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So what kind of game would appeal to us vets?
Dracis
Member Posts: 434
While we all know the old SW:G is never coming back, I was wondering if there was ever a new MMO to come out that had the similar feeling of pre-CU SW:G ( Skill based, sandbox, large number of professions, complex crafting, etc.) what other features would you like to see?
You may want to call this a bit of market research for my small development company. While we are no where near ready to make a game on the scope of an MMO yet, it is something we are looking forward to do some time in the future. Please be as specific as you can about what features you'd like to see.
Thanks in advance for any help you folks would be willing to provide.
Edit* Obviously, once again, I'm up way to late to be typing.
Comments
first off i would have to say an immersive storyline
then player controlled citys
and a fair amount of mini games on the side ie resourse gathering and surveying in swg
I really liked the open, mix and match profession style. I liked that if you wanted to grind up your crafting, you could buy a survey/harvesting tool, plop down somewhere (even in town), harvest all your materials, and do it. At the same time, it took a lot of running around and research to find the really excellent crafting materials, but it did not require loot. It was difficult at times, but you could be a pure crafting character if you wanted. Also, there were enough skill points to master both a crafting and combat profession. (or two of either).
I liked that you had to buy your vehicles and buildings from crafters. I liked the HAM concept, and the idea that certain combat professions, while providing different skills for different weapons, provided buffs for common stats so that mastering a second combat profession makes the first a bit better too. I liked how the different ranged professions had different tactical implications (though they were unbalanced towards the rifle).
I liked how the game wasn't quest-focused, and how questing for items didn't exist at all (except as home decor). I liked how much thought went into the loot tables-- humanoid NPCs rarely dropped something that they wouldn't have been carrying.
I liked the vending machines; I was never a big enough name to get attention from the top crafters, but if I went by their shop now and then I could pick up a nice item if I had the dough.
I really liked traveling all over and between planets to visit the vendors of the top crafters. It really felt like shopping (as opposed to picking things from a list like in WoW). You had to interact with your community to find out who made the best items, where their shop was, and which of them had quality items in stock, because resources would shift and sometimes a big crafter just wouldn't be able to find the top-notch material for x weapon.
I could go on, but I'd probably just end up rehashing half of the game
One of the really cool aspects of pre-CU swg was that non-combat characters like crafters and entertainers were equally vital to the game world as the people with guns and swords. I would absolutely love to see a developer figure out how to do that again. Throw in player housing/cities and open ended gameplay and I'd be the biggest fanboi ever.
Well there are two games on the horizon that may have what it takes, Earthrise and WELL. Anything else is just wishfull thinking at this time.
Subscribtions: EVE, SWTOR WOW, WAR, DDO, VG, AOC, COV, FFXI, GW, RFO, Aion
+plenty of F2P, betas, trials
Female Dwarf player: WOW, VG, WAR, DDO
.
Due to the recent economic crisis and spending cuts the light at the end of the tunnel was turned off. Sincerely, God.
Stuff I'd like to see in an MMO.
* "Sandbox" style of gameplay. Let the player come up with a template to suit their style. Eschew the Lemming method right now: Single Classes with little differentiation, even taking things like "Expertise" into account. A large number of professions, each bringing something to the table, is a must for this. Allow "specialists" or "generalists," with either style of play having its own pro / con.
* Non-Combat Players playing just as much a pivotal role. I was very surprised when I joined SWG in Jan-Feb 2004 that there were players totally dedicated to Crafting, Business, Resource Gathering (Harvesting and the rest), and even Entertainment. Lots of people didn't care much for fighting, and yet they meant alot to the game just as Combat players were. In relation to the first point, do not make crafting and other non-combat gameplay as mere secondary skillset for every character. A player needs to devote the Skillpoints / Skillboxes into it to be any good, just like combat.
* Decay in items. When I first joined in the Pre-CU days, at first I was against it. But after playing all the way from Pre-CU, CU, and leaving during the NGE, I can say now that Decay was positive for the game. The Crafters could provide goods that you can always return for. There can be the rare loot drop that had amazing stats, but it will decay. You're more likely to save that item for big situations. But you can always have reliable crafted gear. There can be Uber Gear in the game, decay will keep them in check.
* An "open world" to explore. What I mean is let us fully travel the game world like SWG used to do. If there was steep terrain, you needed good Terrain Negotiation to travel through at a decent speed. More TN, faster travel in rough terrain. Do NOT funnel my travel all the time just like Rage of the Wookies' stupid depiction of Kashyyyk with all the stupid invisible walls. Same thing but slightly lesser degree with Mustafar.
* Vehicles, Mounts for travel and possible combat. If something in a fantasy / medieval type of setting, with proper skills, allow mounted combat. If Star Wars, with proper skills, allow combat on a Speederbike, AT-ST, etc.
* Allow soloing to a degree, but make no mistake that Grouping is an emphasis. And do NOT penalize players for grouping. One thing that I abhorred that SWG eventually went towards as well as other MMOs is penalizing players their XPs because they had help from another, usually more experienced player... umm... WTF? I thought helping players, socializing, GROUP PLAY should be emphasized in an MMO? So what if the less experienced player gets a big boost? Half the reason people grouped in the Pre-CU days was to help newbies / new characters out in gaining XPs and fighting with the benefit and direct protection of a group. It really benefited new players since veterans were far more willing to help out a new player and more quickly bring them into the community before he even thinks of joining a guild.
* Do not oversimplify the game. I did like the deep gameplay of the Pre-NGE systems. I did NOT like the simple gameplay of the NGE.
* Regarding vehicles... they need to be more durable to allow combat. Armor values, resistances, whatever. How rugged they are should also depend on the type. Star Wars example: Speederbikes aren't durable, you rely on speed. Lots of weapons can effectively damage them, provided you can hit them. Something like an AT-ST needs heavier weapons to bring down, not a baton, pistol, or rifle. Vehicles should be destroyable, but still be repairable (bigger, tougher vehicles cost more to repair). Let them have "condition" so that after being destroyed so many times, they're destroyed for good. Gotta go buy a new one from a crafter.
* This is a bit vague... I'm not sure how to go around this, but there should be good reasons to have and not to have armor on. You also shouldn't be able to swim with armor on, especially metallic ones. The benefits and penalties of armor usage I have always felt shouldn't merely rest on "Class Certifications." No, your Archer can't wear Chainmail.
* While allowing player housing out in the wild, by all means, allow players to purchase a house, apartment, living space in a city. Imagine this with SWG... your well to do Merchant has a luxurious, expensive apartment at the top of one of the multistory towers in Coronet, Corellia. That whole floor is YOURS. But, go into the lower floors and you'll see smaller occupied apartments, each available for players to rent. Heck, SWG already has you pay maintenance for your own buildings, why not rent to live in a hub like Coronet? I believe this would've brought alot more life to SWG's cities. Some of those cities are simply spectacular. Guilds could've called a certain city "home" by renting out one of the larger buildings for their guild to use.
* If you're going to have opposing player factions, the factions need to feel different. The Empire in SWG shouldn't play the same as the Rebellion. It should not be a game of Red vs Blue.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Add Fallen Earth to that list, it is along the same lines as Earthrise, only much further along in development.
Add Fallen Earth to that list, it is along the same lines as Earthrise, only much further along in development.
We are currently trying to get the video game rights for a very popular scifi IP. Unfortunately it is very slow going and there is alot of legal red tape to get through. Not to mention there were already legal wranglings around the IP to begin with, but in our opinion it's well worth it.
Thanks to everyone who has responded positively so far
Oh, and no I can not talk about the IP we are trying to aquire due to the legal issues.
Edit* I forgot to mention, don't worry, if I ever get to make an MMO, there would never, ever be a revamp of CU/NGE scale.
Stuff I'd like to see in an MMO.
* "Sandbox" style of gameplay. Let the player come up with a template to suit their style. Eschew the Lemming method right now: Single Classes with little differentiation, even taking things like "Expertise" into account. A large number of professions, each bringing something to the table, is a must for this. Allow "specialists" or "generalists," with either style of play having its own pro / con.
AGREE
* Non-Combat Players playing just as much a pivotal role. I was very surprised when I joined SWG in Jan-Feb 2004 that there were players totally dedicated to Crafting, Business, Resource Gathering (Harvesting and the rest), and even Entertainment. Lots of people didn't care much for fighting, and yet they meant alot to the game just as Combat players were. In relation to the first point, do not make crafting and other non-combat gameplay as mere secondary skillset for every character. A player needs to devote the Skillpoints / Skillboxes into it to be any good, just like combat.
AGREE
* Decay in items. When I first joined in the Pre-CU days, at first I was against it. But after playing all the way from Pre-CU, CU, and leaving during the NGE, I can say now that Decay was positive for the game. The Crafters could provide goods that you can always return for. There can be the rare loot drop that had amazing stats, but it will decay. You're more likely to save that item for big situations. But you can always have reliable crafted gear. There can be Uber Gear in the game, decay will keep them in check.
AGREE
* An "open world" to explore. What I mean is let us fully travel the game world like SWG used to do. If there was steep terrain, you needed good Terrain Negotiation to travel through at a decent speed. More TN, faster travel in rough terrain. Do NOT funnel my travel all the time just like Rage of the Wookies' stupid depiction of Kashyyyk with all the stupid invisible walls. Same thing but slightly lesser degree with Mustafar.
AGREE
* Vehicles, Mounts for travel and possible combat. If something in a fantasy / medieval type of setting, with proper skills, allow mounted combat. If Star Wars, with proper skills, allow combat on a Speederbike, AT-ST, etc.
AGREE
* Allow soloing to a degree, but make no mistake that Grouping is an emphasis. And do NOT penalize players for grouping. One thing that I abhorred that SWG eventually went towards as well as other MMOs is penalizing players their XPs because they had help from another, usually more experienced player... umm... WTF? I thought helping players, socializing, GROUP PLAY should be emphasized in an MMO? So what if the less experienced player gets a big boost? Half the reason people grouped in the Pre-CU days was to help newbies / new characters out in gaining XPs and fighting with the benefit and direct protection of a group. It really benefited new players since veterans were far more willing to help out a new player and more quickly bring them into the community before he even thinks of joining a guild.
AGREE
* Do not oversimplify the game. I did like the deep gameplay of the Pre-NGE systems. I did NOT like the simple gameplay of the NGE.
AGREE !
* Regarding vehicles... they need to be more durable to allow combat. Armor values, resistances, whatever. How rugged they are should also depend on the type. Star Wars example: Speederbikes aren't durable, you rely on speed. Lots of weapons can effectively damage them, provided you can hit them. Something like an AT-ST needs heavier weapons to bring down, not a baton, pistol, or rifle. Vehicles should be destroyable, but still be repairable (bigger, tougher vehicles cost more to repair). Let them have "condition" so that after being destroyed so many times, they're destroyed for good. Gotta go buy a new one from a crafter.
AGREE
* This is a bit vague... I'm not sure how to go around this, but there should be good reasons to have and not to have armor on. You also shouldn't be able to swim with armor on, especially metallic ones. The benefits and penalties of armor usage I have always felt shouldn't merely rest on "Class Certifications." No, your Archer can't wear Chainmail.
On this i have idea's, bounty hunters wear armour as do stormtroopers, but they are exceptions and its not what joe public moisture farmer would wear. I would like to see a huge array of craftable clothes (even hawtpants ) that with materials crafted by armoursmiths that can be augmented to serve as armour without ending up with the "composite clone" syndrome.
AS's would still make specific combat and all faction armour as well the faction armours.
you should be able to give characters defensive stats without them looking like robocop.
* While allowing player housing out in the wild, by all means, allow players to purchase a house, apartment, living space in a city. Imagine this with SWG... your well to do Merchant has a luxurious, expensive apartment at the top of one of the multistory towers in Coronet, Corellia. That whole floor is YOURS. But, go into the lower floors and you'll see smaller occupied apartments, each available for players to rent. Heck, SWG already has you pay maintenance for your own buildings, why not rent to live in a hub like Coronet? I believe this would've brought alot more life to SWG's cities. Some of those cities are simply spectacular. Guilds could've called a certain city "home" by renting out one of the larger buildings for their guild to use.
* If you're going to have opposing player factions, the factions need to feel different. The Empire in SWG shouldn't play the same as the Rebellion. It should not be a game of Red vs Blue.
AGREE
All in all a great post
The last of the SHDWS in Shadow Valley Cantina, Ahazi
One non negotiable requirement I have for any future MMO I play is for it to not have the dirty greedy hands of SOE or John Smedley near it.
Nor can it have amongst it's employees ANYONE on the NGE blacklist.
People such as Cao, Smed, Ward, Torres, Heliass, McDaniel, Blixtev, etc.
There were a great many aspects of the CU armor system that I didn't like, but the hindrances were pretty good. However I thought it was a mistake to allow you to mitigate them by skillbox because the system already provided mitigations. If your armor slows your running, then either burst-run or use a mount/vehicle. If your armor reduces your attack speed and accuracy, then be sure to use a weapon for which you have the best speed and accuracy skill mods. There should be a trade-off between offense and defense; early SWG had it but the uber doc buffs busted the balance.
I also approve of the notion of armored clothing (but armored hotpants are just plain silly!). For instance, many Tailor schematics would have armor slots equal to the number of hit locations that the garment covered, which accept identical armor segments. A Tailor could only add these resists (not experiment to increase them), and armorcloth would be AR0 while real armor was AR1. But armorcloth would have no hindrances. Armorcloth would decay from damage unlike normal clothing, and be fixed by clothing repair kits (at last, a good reason to use those!) until the resists wore out. Armorcloth resists would not stack with armor worn over them, but would apply if the armor provided no protection against a damage type. Some garments could only accept certain armor segments types, otherwise you would have everything stuffed with only max-layered Composite segments! Jackets might accept any sort of segment, while soft garments might only take armorweave.
Warmaker has captured my list of desirable traits in an MMO pretty well.
I'd like to stress a couple of things:
1. No levels. Levels are a cheat, they're lazy. They remind you that you're playing a game. They cut you off from other players who have different levels. Skills are the way to go.
2. Interdependency amongst the different players. SWG preCUhad this down with the need of combat types for crafters and entertainers, and the need of crafters for combat types for many raw materials needed to craft. Interdependency like this simulates RL, where we achieve more as a whole if we specialize as individuals.
3. Decay is needed because it reflects RL. All weapons "decay" IRL, even ranged ones...not literal decay as in "my rifle won't shoot because the barrel is falling off (although that can happen) but in you need another clip of ammo for it. Decay simulates that.
4. The need for combat downtime. One of the things that those who have not been in combat don't get is that it burns you out. You need to stop and recharge. This is why they have things called troop rotations. You can't keep it going forever. SWG preCU's Battle Fatigue system was an elegant simulation of this real world phenomenon.
All of these points, you'll note, have a common thread...they're part of an effort to simulate reality and remove artificiality...to make it less obvious you're playing a game. This was one of the things that SWG's design aimed to do. Admittedly, the execution fell short, but with the right leadership it could have gotten a lot closer to its potential in this aspect.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
For me?
I would say that the game needed :
A Immersive BACKGROUND. Not storyline, as a storyline means more like "themepark" game, where you and everyone else gets told the ame story, about how you're the uber hero that saves the kingdom/galaxy/fellowshipofthering... I'd rather create my own story, based on the background of the world, continuity/lore ya know...
Sandbox aproach to classes. A person isnt just a Paladin..he has learned more than that in his life.. He might even be a great cook, and be a champ with a sword and a bow.. He might even know how to haggle with traders and know how to mend a horseshoe. Just like Han Solo knew more than just smuggling. He was a soldier, officer, merchant, pilot, medic, "beastmaster", gigolo and what not... Not just a smuggler.
So in my game, a character is not bound by class, but by what he's able to learn to do.
Several/All playstyles has a important role in the game. No one gets left behind because some PvP monkey or Ninja looter thinks it's boring to have to go get healed by a player at a hospital or have to unwind at the local bar. Crafter players are the one providing the tools we use in the game, hunters provide hunted resources, miners provide mined resources, doctors heal, dancers help unwind, explorers open up new lands to mine/ harvest, combatants need combat buddies to slay the bear..(not the chicken).
Everyone needs everyone. Simple as that.
Insta travel would not be part of the game.
¨If ya travel someplace, you either do it by foot, vehicle or public transport... And the public transport would be like a bus/baloon/boat/etc that you actually board and travel in.. Not some "walk in and majic happends and yer halfway across the world".
World size would not be sacrificed and trivialized because some WoW'zer or bum want to beat the leech king 2 seconds after he logged in, despite that he made sure to log out on the other side of the world. The world is to be explored and felt. Leaving a city or outpost should be an adventure, not something as trivial as going from A to B.
No "End Be All" equipment. In my game, you wouldnt look at another player and say "He's a lvl 57 Rogue" or "He's a very skiled rogue". The players should be able to dress(within limits like a tshirt doesnt offer protection like a Class 200 ballistic vest) the way he wants his character to be..
I could go on but wont :P
I would like to see a game with Specialized crafting for vehicles and ships (be they water or space versions). As said befor it needs to be skill based and sandbox style.
Pre-Cu gameplay with a updated game engine (super nice graphics) cannon star wars timeline or set in one that would be expansive where it would fit that there could be a lot of jedi roaming around (unlike the NGE game.. wish they would turn on vader to kill all the NGE jedi...) massive pvp (no battle zones) 32 professions or more... atmospheric flight, ground vechicles, cap ship fights & craftable cap ships, EVE type universe (massive) dockable space stations (not copy paste of the noob station in SWG) unique crafting system, i could really go for the EVE skill training for Star Wars (which would mean investing a real time into the game to get a good toon to be able to have any skill you want) this would of course chase away the kiddies but who cares about them..
the option to unlock and create new types of weapons and armor and items, loot tables are fair and balanced, and finally star warsy content...
I know you cant tell me about what the IP is but Stargate is being made by someone already, so I would have to say if its popular and recent or new would be Star Trek, a new Star Wars MMO, or in this case a would-be great sci-fi MMO, Battlestar Galactica....
Remake Precu SWG but with a better game engine. Now there were some balance issues with Precu SWG. They can be fixed without too much problem, especially if you are making a game from the ground up. I would elucidate, but these things have already been elucidated upon, ad nauseum, by some brilliant folks around here who are passionate about SWG.
Take out the Star Wars aspect of it because the license makes you a slave to Lucas Arts. you should be a slave to your subs, not to some third party that you have to pay royalties too. And for God's sake, NO MORE FANTASY GAMES.
Then put in a decent back story so the game makes sense. Add free content every 2 to 3 months in large publishes. Make one or 2 large expansions a year.
pre cu without Jedi.
What about one based on Marc millers TRAVELLER rpg, with abit of zero g combat?
I will agree with this if they take out doc buffs as well.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Well, alot of it has to do with the IP rights and how much you are allowed to adapt them. Look at LotRO. They did a decent job of sticking to the books, but of course, to make an enjoyable game they had to bend the rules a bit. It's the same with any well known IP, but you just have to becareful how you do it. SW:G not only bent the rules, but made a pretzel out of them. Now if SOE had chosen a different timeline, then all those Jedi running around might make a bit more sense, but as we all know, nothing SOE does, for the most part, makes little if any sense at all.
What we're trying to do at the moment is show that we are able to make high quality games. Here's a screenie (I've placed this up on the forums here bfore) of one of the projects we are working on.
While it's still far from finsihed ( I'm struggling with building a really good AI) you can see we've made some good progress. And this image is from one of the free games we plan on releasing to our forum community. My business partner and I have a different vision on how a game development company should be run. And, yes, one of them is listening to our customers, because we provide a service.
As far as our MMO designs, yes, I want it to be alot like pre-CU. As to how far we can do that without being sued is another question. I do want to have atmospheric flight, space stations, capital ships, and we have a few unique ideas as well. I've spent the last 3 years alone, in my spare time, just designing how everything will work like the economy, skills, crafting, etc.
Ok, I've rambled on enough. Just a quick thanks again to everyone who has posted so far. Keep it up.
Personally I want to see a completely new Star Wars MMO with nothing to do with SWG. I want to see what a good game developer could do. If it was good it wouldn't matter to most people how alike it was to SWG to all the SWG vets or Star Wars fans in general.
many of the above stuff but the ability for the players to make there own events...
we had bases...and guilds took pride in defending theres and destroying there opponents...
loads of fun:)
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Fallen Earth should be good...
Sandbox, skill based, crafting, mounts (from horses to pickups), mounted combat....
Check it out. As an ex vet to others... and there are more at the game's forum.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.