and for those servers to become and stay populated something has to change.
I dont think strict PVE will work, the element of danger is important.. its NOT PVP that people dislike, it's ganking and griefing.. it's indiscriminate PK ..
I would suggest limited safe areas.. with a true.. and effective deterent to senseless killing.. many have been suggested.. just hope the version that eventually finds it's way into JGE... Works cause face it folks.. without a diverse player base.. JGE.. will look like JGC does empty, with deserted stations and the same reletively few players active most of the time.
Here is to the Dev's best efforts.. looking forward to hearing more.
Something that seems to have been swept under the rug is the penalty for PvP death.
PvP in WoW is widely successful because the only penalty is the 3 minutes it takes to run back to your corpse. You either win honor or lose 3 minutes. It's a more than reasonable gamble to take.
PvP in games like EVE and JGC had a harsher death penalty; namely, the loss of all of your equipment. Now, both games have monetary insurance, and it functions similarly in both, but as one who had a pair of S3 artifact engines back in the day, the cost of death (pvp or otherwise), was incredibly high. Whenever I used them, I had this nagging feeling that if I crashed or got killed, I'd never have another pair again; I wasn't willing to hunt artifacts for weeks on end again, and I couldn't afford to buy them from someone else. Because of this, there was always far more PvP going on in the simulator than out in space.
Just as important as how to design your PvP system is what you decide will be the death penalty.
Perhaps try to make the 50% PvP-Players happy or the 50% PVE-Players.So dont try to make all of us happy cause this is not possible. As a PvP-Player i want meaningful PvP... fights over resources stations etc. PvE Players dont want this. Decide but please dont make some mixed crap. The reason i dont play wow anymore is cause they fucked it up that way. PvP-Server with Arena PvP sucks. I started WoW hoping being able to fight against the undeads in their capital. I loved Shadowbane... and this game wouldnt even be worth a look if you would take the pvp away. Why cant there be an developer studio having the balls to make a real PvP game without having bad graphics or nothing beyond this?
This,
Thats what makes EVE so awesome, the actual pvp gameplay isn't that great and neither is the pvp anything remotely fair or contest like and that's why some "PvPers" don't like EVE pvp. EVE pvp matters because your fighting for something, sometimes its as visceral as fighting to deprive someone of their stuff or your the one protecting your stuff and then you come to the space holding alliances who battle for resources and territory.
If you want to play a team contest try TF2 or COD4 if you want real pvp that matters you want something like EVE and I hope the reborn jumpgate keeps to its roots.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Comments
If jump gate follows its roots pvp wise or follows EVEs example I will probably fall in love with the game, I loved the original but it got old, but if it ends up as a massive carebear fest I will most likely avoid it as I like to play games for the challenge of fighting real intelligent and adaptive opponents, ie other people.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with PVE or carebearism and each to their own but fighting the same pre programmed bots over and over just doesn't interest me and that's why I don't play MMOs in general I only play EVE. If i want to fight blobs of NPCs in space there is always the X series or Darkstar one but they didn't occupy my interest for long and the same will go for jump gate if there is not decent semi FFA pvp.
EVE is the minimum example they should follow imo.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Fanboy much? I hate to be the wise-guy here, but if you read the post you are trying to flame, Eve was NEVER called an 'epic fail'. In contrary, the 'epic fail' comment was that if a developer is working on a space MMO, without fully understanding the Eve model, then that developer is failing. In easy-to-follow words, that comment was complimenting Eve for being the 'role-model' for any new space-based MMOs.
But, you obviously would rather jump to the defense of Eve rather than understand what was actually said.
And for the record, many people, myself included, have played Eve for a long time, and recognize it as one of the most unbalanced and exploitable games in MMO history. 95% of its PVP is blob or be blobbed. Seriously, it has the worst balance of risk vs reward I've seen in any title.
Perhaps JGE will find something truly unique to balance the PVP/PVE equation. I hope for solid outlets for both. While I trend to favor PVP for, I commonly opt to take the role of Industrialist for the sake of my guild/clan in whatever game we play, so I do enjoy a nice balance that I can do both at some time or another.
____________________________
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Played/Tried/Beta'd:
SWG, WoW, Eve, CoV, Planetside, DAoC, AO, PotBS, RFO, Neocron, Ryzom, TR, Hellgate, FoM, MxO, Vendetta, VG:SoH, AutoAssault, DDO, LotRO, AoC, Jumpgate, WAR, Black Prophecy, Mortal, Darkfall, Dawntide, AoT, G&H, AoEO, Aion, the list goes on...
Im not.. Im basing my arguments on the Storyline(atleast what we got so far) of JGE. The 3 nations are designed to compete and fight each other. If they wanted a fully PVE game then they wouldnt need 3 different playable factions that hold grudges to eachother. Netdevil even had a contest on JGE forums, Smack talking other nations. Its just a little hint that they arent designed to hold hands and sing song while fighting against conflux together.. They would need one faction only, and you could fight the conflux. Thats Full PVE game. Also it was stated by the producer, that the player will eventually choose foes and friends to their liking. So you wont have to be enemies of other factions.
I ofcourse only want 1 servertype aswell.. But it will come down to what kind of safezones they implement. Freelancer is not a mmo.. Eve is not twitch based.. JGC is just to old. And we have been waiting for an upgrade for years.
Anyway.. PVP will be the heart of JGE. Theres nothing like competing against a real human being.. No NPC can replace that. Atleast I hope so.
My cool sig: Turrets suck.
I was disapointed with the article. It just kinda stated the obvious and discussed what other games have.
I know what other games have. Where's the info on Jumpgate?
NPC AI could easily be written to wipe the floor with any player in a space game. But their egos aren't bruised when they die, and that takes the "fun" out of killing them for some people. You can never make the AI give up in frustration and cancel its subscription. Where's the fun in killing them then?
...
Because it'd be more of a challenge than kllling any player would. But then, PvP in JGC and the rest of the games isn't about challenge for the most part, its about imposing your will on others. 6 on 1 battles require no effort or skill. Whether the victim is player or NPC, they have little to no chance of winning. So why is it important that the victim be a player?
As far as JGE story line goes, the 3 nations are not at war with each other in JGE. That right there says something to me. Quants won't be automatic victims of sol's, etc. Some players WANT all other players to always be legit targets, but that's not what the devs are going for.
Adding the minimum so that PvE players can play the game is also not good enough. As a PvE player, I bypassed the new games in the last 2 years because the PvE content appeared to be limited. In some worlds PvE players had no access to the higher level content, equipment or resources.
Games really need to cater for both PvP and PvE if you do not want to limit your customer base. The challenge for developers is to do this in a way that does not handicap one style of play at the expense of the other.
I havent played JG in 6 years but didnt the server assign a bounty for players that killed non PvP flagged ships? I really like that system I would like to think that anything can happend in the MMO world. Granted I would think newb zones should have more protection from grievers like more security forces around hometown stations. Either way I think having a tough Bounty system in place would make griever think twice and give the good players a incintive to track down and destroy the bad guys and get a nice reward in the end. Griever should hurt financially and perhaps be put in some kind of timeout if they kill a non pvp ship and someone collects their bounty.
But of course a bounty system is highly exploitable and very easy to abuse. The moment a player has a bounty worth the trouble on his/her head, just switch to an expendable ship, get a buddy to blow you up, collect bounty, divide credits. Voilá, instant cash.
If anything, I see this as further encouragement for the gank squad.
I agree, the article holds very little hard facts on what JGE will be like, it remains very vague. It is very nice to read that they plan to accommodate both PvE and PvP players in an environment both will be in favor of. But I would require some more hard facts on how exactly they plan to pull that miracle off, before I can work up some enthusiasm.
My 2 cents:
If game designers decision are based in community thoughts, finally you will gave another EvE with small improvements. The problem is that you can't be better than EvE if you don't invest more money than them. There are so many faulty WoW like games that I'm a little upset with that filosofy "I copy and improve a successful idea".
What would be the best option to obtain a success game? Please, forget previous games and do a funny game, dont try to build a world similar to.... Just create a game where hardcore and casuals users enjoy the daily 30 minutes or three hours dedicated to the game. One example of this is CoD4 I only play two or three times per week during one hour or two and I can be the first of my round, it's funny for everyone. Ok it's not realistic everybody respawn inmediatly but... is funny.
I dont want a real game, I have the real world for that, I want a imaginarium place to enjoy playing alone at times or against others humans players others times.
My ideal game could be for PvE fulfil my childhood fantasies xDDD, be alone in the space with my personal ship and my IA NPCs and do incredible and beautiful missions, I prefer short but fantastic pve game (please dont send me to the next galaxy just to take a piece of engine and come back). And for the PvP stances where I can demonstrate that I'm the best pilot of the space and kill that stupid boy that is telling me in the voice channel that girls aren't good pilot
Please designers surprise me with this game, do a funny game.
NPC AI could easily be written to wipe the floor with any player in a space game. But their egos aren't bruised when they die, and that takes the "fun" out of killing them for some people. You can never make the AI give up in frustration and cancel its subscription. Where's the fun in killing them then?
...
Because it'd be more of a challenge than kllling any player would. But then, PvP in JGC and the rest of the games isn't about challenge for the most part, its about imposing your will on others. 6 on 1 battles require no effort or skill. Whether the victim is player or NPC, they have little to no chance of winning. So why is it important that the victim be a player?
As far as JGE story line goes, the 3 nations are not at war with each other in JGE. That right there says something to me. Quants won't be automatic victims of sol's, etc. Some players WANT all other players to always be legit targets, but that's not what the devs are going for.
"Hard" AI usually cheats and uses abilities a player cannot use, in most cases you can learn how to beat them or find a game mechanic that allows you to defeat them or if the AI is truly bonkers you cannot do anything and then its not a case of player skill its just impossibly scripted AI.
Some people probably do like pvp to make people miserable but the truth is why do people play games with pvp and then bawl their eyes out when they get killed? it just doesn't make sense.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Still more then 50% of the WoW players play on PvP servers. This means at least something.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
EVE does not possess 'wholly safe' zones. While pvp'ers in those zones sacrifice their ships if they attack anyone, it's much more common than one would believe. Suicide ganking in high security space is a very profitable profession in eve; by catching lazy empire haulers laden with high end minerals, loot, manufacturing materials its possible to make billions off a single kill, which is certainly worth suiciding a ship for.
I suspect that type of "gaming the game" will be squashed in Eve, much like all the other high sec exploits of the past were.
Hardly..
And yeah.. the developers of a space MMO not 100% understanding eve is pretty epic fail in my books
To me, empire space is pretty safe.
Unless you are already a semi verteran player and fly in very very expensive ships with very very expensive fittings, or hauling loads of stuff in a T1 transport, you wont be targetted.
Besides that, I have not yet heard of player suiciding in 0.7 0.8 0.9 or 1.0 ( well it can happen, but they dont actually gain anything cause they need a very strong ship, cause concord is alot stronger in here then in 0.5 )
I hear about 0.5 suicide ganks, maybe even 0.6
So yah, normally empire space is pretty safe, especially for newbie players.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Just want to add that there are enough PvE games, the need for a good polished twitch based PvP sandbox is there.
One of the main reasons why EVE does not get THAT much players is because of the boring combat mechanics, not the PvP system.
That does not mean that there should be total unrestricted PvP, there should be safe zones, and layered security, with factional reprecussions, etc.
I also want 1 server for all, like EVE, it is the most interesting solution.
Greetz
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Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Well I'm one of those polarised types that has a strong view toward one camp that being PvE. I'm a PvE player and have played EnB and loved it, I have also played Eve and thats a love hate relationship for me. I love the game but hate the PvP and what its done to the game. The one server for all idea is a pipe dream, Eve can't even get it to work. Tried a Fleet Battle lately, it doesn't work and in a game where ship inputs are coming from a joystick it won't work at all. You'll need multiple separate servers, which means limiting numbers per server.
If you want to draw me to JGE then you have to provide me a PvE varient, consensual PvP only regardless of the zone I'm in. I don't want to be restricted to "Safe" zones because obviously the good stuff will be out where I would have to subject myself to PvP players. Use this method and PvE players are relegated to being second class inhabitants of the game, I'll be paying to play the game like any other subscriber so I should be able to enjoy the entire map area to play in. That doesn't mean making myself the entertainment for the PvP player base, if they want to get their jollies ganking players then they can do so with each other and I'll be more than happy to sell them the ammo to do so, just don't expect me to participate in it.
I have an account on JGC and am a member of a PvE Squad, I haven't built up the funds to build my own station yet but I'm getting there, I hope this aspect of the game carries over. I would also like to see mobile avatars since it would add an element that is currently lacking in other space sims. JGC has some of the classiest subscribers in the gaming Verse. I'm certain with JGE that won't be the case since the object is to draw in new players so a PvE server or consensual only PvP is going to be an absolute must to get me and those like me to be long term residents.
Perhaps try to make the 50% PvP-Players happy or the 50% PVE-Players.So dont try to make all of us happy cause this is not possible.
As a PvP-Player i want meaningful PvP... fights over resources stations etc. PvE Players dont want this. Decide but please dont make some mixed crap. The reason i dont play wow anymore is cause they fucked it up that way. PvP-Server with Arena PvP sucks. I started WoW hoping being able to fight against the undeads in their capital.
I loved Shadowbane... and this game wouldnt even be worth a look if you would take the pvp away. Why cant there be an developer studio having the balls to make a real PvP game without having bad graphics or nothing beyond this?
I played JGC in beta and after it went gold for a while...
In beta for example, I remember the epic battles between Solrain Guard and friends -vs - Cruentious Legio.. Amazingly fun PvP with the RP to back it up.. Territory claimed and incredible battles to reclaim that space.... Pirates with PoD (Pay or Die).. demanding credits to allow you to pass. They gave you a chance and maybe you would get lucky and a patrol of "good guys" would jump into sector.. chasing off the Pirate.
Win or lose it was pure fun.. and for those who have never played JGC... a loss can be an extreme set back in finances, time and capability it was still great fun and no one blinked or whined for the most part as it was RP, Mostly consensual PvP vs warring squads or combatants and in a way honorable combat.
That was beta and early Gold..
Once the game went gold and the little Johnnies of the world joined the game and leveled a bit.. the tempo, the flavor of the game changed.. PvP became tube camping and gate camping.. Newb bashing and taunting.. people left in droves
I too was disappointed and chose to leave JGC.. PvP is fine.. but like many if not most games with open PvP, it became for the most part griefing.
I make no statements or judgements about the current JGC PvP community as I havent played in a long while but for JGE to become a commercial success and for those servers to become and stay populated something has to change.
I dont think strict PVE will work, the element of danger is important.. its NOT PVP that people dislike, it's ganking and griefing.. it's indiscriminate PK ..
I would suggest limited safe areas.. with a true.. and effective deterent to senseless killing.. many have been suggested.. just hope the version that eventually finds it's way into JGE... Works cause face it folks.. without a diverse player base.. JGE.. will look like JGC does empty, with deserted stations and the same reletively few players active most of the time.
Here is to the Dev's best efforts.. looking forward to hearing more.
Something that seems to have been swept under the rug is the penalty for PvP death.
PvP in WoW is widely successful because the only penalty is the 3 minutes it takes to run back to your corpse. You either win honor or lose 3 minutes. It's a more than reasonable gamble to take.
PvP in games like EVE and JGC had a harsher death penalty; namely, the loss of all of your equipment. Now, both games have monetary insurance, and it functions similarly in both, but as one who had a pair of S3 artifact engines back in the day, the cost of death (pvp or otherwise), was incredibly high. Whenever I used them, I had this nagging feeling that if I crashed or got killed, I'd never have another pair again; I wasn't willing to hunt artifacts for weeks on end again, and I couldn't afford to buy them from someone else. Because of this, there was always far more PvP going on in the simulator than out in space.
Just as important as how to design your PvP system is what you decide will be the death penalty.
Thats what makes EVE so awesome, the actual pvp gameplay isn't that great and neither is the pvp anything remotely fair or contest like and that's why some "PvPers" don't like EVE pvp. EVE pvp matters because your fighting for something, sometimes its as visceral as fighting to deprive someone of their stuff or your the one protecting your stuff and then you come to the space holding alliances who battle for resources and territory.
If you want to play a team contest try TF2 or COD4 if you want real pvp that matters you want something like EVE and I hope the reborn jumpgate keeps to its roots.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.